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Organized Play Member. 68 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters.


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Liberty's Edge

A few notes on Assasinate to head off future problems. All of the following must be true for Assasinate to work.
1. It takes two rounds. The first being a standard action to study target.
2. The target has to be denied dex.
3. The rogue has to successfully land a sneak attack.
4. The target cannot be aware the ninja is a foe.
With all those restrictions Assasinate isn't actually that usefull in a combat environment.

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I'm unfamiliar with that enhancement. What book is it in?

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My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
James Fenix wrote:
fretgod99 wrote:
But wands aren't dependent on a user's CL, so this trait has no effect on them. I believe the only spell trigger items this trait impacts are staves.
If a non caster, say a fighter, took this trait he could use wands as if he was the appropriate casting class. So you could have a fighter using wands of fireball without needing to make UMD checks.
If you are willing to give up all your favored class bonuses.

I'm not saying it's a smart choice; just pointing out the option exists.

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fretgod99 wrote:
But wands aren't dependent on a user's CL, so this trait has no effect on them. I believe the only spell trigger items this trait impacts are staves.

If a non caster, say a fighter, took this trait he could use wands as if he was the appropriate casting class. So you could have a fighter using wands of fireball without needing to make UMD checks.

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lemeres wrote:
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
A Paladin can overcome it via Smite, if the Epic creature is Evil.

Ah, that might actually be a legitimate route. Anyone know of any other abilities that allows you to simply circumvent DR?

I know that martial artist monks have their "Exploit Weakness" ability, but that relies on a check of 10+Monster's CR, and I seem to remember that Paizo's rules for epic creatures in that download on this site about their test having the Epic levels separate from the regular ones. I have no idea what to label the CR of an Epic creature.

A 14th level inquisitor ignores damage reduction when they crit.

Liberty's Edge

Halflings can't be werebears. The base animal must be within one size difference from the base creature. Best a small character can do is a medium animal. Though since your gm is letting you play a lycanthrope in the first place that may not be much of a stumbling block.

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There are androids in numeria. Considering how close the campaign area of Kingmaker is to numeria you may consider them.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/android

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Arni Carni wrote:

Let's start with you FINAL NOTES:

No way you will "start bluff and diplomacy at +12" with these stats regardless of your skill set.

As an Inquisitor, you get 6 +INT skill ranks per level. You only start with 8. If you split them equally between Bluff and Diplomacy, you get

Bluff bonus = 4 ranks + 3 class -2 CHA = +5
Diplomacy bonus = 4 ranks + 3 class -2 CHA = +5

If I am mistaken, please show my how you figured you get +12 on these skills.

I have tried giving you more this in a longer post, but I keep losing the webpage in the middle or writing the post, so I am going to break my advice into bite-size chunks. Expect a couple of more after this one.

He's using the conversion to replace cha for wis on bluff and double dipping wisdom from the infiltrator archetype.

it's 1 rank+3 class skill+4 wisdom+4 wisdom=12 total modifier

Edit: Ninja'ed by 6 seconds

Liberty's Edge

To add to Loup Blanc's advice pick up the spell blood money from RotRL anniversary edition so you can bypass expensive material components in a pinch.

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Rich parents trait and a traveler's any tool.

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Disregard anything you read in this post pre edit. My doesn't-have-a-clueitis was flaring up.

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T'Hulk wrote:


My interpratation is that upon the first attack with first spear he becomes visible in essence loosing flatfoot against opponents so he can only get sneak attack damage on first attack am i correct?

A little nit pick, but being invisible does not make your opponent flat-footed. Being invisible denies your opponent their dex to ac. I only point this out as there are rogue/ninja tricks that only apply to flat-footed opponents and your player appears to be starting a sketchy rules trend.

Liberty's Edge

Two questions about applying this feat.

1)Since the animal companion changes to a magical beast does it gain a d10 hit and fast attack progression? I'm on the side of no but was wanting to hear from the community.

