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I have always had issues with the idea of magic item shops, but after actually reading the rules (had to happen sooner or later) I find they aren't bad as I had figured they would be.
So I have been applying RAW, meaning the 75% of finding an item of X gp value or less depending on the size of the community. Some of my players have begun noticing that the base value is actually not that high - and given my home brew setting the largest community (they know of) is only Large City scale, meaning a base gp value of 8,000 gp. The fighter is complaining that means he has only a 75% change of getting a +2 weapon from this city.
I feel I'm just applying the rules as presented and don't have to change a thing, whereas 2 of 5 players want the gp value restriction removed because it limits their ability to 'choose' their magic items to meet there optimization requirements.
Players are only 4th level so not a huge issue yet.
Should I remove the limit? I personally, as GM, like the limit.
What do other people do?
S.
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I personally, as GM, like the limit.
That's all the answer you need. Besides, if only 2 out of 5 are complaining then they're outvoted.
Besides, +2 weapons at level 4 are just silly. you shouldn't even be thinking about +2 until level 6.
My initial reaction is no - optimising is about building a character within the constraints of the rules. If there are explicit rules about availability of particular items then optimising should include operating within those rules. Objecting to that kind of sounds to me like "I can't give my PC the stats I want with only 20 points, how about making it 30?"
Having said that, my usual approach as DM is to try and give the players what they want. Therefore, I'd suggest basing your decision, at least partly, on what the other three players think. Do they just not care? Or do they agree with you that a limit makes sense?
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Well, keep in mind, that's just the "magic item shop." RAW also says each community will have a certain number of more expensive items available, so that's one thing to keep in mind; they can also still get NPCs to make things custom for them, without going through a magic item shop (which, I believe, represents items "on hand.")
If they're complaining because they can't get the perfect items for uber-optimization, tell them that the game has already provided a source for those items - it's called Craft Wondrous Item.
(That said, as DM, it's probably a good idea to ask for "wish lists" from your players, and include some of those things in your encounter treasures.)
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You're the dm, it's your world. If, however, it bothers the players too much, you won't have anyone playing in it.
Perhaps what you should do is reassure the players in question that, despite the lack of any larger-sized towns, they will have other options for magical items.
Personally, I sympathize with them. Pathfinder is built around the concept that at each level the party will increase in power through wealth. Sometimes a character concept requires a specific item or enchantment to be effective. Players who like to plan out their entire character will be looking forward to getting another +1 on their weapon, or a bonus +1 to their ac. Finding out that they won't be able to find a city large enough to automatically supply them with certain items can be very frustrating, especially if it's been done differently in previous games and they weren't informed of the change ahead of time.
But, again, it comes down to trust. If your players don't trust that they'll have the items they need available to them, then a little reassurance could help. And if it's a dealbreaker for them, and a dealbreaker for you, then perhaps you should ask one of them if they'd like to try their hand at dm'ing instead.
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If they want something over the gp limit or that doesn't make the 75% roll, my players can either commission the item (if there's an NPC craftsman of sufficient level) and wait for it to be built, or they can do some research or gather some information about where a specific item like they want is to be found (or where a sufficiently-skilled crafter lives), which will generally lead to a quest rather than just a shopping trip.
I think it is completely reasonable your approach. I do not thinkg the players should have access to anything they want. I personally find th 75% availability way too high. But I am from the school of thought that magic should be somewhat rare and magic items difficult to come by. Do not underestimate the value of the side quest for magic item.
My old DM was great about handling this. We never found a ye ole magic shop but the general store might have 3 random items under glass or by appointment only stock. I always liked that more than hi welcome to Magic R' Us were running a special to day on magic bows, any bow enchanted to +2 or higher comes with a free everfull quiver of endless +1 arrows.
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Should I remove the limit?Not necessarily, but at higher levels you will be left with only a couple of options if you don't :
- satisfy your player's wishlists with drops (not that bad an option)
- wait for them to craft the stuff they want (might be troublesome if the campaign has any time pressure whatsoever giving the time it takes at higher levels)
- get some very unhappy martial characters
It is the higher levels the optimizers are look towards, they are happy now, but the 8,000 gp limit and only a small random change of the other available items being the ones they want they are complaining about issues down the track as you note. For me I would be happy with (a) someone in the group takes up Magic Item creation or (b) they accept that some items will require 'questing' rather than simply buying from the corner shop.
Thanks for the comments.
