Humans and darkvision / lowlight vision as feat prerequ.

[JustynThyme]

@Hayato Ken: Aasimars with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait are outsider (native) AND humanoid (human), and they have darkvision as a racial trait. I'm bringing a Scion of Humanity Aasimar ninja into a Pathfinder game this weekend. You can choose any of the variant heritages without taking a feat, thus customizing your ability score bonuses (they get +2 to TWO, and no penalty) and skill bonuses, pass as human without using the Disguise skill (since they are *actually* humans, by creature type), take human favored class bonuses, racial archetypes, you name it. They ARE human, just as much as they are Aasimar. Problem solved.

Okay, they don't get the bonus feat and the extra skill rank, but they gain so much more than humans can have. All of the options humans have available, plus all of the options Aasimars have. If you want to add another humanoid race's options to the mix, add in Racial Heritage. You then get to add any and all feats, racial archetypes, and favored class options from that race, too.

Edit: I just found a way to gain low-light vision. The Blood of Dragons trait gives a choice of benefits, one of which is low-light vision. Any race can take this. It just signifies that you have dragon blood somewhere in your ancestry, and it manifests in you. Since it's a Race trait, I would argue that it adds it to your character as a racial trait.

[Blakmane]

JustynThyme wrote:

Since it's a Race trait, I would argue that it adds it to your character as a racial trait.

As has been discussed further up in the thread, a race trait is NOT a racial trait - allowing them to intermingle creates a whole bunch of unpleasant rules side-effects, like the afformentioned ability for any race to pick up a free feat via one of their traits.

Unfortunately, the prerequisite for the feat chain in question specifically requires a racial trait, not a race trait.

Silly distinction I know, but it's important because it seems this is being used for a guide and thus must maintain RAW consistency.

[JustynThyme]

Blakmane wrote:

As has been discussed further up in the thread, a race trait is NOT a racial trait - allowing them to intermingle creates a whole bunch of unpleasant rules side-effects, like the afformentioned ability for any race to pick up a free feat via one of their traits.

Unfortunately, the prerequisite for the feat chain in question specifically requires a racial trait, not a race trait.

Silly distinction I know, but it's important because it seems this is being used for a guide and thus must maintain RAW consistency.

I'm aware that a race trait isn't a racial trait. I'm not saying that it is. And it's not a silly distinction, it's a significant one. What I'm saying is that the low-light vision is granted by a trait that is altering your race (however slightly), and thus it could be argued that the ability could be considered racial. I'd say it would be up to your GM on that point. But the Aasimar Scion of Humanity definitely solves the problem. Whether either option is PFS legal or not, I can't say.

[Rerednaw]

So..
Int 13, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Bluff 3 ranks, darkvision or low-light vision racial trait to obtain Moonlight Stalker for +2/+2?

Here's a suggestion, instead of that heavy investment, maybe look into other ways to pick up that damage/to hit bonus?

[Fourshadow]

It's a trait and it has to do with race: ergo, a racial trait. I know of no GM who would nix that tiny distinction. I mean this would be the nit-pickiest nit to pick I have ever seen.
Blood of Dragons should work.

[Draudroh]

So technically speaking based off RAW, if you take word for word the description written on the feats you can get "darkvision 90ft" on a human by getting 2 feats but if you do it by RAI it can be ruled a "No" by the GM since it easy to argue it doesn't make sense.

RACIAL HERITAGE
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

GLOOM SIGHT
Prerequisite: Fetchling.
Benefit: You gain darkvision 90 ft., but gain the light sensitivity weakness.

So you get Racial Heritage and choose Fetchling as your other race and then get Gloom Sight. Racial Heritage allows you to take any feat that is allowed for the secondary race as long as you meet the prerequisites and Gloom Sight doesn't list darkvision as a prerequisite unlike how other racial feats for darkvision does. For example, the racial feat for Tieflings - Fiend Sight:

FIEND SIGHT
Prerequisites: Darkvision 60 ft., tiefling.
Benefit: You gain low-light vision and your darkvision improves to 120 ft.
Special: You can take this feat twice. When you take it a second time, you gain the see in darkness universal monster ability.

That feat specially states you need Darkvision but like I said that is just going based off the exact description that are written in the feats but obviously most GMs would probably rule it as a "No" unless it is something that happens during your campaign with your character that triggers your racial darkvision to manifests. And even so they would probably only allow you to get like 30ft or 60ft darkvision.