2)The celestial template grants SR equal to CR+5. However animal companions don't have a listed CR so should I reverse engineer the animal through the monster building rules or just ignore this part of the template and move on?

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If you're going for a ranged inquisitor I'd look into the preacher or spellbreaker archetypes. Solo tactics and bonus teamwork feats aren't the greatest with a ranged build. Of the two I personally prefer preacher but I can see a case made for the bonuses against mind affecting magic the spellbreaker gets.

Also the feather subdomain may be a good choice. The perception bonus will make finding clues much easier and a solid mount to fire from is always nice.

Finally for a detective inquisitor the orison 'Sift' is great flavor.

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Typing this on my phone so I apologize for the poor quality of this response.
In the combat chapter in the "actions in combat" table supernatural abilities are listed under standard action. I'll post more when I get home if you still can't find it.

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As others have posted I'd replace the rogue with an inquisitor.

On the damage front the rogue appears to have more damage potential than the inquisitor due to sneak attack but this is only true if the inquisitor is resource tapped. Let's look at a few levels using just class skills without spell buffs.

Level 6 (Your Example Build Level):
Sneak Attack: 3d6/Avg Damage 10.5/Damage Range 3-18
Destruction Judgment+Bane: 5+2d6/Average Damage 12/Damage Range 7-17

Level 12 (DPS Olympic Benchmark):
Sneak Attack: 6d6/Avg Damage 21/Damage Range 6-36
Destruction Judgement+Greater Bane: 9+4d6/Avg Damage 23/Damage Range 13-33

Level 20 (Cause we all love theory level caps):
Sneak Attack: 10d6/Avg Damage 35/Damage Range 10-60
Destruction Judgment+Greater Bane+Slayer: 13+4d6/Avg Damage 27/Damage Range 17-37

As you can see the two classes are neck and neck with either pulling ahead by a point or two at times. This difference skews vastly in the inquisitors favor if there is prebuff time before combat and as long as his resources last.

Second, and most important for the crit fishing build, is the spell Battlemind Link. Available to inquisitors at level 10 this spell drastically improves your ability to fish for crits.

Battlemind Link:

School divination [mind-affecting]; Level inquisitor 4, sorcerer/wizard 6
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range personal and close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target you and 1 ally
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
You fuse your thoughts with an ally's, allowing the two of you to fight in tandem, perfectly coordinated. You and the ally each roll initiative in combat and use the higher die result before adding modifiers. This has three effects.

Melee: If you both make melee attacks against the same creature, you both make attack rolls and both use the higher of the two dice for your attack rolls (plus bonuses).

Ranged: If you both make ranged attacks against the same creature, you both make attack rolls and both use the higher of the two dice for your attack roll (plus bonuses).

Spell: If you both cast spells and target the same area or same creature, affected creatures take a –2 penalty on their saving throw against the spells.

You and the target lose these benefits if you cannot see each other or if you or the target is unconscious or helpless.

Taking Keen Kukris we have a 15-20 crit range that gives us a 30% chance per attack to threaten a crit. With Battlemind Link up for every attack you have 210 possible d20 combinations with 85 of those containing a 15 or better on one of the die. This gives a 40.47% crit chance per attack. This is slightly better than having a 13-20 crit range.

Combine this with all the other buff spells like Divine Power and Improved Invisibility, great utility and for me the inquisitor wins hands down.

(Also if you want to get crazy take the Animal domain, pump your companions int score up and teach it a few teamwork feats.)

Liberty's Edge

Yes, they are reduced in price accordingly. The relevent text can be found near the beginning of the magic items chapter.

PRD wrote:

Charges, Doses, and Multiple Uses

Many items, particularly wands and staves, are limited in power by the number of charges they hold. Normally, charged items have 50 charges at most (10 for staves). If such an item is found as a random part of a treasure, roll d% and divide by 2 to determine the number of charges left (round down, minimum 1). If the item has a maximum number of charges other than 50, roll randomly to determine how many charges are left.