You could have the items be not available in gold but have someone with a powerful item end up using it as a quest reward if it is an item they cannot use well.
edit- you should also make a lower limit for items they could find more often or even make a tiered system for lower items.
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Also if they are really adamant about having any specific item they can seek out high level NPCs and have those items commissioned or take the Item Crafting feats themselves.
I think my advice is to tell your players to trust that you won't use the rules to screw them, but will use the rules to challenge them to think and play creatively.
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Does your world just not have any metropoli? (Not that metropoli completely solve the problem, of course, since they still have their own GP limits.)
Yes their is one. I tend to use home brew campaigns when starting players from first level. Using pre-made settings give PC's an unrealistic overview of the lands their characters would no little or nothing about. Spoils the 'what the hell' moments as they explore.
S.
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Trust me the item creation feats will be more trouble than they're worth based on prior forum posts I'd be inclined to bet you'd just end up in an argument or extremely half assed adventuring because they need to spend 18 days making a +3 item 4 times per person for 4 people and you stiffed the caster with 3 s@%$ty feats because the martials sure aren't going to take it but if they don't get the benefit they'll probably pitch a fit over the caster having better stuff than them.It is the higher levels the optimizers are look towards, they are happy now, but the 8,000 gp limit and only a small random change of the other available items being the ones they want they are complaining about issues down the track as you note. For me I would be happy with (a) someone in the group takes up Magic Item creation or (b) they accept that some items will require 'questing' rather than simply buying from the corner shop.
Thanks for the comments.
If it's just a time issue then no problem, most of my group come from 1e and still can't believe you just 'ding' while adventuring!
As for 'feat tax', IF magic items are so important and using the rules not so easy to just go buy, then I see the person doing the creation as having a very central role. Just because you aren't dishing out MOAR DOMARGE in combat doesn't mean you are not useful - at least in my campaigns.
Now if the item creation feats are truly broken - then I have a problem.
S.
It is the higher levels the optimizers are look towards, they are happy now, but the 8,000 gp limit and only a small random change of the other available items being the ones they want they are complaining about issues down the track as you note. For me I would be happy with (a) someone in the group takes up Magic Item creation or (b) they accept that some items will require 'questing' rather than simply buying from the corner shop.
I hear your woes. The trouble is that 8k is a drop in the bucket. In a few levels, most/all of your PCs are going to have a healthy thirst for a wide variety of goods. There's going to be a fighter who is looking for a particular armor type with a particular enchantment level better than what they've got but within their budget. Same for weapon. Then the rogue's going to want his armor that doesn't impede his schtick, plus whatever specialty weapons he's focused on. The cleric's going to have armor expectations, weapon expectations. The wizard's going to want staves and wands and scrolls and pearls and all kinds of goodies that get the job done.
What I'm saying is that questing won't be really practical given the volume of crap your PCs are going to be looking for. Sure, you can tell your fighter's player to suck it up and wear the banded mail that was found as treasure instead of the full plate he's always envisioned his character getting into. But why?
At some point along the line I gave up and made the assumption that if someone's got metric butt-tonnes of money (and let's face it, thousands of gold pieces is a LOT of coin), someone somewhere will find a way to get them whatever they want. It might take a few days for a merchant to get his hands on something exotic, but if you're willing to drop tens of thousands of gold on something, it stands to reason it's going to be found.
I don't think of magic shops like a grocery store. I think of it more like a drug dealer. Sure, he's probably got a few "samples" of the more common items around, but if you're looking for a 500 pound statue of Desna, made out of flyleaf... well... "I know this guy who I'll see if he has any ideas."
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On the other hand, when you're talking about an item that's worth that many thousands of GP, it's quite likely that the item just doesn't exist yet - and even if it does, it doesn't necessarily exist in this town, even if "this town" is Absalom itself. Which just means you need to make it yourself or get somebody to make it for you, not that it doesn't exist at all.
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Well it sounds like your something of an Old School Renaissance GM... meaning the PCs have to deal with items they find while adventuring. That being said you should meet your PCs halfway.
I like having my PCs give me a wishlist at the beginning of the campaign listing either their top 5 favorite items OR a minor, medium, and major item that thematically fits the type of character they are or their characters personality and "story" within the campaign.
The 2nd method combined with the fact you're being stingy about buying items (which fits a grittier world playstyle) can be an incentive for the players to immerse themselves into the world your painting.
Allow them the chance to hear rumors of their wishlist items in the hoard of a dragon or in the possession of a far off warlord. Tie it to an adventure arc and make them earn it!
