Fascism Alive and Well in 2012


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pres man wrote:
RedPorcupine wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
How much worse do you really think the world would have been if the Axis had won World War II?

A lot, believe me. The Nazi´s would never have run out of people to sent to the KZ´s.

As for a starting point: What if German had become the official language of the U.S. ? I read somewhere that it was a very close second, when the question was put to vote.

America doesn't have an official language. English (American) is the unofficial language, but we don't have an official language. Any time suggestions of making English the official language comes up people scream "racism!".

Well, some of us scream "First Amendment!" because it protects more than the right to swill beer and rant on the internet (no insult, talking about myself), but that's right, no official language in the US.

LEFTY WIN!!

Wait, $0.35 for a liter of beer?! Screw it, everyone was right, I do hate America, and don't deserve to live here, exile me to Belgrade.

...Please?


Smarnil le couard wrote:

You are not talking about "revisionist" history (whatever that may be, as history is history : it can be revised with the acquisition of new data, but "revisionist" history going against facts is best called BS), but of an uchronia here (a "what if" hypothesis, wondering what may have happened if history had taken another course from one point).

I never heard the word "uchronia" before, thank you. However, the phrase "hip to revisionist history" was used to slyly and subtly mock my fellow countrymen who think America is the bee's knees.

Smarnil le couard wrote:
What's the exact starting point? Did the USA got involved and soundly beaten on the normandy beaches, or did they stood neutral in your scenario?

I hadn't given it much thought. Defeated, definitely, but I personally don't think the USA was ever in any danger of being invaded. Your choice. Or both.


Al-Jazeera is pretty decent. That documentary Control Room was pretty good. I go to their website from time to time, but I don't necessarily trust them about everything. They were much too rah-rah about the recent imperialist rape of Libya.

As the founding chairman of the newly founded Blame America First Association, I would like to point out the blame that America plays in the rise of jihadist Islamic terrorism internationally. Back in the fifties, State Department dudes like George Kennan were writing about how Islam being a natural ally in the war against Communism. Hence, for example their investment in the House of Saud and, later, the Afghani mujahadeen. Israel similarly supported clerical-fascist groupings within the Palestinian diaspora in order to leech support away from the PLO. Western, including American, support for fundamentalists in the imperialist jacking of Libya might indicate that the supposed eternal War on Terror might be possibly conditional.


Does the BAFA accept noble-blooded members?


We honor those class-traitors who are willing to renounce their heritage. Welcome, Citizen Dice!


There's so much more to talk about, but I'm going to go watch some episodes of Rome to further flames my enmity against empires.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I'm going to go watch some episodes of Rome to further flames my enmity against empires.

That show was awesome. One day I'm going to host a toga party with that playing in the background all evening.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I'm going to go watch some episodes of Rome to further flames my enmity against empires.
That show was awesome. One day I'm going to host a toga party with that playing in the background all evening.

+100. Second best tv show ever. After The Wire.


FLAME ON!
Seriously, please don't think I endorse this. I entertain very serious doubts about this kind of study.


CunningMongoose wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I'm going to go watch some episodes of Rome to further flames my enmity against empires.
That show was awesome. One day I'm going to host a toga party with that playing in the background all evening.
+100. Second best tv show ever. After The Wire.

the wire? Feh. Nothing beats spartacus.


CunningMongoose wrote:

FLAME ON!
Seriously, please don't think I endorse this. I entertain very serious doubts about this kind of study.

Me too, but that is very possibly the best use I've ever seen of the Human Torch's catchphrase.


Hitdice wrote:
Well, some of us scream "First Amendment!"

Interesting, I have honestly never heard an argument against it based on the First Amendment. How would having an official national language (versus the current de facto one) used for government operations interfere with the freedom speech?

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
There's so much more to talk about, but I'm going to go watch some episodes of Rome to further flames my enmity against empires.

Listen to Billy Bragg's "A Pict Song" after, that will heighten the mood. It even mentions Rome...

...you horrible communist humanoid!


