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This is a bit of a spin-off from the earlier 'Ultimate Archer' thread, specifically in reference to a character build recommended by Sylvanite. I listened to his suggestions, played around with the build and this past weekend actually put it through its paces in a game and I have to say - great, great character. All in all a tremendous amount of fun and far and away the most effective archer and one of the most effective characters I've ever played.
I wanted to put the build out here with my own spin on it and invite Sylvanite and anyone else to critique, comment, question or copy the build and use it as inspiration to find a version of their own... I build characters almost constantly and this one has earned my highest recommendation for whatever that's worth. At low levels you make a more than competent archer with some potent buffing ability and things quickly scale up from there, until you're following up Quickened Selective Fireballs with Dazing Selective Fireballs to open combat and then hammering out 7 ranged attacks per round at 4d6+25 a pop... all while Flying around, Invisible and nearly impossible to target much less hit.
And this is hardly what I'd call an 'optimized' build. At 20th level you finish with a 17th level Fighter's BAB and a 17th level Wizard's casting ability - in fact the two continue apace from 11th level on.
I chose Human though I could certainly see an Elf working well here. We use a 25 point build in our campaigns and I included the Attributes as I managed them below:
Attributes:
Str - 10
Dex - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th)
Con - 14
Int - 16 (+1 at 12th, 16th and 20th)
Wis - 12
Cha - 8
The first level is a Fighter and since you'll only be taking a single level of it, most archetypes really aren't worth considering - Sylvanite recommended the Lore Warden and considering what you'll be doing with this character, it certainly sounds like the best option. After that you'll be taking 5 levels of Wizard. An Evocation specialist would certainly work for the Admixture ability alone and would have some role-play synergy with the Arcane Archer later on. Sylvanite recommended going with Transmutation, if only for the Dexterity bump you can glean from your first 5 levels and for the fact that the vast majority of your spells will likely be Transmutation spells. That also seems like the best way to go to me.
From there on out you'll be taking a mixture of Eldritch Knight (10) and Arcane Archer (4) levels. Below are the feats I've chosen and a few comments regarding them...
Feats:
1st level (F1) - Weapon Focus: Bow, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
2nd level (W1) - Scribe Scroll
3rd level (W2) - Precise Shot
4th level (W3)
5th level (W4) - Improved Initiative
6th level (W5) - Selective Spell
7th level (EK1) - Arcane Strike, Deadly Aim
8th level (EK2)
9th level (EK3) - Manyshot
10th level (AA1)
11th level (AA2) - Clustered Shots
12th level (AA3)
13th level (EK4) - Quicken Spell
14th level (EK5) - Improved Precise shot
15th level (EK6) - Dazing Spell
16th level (EK7)
17th level (EK8) - Spell Perfection: Fireball
18th level (EK9) - Critical Focus or ??
19th level (EK10) - Staggering Critical or ??
20th level (AA4)
Those last two feats could easily be filled with Spell Focus or Spell Penetration options, especially considering that Spell Perfection doubles the bonuses they give you. I highly recommend Spell Perfection and its pre-req's incidentally, especially when using it to couple a Dazing spell to an AoE attack that targets Reflex saves. I've seen it put to superb use with everything from Fireball to Fire Snake to Ball Lightning and it often makes for an ideal combat opener. With a ridiculously high Dexterity and Improved Initiative in this build, it will be a rare occasion when someone acts before you do.
I would have liked to have taken Spell Perfection at 15th and may still, bumping Clustered Shots. Normally Clustered Shots is a bit sacrosanct for Archers, but this character has a few ways available to him to get around Damage Resistance... since he plays in combat as an Archer first though, chances are I will keep it where it is.
Deadly Aim is going to require some judicious use at first as the character's initial accuracy will be lower than you might like, but through buffs it picks up quickly in the middle levels.