--Vrock bottom pricing!
One thing I do when I run things is I allow 'upgrading' of specific items a lot more easily accessed than it would otherwise be...
i.e. you can pretty much guarantee in any reasonably large settlement that you can get your +1 weapon enhanced to +2, or a belt from +2 to +4 etc.
Then the items you can find already made in a city can be more along the lines of interesting/unique gear, but the players won't have to worry about the more basic things. (For example, if you get to high levels without ever having access to a Cloak Of Resistance it will make a pretty big difference on how you can perform in CR-appropriate encounters; this way if you even find a Cloak of Resistance +1 somewhere along the line you know you can be pretty much set as long as you can get somewhere fairly populated to upgrade it)
YMMV of course
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The crafting approach only works if the majority of loot they gain on adventures is in the form of magic items. Then they can sell an item for half price and craft an item for half price. No wealth escalation.
If they get a lot of cash loot then they are on a wealth escalator with crafting - get cash and craft for half price effectively doubling their wealth in items - unless you scale back the cash to half what it would otherwise be.
The other issue is that craft wondrous item makes many different core items usable by everyone so the caster may not mind taking that feat and crafting stuff for himself as well as for others. However unless he is a martial caster (Magus, Cleric?) he may baulk at taking craft magic arms and armor as a wizard/Sorceror gets no personal benefit from that feat.
It still leaves the items outside of the core crafting feats - things like Rods and Rings which are likely too narrow to take as crafting feats but for which there are some core items e.g. Ring of protection.
Outside of feats they need to patronise and develop (and protect) an NPC crafter to support them.
One thing I do when I run things is I allow 'upgrading' of specific items a lot more easily accessed than it would otherwise be...
i.e. you can pretty much guarantee in any reasonably large settlement that you can get your +1 weapon enhanced to +2, or a belt from +2 to +4 etc.Then the items you can find already made in a city can be more along the lines of interesting/unique gear, but the players won't have to worry about the more basic things. (For example, if you get to high levels without ever having access to a Cloak Of Resistance it will make a pretty big difference on how you can perform in CR-appropriate encounters; this way if you even find a Cloak of Resistance +1 somewhere along the line you know you can be pretty much set as long as you can get somewhere fairly populated to upgrade it)
YMMV of course
Allowing upgrading with limited magic shops is a good idea.
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I would ask myself how big a focus I want magic items to be in my game.
If, for example, you want them to go after the items you want on quests, that will take up a significant amount of story telling time. Is that the type of quest that you find fun? (for me the answer is no, I want quests that are the focus, not items that are the focus)
Do you want to spend a bunch of in game time searching for NPCs who can craft the items you want?
Do you want the players to decide it will be best to spend their time leaving the area you have set your campaign and search the world for a bigger city?
Do you want to encourage the casters to become crafters? Including asking or taking large sums of down time to craft?
Do you want your players to make decisions about what class to play based on how gear dependent that class is?
If the answer to those is yes, that IS what you want to focus on in game, then I wouldn't let up at all.
Sean
I have always had issues with the idea of magic item shops, but after actually reading the rules (had to happen sooner or later) I find they aren't bad as I had figured they would be.
So I have been applying RAW, meaning the 75% of finding an item of X gp value or less depending on the size of the community. Some of my players have begun noticing that the base value is actually not that high - and given my home brew setting the largest community (they know of) is only Large City scale, meaning a base gp value of 8,000 gp. The fighter is complaining that means he has only a 75% change of getting a +2 weapon from this city.
I feel I'm just applying the rules as presented and don't have to change a thing, whereas 2 of 5 players want the gp value restriction removed because it limits their ability to 'choose' their magic items to meet there optimization requirements.
Players are only 4th level so not a huge issue yet.
Should I remove the limit? I personally, as GM, like the limit.
What do other people do?
S.
You could put them in a real backwoods area, a large territory, a place needing of heroes, like say eastern to southern Isger or the Shoanti lands. If you are out on the frontier there is no magic shops around, no large settlements, no accounting/optimisation, no magic item shopping. Problem solved.
If they want good items, get out there and get into the dungeons/castles/ruins. I really don't like the idea of magic shops being always close, and the desperation to shop and always optimise one's magic item load-out being in the player's eyes. The game can fall away and have to wait for the optimisation, for the players to browse ye olde magic item shoppe and pick exactly what they want.