Prices listed are always for fully charged items. (When an item is created, it is fully charged.) For an item that's worthless when its charges run out (which is the case for almost all charged items), the value of the partially used item is proportional to the number of charges left. For an item that has usefulness in addition to its charges, only part of the item's value is based on the number of charges left.

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Liongold wrote:

james: are you saying 4 levels diping into Inquisitor?

No, I'm saying inquisitor all the way.

With the feathered subdomain and base class abilities you get 1/2 your level to intimidate, sense motive, survival to track, and perception.

Animal Companion at level 4 with Boon Companion at 5 to bring you up to full druid power. (Same advice if you play a ranger. Boon Companion makes a huge difference)

Judgements and Bane give great to hit and damage bonuses. This helps offset inquisitors being a medium BAB class. I've never had any problems hitting when I've played an inquisitor.

Spells,
Heals:Check
Dispel Magic:Check
Divine Might:Check
Invisibility:Check
Tactical Acumen:Check (I've seen GM's rule that flying doesn't count as higher ground since, you know, you're not on the ground so ymmv)

I will say the loss of Aspect of the Falcon hurts until you can get improved crit at 11.

Now the biggest problem I've had as an inquisitor is preparation time. They have a ton of buffs they can stack and I've been in many fights where I simply couldn't get to my full potential without spending the entire melee sitting in a corner buffing. A Metamagic Quicken rod can help offset this as can a good stealth check to ambush instead of being ambushed.

Of course you should play what you'll enjoy. I was mostly throwing Inquisitor out there to open up avenues you may not have realized.

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Inquisitor with the feather subdomain and take Boon Companion from Seeker of Secrets.

Trade in solo tactics with the preacher archetype since not many teamwork feats are ranged friendly.

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Where is the cleric's workshop/lab? Could furnish it with a zombie strapped to a table half dissected but still moving and moaning.

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PRD wrote:

Restrictions on Trait Selection

There are a few rules governing trait selection. To begin with, your GM controls how many bonus traits a PC begins with; the default assumption is two traits. When selecting traits, you may not select more than one from the same list of traits (the four basic traits each count as a separate list for this purpose). Certain types of traits may have additional requirements, as detailed in the section above.

Remember also that traits are intended to model events that were formative in your character's development, either events from before he became an adventurer, or (in the case of additional traits gained via the Additional Traits feat) ones that happened while adventuring. Even if your character becomes a hermit and abandons society, he'll still retain his legacy of growing up an aristocrat if he took the relevant social trait. The one exception to this is religion traits—since these traits require continued faith in a specific deity, your character can indeed lose the benefits of these traits if he switches religions. In this case, consult your GM for your options. She may simply rule that your character loses that trait, or she might allow him to pick a new religion trait tied to his new deity. Another option is that if your character abandons a religion, he loses the associated religion trait until he gains an experience level, at which point he may replace a lost religion trait with a basic faith trait.

Have him explain how he was adopted and raised by a different family after he began his adventuring career. The most important thing to keep in mind is that traits are an optional rule designed to reward RP and solely at the discretion of the GM.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hold on. I'll go dig out "The Book of Erotic Fantasy". It has cross breeding rules. . . What I bought it for the articles.
<_<
>_>
*runs*

Liberty's Edge

Noteleks wrote:

I was reading this due to me just starting a Magus and as one of the prerequisites it requires Weapon Expertise as a class feature. What classes have that as a class feature?

I am wondering if I am missing something or if this was a typo?

Thanks in advance.

Only place I can find it is a level 3 samurai.

Remember though the prerequisites states Weapon Expertise or Quick Draw so don't stress the Weapon Expertise bit too much.

Liberty's Edge

Poor visibility is not listed as causing difficult terrain. It is listed as causing hampered movement. These are seperate things.

