Greatest 0 level spell


Advice

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Grand Lodge

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Title says it all. From all classes, what is the best?


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Prestidigitation, near unlimited uses, lots of fun too.

Uses


+1 prestidigitation. its limits are your imagination.


I would have to go with Detect Magic. While Prestidigitation has a lot of uses they are mostly minor. Detect Magic is almost required for the game and can be used for more important things. For example if you do not have a rogue to detect magic traps it works almost as well. Also useful for identifying magic items.


From a "greatest asset to a character's capabilities" standpoint, probably Detect Magic. For flavor, I actually really like Ray of Frost/Acid Splash, because for most magical characters it seems more fitting that their basic combat action is using a spell, not pulling out a crossbow.

Grand Lodge

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Summon instrument always sounded like a free weapon spell.


Acid Splash has helped more parties I've run games for than I'd care to count. It's amazing how often groups I've seen have ended up with no way of getting around regeneration except for a cantrip.

Grand Lodge

Scoop sounds like it would be rather useful.


Ghost sound would get my vote for second after prestidigitation, again creativity is what makes it such an amazing spell.


Detect Magic, IMHO.

Sovereign Court

Acid splash is useful when you need to destroy objects. It's not necessarily a first choice but take it when you can.

thanks,

Kodger

Grand Lodge

Mending and Sift seem useful.


Prestigitation, it's not a spell, it's a class ability
but it would be harder to play the game without detect magic.

Grand Lodge

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/prestidigitation
That looks like a spell to me.

Sczarni

Ghost sound!


First:

Prestidigitation:
- I used it to give a poison vial to a guard. (Changed taste, color and odor of the drink).
- Tied guards shoes
- Create small form from my kiseru (smoking pipe)
- Clean a freshly used weapons
- Quickly gather coins from a torn purse

Second:

Ghost sound:
- Distract guards
- Create a false haunted house
- Scare commoners

Third:

Mage Hand:
- Just drop a contact poison drenched tissue on ennemies
- Take keys from a sleeping guard's belt without getting caught
- Steal obiviously trapped objects without getting hurt

Fourth:

Open/Close
- Open unlocked chest
- Open unlocked door
- Close door at the face of pursuing guard
- Open a full purse (and collect coins with prestidigitation)
- Open the bag full of potion (and alchemist fire) as the enemy alchemist try to flee.
- Close a cure light wound potion that the guard just opened

Fifth

Detect Magic and Dancing Light

- Detect magic trap
- Detect magic object
or
- Create a haunted house
- Scare commoners
- Distract guards as they attack false will-o'-wisp

Sixth

If I expect combat, I prepare Ray of Frost.

Yes, I'm playing a Kitsune Arcane Trickster named Grey Fox.

Grand Lodge

Summon instrument to get a string bass, smack foe.

Liberty's Edge

Create Water can be a useful Orison, IMO. When used at the right time & place, it can break perception checks (and modules!).


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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Summon instrument to get a string bass, smack foe.

For added effect you'd need to shout out "KABONG!" after.


I'd also vote for Prestidigitation. In the hands of a creative/imaginative caster it can be extremely OP.

Grand Lodge

Rough and Ready trait allows you to use them without penalty as weapons.


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Magic Missile!

...Specifically, a Merciful Magic Missile if you've taken Magical Lineage (Magic Missile)...

:)

Grand Lodge

I was looking to see what would be good as a at will spell-like ability.


I also like that because of the duration, you can theoretically have just tons of summoned instruments at once. Like, if you just need a pile of whatever for some reason. You have have up to ten at a time per character level.


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There are specific rules to prevent you from using the Mount spell as a method of areal bombardment. There are no such rules for summon instrument that I can see.

Fly high above a city on a phantom steed summoning Tubas? Looks perfectly legitimate. It's a real pity it can't provide pianos though. That would be far more appropriate to drop from the sky.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Prestidigitation, of course. Since these are still effectively the middle ages, the ability to keep clean without trouble is definitely one of the most importants benefits of playing an arcane caster with access to this cantrip.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Title says it all. From all classes, what is the best?

Guidance is huge. Pale green prism ioun stone is 30k gold, until then guidance works wonders and scales with the target.

Message is great until telepathic bond becomes cheap (or permanent) which takes a long time to happen.

Dancing lights is awesome.