Make them earn their items, give them good stuff, don't let them buy it. If they need to trade a lot of gathered stuff for coin and supplies, have a guarded caravan go through.
I have always had issues with the idea of magic item shops, but after actually reading the rules (had to happen sooner or later) I find they aren't bad as I had figured they would be.
So I have been applying RAW, meaning the 75% of finding an item of X gp value or less depending on the size of the community. Some of my players have begun noticing that the base value is actually not that high - and given my home brew setting the largest community (they know of) is only Large City scale, meaning a base gp value of 8,000 gp. The fighter is complaining that means he has only a 75% change of getting a +2 weapon from this city.
I feel I'm just applying the rules as presented and don't have to change a thing, whereas 2 of 5 players want the gp value restriction removed because it limits their ability to 'choose' their magic items to meet there optimization requirements.
Players are only 4th level so not a huge issue yet.
Should I remove the limit? I personally, as GM, like the limit.
What do other people do?
S.
Firstly, this is one of the reasons that I tend to discuss games with the impression that the best items you are guaranteed to get is a +2 weapon, +3 armor, +4 stat item, +4 resistance item, etc. Everything else either needs to be crafted or quested to achieve.
Secondly, I think that you are doing a fine job. The item limits are there for several reasons, and I think that following the RAW here is not only practical, but reflects really well on you. Meanwhile, no 4th level character needs higher than a +2 item. In fact, I'd be happy with a few +2 weapons at 10th level. To really be optimized, they'd be better off using a variety of lower level items, potions, etc.
However, remember that in addition to the common fare for each town, there are a number of additional magic items available that aren't necessarily the norm. These can be regenerated periodically (maybe once per week, half month, or month in-game) to see what items are flowing through the economy and what they're being replaced with. This can open up a bit of excitement in your games, as a good random generation creates a great excitement when something particularly nice gets generated (and might even lead to side-quests to try and make enough to get it if you're a bit short).
To drastically speed up item generation, I highly recommend This generator that will, with a click of a button, generate all the magic items available in a community beyond the usual fare, and can even be told to include intelligent items, APG items, etc.
The GMG, and the CRB have slightly different rules for what is available. If it is only one player being annoyed I would figure they can deal with it for now, and they are only 4th level so it not like they are stuck there forever. Now if they are level 11, and stuck with such a limit I would have to agree with them.
I'm not sure if the OP is simply rolling dice to see if something is available based on the % chance guidelines or not, but if so, that's probably not the way I would do it. What I do with my magic shops is ask myself what is reasonable for a town of that size and if something is not available there, the shop owner can frequently order it from a larger town for a fee. Sometimes the item may not be available at all, but that would rarely be the case for anything that a character truly needed to be competitive.
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To drastically speed up item generation, I highly recommend This generator that will, with a click of a button, generate all the magic items available in a community beyond the usual fare, and can even be told to include intelligent items, APG items, etc.
Thanks for that, really helpful. These same persons are those who complained about a 15 point buy for stats also. I should have seen this coming :)
Thanks for all the replies - I'll stick with RAW and see about throwing a few things their way during adventures.
Regards,
S.
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I'm not sure if the OP is simply rolling dice to see if something is available based on the % chance guidelines or not, but if so, that's probably not the way I would do it. What I do with my magic shops is ask myself what is reasonable for a town of that size and if something is not available there, the shop owner can frequently order it from a larger town for a fee. Sometimes the item may not be available at all, but that would rarely be the case for anything that a character truly needed to be competitive.
The OP is indeed getting out the d4 and on 1-3 the item asked for by the player under the gp value is available. I even get the player to roll.
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Since the game is built on the assumption that a PC will spend no more than 25% of his wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective gear, and the other 50% on mundane gear and miscellaneous magical items, that large city with an 8,000gp limit should satisfy all their needs until level 8 (33,000gp).
If a PC wishes to start being a crafter, I would suggest giving him/her Craft Anywhere and Fast Item Creation for free. This will let the PC put in 8hrs of work and 2,000gp a day no matter where they are, greatly reducing the downtime for PCs.
If the money issue is making your PCs unhappy, I would suggest looking into legacy items or inherent bonuses.
Downtime doesn't really matter most of the time. Time is rather subjective in an RPG.
Had a player who could wait for their composite bow to be made before nipping off on an adventure - they came back one level higher, but that didn't negate the requirement for the bow long term.
S.