Edit: i agree with your ruling mdt. I'm just trying to parse out the arguement

Liberty's Edge

mdt wrote:

Relevant rules, so everyone's on the same page.

prd wrote:


You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

So, only difficult terrain or darkness. Obscuring Mist is not darkness.

Let's look up difficult terrain.

PRD wrote:


Hampered Movement: Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement.

Oh yay, really helpful that.

Poor Visibility is not defined. It's strictly a GM thing. To me, I assume you can 5ft step in dim light. That's a 20% concealment. I also assume you can 5ft step in obscuring mist, because you can see 5 ft. I see no logic in saying you have to be able to see 20 or 30 or 50 or 200000 feet to be able to adjust 5 ft.

Okay I'm a little confused as to why you quoted hampered movement instead of difficult terrain here. As the 5-foot step rules state that only darkness or difficult terrain prevent a 5 foot step.

PRD wrote:

Difficult Terrain: Difficult terrain, such as heavy undergrowth, broken ground, or steep stairs, hampers movement. Each square of difficult terrain counts as 2 squares of movement. Each diagonal move into a difficult terrain square counts as 3 squares. You can't run or charge across difficult terrain.

If you occupy squares with different kinds of terrain, you can move only as fast as the most difficult terrain you occupy will allow.

Flying and incorporeal creatures are not hampered by difficult terrain.

Difficult terrain causes hampered movement. The only place poor visibility is mentioned is in the hampered movement section.

----

Fred_Ohm wrote:
I wonder why the Paizo staff refuses to clarify the stealth rules.

Because they're rewriting the whole thing. Stealth Playtest

Liberty's Edge

AerynTahlro wrote:

Powerful Charge is only granted to creatures of certain types (like a rhinoceros). How is it that your character has this ability and what bonus damage is being generated from it?

I can't find "Blade of Blood" anywhere... what is it?

Your confusion stems from him using old 3.5 material. Powerful Charge is a feat from Eberron and Blade of Blood is out of the Spell Compendium.

I'd post them but I don't want to cross the whole open content boundaries.

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Big Django wrote:
Talon Stormwarden wrote:


And for similar reasons, you can't use destructive smite with a charge either, the way I read it. Destructive Smite is a standard action all its own so can't be mixed with other actions such as charge and vital strike.

This is exactly the question.

Please note "a single melee attack" in the definition of

Destructive Smite

Etc.

Domains: A cleric's deity influences her alignment, what magic she can perform, her values, and how others see her. A cleric chooses two domains from among those belonging to her deity. A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if her alignment matches that domain. If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval). The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

Each domain grants a number of domain powers, dependent upon the level of the cleric, as well as a number of bonus spells. A cleric gains one domain spell slot for each level of cleric spell she can cast, from 1st on up. Each day, a cleric can prepare one of the spells from her two domains in that slot. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, a cleric can prepare it only in her domain spell slot. Domain spells cannot be used to cast spells spontaneously.

In addition, a cleric gains the listed powers from both of her domains, if she is of a high enough level. Unless otherwise noted, using a domain power is a standard action. Cleric domains are listed at the end of this class entry.

Emphasis mine. Destructive smite doesn't say otherwise therefore it's a standard action. Same with Ferocious Smite.

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mdt wrote:
If that's in response to my post, I didn't say of different alignments of Paladin. I said of different gods, who each have different credos and beliefs. A LG god of justice is going to have a different outlook than a NG god of healing, for example. Some GMs do tweak the requirements of the Paladin's based on the god they worship.

Naw MDT, it was a reply to the OP. I do agree with you on the different codes of dieties though.

Liberty's Edge

So far in Pathfinder there is no alternate paladin codes for various alignments. If 3.5 material is allowed there was an alternate in either Unearthed Arcana or Players Handbook 2. Can't remember which it's in.