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
It should be noted that in Belgrade, a liter of beer cost the equivalent of about 35 cents U.S.

What about a liter of cola?


pres man wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
Well, some of us scream "First Amendment!"
Interesting, I have honestly never heard an argument against it based on the First Amendment. How would having an official national language (versus the current de facto one) used for government operations interfere with the freedom speech?

We don't have a national language here: it's never gone to the Supreme Court, but saying "los libros" rather than "the books" is a matter of preference, just like saying "I think the president is doing it wrong."

(Don't quote me, I am neither a lawyer nor a native spanish speaker.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Hitdice wrote:
CunningMongoose wrote:

FLAME ON!
Seriously, please don't think I endorse this. I entertain very serious doubts about this kind of study.

Me too, but that is very possibly the best use I've ever seen of the Human Torch's catchphrase.

Well, I though about "IT'S CLOBBERING TIME!" or "HULK SMASH" but I found them to be a little bit too aggressive.


Kryzbyn wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
It should be noted that in Belgrade, a liter of beer cost the equivalent of about 35 cents U.S.
What about a liter of cola?

Who cares? Seriously! ;-)


Super Troopers reference.

Who cares, indeed? :P


Kryzbyn wrote:

Super Troopers reference.

Who cares, indeed? :P

Ouch. That one flew so high over my head I could not have catched it even with a fly spell.


It's the subtle ones that are the best.


Kryzbyn wrote:
It's the subtle ones that are the best.

I tend to prefer strongly flavoured IPAs myself. Oh, wait, are we still talking about beer?


Freehold DM wrote:
the wire? Feh. Nothing beats spartacus.

Except Buffy.


Ugh, Sarah Michelle Geller vs naked Jaime Murray? Tough call to make, this is exactly why I used to keep a goblin kennel...


In the kennel, in the street, goblins do it everywhere!


CunningMongoose wrote:
Second best tv show ever. After The Wire.

Which is the bestest television program ever is, of course, up for debate, but The Wire is certainly the most on-topic.


Posting to gain a dot and keep track of thread easier. *Bows*


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
CunningMongoose wrote:
Second best tv show ever. After The Wire.
Which is the bestest television program ever is, of course, up for debate, but The Wire is certainly the most on-topic.

Thanks. Very nice read.


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slips outside to use payphone yes, hello council of unamerican activities? I have information on someone you've been looking for...

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
the wire? Feh. Nothing beats spartacus.
Except Buffy.


Aretas wrote:
Smarnil le couard wrote:

It 's a known fact that Serbs were not alone in the war crimes department. After the croatian war, two croat militias leaders were condemned by the TPIY (including the former croatian president Trudjman, posthumously), along with a big bunch of serbian leaders. No bosnian leader was ever convicted of such a thing.

But overall, you have got your facts wrong, again. The NATO bombardments (Operation Allied Force) were about the Kosovo war (in 1999), FOUR YEARS after the end of the bosnian war and the Srebrenica massacre, the worst slaughter of civilians since WW2 (in july of 1995). Slaughter which, incidentally, was witnessed by the NATO forces and

Where are your sources? Al Jazeera?

No. I don't have access to Al Jazeera, but wouldn't mind watching it if I could. It's an arab CNN, not an islamist/jihadist outlet, you know.

My sources on this point are mainstream media (Le Monde, primarily) for the chronology, and common sense for the conclusion : bombings made in 1999 (or in august 1995) can't be the cause of slaughters committed beforehand (the worst being the Srebrenica one, in july 1995).

And nothing can justify the slaughter of civilians. Srebrenica was a town full of refugees, under the protection of UN troops (blue helmets). THere was no combatants there.

Aretas wrote:

I'll just say your wrong, again.

Are you denying that Mujahideen were involved in Bosnia & Kosovo committing atrocities against the Serbian population?

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=348

Must see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-REROXvtg

That's the best source you have ever put forward, which is worth a tip of the hat.

May I just point out that this piece was written in november 2001, at a time when tempers were a little high strung (read : fully hysterical) and so is a little bit out of date ?