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I'm not sure if the OP is simply rolling dice to see if something is available based on the % chance guidelines or not, but if so, that's probably not the way I would do it. What I do with my magic shops is ask myself what is reasonable for a town of that size and if something is not available there, the shop owner can frequently order it from a larger town for a fee. Sometimes the item may not be available at all, but that would rarely be the case for anything that a character truly needed to be competitive.The OP is indeed getting out the d4 and on 1-3 the item asked for by the player under the gp value is available. I even get the player to roll.
Well, that's by RAW I suppose but I wouldn't allow capricious dice to determine if a player could get an amulet of natural armor or a Ring of Protection. Just too common, it makes no sense that one wouldn't be available in a reasonably sized town.
I guess I have too many memories of my original version wizards rolling badly on learning a new spell only to NEVER be able to learn that spell just because of a crappy dice roll at the wrong time. I tend to do everything I can to avoid having one bad die roll ruin a player's fun.
Well, keep in mind, that's just the "magic item shop." RAW also says each community will have a certain number of more expensive items available, so that's one thing to keep in mind; they can also still get NPCs to make things custom for them, without going through a magic item shop (which, I believe, represents items "on hand.")
If they're complaining because they can't get the perfect items for uber-optimization, tell them that the game has already provided a source for those items - it's called Craft Wondrous Item.
(That said, as DM, it's probably a good idea to ask for "wish lists" from your players, and include some of those things in your encounter treasures.)
Well, you might find this interesting . . .I was going to run a campaign AFTER a major war but the players said no, they want to participate, even warned that the country is beggared by the War Effort.
Essentially, for magic items, the top values are half and the occurance is half. If you want some cool armor/sword/weapon, you have to get it made or loot it off a Bad Guy. Oh, all normal prices are double.
I find the idea of making your own items to be reasonable. I know it costs a feat slot, but it allows a lot of latitude in the game, especially if its a long slog or items are simply unavailable.
If I were asked about about a Wish List, I would want a Tome of Invention that allows me Craft Wondrous Item as a free feat, but I tend to be a free thinker.
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Since the game is built on the assumption that a PC will spend no more than 25% of his wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective gear, and the other 50% on mundane gear and miscellaneous magical items, that large city with an 8,000gp limit should satisfy all their needs until level 8 (33,000gp).
That'd be fine if that were actually the assumption the game makes. It's not though.
You're thinking of the rules for starting a new character at higher level. And even there, the spread you listed is for a more "balanced" approach. The section there allows for up to 50% of the wealth of a character to be spent on one item.
And again, that's only at creation. Post creation, characters can spend all their money on weapons, or armor, or consumables.
Just too common, it makes no sense that one wouldn't be available in a reasonably sized town.Made sense to Jason and crew at Paizo ;)
I bet you'd be surprised if you asked them about such common items. Rules like that are just a way to make a shortcut for people who don't want to take the trouble to figure out what would be in a shop by themselves. I might even use those rules for something unusual. But for +1 arrows?
Puh-leeeze.
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Just too common, it makes no sense that one wouldn't be available in a reasonably sized town.Made sense to Jason and crew at Paizo ;)I bet you'd be surprised if you asked them about such common items. Rules like that are just a way to make a shortcut for people who don't want to take the trouble to figure out what would be in a shop by themselves. I might even use those rules for something unusual. But for +1 arrows?
Puh-leeeze.
I'm having enough issues having a 'store' at all! This allows me to gain a bit of old school DM satisfaction in thwarting the players every desire, rather than being Apu of the Magic-Item Kwik-E-Mart...
Think it comes down to our DMing origins - this new fangled d20 system, ever since it came out all these damn kids have been all over my lawn!
My 1e AD&D 16th level Magic-User (Mage officially) dreamed of a +2 protection ring - the hours spent slaying hapless creatures with the right treasure type (while avoiding those with type H) and rolling that dice "Come on, daddy needs a new freak'n ring!". Ah, those were the days.
What excellent ideas proudgeek.
To drastically speed up item generation, I highly recommend This generator that will, with a click of a button, generate all the magic items available in a community beyond the usual fare, and can even be told to include intelligent items, APG items, etc.Thanks for that, really helpful. These same persons are those who complained about a 15 point buy for stats also. I should have seen this coming :)
Thanks for all the replies - I'll stick with RAW and see about throwing a few things their way during adventures.
Regards,
S.