As far as not running in to save every poor little waif that bats her eyelashes at you that's not something that can easily be solved without a sit down with your DM. Every time I've talked to someone about paladins being lawful stupid or stick-in-the-mud it leads back to the same thing. GM's being overly controlling and holding that Sword of Damocles over paladins heads a little too hard. I recommend having a talk with your GM and stating your desire to play a paladin, and that so long as you act 90% lawful good he'll let the 10% slide.

Liberty's Edge

I would never play a melee character with a strength of 5. Encumbrance isn't the problem. With a stat that low you can be taken out of a fight with ability damage in the blink of an eye not to mention you're a super easy target for combat maneuvers.

At level 3 when you begin play an ogre would need to roll a 5 to grab you and you'd need a 19 to escape. A 5 may work for other builds but not if you're going to be in melee.

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A. I would say no the attack has to target the wolf. This is because to provoke an AoO you are doing something that drops your guard and opens you to the attack. The gnome hasn't done anything to drop his guard, the wolf has. Allowing the attack to target a different creature because it's in the same square would be like targeting a familiar when a wizard casts a spell.

B. Yeah if they both threaten the orc when he drinks and both have an available AoO then yes they would both get one. Much the same as if you had two creatures flanking the orc when he drinks.

Liberty's Edge

My group is in the same boat as you. As such we use a bit of house ruling.

We say that you can only buy materials up to the max a town can support in a given time frame.

So let's say you want to build an item that will cost 30k but the town has a gp limit of 20k. You could buy most of the materials but have to wait for suppliers to restock to buy the rest of what you need. The timeframe is then up to GM discretion for when the town can get its next shipment of goods in.

I'd be interested to know how it actually works myself.

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DeadEnough wrote:
Is bane multiplied on a critical hit? I don't have my books and I can't remember.

The +2 increased enhancement to damage does the bonus dice do not.

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I just wanted to mention that a charge only provokes one AoO.

from d20pfsrd

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity

If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

So combat reflexes doesn't let you get 2 attacks in. Though I did make a human inquisitor with the feather domain that was built around triggering Attacks of Opportunity with my animal companion and various teamwork feats.

Regardless I'm not sure why your group feels they need a "tank". Unless your GM focuses on the first guy to enter combat and only him. Most games I've played in foes will run around any kind of tank character to stab that frail looking guy throwing out walls and fireballs.

If you do really want to play a "tank" though Inguisitor may not be the best choice. There are plenty of other classes with more durability and spell casting that could fill the role. A shifter focus druid can make a great melee and if your just looking at a way to soak up damage the summoner can toss expendable HP sacks at mobs all day.

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Edit: Argh, ninja'd

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Diction wrote:
d20pfsrd.com wrote:

d20pfsrd.com is not in any way remotely "official."

The PRD is the only "official" source (well besides the books of course.)

While we post "official" content, we also post "unofficial" content that has been converted from the 3.x edition of "that other game system" so for PFS play I'm almost certain none of that is legal.

Ah, that makes sense. I had wondered why only Infernal Healing and the Greater version were the only spells from the Gods & Magic book to make it onto various spell lists.

Although I will say that I had hoped otherwise.

Just to answer your other question. I can't speak for any unnamed spells but Infernal Healing was also in the new Inner Sea World Guide and the entry in that book adds the summoner, witch, and magus.

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TheLoneCleric wrote:
Just to make sure I'm doing my math here. The AP's are figured for 4 or 5 players on average? Because I'm looking at around 5 in my group.

Yeah they are figured for a party of 4, with 15 point buy, and moderate builds. (i.e. not optimized but not total crap)

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Archomedes wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Archomedes wrote:
I think the thread title is misleading and meant to provoke a reaction for attention to the rules question.
All of my threads are meant to provoke a reaction. If there was no reaction, there would be no replies to any of my threads. One must have interesting information in order to share it, otherwise, no one will give a damn and severe mechanics problems like this will never be delved into, much less fixed/solved/whatever.

Oh dear, I didn't realize which classes this loophole was really the best for. I had been looking at the sorcerer/wizard spell list...