Selecting a crafting feat or two might work out well, especially if your GM allows/encourages crafting in his games. Sylvanite mentioned that he often crafted Bane arrows when he knew what types of foes he'd be facing. Also keep in mind that your bow will be your Bonded Object and you don't have to take any crafting feats in order to improve it, which will effectively give you your primary magical weapon at 'half-price' (crafting cost only).
A couple of milestones to keep in mind on the way - at 11th level you get the Arcane Archer's ability to 1d6 of fire, cold or lightning damage to each arrow and since similar abilities won't stack, that's a good argument for a Corrosive bow. At 19th, if you get there, you get the nifty ability of the Eldritch Knight to cast a spell as a swift action whenever he criticals... I hear Disintegrate is nice.
Spells:
Spell selection is of course up to you and those decisions make up a large part of this character's versatility, setting it ultimately apart from being 'just' an Archer. At 20th level, this is a general idea of what my standard spell selections might be:
(Caster level 17)
0 – Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
1st – Gravity Bow (x3), Shield (x3)
2nd – Cat’s Grace (x3), Mirror Image (x3)
3rd – Daylight, Dispel Magic (x2), Haste (x3)
4th – Quickened Selective Fireball (x4), Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser) x2
5th – Dazing Selective Fireball (x4), Overland Flight
6th – Disintegrate (x2), Greater Heroism (x3)
7th – Mage’s Sword (x2), Mass Fly, Teleport (Greater)
8th – Frightful Aspect, Stormbolts (x2)
9th – Etherealness, Winds of Vengeance
Obviously this is subject to change as you're leveling up and as circumstances dictate - some Quickened Truestrikes might not be a bad idea for when you're making that Manyshot'ed first attack and it needs to count. I like that you can use Stormbolts with the Arcane Archer's Imbue Arrow power and keep in mind that Overland Flight pretty much operates all day long. In fact, I'd generally try to keep your Bonded Item spell open to recast Overland Flight if someone manages to knock you out of the sky.
Whenever I know that combat is going to take place is when this character is clearly at his most optimal. The standard buff suite I would go with generally looks something like this:
Gravity Bow (1st)
Cat’s Grace (4th)
Haste (6th) for everyone!
Mirror Image or Greater Invisibility (9th) depending on whether foe can see invisible
Mage Armor (1st) and then Shield (9th) when decent Bracers of Armor become available
Overland Flight (12th)
At later levels other spells become available, like Greater Heroism, Globe of Invulnerability and even Winds of Vengeance and obviously you can use them as you wish. I choose spells with the intent of having three major encounters between extended rests and usually have more than enough left over for encounter 4 and 5 should they come.
At 12th level, with only the standard buffs in place and having selected the following equipment: +4 Keen Corrosive Longbow (Bonded Object, self-enhanced), Bracers of Armor +5, Ring of Protection +3, Ring of Feather Falling, Cloak of Resistance +3, Amulet of Natural Armor +3 ...the character has an AC of 34 (in addition to the advantages provided by Greater Invisibility and Flying), has a full attack action of +18 (x2)/+18/+18/+13 and is dealing 2d6(gravity bow)+1d6(acid)+1d6(elemental)+15 damage per shot within 'point blank' range using Deadly Aim. Figure +4 to attacks and -8 damage if you don't.
As I said, I thought this was too good of a character idea not to make a thread about it, both in terms of raw effectiveness and how much fun it is to play. Credit Sylvanite for waking me up to this build and introducing me to a character I'm going to get a tremendous amount of mileage out of. I'd be very interested in hearing thoughts from other players with regards to optimizing or in case I've overlooked something.
If I were able to play an Eldritch Knight Archer starting at higher level (due to the immense feat costs and tie in to the capstone), I'd do a heavy crossbow with crossbow master, for the crit threat range of 17-20 w/ Improved Crit or Keen. Much more synergistic with the Spell Critical capstone.
