An encounter is coming up with a character level 90 party!
Yes I mean 90 as in 9X10.
I am in need of some character build/ ideas.
This level of a character will be INSANE so please do not hold back. Everything is allowed.
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You want help building a level 90 player character as part of a party of level 90 player characters for an upcoming encounter?
May I suggest this approach?
It is going to depend on how you handle advancement past level 20. Switching to a new class? Extrapolating class abilities out? Using the old Epic rules? Something else entirely?
Regardless, at such a high level, things are going to get weird. Spells that allow saves basically aren't going to work. Abilities with saves that increase with level, on the other hand, will be nearly unstoppable. Almost all damage will be coming from Deadly Aim or Power Attack, and hitting will be a given. I'd say this would make sneak attack powerful, but everyone's armor is probably going to have heavy fortification by then (making it extra useless).
That is about all I can say without more information. A level 90 encounter is an interesting idea, though be aware that this is so far outside of what the expectations of the system are that you shouldn't expect anything to work particularly well.
What i meant was a single chaeracter with ECL 90
Nothing good can come from this.
That being said-
AM BARBARIAN
All I'm going to say is, if the normal progressions are followed, that's going to be one tough eidolon...
Design a halfling fighter with insane hitpoints and a very slow speed. Then work out how much damage getting launched from a cannon deals. ;)
Are you capped to 20 levels in a given class? If so, go with max levels in classes like Divine Strategist and Diviner Wizard so you can be sure you're going first. And have enough Urban Barbarian levels for Spell Sunder.
And... I dont know. It doesn't really matter. Its going to be nuclear-rocket tag. And utterly insane.
There is a shadow dragon template on the wizards.com website. By the time they got to CR 30 they were beating up on deities easily if you go off stats alone. I don't know if it is still there or not. Checking the Den or that other optimization site might also help.
Even better why not just use PUN-PUN?
He said "Everything is allowed". :)
Was it really necessary to bring him into this?
Even better why not just use PUN-PUN?
I thought about it. Then I thought better of it :P
Really though, its not actually innapropriate to this power scale :P
Just make a female character, lets call her Betsy, who has the following statistics:
Make her immune to all negative effects and damage and ignore any penalties. She always goes first and is never surprised. She is aware of all creatures and objects on all planes. She can freely move through any object. She can choose to make herself undetectable by any form of magic as a free action that can be used when not her turn. She can read all minds at will and knows all knowledge.
She has a "fickle finger of frack" attack. This attack is a free action that can be used at any time, even when not her turn; it ignores all defenses and can kill any creature or destroy any object at any distance (line of sight is not required). She also has the ability to create any creature, object, force, or magical effect at will as a free action which can be used when not her turn.
That was easy!
Seriously. Play one of the superhero games.
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Are you a Dragonball fan, perchance?
Given that optimized level 20 characters can already pull off cosmically ridiculous amounts of damage, why even go through the trouble of actually drafting these characters? I don't see why you'd need character sheets, dice or even rules to play this game at the point where you're considering level 90 characters. I mean, I'm not trying to poop all over your good time, but it seems like you could save yourself a whole lot of effort by just sitting down with the other players and then taking turns describing all the so-incredibly-stupidly-powerful-it's-gone-past-being-cool-and-now-it's-just -really-sad malarkey that your characters are doing. Who's going to bother to argue that a level 90 Half-Chromatic Dragon Half-Robocop Flumph Assassin/Paladin/Barbarian/Summoner/Ninja/Decepticon can't do 847-godzillian damage anyway?
Oh right; gamers.
Carry on, I guess.
Nah:
Level 20 fighter
Level 20 ranger
Level 20 rogue
Level 20 monk
Level 10 paladin
Prepare to be squished like a bug.
Were you looking for PC stats, NPC/ Monster stats to challenge 90th Level PCs, or a 90th Level NPC as a challenge / "roadblock from heck" for a group of PCs?
-TimD
90 levels allows for +22 to stats due to level bonuses. Sweet!
Other than that, the only thing I can say about playing at level 90 is it sounds like a headache and a half and expect each person's turn to take like 30 minutes as they figure out what the heck they are going to do. Yoinks!
What's WBL for a 90th level PC anyway?
Let's just say the dm is sending a time dragon at us... its going to be nuts..........
Since it's not 4/1 yet, I'll assume this is a serious request, which begs the following questions:
If this is a 90th level character, why is anyone taking this seriously?
Rules top out at 20th for PCs.
Nothing defined in the rules comes close. You're more powerful than arch-demons & demigods...