The summoner and inquisitor are just a bit too good with this option. Also, Chelish bards with this option would replace armies.

Perhaps this loophole bears more attention than I thought it did.

Personally if I had any 6th level spell I could cast an infinite number of days I'd go with Mage's Lucubration. Effectively gives you infinite 1-5 level spells.

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Ravingdork wrote:

This is especially bad due to its limited range. You cannot maintain misfortune or similar abilities while cackling AND keeping your foes within 30 feet.

That is why it is functionally useless.

Naw, give your familiar a wondrous item that casts floating disk and a small chauffeur cap. Full-round actions on the go!

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Shifty wrote:
Joana wrote:
Only if you're running solo.

Which is sorta the point.

Doesn't seem 'right'.

While I love solo adventures and whole heartedly support them; this game is designed and balanced around teams of heroes, and a single round buff ending at the end of an initiative tick creates a lot of small balance issues.

I'll use Diviner's fortune from a divination wizard for an example.
Round 1: Wizard goes on a 20 and his fighter buddy goes on a 10. Wizard delays until initiative 10 and immediately puts diviner's fortune on the fighter. Fighter takes a full-attack action with a +5 on all his attacks.
Round 2: Fighter gets a second round of +5 attacks since it won't end until the end of the initiative tick. Wizard is free to act and the next round you can repeat this.

I know that's a really minor thing but enough minor things can build up to break balance. (And I think we can all agree that balance is tenuous at best in RPG's)

Though I am in the camp that I don't like the current ruling and wish there was an elegant and simple solution.

Liberty's Edge

So my group is about halfway through kingmaker and will be doing carrion crown shortly after. I'll be gm and lately I've been debating if I want to ban races with inherent dark vision. To compensate i'l be allowing non standard races. I just feel like darkvision will ruin a lot of the tension in the first ap.

I thought I'd toss this idea out and see how both gm's and plyers feel about such a ban.

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As Liz said they no longer print them. Though I was under the impression that taking the pdf to a print shop is okay by paizo and it would only cost a few dollars to have that print and bound for your players if you want a hard copy.

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#27 Don't over complicate your character. You can make a great character with toughness and improved initiative.

#28 Use multiple lines on your weapon sheet to represent the same attack using different feats, like power attack.

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vip00 wrote:


Quote:
3: Dismissal, Magic Circle and various other spells can one-shot or neutralize it.

--yes it can be banished/dismissed, but few things have that at their disposal, which combined with easily obtainable SR and being easy to resummon it's a poor counter - magic circle doesn't do squat. Reread eidolon base description

If banished how is a summoner gonna get his eidolon back without either becoming a sitting duck for a minute or have it be totally shut down by a circle of protection spell?

from d20pfsrd
Summon Eidolon:
You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally, except that it only remains with you for the duration of this spell. While summoned in this way, your eidolon cannot touch any creature warded by protection from evil or a similar effect and your eidolon can be sent back to its home plane by dispel magic.

If you cast this spell while your eidolon is already on your plane, this spell has no effect. This spell allows you to summon your eidolon even if it has been returned to its home plane due to damage.

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I've had this on pre-order for some time and would like to cancel it. Wish the book had released when I still had disposable income. :(

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nutritious_nutrias wrote:
My group and I are playing rise of the runelords and are on the 5th book (a level 14 adventure for 4 players), and constantly we get your butts handed to us.

I'm not sure how I failed that perception check, but I must applaud your ability to steal my derrière.

Liberty's Edge

For reference, from the d20pfsrd.

Sneak Attack:
Sneak Attack

If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

Surprise Round:
Surprise

When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you're surprised.

Determining Awareness

Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.

Determining awareness may call for Perception checks or other checks.

The Surprise Round

If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Unaware Combatants

Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

Flat-footed:
Flat-Footed

A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC and Combat Manuever Defense (CMD) (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat or Uncanny Dodge class ability.

Characters with Uncanny Dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat.

