So I have a 2nd level wizard PC asking me about "Unseen Servant".
He wants to use it to provide himself with "cover", moving around and such.
I know that he is getting a little too "meta" with this, but we will address that later. (I like the PC's coming up with clever solutions to things, and don't mind adapting when it's appropriate.)
Right now, the sticking point is that he wants to instruct the unseen servant to hold up a piece of cloth. I am fine with that. (U.S.'s can lift up to 20 pounds). Where I am having troubles is that I think telling a u.s. to "hold this up" and "follow me" or "move" are TWO different tasks, and the u.s. can only do 1 specific task at a time.
He brings up sweeping the floor, which u.s.'s CAN do, though it requires many different actions (move, sweep, etc). And I tell him "yes, because you are telling it one specific command - 'sweep the floor.'"
Then we are getting into the intelligence of u.s.'s because they would need to know the mechanics of what "sweep the floor" entails, and blah blah blah. In the end, I know what I say goes. But I would like to be fair, (considering I just kidnapped his PC's girlfriend and am holding her hostage, haha) and I don't necessarily need to be right all of the time. Just majority of it.
So, thoughts? Opinions? Thanks.
I would suggest allowing him to use it much like a tower shield can be used. The differences I would offer is that it doesn't actually stop the incoming attacks -- instead it provides a 20% miss chance against ranged attacks only (melee attacks simply poke throw it or go around it) on one side of his square.
I would say if you can describe the task without using a conjunction, it is one thing for the purposes of the spell. Sweep the floor-good. Hold this up and follow me - 2 things. open the door good, hold the door open while juggling cats - 2 things
@Abraham - I understand about the miss chance against ranged, etc. I'm just not sure if I am going to allow him to link the two actions.
@ Kolokotroni - Yeah that is kind of my thinking on it too.
Now he has modified it to: "Hold this up an arm's length away from me."
I have to assume that would work, if he moved, then it would need to move, right?
Like for example: If you instructed a u.s. to bring you a drink - then kept taking steps backward - it would keep coming until it reached you, right?
I would say if you can describe the task without using a conjunction, it is one thing for the purposes of the spell. Sweep the floor-good. Hold this up and follow me - 2 things. open the door good, hold the door open while juggling cats - 2 things
I agree with this. Fluff-wise, I would say that the spellcaster's intent is imprinted upon the unseen servant, so it understands what the command encompasses, within its limits.
"Sweep the floor" gives it an understanding of "sweep", "floor", and the basic context of the request.
"Stay between myself and another" is fine.
I would suggest "Keep this cloth held up between myself and another."
It's fine IC as the caster exploring the spell's limits.
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Great. It now holds the sheet up behind him or to his side or one of the diagonals.
He could say "in front of me" but the game does not have facing and enemies can attack from multiple directions. The servant is not clever enough to maneuver itself between him and enemies.
I could see him taking up a position and using multiple steps to get the servant where he needs it to be.
1) Come here
2) Stay here until I tell you to move.
3) Hold this sheet up by the red corners. (marked ahead of time)
Repeat every time he needs to adjust position. But the U.S only moves at 15 so there might be maneuver problems. I would call all that a move action.
Yeah, I thought about positioning too.
"Arms length" doesn't mean: "Be the exact counter-measure to everything I am doing, so that you can stay in between myself and my enemies."
Sir Ophi - great point about "imprinting" your meaning by command upon the u.s. for your spell. The u.s. being a non-thinking thing, you would need to do this constantly, because it cannot think and react on it's own.
Karkon - good points about the logistics of it. I think you could do it step by step, as you point out. I don't see it being a fluid process though.
Xzaral - Great point about the arrows ripping the cloth out of it;s grasp. I didn't even think about that. An arrow would definitely hit the cloth with more than 20 pounds of force. Considering the average arrow flies between 200 - 300 ft/second, I can see piercing with more than 20 lbs of force.
Reasonably speaking, if it is holding up a cloth- So what? The caster is obviously right on the other side of it. of course, getting your weapon wrapped up in cloth is bad.
Thinking on it, I might suggest that it requires a reflex save to make melee strikes, like most other hit-activated abilties or be disarmed, but that happens once. Then the cloth is cut up and torn to be of little use. Of course, that leads to balance issues with guaranteeing a failed attack.
One other point- What kind of action does it need to change the task? If the cloth is still up, the caster can't cast through it either.
Thinking on it, I might suggest that it requires a reflex save to make melee strikes, like most other hit-activated abilties or be disarmed, but that happens once. Then the cloth is cut up and torn to be of little use. Of course, that leads to balance issues with guaranteeing a failed attack.
This is mostly vs. ranged attacks. I would rule that a melee strike would definitely take the cloth down, or rip the material out of the u.s.'s grasp, since it only has a 2 strength.
Also, a u.s. doesn't have a cmb or cmd, so unless you roll a natural one, I can't see getting a weapon tangled up against a 2 strength.
One other point- What kind of action does it need to change the task? If the cloth is still up, the caster can't cast through it either.
This is a good point.
Any other thoughts before I come down with the final verdict?
Thanks everyone.
I would show him interposing hand and ask if he thinks a 1st-level hour/level spell should be able to do the same as a 5th-level round/level spell.