Detect magic is nice, but normally over-covered in parties. It also suffers from permanent arcane sight overshadowing it which happens far sooner than telepathic bond out-dating message.

Personally in the late, late game I'd say dancing lights, while there can be 'permanent dancing lights' it doesn't move with you. The spell is a free action to direct which means even in the late game it can help you track down a target.

-James


@blackbloodtroll, sorry, I meant it as a statement that prestigitation was way more vast than any spell, even wish got concrete limitation. Prestigitation is what every cool wizard does, gandalfs pipesmoke boat for example or pulling flags out of the hat.
I didn't mean it literally of course it's a spell, but without it a wizard would not be the wizard.


Second vote for guidance. If my character has that spell on its spell list, it is prepared/known. It's not as flashy as prestidigitation (which no wizard should be without, so I love the Varisian Trifler trait that gives it three times per day), but it's dependable and useful. When a low-level caster has nothing else left to do, can't really use his crossbow because everybody's in melee, it's half an aid another risk free to slap on the meat shield in front of you.


My personal favorite is mage hand. Prestidigitation and detect magic are close.


My issue with all these "tricksy" uses is that...well...you're still right next to the guy clearly speaking arcane formulations. That's what kills Ghost Sound for me, theoretically. You can't use it sneakily without also shouting out arcane incantations, which kinda ruins the use of it.

That's why the rogue talent Minor Magic is awesome. Sp means no verbal components.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Detect magic is so useful it's almost a spell tax. Guidance is right behind it. Prestidigitation and mage hand are also super useful.


I love prestidigitation and mage hand too, but my GM will not allow either of them to be used to disguise poison or otherwise cause harm due to the wording of the spells which implies the spells are not intended to do harm. My own reading is not as restrictive as his, but I can see his point. Even with those limitations, they are still great spells.

Guidance is always handy, although it doesn't stack with a few items. Most of my casters automatically use guidance on any craft check.

Read and detect magic are boring but essential.

Daze is highly underutilized at low levels.

I like dancing lights and ghost sound almost as much as prestidigitation and mage hand. Two casters cooperating with dancing lights and ghost sound can create very convincing illusions.

Mending is critial if your GM likes to play equipment attrition games.

Create water can be used in very creative ways.

It's too hard to pick a favorite. There are several really excellent ones.

However, it is very rare that a caster of mine doesn't have detect magic and guidance at the ready.


If you have a magus you can use the merciful spell abuse with shocking grasp to get unlimited spellstrikes.

Liberty's Edge

I love Guidance and Mage Hand. Guidance is excellent for adding a +1 to any skill check. and Mage Hand has a lot of utility, with a little used "detect magic" feature.

Slight Derail

doctor_wu wrote:
If you have a magus you can use the merciful spell abuse with shocking grasp to get unlimited spellstrikes.

That's where a GM has to nip that in the bud. Cantrips are a special class of spells that are balanced for unlimited use. The 1 hit point heal was removed for this specific reason. As much as i like to keep strict to RAW, I personally don't allow any feats or traits that lower the spell level to go below 1.


Detect Magic, Guidance and Dancing Lights all get a lot of use when I play a spellcaster.


The best level 0 spell has to be detect magic, especially since cantrips/orisons are at-will in PFRPG (every time you enter a room, you can cast it).

The most interesting is probably spark from the APG. Sure, it can only target a small item, but you can use it to set one leaf in a pile of dry leaves on fire... provided your GM agrees that it can spread normally, it can be used quite creatively.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I didn't realize so many DMs had such a loose ruling on Prestidigitation. Tying someone's shoes together? Sorry, not in games I run.

In a low-level game a few weeks ago, I found that purify food and water was a godsend when trying to save a few gold.

But I'd have to say Detect Magic is the obvious choice with Guidance being a distant second.


What Riggler said is pretty much why Prestidigitation isn't high on my list. It sounded cool, but all the GMs I've known restrict it to doing only the things listed in the spell description, specifically:

- Slowly lift 1 pound of material.
- Color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round.
- Chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material.
- Create small objects, but they look crude and artificial.

And they generally even stack limitations on that by allowing people will saves to realize something has been affected by prestidigitation. So it's not really a useful spell in most games I've seen. Even if you're creative, there's not much you can do that's useful with just those effects.

Liberty's Edge

Detect magic, easily.

