One way to handle it is to have them set up a system whereby if you want a particular item from the loot, everybody else gets a commensurate share of the gold profit. So, say you get 2000 gp and a Cloak of Resistance +1 to split between 3 players, then one gets the cloak, and the others get 1000 gp apiece. Rolling off is as good an idea as any to determine who gets the cloak, but this way, the other guys can go out and get their own.
My groups don't often squabble about putting the item where it would fit best. Letting the rogue have the Lens of Perception, for instance, when it can be your life or death, is a very good plan.
Gamer's Guide to Pathfinder put out a nice podcast on Treasure if you care to listen to it:
http://35privatesanctuary.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=categor y&id=53&Itemid=65
@Karek - agreed on the system. It's a bit accountant-ish but it makes sure that everyone gets gold to spend or magic items they want.
@Talon - I think that the GM should get involved in loot-distribution if the PCs bickering over loot is ruining the atmosphere at the table. This involvement shouldn't a commandment from the GM but rather a voice of reason from an experienced gamer.
Each group will handle this differently, but as a GM most of the time I have always let the party be in total control of treasure distribution. You can make some suggestions to them but let them know that HOW it is divided (and/or sold) is totally in their hands ... This encourages role play which is what the game should be about.... As Talon so nicely said in his first few words.
As for suggestions, most of my groups have someone who keeps track of what they find as a group, and usually reads off all unique or magical items .. having a roll-off (maybe d20) if more than one wants something. Then they sell all else and split the money.
Sometimes they calculate what they would get if they sold everything and use that for a basis of what everyone should get, so if you choose to pick and item it is deducted from your share, but it is not unusual to have one item that is more valuable than an individual share, so an alternative as Karek suggested is a good one, where one person gets the big item, and the rest is divided evenly among the others.
If the Cleric in question keeps veering off, let him. (Good choice by you to not award him xp if he avoids a scenario entirely, yet sometimes it can lead to him getting the only xp for surviving a trap while the rest of the party gets xp for a battle.) His separation choices will quickly catch up with him as they deal with more powerful foes and traps ... not only that, but the party will take note, and again roleplay will likely lead to a change of approach for the cleric, or a newly rolled up character when his "allies" simply let the cleric die...or perhaps pay to have someone else "teach him a lesson".
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I echo Karek's suggestion. Use the gp values of the items and deduct them from the cash money share. Everybody should get a roughly equal split, and if someone gets shorted, the party should make sure the difference gets made up next time. The players should be responsible for handling this themselves; I don't think it needs to be the GM's job.
Of course, this assumes a munchkin-free party. If you need anti-munchkin measures, I suggest rust monsters going after the offenders, or disjunction traps if they don't take the hint.
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I agree that roleplay is the best thing to do, but its also good for the party to have some basic rules in place.
Generally speaking add up the gp value of all treasure - coin, gems & jewelry, magic items (sale value only) etc. When you split up the treasure, everyone gets as close to an equal share as possible in overall value.
My party's have never been selfish or greedy - whenever an item appears to be character-specific, its a no-brainer. Everyone figures it'll even out over time.
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I've (as a player) been the party treasurer for years. My group defaults to me to help make choices of who gets what. For the most part all the gold and items go directly onto the loot sheet but if somebody wants it, all they do is say so. And then we just look at:
1) Can they use it?
2) Can another character (who wants it) utilize it better?
3) Do they have a similar item already (ie, they're wearing a Ring of Protection +1 and the item in question is a Ring of Protection +2)
Each character makes their case as to why they want the item, and then we as a group decide who gets it. Best way of doing loot IMO. We've had maybe one or two disputes over treasure in the last 5 years.
One way to handle it is to have them set up a system whereby if you want a particular item from the loot, everybody else gets a commensurate share of the gold profit. So, say you get 2000 gp and a Cloak of Resistance +1 to split between 3 players, then one gets the cloak, and the others get 1000 gp apiece. Rolling off is as good an idea as any to determine who gets the cloak, but this way, the other guys can go out and get their own.
My groups don't often squabble about putting the item where it would fit best. Letting the rogue have the Lens of Perception, for instance, when it can be your life or death, is a very good plan.
I do something like this. As DM, I wait till after the adventure is over to award xp and treasure. I list every item out with its sell value (half for most things, full value for art, gems, etc...) and total it all up with actual gold/silver/copper pieces found and divide that by the # of party members*. They each get their share, and can then choose to "buy back" any of the stuff found at the listed sell-back prices.