15 Point Buy is all my tabletop group uses. They kick soooo much butt. Of course, these are also players who aren't scrounging for the next +1, but instead are diversifying themselves. For example, when was the last time you saw anyone use an elemental gem? They're pretty expensive for a consumable, at 2,250 gp. But they summon a large elemental for 11 rounds. Those things are bad ass. Many has been a battle that would have been very difficult if not for the Fighter whippin' out his pokeball and summoning Gojira teh Earth Elemental to "Hulk SMASH!" everything in sight with its big reach, damage reduction 5/-, pair of +14 attacks that deal 2d6+7 damage each. :P
They're also big on using potions and such. Man, most of my players are wielding +1 effective weapons half the time before 2nd level, because of oils of magic weapon being a mere 50 gp. Go to your local apothecary and stock up on those, enlarge person, and similarly useful potions. Lead blade and gravity bow are also popular oils they will pick up. Believe me, the big bad popping protection from arrows is going to be horribly disappointed when the martial pops an enlarge person, and all three of his allies use their action to apply oils to his bow. Ok, in one turn, you have the warrior who is enlarged, with a +1 gravity bow and lead bladed glaive. Yikes! Get the heck out of there BBEG, they are going to kills j00!
They're also good about using tactics and every little thing to their advantage. One of the spellcasters carries around a heavy wooden shield, and when they are in combat, he will drop prone behind his allies. Being behind his allies grants him a +4 cover bonus vs ranged attacks, being prone grants an additional +4, then when he's not casting, he will draw his shield as a move action and total defense, for another +4 and +4 to his AC (we have a house rule that makes large shields +4 instead of +2). That's a net gain of +16 AC vs incoming ranged attacks! And if they're in large grass or something, then they also get 20-50% concealment!
One of my players has also amused me with a psionic build that essentially just refuses to die. He's playing an Elan Egoist that revolves around burning his energy to keep his health up, or to gain bonuses to saves. He's using an Elan-specific feat from the 3.5 Complete Psionic which allows him to burn power points to negate 4 damage per point or get a +8 racial bonus to a saving throw. Meanwhile, most of his powers revolve around sharing damage, gaining temporary hit points, or punishing you for attacking him, and a few humorous mind-control effects (he uses deja vu to force enemies to attempt the same actions they did last turn, so he will make foes waste actions trying to re-draw their weapons, trying to charge when they can't, or even trying to re-cast buff spells :P). At 5th level, that boy could get hit by a crashing airplane and walk away from the crater. He's not exceptionally good at killing things (though he does fine), but his endurance is just so amazing! :D
They're the type of players who will drop a smokestick if surrounded by rogues, since they know that 20% concealment will prevent all incoming sneak attacks. Meanwhile, the ranger uses a cloak that allows him to turn invisible for up to 30 rounds per day to burst on the scene, snipe some stuff up, then run away, before rinsing and repeating.
The last several games my group was in, at least one of them was packin' good amounts of alchemist fire, and broke through a group of orc skeletons who were armed and armored to the teeth, and were tearing their group apart (1st level, tight spaces, enemies with AC of about 24-25), but killed them with the splash damage form the alchemist fires (the skeletons only had 4 Hp :P).
Ahhh, yes, lovely lovely 15 PB. I love my group. ^.^
EDIT: Also if you're having BBEG troubles and your party is curbstomping your encounters, using that "Everybody give that guy a potion!" thing works for bad guys too! Man, what did those big bads ever do without that small army of CR 1/4 mooks sloshing him with all manner of potions!
To see an example of this in action, check out this graphical representation of our games, from 5:49 and beyond. :P
Exactly. I've seen a player try to pull that. I tried to be understanding, but clear. "You know this is a low magic game, of course you couldn't start with all your magic item slots filled."
He pouted a bit, we moved on.
Well low magic also means less headbands of intellect, rings of protection, cloaks of resistance and other items spellcasters love to load up on to protect themselves.
Well low magic also means less headbands of intellect, rings of protection, cloaks of resistance and other items spellcasters love to load up on to protect themselves.
Pfft. It's not like they need those, and if they want them, they can actually craft them themselves unless you change the campaign to not allow item creation with your own effort and feats.
But really, why do spellcasters need those things? I mean, if it's low magic, then, they don't need big buffs for their DCs since there's no huge resistance mods floating around. Without magic items, a competent spellcaster will steamroll martial creatures anyway.
Clerics are especially attractive in low-magic games, 'cause they don't even need high Wisdom scores to rock socks with their spells. :P