I think he's trying to be too clever with a spell that is clearly intended to have absolutely no combat use. If he wants a level 1 spell that will give him cover, just tell him to use Mount.
I'm a big fan of the "Yes, but..." school of GMing. If the player asks to do something weird like this, say "Yes, but here's what that will mean in play:"
Some suggestions for the "but": Since he can't see through the sheet either, he's effectively blind in the direction that it's providing cover from. That means anything on that side has concealment from him (which could let rogues sneak close to sneak attack), he can't see what he's walking into, he can't search for traps, and so on. He also has to move very slowly, as Happler pointed out. 15' a round, total. No double moves or charges.
I would, however, let the US understand an instruction like "Hold this sheet up in front of me at arm's length."
It's a force though, it can't "wear" anything.
I'm a big fan of the "Yes, but..." school of GMing. If the player asks to do something weird like this, say "Yes, but here's what that will mean in play:"
Some suggestions for the "but": Since he can't see through the sheet either, he's effectively blind in the direction that it's providing cover from. That means anything on that side has concealment from him (which could let rogues sneak close to sneak attack), he can't see what he's walking into, he can't search for traps, and so on. He also has to move very slowly, as Happler pointed out. 15' a round, total. No double moves or charges.
I would, however, let the US understand an instruction like "Hold this sheet up in front of me at arm's length."
Completely agree. Allow for a command like: "Whilst holding thusly, keep this cloth between myself and that dude with the crossbow." With all the penalties that apply. And it would require some work on the caster's turn to readjust for cover against a different assailant.
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Was just thinking, Does the US make any noise when it moves?
Also, are you required to talk to give it commands?
So far, I cannot find anything in the spell that makes you speak to it, also, since it is just a force, it should make very little noise when moving.
Could I ask it (mentally) to hang that sheet on the crossbowman's head while behind him?
I may just be feeling silly, but this thread got me thinking.
I would say - use existing mechanic and compare to other effects.
Make it work as Aid Another action meant to boost caster's AC against first attack of specific creature - unseen servant would have to make a +0 roll against AC 10 to succeed at this task. Each attack would change positioning/disturb the cloth/cover/shield. As mindless force unseen servant is unable to readjust it on itself and thus has to be commanded again to do so before it can grant that bonus again.
Also, would placing a cloak in hands of six to eight year boy and placing him between attacker and yourself grant any actual benefit? I think rather not unless opponent would be quite weak and small. And unseen servant, unlike child cannot adjust itself to changing circumstances making it even less useful.
Was just thinking, Does the US make any noise when it moves?
Very little. It can float over water but cannot fly, so it might make some noise depending on the surface it's floating over and would displace some air as it moves.
If it attempts any stealth check with a DC over 10, it auto-fails.
Also, are you required to talk to give it commands?
Unspecified, so it's up to the GM. Casting the spell DOES have Verbal components.
Could I ask it (mentally) to hang that sheet on the crossbowman's head while behind him?
Yes, but ...
1) There's no facing
2) It would be an autofail, since that's like using a net on someone or is a combat maneuver. Either way, it would require an attack roll that US isn't allowed to make.
Edit: Ninja'd
Reaper Miniatures
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Cover is directional, so i have no issue with the directional nature of the sheet. If opponents don't have LOS, they don't have LOS. But you have to make sure the player represents the US and the sheet so you can determine that, and he will have to use a move action to change the facing of the sheet ie. which side of the square it occupies.
I would argue that at best it's useful on the one side, and if it does cause the miss, then the sheet takes the damage from the attack as appropriate - until it is damaged beyond usefulness. One scorching ray or flaming arrow and BAM! no sheet. If he loses the sheet on the second round of EVERY fight, he's gonna stop soon, or account for carrying 100 sheets...
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Despite being 'mindless' an unseen servant is a relatively smart cookie: it can effectively attempt any Skill which can be used untrained for tasks of DC 10 or less (apart from the climbing and swimming stuff it's banned from doing). That covers a lot of stuff, including (as mentioned in the spell description) mending stuff for you (via low-level use of the Craft Skill, technically speaking - an unseen servant has no special magical mending powers).
So it's not completely dumb, and at least somewhat intuitive in how it interprets your instructions. Asking it to hold a sheet up between you and the bad guys should be fine - after all, that's hardly a more complex instruction to carry out than, say, 'mend my shoes' - which we know the spell can do, since mending stuff for you is in the text.
If you start to mess around with exact wording, then you just end up playing games of semantics with your players... which most people don't find to be particularly fun (YMMV of course...).
While an unseen servant can't make attack rolls, there are plenty of combat-useful things it can do: loading a crossbow for you is a classic use, for example, as is triggering traps or opening or closing things, pulling levers, administering potions to unconcious team mates, etc. - as long as it doesn't require an attack roll, that sort of stuff is all fine. For example, you could get it to carry a sack of twenty lit fuse grenades over to the bad guys... then follow them around (at its best speed) if they try to get away. A keg of black powder only weighs five pounds - that's a light load, even for a Strength 2 unseen servant... and you were looking to put that spark cantrip to good use too, right? ;)
Could you construe the cloth as a giant bullseye?