As nothing of the sort happened in the last eleven years, it seems that the fears that Kosovo would become a den of terrorists were misplaced, don't you think ?

I didn't watch the Youtube link, but will ASAP.

Aretas wrote:

I never said Srebrenica "massacre" was committed by Jihadist? Strangely I have read articles saying that Screbrenica was a center for Jihadist activity and they commited ethnic cleansing against the Serbian population by wiping out Serb villages. The Bosnian War was a series of pay backs and vendettas.

Listen to this for more propaganda from the US/British media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xss0Ep1MJM

In Kosovo in particular a lot of the massacres and killing were commited by the KLA (Albanians) against other Albanians.

Tid bit about the KLA terror organization.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/BIS111A.html

I'm glad you at least agree that the Srebrenica slaughter was committed by serbs.

I would gladly read your articles about Srebrenica being a "terrorist training ground", for a good laugh. See above for what it really was.

There was probably foreign combatants fighting both in Bosnia and in Kosovo against the serbs. Among them, it's very likely you had jihadists. People came there from everywhere, the same way that people flocked to Spain in '36 to fight in the International Brigades. So in the pack, you are sure to get some guys who were part of, or later joined Al Qaeda (which as the time wasn't even a terrorist org, but one of the good guys who helped oust the soviets from Afghanistan, remmber?). The Bosnians in particular weren't in a situation to be choosy about the help they got.

Leaping from this point to conclude that all bosnians/kosovars were islamists/djihadists scum worthy of extermination by serbian militias is stretching it very, very far beyond the breaking point.

There sure were war crimes all over the place, not ALL of them committed by serbs. So ? How what happened in Kosovo in 1999 would exonerate Serbia from the fact that it did invade Bosnia in 1995 after its declaration of independance, and did support serbian militias bent on extermination of other ethnic groups? How ANY slaughter of civilians could justify another ?

For the record, globalreserach.ca is a crackpot site full of conspiracy theories (one of which is that Milosevic as a misunderstood hero). It's quite funny to see you quote them, as they seem to be rabidly anti-american... Here is a (wiki)bio of the founder, Michel Chossudovsy.

Saving civilians from extermination (even muslim civilians, mind you. A life is a life) is one of the very few worthy goals of war. It was what motivated the NATO interventions in Bosnia, Kosovo, and more recently, in Lybia.

You should be proud that the USA got involved in such a humanitarian mission without any thought for gain or any ulterior motive (as far as I can tell).


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Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Smarnil le couard wrote:

You are not talking about "revisionist" history (whatever that may be, as history is history : it can be revised with the acquisition of new data, but "revisionist" history going against facts is best called BS), but of an uchronia here (a "what if" hypothesis, wondering what may have happened if history had taken another course from one point).

I never heard the word "uchronia" before, thank you. However, the phrase "hip to revisionist history" was used to slyly and subtly mock my fellow countrymen who think America is the bee's knees.

Smarnil le couard wrote:
What's the exact starting point? Did the USA got involved and soundly beaten on the normandy beaches, or did they stood neutral in your scenario?
I hadn't given it much thought. Defeated, definitely, but I personally don't think the USA was ever in any danger of being invaded. Your choice. Or both.

Well, we can start with the 1936 elections. The New Deal had still to produce strong results, so Roosevelt position was at its weakest.

If the Republicans had produced a strong contender (say, a war hero such as Lindbergh. Let say his baby didn't get kidnapped; so he didn't exile himself to Europe in 1935 and got involved in politics earlier).

Lindbergh being a strong admirer of Hitler (for his economic policies) and a rabid isolationist ("America first"), there is no lend-lease program to support UK. Anyway, as he cancelled the New Deal to come back to orthodox economical policies and cut down on government spendings, USA is a mess.

French generals still being ready for the previous war, as usual, invasion of western Europe goes the same way it did. The RAF is broken during the battle of England without the US support (as it was very close to be, historically). Operation Seelowe is enacted and succeeds. German troops parade on Picadilly Circus (round and round).

Your turn...