Invisibility:
Invisibility

The ability to move about unseen is not foolproof. While they can't be seen, invisible creatures can be heard, smelled, or felt.

Invisibility makes a creature undetectable by vision, including darkvision.

Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger's favored enemy and from sneak attacks.

A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack. It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). There are a number of modifiers that can be applied to this DC if the invisible creature is moving or engaged in a noisy activity.

Invisible creature is... Perception DC Modifier
In combat or speaking –20
Moving at half speed –5
Moving at full speed –10
Running or charging –20
Not moving +40 +20*
Using Stealth Stealth check +20
Some distance away +1 per 10 feet
Behind an obstacle (door) +5
Behind an obstacle (stone wall) +15* From unofficial Paizo board post by SKR (10/12/10)
A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature's current location. If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.

If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location.

If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has pinpointed, he attacks normally, but the invisible creature still benefits from full concealment(and thus a 50% miss chance). A particularly large and slow invisible creature might get a smaller miss chance.

If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has not pinpointed, have the player choose the space where the character will direct the attack. If the invisible creature is there, conduct the attack normally. If the enemy's not there, roll the miss chance as if it were there and tell him that the character has missed, regardless of the result. That way the player doesn't know whether the attack missed because the enemy's not there or because you successfully rolled the miss chance.

If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).

Invisible creatures leave tracks. They can be tracked normally. Footprints in sand, mud, or other soft surfaces can give enemies clues to an invisible creature's location.

An invisible creature in the water displaces water, revealing its location. The invisible creature, however, is still hard to see and benefits from concealment.

A creature with the scent ability can detect an invisible creature as it would a visible one.

A creature with the Blind-Fight feat has a better chance to hit an invisible creature. Roll the miss chance twice, and he misses only if both rolls indicate a miss. (Alternatively, make one 25% miss chance roll rather than two 50% miss chance rolls.)

A creature with blindsight can attack (and otherwise interact with) creatures regardless of invisibility.

An invisible burning torch still gives off light, as does an invisible object with a light or similar spell cast upon it.

Ethereal creatures are invisible. Since ethereal creatures are not materially present, Perception checks, scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don't help locate them. Incorporeal creatures are often invisible. Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don't help creatures find or attack invisible, incorporeal creatures, but Perception checks can help.

Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks.

Invisibility does not thwart divination spells.

Since some creatures can detect or even see invisible creatures, it is helpful to be able to hide even when invisible.

Stealth:
Stealth (Dex; Armor Check Penalty)

You are skilled at avoiding detection, allowing you to slip past foes or strike from an unseen position. This skill covers hiding and moving silently.
Check: Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.

A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Stealth checks depending on its size category: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal –16.

If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.

Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to allow you to use Stealth. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Stealth check while people are aware of you.

Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.

Special:

If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Stealth checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Stealth checks if you're moving.
If you have the Stealthy feat, you get a +2 bonus on all Stealth skill checks. If you have 10 or more ranks in Stealth, the bonus increases to +4.

Perception:
Perception (Wis)
Your senses allow you to notice fine details and alert you to danger. Perception covers all five senses, including sight, hearing, touch, taste, and smell.
Detail Perception DC
Hear the sound of battle –10
Notice the stench of rotting garbage –10
Detect the smell of smoke 0
Hear the details of a conversation 0
Notice a visible creature 0
Determine if food is spoiled 5
Hear the sound of a creature walking 10
Hear the details of a whispered conversation 15
Find the average concealed door 15
Hear the sound of a key being turned in a lock 20
Find the average secret door 20
Hear a bow being drawn 25
Sense a burrowing creature underneath you 25
Notice a pickpocket Opposed by Sleight of Hand
Notice a creature using Stealth Opposed by Stealth
Find a hidden trap Varies by trap
Identify the powers of a potion through taste 15 + the potion's caster level
Perception Modifiers DC Modifier
Distance to the source, object, or creature +1/10 feet
Through a closed door +5
Through a wall +10/foot of thickness
Favorable conditions1 –2
Unfavorable conditions1 +2
Terrible conditions2 +5
Creature making the check is distracted +5
Creature making the check is asleep +10
Creature or object is invisible +20
1 Favorable and unfavorable conditions depend upon the sense being used to make the check. For example, bright light might increase the DC of checks involving sight, while torchlight or moonlight might give a penalty. Background noise might reduce a DC involving hearing, while competing odors might penalize any DC involving scent.
2 As for unfavorable conditions, but more extreme. For example, candlelight for DCs involving sight, a roaring dragon for DCs involving hearing, and an overpowering stench covering the area for DCs involving scent.
Check: Perception has a number of uses, the most common of which is an opposed check versus an opponent's Stealth check to notice the opponent and avoid being surprised. If you are successful, you notice the opponent and can react accordingly. If you fail, your opponent can take a variety of actions, including sneaking past you and attacking you.