If you can deal with the code of conduct, I think Divine Hunter Paladin 1 is better than Fighter 1 for this. You get Precise Shot bonus feat, better will save, at will detect evil, and 1/day you can ignore an evil foe's DR for an entire fight. Compared to Fighter giving you heavy armor and the option to spend the bonus feat on something other than Precise Shot as its only real advantages.
I've selected the 'Magical Knack' trait for him - what exactly does that affect? I know you don't get additional spells, but would it affect thigns like duration and damage dice?
Magical Knack
Benefit: Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn’t increase your caster level higher than your current Hit Dice.
Might need to make the first level Wizard to grab this though.
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I appreciate the citations and credit given, but I've had tons of help over the span of months in terms of people on these boards helping refine issues with this build (there's a lot of moving parts, so it's easy to fiddle with!) Most importantly though, I'm glad someone's having fun with my favorite style of character!
I see you decided to go more hybrid. I usually run this as more of an Archer first, out of combat caster for versatility and awesomeness second. In fact, in my feat progressions I almost never pick up a Metamagic feat until Quicken Spell wayyyyy later on in the build. As you mentioned, I prefer to Craft, if given the chance, as that boosts my own power considerably AND the whole group's power.
-I prefer using Greater Magic Weapon to slowly up the enhancement on my bow while devoting my money to stacking abilities on instead of enhancement bonuses. At twelfth level my bow (if I had a +6 base bow as you do) has me at a +3 Corrosive Holy Seeking Electric Longbow. This nets me an additional +2 worth of enhancements over yours at a loss of only 1 attack bonus and one damage (which really isn't a loss considering what I gain). You can, of course, play with which enhancements you prefer. I like Holy as it doesn't get resisted, though it is fairly "all or nothing". Most campaigns I play in we fight evil, though, so it is what it is. Holy also overcomes alignment based DR on some big ol baddies. In our campaigns, Seeking nullifies Mirror Image, and considering one big con of this build is that it doesn't get Improved Precise Shot as early as other archers, I like the other things the Seeking enhancement gets me, too.
-Weapon Blanch NEEDS to be mentioned when talking about archer builds. Get to know it. Use it. You need to have arrows ready for ANYTHING you encounter, like a Batman style character. A couple real adamantine arrows to break things from a distance, blunt arrows for skeletons and such, silver blanch'd arrows, adamantine blanch'd arrows for constructs and stoneskin. Also, use cold iron as your base arrows as it costs next to nothing and is big for overcoming DR. With all this stuff, Clustered Shots becomes more optional as a feat, too.
-Don't bother with the Ring of Feather Falling, save up for a ring of counterspells to help protect against dispel magic instead.
-Armor isn't going to be your best defense. Just get a lesser rod of extend, use it on Mage Armor, and use all the money you dropped on +5 bracers of armor toward other things, such as a glove of storing (to protect from sunder etc.), Pearls of Power for common low level buffs of shorter duration (gravity bow, shield, etc.), Handy Haversack (super important with all the arrows you need to carry as you fire so many per round). Same thing goes with the Amulet of Natural Armor. If you are under attack, use Mirror Image or Invisibility of some kind. Generally you see this coming, as an archer you're not front-line. This leads to being a super glass-cannon, but it never really came back to bite me! Boots of Haste are a must. Don't waste actions casting Haste. Everyone who does full attacks should have these as soon as possible (this is where crafting also helps). Don't forget about scrolls...they GREATLY increase your out of combat versatility.
-Your buff spell list needs work. Darkvision is important as a human, and last 1 hour/level as a 2nd level spell. Cat's Grace isn't needed with Dex items, which you should rely on. Once you get Dex items, drop your Transmutation boost into Con. You're missing regular Heroism, which is super, super important and lasts a long time. Stoneskin is another awesome buff later on. Flame Arrows is a big boost to damage with a great duration (and technically stacks with even the Flaming weapon enhancement). Magic Circle vs. Evil is also a great buff, and can replace some of the money spent on a Ring of Protection (as well as protects against mind control!).