If two people want the same thing, they can work it out a number of ways. They could do a coin flip / die roll for it. The one who gets it could pay the other person half what it cost so that PC can then go and buy it from a shop (if possible). That way, in effect they both end up paying 75% market price for the item. Or, if it's a case like they found a ring of protection +3 and one PC who wants it has a +2 and the other none, the former PC sells or donates his old +2 ring to the other PC and purchases the new one. Lots of options to take, however they want to work it out.
It sounds complicated, but it's mostly behind the scenes work. In practice it makes loot distribution pretty fair, simple, straight-forward, and argument-free.
*Actually, I also have a designated "party pool" of 10% of all wealth found, for things useful to the group as a whole. It's up to the party what to spend the party pool on, but wands of cure light wounds, scrolls of restoration, and so forth are the most common. So I divide 90% of the total value between the party members, technically.
I've (as a player) been the party treasurer for years. My group defaults to me to help make choices of who gets what. For the most part all the gold and items go directly onto the loot sheet but if somebody wants it, all they do is say so. And then we just look at:
1) Can they use it?
2) Can another character (who wants it) utilize it better?
3) Do they have a similar item already (ie, they're wearing a Ring of Protection +1 and the item in question is a Ring of Protection +2)Each character makes their case as to why they want the item, and then we as a group decide who gets it. Best way of doing loot IMO. We've had maybe one or two disputes over treasure in the last 5 years.
Seconded. Life as an adventurer is dangerous, so loot should go to those who can use it best, use it most often, or need it most. Items are rarely distributed in a fashion that's equitable to all, especially in pre-made or randomly generated treasure. People should ignore the short to medium term inequities in treasure - survival will yield more treasure in the future!
One thing the DM can do is hand out occ items that can be used by only one PC- and even worse have some sort of minor quirk that makes them less valuable to sell- like a +2 shocking longbow, str 14, usable only by a elf.
But the cash value + buy back system also works well.
Best use works great in a mature group.
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I frown on all the book keeping. Haveing to look up all the prices, devide it by players, figure out what is sold at half versus keept and counted at full, having to adjust when a player sees nothing they want or the last five fights aere all against stuff with no treasure or they had too much gear making the fights easy. All that and everything else tha is just a waste of time. I just say look at the table on page 399 and add the right value to your gear when you level up. Have a few guidlines like no item worth more than half your total gear. Maybe some rules on how often you can buy wands with less than 50 charges. Maybe show your dm a list of the new stuff every level or two just in case he complanes about how rare special materials are. I say that the items have a market price for a reason. If someone has that much money, they should be able to find it.
Ideally, loot distribution should be entirely IC and handled by the characters. After all, IC you, the DM, do not exist.
This principle sometimes may fall to rule -1: Everyone should be having fun. If disputes over the distribution of loot is impinging on people's fun, then you should step in and make "recommendations" about how the loot should be split.
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As some of you may know from my previous post, I'm pretty new to running tabletop RPGs for my friends. Our group has only had one play session, but one of the aspects of the game we had trouble figuring out was loot distribution.
1) Either let the characters handle it or
2) Work with the players to find some way of handling it. This should probably be a little ad hoc. If your fighter is specialized in the greatsword and you find a +3 greatsword... he gets it, no questions asked. if an item comes up that anyone could use, whoever has the lowest wealth gets the new item. Gold peices should make up for people not getting treasure, and the party should set aside some funds for a raise dead or two.
Once the Cleric decided to leave a group while his friends fought a wolf, the only thing that stopped him was me mentioning the fact that if he didn't participate in the fight then he'd get no XP for it at all.
NEVER split the party. This message needs to be driven home with a stake to the heart and pounded in till it hits coffin.
OOC it makes it a pain for the DM to track different things at different locations. ICly walking off by yourself is dangerous.
Ok, the cleric, who i presume has no disable device, went to look a treasure chest? Good. The chest is
1) Trapped
2) A mimic that grabs him while the party is busy elsewhere
3) Sets off a silence trap and contains an ooze.
4) Guarded
If the cleric winds up naked in a kobold cooking pot simmering with 7 herbs and spices he'll probably learn the benefits of teamwork.
NEVER split the party. This message needs to be driven home with a stake to the heart and pounded in till it hits coffin.
OOC it makes it a pain for the DM to track different things at different locations. ICly walking off by yourself is dangerous.
