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I have a player who has Elven Reflexes (Half-Elf Race trait), and another feat, in a different category. He's about to level, and is considering getting the "Additional traits" feat, to pick up 2 more feats. One of the ones he's considering is Adopted. (I'm not sure which race feat he wants to buy with it.)
Now, I'm inclined to rule against it, because that would essentially mean he has 2 race feats (Elven Reflexes and the new one.) He says this isn't fair, since that actually limits 2 categories, rather than just one. (That is, if he took adopted, he wouldn't be able to take a Race trait OR a Social trait.) My feeling is that the adopted trait says "I was raised by X race, instead of my actual race", and allowing another one would say "I was raised by both my actual race, AND another race."
So, does buying adopted limit you from taking both a social (as adopted is a social trait) and a race (as the "free" trait would be a racial), or can you have an adopted trait for one race, and a race trait from a second race?
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Restrictions on Trait Selection
There are a few rules governing trait selection. To begin with, your GM controls how many bonus traits a PC begins with; the default assumption is two traits. When selecting traits, you may not select more than one from the same list of traits (the four basic traits each count as a separate list for this purpose). Certain types of traits may have additional requirements, as detailed in the section above.Remember also that traits are intended to model events that were formative in your character's development, either events from before he became an adventurer, or (in the case of additional traits gained via the Additional Traits feat) ones that happened while adventuring. Even if your character becomes a hermit and abandons society, he'll still retain his legacy of growing up an aristocrat if he took the relevant social trait. The one exception to this is religion traits—since these traits require continued faith in a specific deity, your character can indeed lose the benefits of these traits if he switches religions. In this case, consult your GM for your options. She may simply rule that your character loses that trait, or she might allow him to pick a new religion trait tied to his new deity. Another option is that if your character abandons a religion, he loses the associated religion trait until he gains an experience level, at which point he may replace a lost religion trait with a basic faith trait.
Have him explain how he was adopted and raised by a different family after he began his adventuring career. The most important thing to keep in mind is that traits are an optional rule designed to reward RP and solely at the discretion of the GM.
You guys are right but you’re wrong. “Adopted: You were adopted and raised by someone not of your actual race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents' race. “ This means that when you pick Adopted you gain a race trait- of anthoer race, as a Social Trait.
And, it makes sense for a half-elf, too.
Have him explain how he was adopted and raised by a different family after he began his adventuring career. The most important thing to keep in mind is that traits are an optional rule designed to reward RP and solely at the discretion of the GM.Restrictions on Trait Selection
There are a few rules governing trait selection. To begin with, your GM controls how many bonus traits a PC begins with; the default assumption is two traits. When selecting traits, you may not select more than one from the same list of traits (the four basic traits each count as a separate list for this purpose). Certain types of traits may have additional requirements, as detailed in the section above.Remember also that traits are intended to model events that were formative in your character's development, either events from before he became an adventurer, or (in the case of additional traits gained via the Additional Traits feat) ones that happened while adventuring. Even if your character becomes a hermit and abandons society, he'll still retain his legacy of growing up an aristocrat if he took the relevant social trait. The one exception to this is religion traits—since these traits require continued faith in a specific deity, your character can indeed lose the benefits of these traits if he switches religions. In this case, consult your GM for your options. She may simply rule that your character loses that trait, or she might allow him to pick a new religion trait tied to his new deity. Another option is that if your character abandons a religion, he loses the associated religion trait until he gains an experience level, at which point he may replace a lost religion trait with a basic faith trait.
Sitting around the campfire one night, he says: "I miss my parents. Did I ever tell you guys about them? You see, I was actually raised by ______...." The benefit is just kicking in now because something he learned back then finally makes sense.
Sitting around the campfire one night...etc.
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I like this explanation. Plus, if it isn't game breaking, who gives a rat's ass as long as fun is being had? Roll with it.
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The additional traits feat is pretty clear about what you can take, and what you can't.
"These traits must be chosen from different lists, and cannot be chosen from lists from which you have already selected a character trait. You must meet any additional qualifications for the character traits you choose"
Even though the adopted trait lets him choose a race trait, he still must have the race trait open for use.
"When selecting traits, you may not select more than one from the same list of traits (the four basic traits each count as a separate list for this purpose). Certain types of traits may have additional requirements, as detailed in the section above."
All the requirements must be met, including the additional one.
As a dm, I'd let him do it and just tell him he can't pick a trait that provides a bonus to something another trait provides a bonus to. So no stacking up on initiative bonuses.
As a dm, I'd let him do it and just tell him he can't pick a trait that provides a bonus to something another trait provides a bonus to. So no stacking up on initiative bonuses.
Actually, I'd be happy to let him take multiple traits that give the same bonus. However, like (almost) all kind of bonus, Trait bonuses don't stack with other Trait bonuses, so a Reactionary Warrior of Old still gets +2 to Ini, not more. *whistles innocently*
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The Additional Traits feat is an awkward mechanic to begin with, as it creates continuity/background issues. There are several traits that do not work well with gaining them over the course of an adventure.
From the wording of the Adopted Trait, it sounds like you are limited to the "Race Trait" category. But this is also in the core area, not the Golarion area, which has race specific traits in nearly all the categories.
It also assumes that the adoption was PART OF YOUR CHILDHOOD. That's where the "adopted and raised" part comes in. Not ooh.... "I just got adopted by Elves last week!"
...still, I find things like 'adopted - toothy' a tad hard to swallow. "Oh, my halfling got raised by a some half-orcs, so I developed tusks." Hmm...
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It also assumes that the adoption was PART OF YOUR CHILDHOOD. That's where the "adopted and raised" part comes in. Not ooh.... "I just got adopted by Elves last week!"...still, I find things like 'adopted - toothy' a tad hard to swallow. "Oh, my halfling got raised by a some half-orcs, so I developed tusks." Hmm...
It looks even worse when you do it, say over the course of the Rise of the Runelords adventure path. Once you are in the climax area with the goblins, you sprout huge teeth all of a sudden
It also assumes that the adoption was PART OF YOUR CHILDHOOD. That's where the "adopted and raised" part comes in. Not ooh.... "I just got adopted by Elves last week!"...still, I find things like 'adopted - toothy' a tad hard to swallow. "Oh, my halfling got raised by a some half-orcs, so I developed tusks." Hmm...
I was under the impression that traits under the races were separate from the "Traits" section and thus you could not get toothy (or keen senses or what have you) from adopted.
Am I wrong or did they just use the word "traits" twice in an unfortunate manner?
Sah, you're right. Toothy should not be achievable by Adopted.
EDIT: Otherwise I'd have an elf ninja with drow noble magic or an orc barbarian with the tengu swordtraining trait.
Guys there is a trait in the orcs of golarion book that gives you a bite attack.