Perception is also used to notice fine details in the environment. The DC to notice such details varies depending upon distance, the environment, and how noticeable the detail is. The following table gives a number of guidelines.

Action: Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action.

Try Again: Yes. You can try to sense something you missed the first time, so long as the stimulus is still present.

Special: Elves, half-elves, gnomes, and halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks. Creatures with the scent special quality have a +8 bonus on Perception checks made to detect a scent. Creatures with the tremorsense special quality have a +8 bonus on Perception checks against creatures touching the ground and automatically make any such checks within their range.

A spellcaster with a hawk or owl familiar gains a +3 bonus on Perception checks. If you have the Alertness feat, you get a +2 bonus on Perception (and Sense Motive) checks.

I think that covers all the bases for the discussion. For the record my table rules that once combat has begun a rogue can snipe, flank, have invis, and others on a case by case basis.

The big reason for us on not allowing stealth melee in combat comes down to it's almost impossible for a rogue to approach an enemy in combat while maintaining cover or concealment. Once in a blue moon someone can manage to do this and that's when the case by case rulings come out.

Liberty's Edge

I'm getting ready for my Sunday game so I can't stat up a full build but I did want to throw out a frame of an idea.

Halfling rogue with Swift as Shadows and Stealthy Sniper. Throw in Sniper Goggles to make sneak attack from any range. Bleeding Attack to keep the pressure up since you'll only be making one attack per round. At 14 you'll be doing 7d6 sneak with 7 points of bleed. Attack from 240 feet away, putting you outside detect spells and true seeing and granting a +24 to your stealth check* for a -1 attack.

A couple spells to think about to have on scrolls or wands:
Reduce Person, +2 dex +1 attack and AC, +4 stealth all for -2 str is a pretty fair trade.
Chameleon Step, Cheap +4 stealth and concealment
Improved Invisibility if you're feeling dastardly.

I've seen debates on how Swift of Shadows and Stealthy Sniper interact. My table plays as if they stack. If yours doesn't replace halfling with goblin.

*Edit: I now it's actually a -24 to the opponents perception check but I interchange them since it yields the same result.

Liberty's Edge

therealthom wrote:

Ally:one that is associated with another as a helper

I don't read it that way. My allies are 'others' that are associated with me. You need three people ganging up to make this work.

According to the Paizo FAQ you do count as your own ally.

http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88yj/faq #v5748eaic9nda

Liberty's Edge

Damon Griffin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


I'm really not sure how listing a trap's XP in its stat block (which is what we do for EVERY trap in EVERY adventure we publish) isn't obvious enough, to be honest.

It wasn't obvious enough (to me) because my question wasn't "how many XP is a trap worth?"

But now that I have an authoritative answer on the designers' intent, I can move on to considering whether to houserule something different for situations where you merely survive. I expect I will, just because I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

Thanks, everyone.

If you ever have PC's setting of traps for free XP then just make traps that aren't "free". Once you've killed a few of them off with deadly traps you'll see them take traps seriously.

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