Right, it's half as much fun for the players and twice as much work for the DM. It's easy to solve tho. The soloist should just be told "You find nothing of interest", then go back to the main party with combat, loot, etc. Go back to the solo guy "You find nothing of interest", and keep repeating until he gets the hint.
if you are a bunch of good, not selfish friends, then roleplay and look what you can use.
if you came together by chance, or your friendship wasn't tested through tough troubles in the past then for gods sake don't roleplay or the thief (= rogue) will end up with everything and your players will be angry as hell but can't show it in character because the sleight of hand was too high.
Make an exact account, sell everything, and split the money 100% fairly. Metagame thinking if necessary, if it serves fun.
I've seen the greed-obsessed cleric before. Hmm, yes indeed.
As a player, I think to the victor (or the quick rogue) go the spoils. If I'm the rogue, I will try to steal as much as possible, the primitive thief-brain inside the rogue telling that gp equals xp. Hide it away, add some to the party loot, then, as I just did in a game before, in down time, magnify all loot via gambling, then spend it on the best brothel in town during all the down time. Yes, let the other characters shop for items, craft, scamper back and forth. My character uses their rewards in an entirely selfish and non meta-gamey fashion. A +2 set of armour? Ha! +20 ladies of the evening. Drugs, food, wine, women.
They should come back to the party reeking of perfume, exotic scents and penniless. A perfect start for the next adventure.
Characters without subterfuge will want more even and clear divisions. Magic item obsessed characters grab first and tell the rest tough cookies. They should be fed molten gold Viserys-style.
DrDeth, somewhat funny, but a solo party member can do so much of benefit to the larger group, themselves and the plot, if say they are an assassin, rogue or bard. Scout, aid, distract, probe defences. Some dms hate this, and some dms also hate more effort and really going with the game as it gets harder, and more complex. Do not be a dm of a split party, be the world around all of the actors.
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Our group has recently done this:
We wait until a somewhat large amount of loot has been collected, making sure to identify everything before picking loot. If loot is piecemeal and not grouped, we let a player "hold" it, using it until it is officially divided.
Then we roll d20s for loot pick. We pass around the loot available and everyone gets their first picks based on their die roll. Once the loot is down to the stuff no one wants, the rest is sold and split evenly. If a loot-pick item is ever sold by a character, the gold received from it is split evenly. This prevents characters from choosing the highest value item and selling it for gold when it would be valuable to another party member.
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As a GM, I never tell the party how to split the gold and magic items. They can do what ever they want. I will point out sometimes when someone hasn't gotten their fair share of magic items, or I might point out that the matched set of +1 Elven swords that are balance to alow you to use them as light weapons for TWF would probably be better suited to the elven two handed ranger....but what ever.
Couple of suggestions.
1. Recommend that they distribute the gold as if they had another party member. So if there are 4 of them, make 5 shares. The extra share is there for group related expenses [buying a base of operations, raise dead costs, wands, etc]. Really stops a lot of complaints.
2. If you have a rogue...or in your case a cleric going off on their own. Let them. But then they will be running into encounters that are based on the whole party dealing with, or they are going to be kicked from the group. If it is a rogue walking off on their own, I can see the rest of the party having a rough time when they come back all bloody from a fight and the cleric telling them that he is all out of healing spells for the day. For the cleric, one big trapped chest should put him in his tracks.
As GM, I make sure the party has read the relevant portions of the Buccaneer Code, particularly the extra shares portion. Then I leave them alone. Their loot, their worry.
When I play, I go with the party mean, But I do pay attention to the shifty players. I have noticed that the real thieves AREN'T the Rogues, but mostly full spell casters. They generally try and blackmail their way out of trouble.
The best system I've seen was geared to a share per character level with an extra share to the leader and any player burning consumables for the party's benefit. In the interest of full disclosure, I was a potion making Cleric who received the extra share. Items were 'priced' at half book (see StreamOfTheSky entry above).
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I had an awful recent experience with loot distribution. A player(and eventually one other) were advocated a highly complicated system that involved a party pool that would be used to buy equipment based on rank and contribution, including NPCs, that when desired to take one's share would evoke a penalty. I honestly cannot stress how terrible this idea was. The main advocate was also a monk with a vow of poverty(pathfinder, not exalted deeds) and even after being told the vote was a no, continued to argue his point until almost all players had left the room to avoid him, and then the DM had to end the session and demand that no player discuss gold in no way whatsoever or lose a level.