[Sah]

Fourshadow wrote:

It's a trait and it has to do with race: ergo, a racial trait. I know of no GM who would nix that tiny distinction. I mean this would be the nit-pickiest nit to pick I have ever seen.

Blood of Dragons should work.

Except they are entirely different. Let's change the names, We have a series of elephants you get for choosing a race, and there is a list of seals you can choose from. Some of the seals are elephant seals, they are not elephants, they just have a similar name.

[ImmortaliseMe]

human can take adopted trait - that grants you a racial trait (only racial trait) from your adopted family. Racial trait blood of dragons will give you low-light vision as one possible option. Now your human (adopted by dragon blooded family) has low light vision

[Protoman]

ImmortaliseMe wrote:

human can take adopted trait - that grants you a racial trait (only racial trait) from your adopted family. Racial trait blood of dragons will give you low-light vision as one possible option. Now your human (adopted by dragon blooded family) has low light vision

1) Really old thread, how did you even come across this topic? Searched low-light/darkvision without checking last date?

2) Adopted doesn't get you access to another race's racial traits like low-light vision or darkvision, it gives one access to another race's race category of traits by spending a social trait. Blood of Dragons would count as a Race Trait.

[lemeres]

ImmortaliseMe wrote:

human can take adopted trait - that grants you a racial trait (only racial trait) from your adopted family. Racial trait blood of dragons will give you low-light vision as one possible option. Now your human (adopted by dragon blooded family) has low light vision

Did you need any particular race for blood of dragons? It seemed like a general "this is in your body, and affects you life" thing, so it got shoved under race traits but could be used for anyone.

So I am unsure if you need adopted cheese to grab that trait. And if you did... boo on you, and your catfolk trained in the art of having foot long teeth by halforcs.

[Protoman]

lemeres wrote:

ImmortaliseMe wrote:

human can take adopted trait - that grants you a racial trait (only racial trait) from your adopted family. Racial trait blood of dragons will give you low-light vision as one possible option. Now your human (adopted by dragon blooded family) has low light vision

Did you need any particular race for blood of dragons? It seemed like a general "this is in your body, and affects you life" thing, so it got shoved under race traits but could be used for anyone.

So I am unsure if you need adopted cheese to grab that trait. And if you did... boo on you, and your catfolk trained in the art of having foot long teeth by halforcs.

From Ultimate Campaign, Bloodline Race Traits: "Members of any race can select one of these traits, as they represent distant bloodlines intermixed with or corrupting those your race."

And Blood of Dragons falls under the Bloodline Race Traits.

[lemeres]

Protoman wrote:

From Ultimate Campaign, Bloodline Race Traits: "Members of any race can select one of these traits, as they represent distant bloodlines intermixed with or corrupting those your race."

And Blood of Dragons falls under the Bloodline Race Traits.

Yeah, thought it was something like that, but I was just making sure this wasn't some kobold trait or something.

So yeah, just take that if you need lowlight vision. No need to be adopted.

[john mclaughlin 11]

theres a trait for human lowlight vision 10 feet in a player book

[Bearserk]

Isn't there something with low-light vision and fey-magic for the core-races in Heroes Of The Wild?!

[Entryhazard]

Bearserk wrote:

Isn't there something with low-light vision and fey-magic for the core-races in Heroes Of The Wild?!

Yes, Humans with Fey Magic instead of Skilled gain Low Light Vision

[Torbyne]

two levels of vigilante can get any race 60' of low light and darkvision.

[ImmortaliseMe]

Adopted
You were adopted and raised by someone not of your race, and raised in a society not your own.
As a result, you picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents' race.

if that means race trait from the family, then a human adopted by dwarves can have the race trait of dark vision.

but since the race trait on the adopted page actually links to the list of race traits where blood of dragons is listed.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits

[Protoman]

ImmortaliseMe wrote:

Adopted

You were adopted and raised by someone not of your race, and raised in a society not your own.
As a result, you picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents' race.

if that means race trait from the family, then a human adopted by dwarves can have the race trait of dark vision.

but since the race trait on the adopted page actually links to the list of race traits where blood of dragons is listed.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits

Darkvision is a racial trait of dwarves, which you can see in the race details

Race Traits is a category of traits.

Picking up the Social Trait "Adopted" allows one to pick up another race's Race Trait, not another race's Racial Trait, like a dwarf's Hatred or Stonecunning racial trait.