In what context is this encounter viable? Is the pc on a material plane? On a different plane? If different, which one?
What's been challenging the PC for the last 70 levels? How are you not at a been there, done that stage?
I never knew about PUN PUN thanks so very much for bring this "thing" to my attention I now understand so many of my old 3.5 players mentality now.....sigh
I never knew about PUN PUN thanks so very much for bring this "thing" to my attention I now understand so many of my old 3.5 players mentality now.....sigh
Pun-pun is mostly theoretical. The real problem with 3.5 were the hordes of ape-shifted druids dual-wielding two-handed weapons in full humanoid armor and the rogues shapeshifted into 12-handed abominations gaining a dozen sneak attacks per round...
Or crazier stuff... In other words, builds people actually played and defended as opposed to theoretical studies of how broken you could make it.
I'll spare the lecture and say I need to know more about the campaign before I can answer your question seriously.
Is this a one shot confrontation where you just want to play with absurdly huge numbers?
Have you been playing with houserule epic advancement? Or 3.5 epic? Is this an actual party that's been played to absurdly high levels?
Okay, the lecture: You're in a wild frontier at level 90. No system support. Divide by zero. Math will not save you. Encounter balance at that level is a matter of religion. With more context maybe I can help.
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I never knew about PUN PUN thanks so very much for bring this "thing" to my attention I now understand so many of my old 3.5 players mentality now.....sighPun-pun is mostly theoretical. The real problem with 3.5 were the hordes of ape-shifted druids dual-wielding two-handed weapons in full humanoid armor and the rogues shapeshifted into 12-handed abominations gaining a dozen sneak attacks per round...
Or crazier stuff... In other words, builds people actually played and defended as opposed to theoretical studies of how broken you could make it.
Actually wizards confirmed on one of the many pun-pun forums that he does work mechanically. But it does all hinge on him meeting two specific creatures from two different settings.
Alright here's the deal, I apologize im currently in a class where my teacher is a stickler for computer use.
But on the actual topic, It is a one shot single encounter.
No we have not built up to this point it is essentially a "See how hard you can break the game and create an insane character that literally can rip a hole in the universe.
I have no clue on the plane or anything regarding place or time.
What we will be fighting is a time dragon from Dragon magazine.
Yes we are using 3.5 at this point and we will be using those epic advancement. I am not a member on those forums and i know that most of you have played 3.5 exstensively.
And yes turns will take hours probably to the point where someone can go back intime and create their own demi plain then let that demi plane grow while stockpiling minions through time so that you can become a demigod from all the followers type of turn.
I did not mean this to offend anyone or freak anyone out. I just thought i'd see how all of you would break the game in an insanely bad way. Because i'm shooting for something ridiculous. So with that stated how would you?
Actually wizards confirmed on one of the many pun-pun forums that he does work mechanically. But it does all hinge on him meeting two specific creatures from two different settings.I never knew about PUN PUN thanks so very much for bring this "thing" to my attention I now understand so many of my old 3.5 players mentality now.....sighPun-pun is mostly theoretical. The real problem with 3.5 were the hordes of ape-shifted druids dual-wielding two-handed weapons in full humanoid armor and the rogues shapeshifted into 12-handed abominations gaining a dozen sneak attacks per round...
Or crazier stuff... In other words, builds people actually played and defended as opposed to theoretical studies of how broken you could make it.
By "mostly theoretical" I didn't mean "doesn't work mechanically" I meant "nobody really played him." Because playing him is essentially "I win."
Make a level 90 ancient elven expert, max out your ranks in social skills and use the epic level rules to force gods to do your bidding via diplomacy checks. If that doesn't work just use the epic spellcasting rules to homebrew an i win spell, the epic level necromancy genocide spell would probably work.
Thanks for the explanation. Btw, welcome the the Paizo forums.
I'm no expert on 3.5 epic, but I'm sure someone will take you up.
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Monk[Sohei]20
Ranger[Beastmaster]20
Bard[DawnflowerDervish]20
Fighter[anything with Weapon Training]10
Cavalier[Musketeer](OrderOfTheWarrior)20 (doesn't forfeit Expert Trainer class feature, so you can take the Horse Master feat for a full-level druid animal companion mount via ranger!)
You'll have a 90th-level mount, be able to flurry as a 20th-level monk with every weapon in five different Weapon Training fighter categories, get +40ish damage each swat off just Challenge+WT+Inspire+Enemy numeric bonuses (naturally x3 and x4 weapons are your favorites in conjunction with Order of the Warrior's Strike True auto-crit feature to do 500 to a thou in a single hit).