-The Fireball stuff: Your DC isn't going to be hugely high, the damage is capped at an average of 35, and fire resistance is really common at high levels. Why not spend the swift action on Arcane Strike to do +5 damage per arrow? If you hit 4 times (fairly common as you get 4 attacks at your highest, counting manyshot, haste, rapid shot) you do 20 damage...no save...no resistance. Any other attacks just make it more worthwhile. Plus, it opens up those spellslots. With the volume of attacks you make, it's important to remember that every 1 point of damage you add to attacks can actually be 4 or 5 points of damage. For this reason, take every little point you can. Weapon Specialization is 2 per attack. Greater Bracers of Archery are awesome, and another 1 per attack. Getting 14 in Str instead of 16 in Int is another 2 damage per attack. That's an easy 5 damage per attack, which can actually end up being 25 more damage in a round. That matters fairly often.
-You eventually qualify for greater weapon focus, and are already on the lower BAB than many archer builds. I'd scratch and claw for any +1 I could get at all.
Whew. All that said, I like that you've put your own spin on it. It's definitely more war-wizardish and blasty. I normally make necromancy and evocation my opposed schools as they have the fewest buffs I feel I really need (I do miss False Life, though later on in the build I would often spend two 4th level slots to be able to cast Greater False Life.)
Last bit of advice: Don't rely on minute buffs. They're gravy if you have time to get them up, but many times you'll be fighting without them unless you KNOW your DM basically just does dungeon crawls. Rods of Extend and 10 min./level or hour/level spells are hugely important to this concept.
Magical Knack: Just improves your Caster Level, so things like damage dice and duration. Doesn't give more spellslots or THAT kind of advancement. That said, you're down 3 CLs by 20th, so an orange ioun stone is needed if the 20th caster level means anything to you (it does for me since I use Arcane Strike every round and Greater Magic Weapon). It's another reason why I hold off so long on Arcane Archer levels, since until you take that first level in AA, you're of CL equal to your level thanks to Magical Knack.
Edit: One last, strange note. I played this character through Rise of the Runelords. Here there may be something spoilery, so I will block it off:
Edit 2: One last other note. If you're allowed to use Emergency Force Sphere in your game (from the Cheliax supplement), it's one of the most hilarious (and one of the few decent) uses of Imbue Arrow. Just aim it at the feet of someone you want to "bubble" out of a fight for a good few rounds. It's also pretty nifty to have around just in case.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/emergency-force-sphere
I really like your character build/idea and have been searching for something like this that i will try soon (hopefully i wont die too quickly). I'm preparing for a good ole dungeon crawl (rappan athuk) but would like to try a paladin/sorc then get into the eldritch knight levels and arcane archer. the trouble is i haven't made a pathfinder character before (1 PFS cleric of erastil at level 3).
I'm using a created race with +2 dex/Cha and -2 str. could you help me tweak your build into my concept of a holy eldritch archer? no stats have been rolled yet, and i can provide answers for race traits. we start at level 2.
This is a bit of a spin-off from the earlier 'Ultimate Archer' thread, specifically in reference to a character build recommended by Sylvanite. I listened to his suggestions, played around with the build and this past weekend actually put it through its paces in a game and I have to say - great, great character. All in all a tremendous amount of fun and far and away the most effective archer and one of the most effective characters I've ever played.
I wanted to put the build out here with my own spin on it and invite Sylvanite and anyone else to critique, comment, question or copy the build and use it as inspiration to find a version of their own... I build characters almost constantly and this one has earned my highest recommendation for whatever that's worth. At low levels you make a more than competent archer with some potent buffing ability and things quickly scale up from there, until you're following up Quickened Selective Fireballs with Dazing Selective Fireballs to open combat and then hammering out 7 ranged attacks per round at 4d6+25 a pop... all while Flying around, Invisible and nearly impossible to target much less hit.