Thank you Comrade Le Couard (and everybody else!) for your thoughtful reply, but I have decided to abandon this particular thought experiment.
I feel bad, though, leaving you all hanging, so here's an awesome video that may or may not be apropos, but is certainly more entertaining than my labored prose and cynical Weltschmerz. (Hee hee!--new vocab words rock!)


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Kryzbyn wrote:
What about a liter of cola?

"I don't even know what that is!"


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

I don't actually speak German--or anything other than English.

As the old joke goes: three languages--trilingual; two languages--bilingual; one language--American.

well, there's a reason for that. I need to drive for 8 hours to reach a place where something other than english is even AN alternate official language, and my state BORDERS canada. The US is freaking huge. In europe popping over to another country to go shopping can be done as a day trip or on a weekend. In the vast majority of the us you 1) need to plan a weeks vacation at least 2) When you arrive, the people there will already know english far better than you'll know their language.

It isn't emphasized in America because its much harder to use or put into practice.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Well, there's a reason for that. I need to drive for 8 hours to reach a place where something other than English is even AN alternate official language, and my state BORDERS Canada.

The US is freaking huge. In Europe popping over to another country to go shopping can be done as a day trip or on a weekend.

*Reads BigNorseWolf's post* >_>

Pffft! That's not a State

Now this! This is a State!

(^_~)


Smarnil le couard wrote:
Aretas wrote:
Stuff and more stuff about the Balkans

It amuses me to post a link to communist propaganda that somewhat sides with Citizen Aretas against Comrade Le Couard, although, of course, only in some particulars.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Smarnil le couard wrote:
Aretas wrote:
Stuff and more stuff about the Balkans
It amuses me to post a link to communist propaganda that somewhat sides with Citizen Aretas against Comrade Le Couard, although, of course, only in some particulars.

Every contribution is welcome, Comrade Gobbo, including ones that doesn't go in my way. :)

That said, I am not ruffled by the position exprimed in that article, as I believe that ALL war criminals should be prosecuted. I said earlier that no bosnian leader were convicted by the TPIY : I must add that at least some of them went under scrutiny. I couldn't say if their cases were closed because they weren't conclusive, or because of supposed political pressure applied on the TPIY. I can just point out that there has been clashes between the TPIY and various governments, and that the former usually did as it pleased. The head "Procureur" Carla Da Ponte (=DA) was a quite strong headed woman.

For history buffs : Serbia was the main ally of France in the Balkans during WW1, and was on the allied side during WW2. Historical ties between Serbia and France are strong, but it didn't and shouldn't matter : "ethnical cleansing" or any other genocidal policy can't be tolerated and must be dealt with ASAP by the international community. It was what was done conjointly by NATO under UN mandate, and was so much more warranted than some other war that-is-not-to-be-named...

EDIT : here is a (somewhat outdated) list of IPIY indictees, with ethnicity and sentence, if any. On 161 guys, you have got 91 serbs, 29 croats, 9 bosniaks and 9 albanians (kosovars). It shows that some bosniaks do have been convicted for war crimes. Oops for me, and hurrah for international justice !

TPIY was an "ah hoc" juridiction, with a narrow focus (on the Nuremberg model), and so subject to criticism as being a "court of the victors". So, the International Crime Court was created in 2002 to investigate and punish war crimes committed by ANY nation. Incidentally, USA are the only occidental state not being a member (that is, not willing to submit itself to its juridiction)...


Smarnil le couard wrote:
Incidentally, USA are the only occidental state not being a member (that is, not willing to submit itself to its jurisdiction)...

Oh, gee, I wonder why...


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Smarnil le couard wrote:
Incidentally, USA are the only occidental state not being a member (that is, not willing to submit itself to its jurisdiction)...
Oh, gee, I wonder why...

...Cause we're obviously such an inherently decent nation that there's no point? Hm? Well, I always thought of my glasses as red, but I suppose you could call them rose-colored, why?