It's like automatically succeeding on a search check to find treasure that isn't adequately shielded. It also detects most illusions, can detect some traps, and allows for identification of magic items.

Plus, it's useful ALL the time, even when there's no magic! Detecting no magic is a pretty reliable way to say there ISN'T any magic, and the absence of magic is important information. Walking down a hall without detecting any magic despite detect magic being up is different than walking down a hall blind to magical auras.

It's sufficiently powerful to where it makes me lament, to a certain extent, cantrips being infinite use spells.


Atarlost wrote:

There are specific rules to prevent you from using the Mount spell as a method of areal bombardment. There are no such rules for summon instrument that I can see.

Fly high above a city on a phantom steed summoning Tubas? Looks perfectly legitimate. It's a real pity it can't provide pianos though. That would be far more appropriate to drop from the sky.

Don't forget the Monk of the Empty Hand who uses Summon Instrument for improvised weapons...


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I once was in a game (3.5) that had six players all but the bard was at neg. hp and the bard had only mage hand ( he got disarmed) the BBEG had only a few hp left so the bard said " I want to grab his ball sack with my mage hand and squize" dm said that would require an attack roll so he rolls a nat. 20 followed by another nat. 20. Bard saves the day with a mage hand.


5 pounds of pressure to the ball sack is a, "Momma!" moment.


With 2 nat. 20s the thing burst!


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Title says it all. From all classes, what is the best?

Great thread.

As long as we have so many Cantrip affectianado's here, I figure its a good time to ask a question that's been bugging me - Light vs. Dancing Lights.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Light causes an object to give off light as a torch, an object you would then presumably have to hold somehow... whereas Dancing Lights creates 4 lights that each give off as much light as a torch, and can be independantly directed. Seems like kind of a no-brainer to me, but am I reading the Cantrip correctly?


Nope, it's correct, but Light lasts a lot longer. Also, Light on a pebble, Mage Hand for fake Ioun Stone. I've used that combination to distract people while we came up from the flank. Put light stone in a bad, made hand it over to an area, pull out stone, suddenly people are facing the wrong direction.

Sometimes it comes down to action economy. You're underground, and you use cantrips for light source. In combat, Dancing Lights lasts 1 minute, or 10 rounds, where as Light lasts 10 minutes per level, or 100 rounds at first level. In combat, I'll take Light, outside of combat, Dancing Lights makes a good method of sending a light farther down a tunnel to see what is there.


You can put light on stuff, like an arrow, and extend it.s range. personally I'm a much bigger fan of Dancing lignts and never bother with light.

Silver Crusade

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I'm surprised Stabilize hasn't been mentioned. It's not as useful as Detect Magic, but they're both on my cleric's "always prepared" list, usually with Guidance and Read Magic.

Funny story - my group went on a long boat journey not too long ago, and the DM described the run down ship, grimy crew, lousy food, etc so well that I decided my somewhat sheltered, big city cleric would be casting Purify Food and Drink at every meal for the entire group. It turns out we missed out on a whole subplot of the published adventure, because the chef really was trying to poison us!


Fromper wrote:

I'm surprised Stabilize hasn't been mentioned. It's not as useful as Detect Magic, but they're both on my cleric's "always prepared" list, usually with Guidance and Read Magic.

Funny story - my group went on a long boat journey not too long ago, and the DM described the run down ship, grimy crew, lousy food, etc so well that I decided my somewhat sheltered, big city cleric would be casting Purify Food and Drink at every meal for the entire group. It turns out we missed out on a whole subplot of the published adventure, because the chef really was trying to poison us!

Bet that annoyed the crap out of him. lol


Tels wrote:

Nope, it's correct, but Light lasts a lot longer. Also, Light on a pebble, Mage Hand for fake Ioun Stone. I've used that combination to distract people while we came up from the flank. Put light stone in a bad, made hand it over to an area, pull out stone, suddenly people are facing the wrong direction.

Sometimes it comes down to action economy. You're underground, and you use cantrips for light source. In combat, Dancing Lights lasts 1 minute, or 10 rounds, where as Light lasts 10 minutes per level, or 100 rounds at first level. In combat, I'll take Light, outside of combat, Dancing Lights makes a good method of sending a light farther down a tunnel to see what is there.

I suppose I'm also making the mistake of lumping Cantrips in with Osirons... big difference if you have to pick one or the other to be able to do at will vs. 3-4 times a day.

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