And this is hardly what I'd call an 'optimized' build. At 20th level you finish with a 17th level Fighter's BAB and a 17th level Wizard's casting ability - in fact the two continue apace from 11th level on.
I chose Human though I could certainly see an Elf working well here. We use a 25 point build in our campaigns and I included the Attributes as I managed them below:
Attributes:
Str - 10
Dex - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th)
Con - 14
Int - 16 (+1 at 12th, 16th and 20th)
Wis - 12
Cha - 8The first level is a Fighter and since you'll only be taking a single level of it, most archetypes really aren't worth considering - Sylvanite recommended the Lore Warden and considering what you'll be doing with this character, it certainly sounds like the best option. After that you'll be taking 5 levels of Wizard. An Evocation specialist would...
A quick question on this build:
Would you be using spellstrike as well as spell combat? Combining the two would allow you to get an extra attack off, but wouldn't it restrict you to only magus spells?In that case are you only casting 1 spell (more if quickened) and shooting 1 arrow?
If that is true then would it be better for you to focus on spells that have many rays (looking at either magic missile early, battering blast/ray spells later)
Thanks for the advice
Check the dates Donovan. Wiggz posted this eight years ago and hasn't posted on paizo.com this year.
Check the dates Donovan. Wiggz posted this eight years ago and hasn't posted on paizo.com this year.
Sorry... this is my first time posting on this website.
Is it taboo to bring old threads along with your question?I raised thread, as it were, so that anyone looking would know exactly what I was looking to do, and where my confusion arose.
If I did do something wrong, how can I do it better next time?
Thanks,
D
Post your own thread, or at least make it clear you're addressing all and sundry?
Anyway Wiggz's plan seems to involve a fighter / wizard / eldritch knight / arcane archer, and I think the eldritch archer magus archetype was released after 2012 anyway. The character does not have spell combat or spellstrike.
I suggest go arcanist instead of wizard since you can get:
dimensional slide: it helps to put you in better position without losing your full attack.
Arcane weapon: allow to increase the +1 in weapon or to change/apply enchantment in the weapon.
Quick study: help you to change a spell in 1 round instead of 5 min that the wizard need.
Spell tinkerer: help you to increase or decrease spell duration.
I suggest go arcanist instead of wizard since you can get:
dimensional slide: it helps to put you in better position without losing your full attack.
Arcane weapon: allow to increase the +1 in weapon or to change/apply enchantment in the weapon.
Quick study: help you to change a spell in 1 round instead of 5 min that the wizard need.
Spell tinkerer: help you to increase or decrease spell duration.
Do the arcanist spells work for spell combat and spellstrike though?
It calls out magus spellsor do I just use the arcanist spells for CC and Such and then use SS and SC for magus spells?
Thanks,
D
The build above doesn't have any magus levels and can't use SC or SS, whether it replaces the wizard levels with arcanist levels or not.
I think I see the problem.
ARCANE ARCHER - a Prestige class from the core rulebook that is designed to combine the powers of the Wizard and the Fighter (or something similar) and focuses on augmenting a bow with magic.
ELDRITCH ARCHER - a Magus archetype that changes the focus from one-handed weapons to ranged weapons.
Similar names and similar themes, but different classes.
Note that you still might want to look at taking 2-3 levels in arcane archer with an eldritch archer magus (magus 8 or 9/arcane archer 2 or 3/magus +X). Imbue Arrow allows you to have an area effect spell go off in addition to arrow damage, while Ranged Spellstrike only applies to ranged touch spells (and touch spells with Reach Spellstrike/Distant Spellstrike). Also, Enhance Arrows (Elemental) is independent of using your arcane pool to enhance your bow (not a "must have" with how common elemental resistances are, but not bad since you can select the energy type at the start of each day).
One small item issue. Keen only works for melee weapons. You may want to work improved critical into your build.