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My players HATE HATE HATE bookkeeping of any kind. They are terrible about keeping track of loot, food, whatever, to the point of forgetting they have stuff and screwing themselves over. I'm pretty much giving up on them in that regard as of tonight's session. I'm basically going to tell them: "Look, we'll hand-wave the bookkeeping. I won't make you keep track of your daily expenses, or your rations. However, if you don't play smart about logistics, then you have no recourse when I summarily announce that you're broke and/or out of food.
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My group has always rocked the "Dibs" system:
An item that is obviously far more beneficial for a certain character goes to that character; for example, the first magic greatsword will without a doubt go to the weapon master fighter who specialized in greatsword use. Anything else that might be disagreed on goes up for auction. Players can choose to call "Dibs" on an item up for auction. If they are the only character to call "Dibs" they get the item and cannot call "Dibs" again until every other player at the table has done so. If more than one player calls dibs, those involved roll d20s-the highest result burns their "Dibs" and gains the item. If nobody calls "Dibs" on an item it goes into a party fund and gets sold, with the resulting gold being evenly split among the party. It has worked well for several years.
Every so often I audit character's wealth to make sure that the placed treasure is being evenly distributed, and if someone is lagging behind I make sure there are things geared toward them that help make up the difference in the near future.
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As the GM, I only tell the players what they found and help with any math they want to use to divide the loot. They figure the rest out between themselves, and I think that's how it should be.
They don't do a whole lot of roleplaying in that respect. I have never gone into telling PCs individually/privately what their character finds and having them roleplay either being truthful or dishonest about bringing what they've found to the group. I can see how that might be fun, but it could also use up a lot of time and create friction in the group (such as everyone demanding a Perception, Sense Motive, etc check during loot distribution), so I'm not going to mess with a good thing. It would also create a TON more work for me as a GM :)
I find it best to just have the GM give out treasure. It keeps everything fair and avoids arguments.
I had an awful recent experience with loot distribution. A player(and eventually one other) were advocated a highly complicated system that involved a party pool that would be used to buy equipment based on rank and contribution, including NPCs, that when desired to take one's share would evoke a penalty. I honestly cannot stress how terrible this idea was. The main advocate was also a monk with a vow of poverty(pathfinder, not exalted deeds) and even after being told the vote was a no, continued to argue his point until almost all players had left the room to avoid him, and then the DM had to end the session and demand that no player discuss gold in no way whatsoever or lose a level.
The party could have all killed the poverty monk together, and divided his bones and viscera evenly.
Yeah, it is really funny when a player refuses to abide by a vote. F**k you guys, I am more important, you are all idiots! Is basically what they are saying.
Seconded. Life as an adventurer is dangerous, so loot should go to those who can use it best, use it most often, or need it most. Items are rarely distributed in a fashion that's equitable to all, especially in pre-made or randomly generated treasure. People should ignore the short to medium term inequities in treasure - survival will yield more treasure in the future!I've (as a player) been the party treasurer for years. My group defaults to me to help make choices of who gets what. For the most part all the gold and items go directly onto the loot sheet but if somebody wants it, all they do is say so. And then we just look at:
1) Can they use it?
2) Can another character (who wants it) utilize it better?
3) Do they have a similar item already (ie, they're wearing a Ring of Protection +1 and the item in question is a Ring of Protection +2)Each character makes their case as to why they want the item, and then we as a group decide who gets it. Best way of doing loot IMO. We've had maybe one or two disputes over treasure in the last 5 years.
That's pretty much the rule with the groups I play with too. There may be some doing from time to time who can make "best" use of an item. Sometimes it involves concentrating bonuses, sometimes coensating for weaknesses.
We also try to make allowances to prevent over-concentrations of magic too even if that means suboptimal use.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I had to try to not kill the guy, and I was the only evil character! Even in game, I have to BS some reason not to kill him.
Pity. You should have killed him. I would. I remember in a Korvosan campaign I ran, there was also a greddy loot-obsessed cleric who would do the book-keeping. After one encounter, he wanted the ring of protection. The warmage didn't bother to reply. The druid didn't care. The werewolf barbarian however told him otherwise. The barbarian was the most injured and had contributed the most to that combat. Its up to the party to handle it in game. I know a player/DM who doesn't like party conflict. Sometimes its necessary though or else everyone is getting along because they are "the party". Which is all good for continuing the campaign but why would the CG fighter condone the actions of a PC if those actions are the same of a CE orc? It doesn't add up at all. Especially if everyone just met.