Hitdice wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Smarnil le couard wrote:
Incidentally, USA are the only occidental state not being a member (that is, not willing to submit itself to its jurisdiction)...
Oh, gee, I wonder why...
...Cause we're obviously such an inherently decent nation that there's no point? Hm? Well, I always thought of my glasses as red, but I suppose you could call them rose-colored, why?

That and all the anti-American countries out there would just use it as a forum to attack brave American soldiers and politicians who were just trying to make the world a better place.

Spoiler:
Is that obvious enough or do I need a snark tag. It's so hard to tell these days.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

And, hee hee! My hetero life partner has been raving about this stuff for the past six years now! He's always going on about The Book of Enoch, and how Jared Diamond is wrong because he doesn't take into account the fact that Gilgamesh was an alien, etc., etc., ad nauseam.

He tried to make me read some books by Erich von Daniken, but I couldn't take it!

Black Goblin, what do you think about Jesus being an alien?


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

And, hee hee! My hetero life partner has been raving about this stuff for the past six years now! He's always going on about The Book of Enoch, and how Jared Diamond is wrong because he doesn't take into account the fact that Gilgamesh was an alien, etc., etc., ad nauseam.

He tried to make me read some books by Erich von Daniken, but I couldn't take it!

Black Goblin, what do you think about Jesus being an alien?

Hahahahahaaa The Black Goblin now only has 1 beer left. Aliens and Gods and Masters I only have 1 Me The Black Goblin and his many anarchogoblin Brothers and sister shout to the heavens OFF WITH THEIR HEADS and maybe jesus was a alien but so was Jimi Hendrix!!!!!!!!

Its going to be all right


Did you know that the government assassinated Jimi Hendrix with a time machine? It's true, the Black Goblin told me so.

Link contains unpleasant pictures, be warned!


Fun essay by Gore Vidal led me to this informative chart.

Enjoy!


In an attempt to revivify one of my favorite threads, please allow me to further troll Comrade Le Couard.

From 100 Decisions That Would Have Spawned An Alternate History:

Elk Island wrote:

440. Some Mexican soldiers walk past a pastry shop in Mexico owned by a French baker rather than damaging it. As a result The Pastry War is avoided.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

In an attempt to revivify one of my favorite threads, please allow me to further troll Comrade Le Couard.

From 100 Decisions That Would Have Spawned An Alternate History:

Elk Island wrote:

440. Some Mexican soldiers walk past a pastry shop in Mexico owned by a French baker rather than damaging it. As a result The Pastry War is avoided.

Ah, souvenirs...

We were so fond of invading Mexico at the time. The sun, the beaches, all the senoritas...

Thanks a lot for your continued attention, comrade. As a fellow member of a vertically challenged race, I appreciate the thought. This one rate as one of the most improbable casus belli I have ever heard of.


What does your name mean, btw, Comrade Le Couard?


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
What does your name mean, btw, Comrade Le Couard?

"Couard" means "coward". I took my handle from an old character of mine, an halfling thief (1st edition) who liked, well, fight and coordinate his buddies from the rear.

[I am currently watching our beloved president talking on the TV. He is so deep in the polls (40/60 against him) that he is getting into full pork-barrel politics mode. Just promised AGAIN to moralize the financial markets. ROFL.].

Shadow Lodge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

I don't actually speak German--or anything other than English.

As the old joke goes: three languages--trilingual; two languages--bilingual; one language--American.

Americans have an excuse. In Europe, your neighbors are on reletively equal footing, so it's useful to have more than one language to talk to your neighbors. In America, neighbors who don't speak English die from smallpox, malaria, and all sorts of interesting diseases. After a couple centuries there is less need to be bilingual.


Smarnil le couard wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
What does your name mean, btw, Comrade Le Couard?
"Couard" means "coward". I took my handle from an old character of mine, an halfling thief (1st edition) who liked, well, fight and coordinate his buddies from the rear.

Really? I thought it had to do with what many Americans think of the French military (Not me, mind you. I respect the French armed forces.).


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::mutters blasphemous phrases of the foulest necromancy::

ARISE!

So I came across an interesting article on American facism and the rise of the surveillance state...

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