...assuming, of course, you can't just insta-kill your opponent via Deadly performance or some other method.
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Well this is certainly different...
I do not have the time to post all the feats needed but for a general build I can give you an idea.
For a one shot it will certainly be alot of work.
Druid - 27
Alchemist (Archetypes) Vivisectionist - 20
Planar shepherd - 10
Master of Many Forms - 10
WarShaper - 5
Natures Warrior - 5
Daggerspell Shaper - 10
Hulking Hurler - 3
Link to Planar Shepherd:
Planar Shepherd
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Of course, if 3rd edition & Epic handbook are permitted, then you'll be a....
Bard (followed by Sublime Chord and Mage of the Arcane Order prestige classes)
Cleric8or10 (or more, Pathfinder version)
Mystic Theurge (as many levels as necessary to cast 9th-level spells Quickened/Empowered/Maximized or whatever)
Samurai20
Sohoi4+ (for Monastic Mount)
Cavalier4 (for Expert Trainer > Horse Master)
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By "mostly theoretical" I didn't mean "doesn't work mechanically" I meant "nobody really played him." Because playing him is essentially "I win."Actually wizards confirmed on one of the many pun-pun forums that he does work mechanically. But it does all hinge on him meeting two specific creatures from two different settings.I never knew about PUN PUN thanks so very much for bring this "thing" to my attention I now understand so many of my old 3.5 players mentality now.....sighPun-pun is mostly theoretical. The real problem with 3.5 were the hordes of ape-shifted druids dual-wielding two-handed weapons in full humanoid armor and the rogues shapeshifted into 12-handed abominations gaining a dozen sneak attacks per round...
Or crazier stuff... In other words, builds people actually played and defended as opposed to theoretical studies of how broken you could make it.
ahhh ok. Now I understand.
Btw, a CR 90 creature is approximately as powerful as between 4 to 8 billion tarrasques, so I don't think a simple character with 90 levels in a class is going to cut it.
Can someone give me a link to this PUN-PUN thing? I'm a little lost here...
As for the OP if you are using 3.5 rules and classes you'll need 20 of a shifting heavy druid, 20 of a pouncing barbarian, 20 of a ranger or something else that will give you damage bonuses against a dragon, 20 of a full caster (wizard is best, although cleric or sorc might work well) and 10 levels of war hulk. Wild shape into the nastiest thing you can, have the ability that lets you cast while in wild shape, pounce on the dragon, and tear chunks out of it with truely, insanely epic strength. Plus two full casters spells to set the fight up in your favor.
I'm pretty sure that Quivering Palm will kill anything in this situation.
The save would be in the 70's.
I don't know what a Time Dragon is, what is the Fort. Save?
If it less than +50 you win.
Honestly I don't think combat will take that long.
If you win Inititive, you will kill the Dragon.
The damage per hit would be; What 800 average?
You just have to go first.
Hulking Hurler, War Hulk, Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster/Bloodline shenanigans to extend their progression.
Use Gate or interplanetary teleport to pick up a planet. Heck, pick up one for each hand, and drop them on the dragon.
if you can prepare:
lvl 20 wizard, wealth of lvl 70 (rest doesn't matter)
create demiplane, timeless
antimagic aura everywhere but a few 5 feet cubes only you know about, they can even be in solid matter.
Buy as many adamantine golems as you can.
place them around portal
wait
see a fight where 100 undying golems grapple something without magic
if you want a fair fight and use only paizo:
20 ninja (so he can't see you)
20 unbreakable fighter (so he can't mind effect you)
10 vivisectionist beastmorph (for 20d6 sneak attack, selfbuff, etc)
20 wizard (you need time stop, wish, etc.)
if you can use all of 3.5:
lvl 70 commoner with 10 bags of holding full of goldcoins and a golden armor (because, where is the point? at least you can laugh at your GM because he has wasted way more time on his preparation than you on yours)
Edit: if you are 100% sure where or what you fight go ranger 20, rogue 20, horizon walker 10. You might have to invent some terrain types to take as favorite, my suggestion: Candyland. You'll get 21 favored terrains, which is +42 attack and damage to monsters native to that terrain. Perhaps 20 levels gunslinger for maximum number of touch attacks.
edit2: ups, I thought it was lvl 70, but do those 20 levels really matter?
Play a level 90 gnoll seamstress.
from the Ankh Morpok Guild of Seamstresses, or a real seamstress, with mushroom and everything?