If the cleric keeps playing a loot ninja then it may be time to break out a few cursed items.
This. Also, as has been mentioned. Roleplay it. Loot "distribution" shouldn't be a mechanical thing, imho, it should be discussed by the players in character. I've had a lot of "I found it first," conversations take place at the table. At the end of the day, though, most groups will want to distribute things in a way that best benefits the party. As long as they aren't all greedy SOBs.
Strategicly: The party should build up non-casters before casters, because they benefit more from magic items, especially weapons and armor.
Roleplay: It's fine to roleplay a greedy character, but expect it to come back into your face at some point.
If a bunch of friends start a business together and 3 of them find they can barely get by and discover that one of them is constantly wearing armani suits, gucci, and a rolex watch, while driving a corvette.....
... I think those friends are going to notice that something is up... and they will probably kick the other player out of their party (which is akin to character death basically).
Not the GM/DM Problem. It is the PC's problem and how they want to split it. Let them work it out. Any thing you do will seem harsh and aditry. D&D is team game. If they want to put greed before need then they will fail in the long run (not your fault).
ie "Super tank idea" PC put all the wealth on one PC let them fight while the rest the PC sit back and buff. Sound good right till the monster go by him and smash the soft other PC cause they need 20 to hit the super tank but 3 to hit every one elis. Fun for few fight but the long borring for all.
Yes, by Ydersius, a greedy player does risk being kicked out of the party. It's a fine line to play, can cause unhappiness, but it can be a good solution, especially for a real awful character.
I had forgotten that story equalizer. How did it finally go (I always fell asleep at loot division and shopping time)?
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As a GM, beyond some very basic non-game suggestions like "think about your party as a team" or "this is a game for everyone to have fun, so do your best to make sure nobody feels they've been cheated" I don't see any GM role whatsoever in distribution of loot.
From an in-game perspective, how is the GM involvement in loot distribution handled anyway? For those GMs who act as "loot masters" and divvy out the loot to the waiting party members, is this role played at all? Or is it purely metagamed? If it is role played, what do you do? Does a divine voice from on high appear and say "thou shalt give the +2 keen dagger to the rogue!" (Using the voice of Charlton Heston would help here I think.) Or do the items magically separate themselves into piles with arcane marked party member names? How the heck does that work?
For those GMs who don't distribute loot until after the adventure.... I don't even know what to say. So I kill the Ogre who has a +2 thundering hammer, but I can't touch the thing until the adventure is over? Where does it go? Who is carrying it?
I find myself totally and completely nonplussed by many of the comments on this thread. The mere concept of the GM taking on this role totally violates any concept I have of role playing an adventure group. I am quite literally amazed.
My party divides all numerical treasures (gold, non component gems and jewelry etc.) into a number of shares equal to # of party members +1. The extra share becomes the party fund.
The party fund is used to buy food, transport, servants, mutually beneficial magic items and material components, shelter and wages for our employees.
Items get honestly discussed in order of who wants what, so far it has in no way been an issue.
As a GM, beyond some very basic non-game suggestions like "think about your party as a team" or "this is a game for everyone to have fun, so do your best to make sure nobody feels they've been cheated" I don't see any GM role whatsoever in distribution of loot.
From an in-game perspective, how is the GM involvement in loot distribution handled anyway? For those GMs who act as "loot masters" and divvy out the loot to the waiting party members, is this role played at all? Or is it purely metagamed? If it is role played, what do you do? Does a divine voice from on high appear and say "thou shalt give the +2 keen dagger to the rogue!" (Using the voice of Charlton Heston would help here I think.) Or do the items magically separate themselves into piles with arcane marked party member names? How the heck does that work?
For those GMs who don't distribute loot until after the adventure.... I don't even know what to say. So I kill the Ogre who has a +2 thundering hammer, but I can't touch the thing until the adventure is over? Where does it go? Who is carrying it?
I find myself totally and completely nonplussed by many of the comments on this thread. The mere concept of the GM taking on this role totally violates any concept I have of role playing an adventure group. I am quite literally amazed.
"Thou shalt not give the +2 keen dagger to a front-line character, as a back-up and for use in a grapple/after being swallowed. Nein, the rogue shall have it."
It's pretty funny brah.
Eight years....