I want to explore a little covered area of most fantasy campaigns: underwater society. I'm planning to ask my players to make merfolk characters, and play a campaign on the fast XP track from 5th to 10th or 12th level, exploring merfolk and sahuagin society and maybe some other societies.
I've already determined the following:
Breathing and spellcasting are not an issue: Merfolk are amphibious, so nobody needs to worry about drowning or being unable to cast spells.
Ranged weapons are not very useful: the CRB gives underwater ranged attacks hefty penalties, so combat will be highly slanted towards melee and spellcasting.
Armor is not an issue: I'm still applying the armor check penalties to swim checks, but even in full plate merfolk are still able to swim fairly well.
The metal of choice is steel. Why? Rust.
Combat will be in three dimensions.
What else do I need to consider for this campaign?
Buoyancy. Things float and things sink. However, even things sinking that can crush you can be deceptive. Just because it's moving slowly doesn't mean you're not in danger!
Fire effects shouldn't be nearly as effective unless they do something to the target themselves. Things like fireball though would be nigh useless. I wouldn't think a fire effect would have any duration longer than one round regardless of what the spell description says. That said, ice should be brutal. Air spells would be particularly mean as well. And pretty much all electricity effects would operate as AoE spells with probably a doubled or larger radius.
Various creatures blend in almost perfectly with their environments. Rock fish come to mind.
There's always something larger out there.
Earthquakes would be particularly deadly since any sort of vortex would pull at anything in the surrounding area.
Rocks are deceptively sharp.
All I got for now.
3.5 had Stormwrack for water stuff, and i believe a 3PP had a water based product as well put out for PF already (as helpful references)
Edit: aha. Sunken Empires.
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The metal of choice is steel. Why? Rust.
Steel will rust underwater. Quite quickly, actually. Stainless steel won't. but somehow I doubt merfolk have access to chromium or zinc (not to mention how they forge anything, but that's a different conversation). Now, bronze doesn't rust. While it will oxidise, it only does it on the surface, and it won't corrode. Otherwise, obsidian spears (from underwater volcanoes), or weapons made from shark teeth would probably be the "metal" of choice.
Steel will rust underwater. Quite quickly, actually. Stainless steel won't. but somehow I doubt merfolk have access to chromium or zinc (not to mention how they forge anything, but that's a different conversation). Now, bronze doesn't rust. While it will oxidise, it only does it on the surface, and it won't corrode. Otherwise, obsidian spears (from underwater volcanoes), or weapons made from shark teeth would probably be the "metal" of choice.The metal of choice is steel. Why? Rust.
I'm assuming they do have the chromium and zinc necessary for stainless steel. After all, we have no idea just what ore deposits are underwater, and this is fantasy. As for how to forge things, merfolk are amphibious if ill suited to land, and perhaps the forge is one of the few things they prefer to build above water.
I'll use bronze if I have to, but I don't want to. Too soft. Obsidian and shark teeth would mean no armor that isn't leather or hide, and I don't want to have to do the CR adjustment for messing with the heavily armored classes.
Fire effects shouldn't be nearly as effective unless they do something to the target themselves. Things like fireball though would be nigh useless. I wouldn't think a fire effect would have any duration longer than one round regardless of what the spell description says. That said, ice should be brutal. Air spells would be particularly mean as well. And pretty much all electricity effects would operate as AoE spells with probably a doubled or larger radius.
Hmm. Replace fire effects with steam effects (which do the same thing), keep ice and air the way they are unless logic dictates something needs to work differently, and warn players not to throw around electricity?
Ohmygodthatsawesome.Combat will be in three dimensions.
Yup. Underwater you can swim in any direction, while on land you aren't going into the air or into the ground without some sort of magic or borrowing ability. This means that in a campaign like this, attacks are much more likely to come from up or down than on land. It also changes how obstacles effect battle, as a lot of the time you can swim around them. It isn't like most land campaigns with a 2D battlemat. Luckily this is a PBP campaign, so battlemats aren't an issue.
Maybe some sort of enchanted coral as armour?
I think I have rules for that somewhere. I'll check my copy of the Arms and Equipment Guide.
Maybe some sort of enchanted coral as armour?I think I have rules for that somewhere. I'll check my copy of the Arms and Equipment Guide.
Got it. It's heavy armor, and fairly cheap.
Maybe expand the choice of aquatic races? There are a lot of neat 1 HD or low HD aquatic races.
Maybe expand the choice of aquatic races? There are a lot of neat 1 HD or low HD aquatic races.
CR 1/3 is what I'm going with. Merfolk and aquatic elves are yes, gillmen are no, and I know of no other CR 1/3 aquatic races but would consider allowing them if I saw any.
Piercing weapons are your best friend. Slashers and Bludgeons have decreased attack and damage underwater.
Steel will rust, but silversheen won't.
Also increase the CR of your encounters. In a fully underwater campaign, merfolk are just pure hax.
They would probably trade for forged weapons with surface dwellers. Also, under the sea you play all day.
No Stormwrack. There are much better 3PP products out there that do what it was supposed to do far better. Stormwrack isn't worth the 30 bucks it would cost me. It wouldn't even be worth half that.
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If it's an entire campaign you are running, you need to be really really good about the rules. And you need to be clear with the players on what will be expected and enforced. Whether or not steel rusts in water, make a decision. If the players are smart or if they are a water race, then they'll ask the right questions and take preventive measures.
I would absolutely consider just handwaving the rust part. Players and GM usually don't RP or prepare out for equipment damage normally (other than from sunder or abilities that damage materials) so I don't expect this to be different.
Decide what spells do what as well, although this is trickier. Also, try to be consistent about it (like fireball will work underwater, but not flaming sphere, etc.) I would just make it easy and say they cast the underwater versions (using force instead of fire, or something like that).
I actually would advise against it, as there are lots of pitfalls for running in a totally different environment. Be prepared for lots of rule arguments, slow as hell combat, and just the environment being more trouble than it's worth.
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AD&D has a long history of having aquatic 'foo,' including aquatic elves, aquatic hobgoblins (koalinth?), aquatic ogres (merrow), aquatic trolls (scrags) and aquatic gargoyles (kopoacinth?).
Aquatic hobgoblins allows for another PC option, and a version of Sahuagin or Locathah with a lower AC bonus could also work (+1 natural armor, like kobolds, or even +2, max, should be fine).
Very few metals don't eventually corrode underwater (gold and platinum are very resistant to corrosion, but crap for weapons). Mithril and Adamantine are fantasy metals, and you can decide whether or not they corrode, but they are prohibitively expensive.
The best bet for allowing underwater races to use metal is to allow for an alchemical solution to oil metals so that they resist corrosion (and the solution could also undo minor corrosion damage, being about as powerful as a pmending cantrip, for this purpose). Alternately, perhaps the alchemical solution is only a preventative, and the mending cantrip is necessary for when the weapon or armor gets banged up and it's coating eroded away. A single coating might last for a month, and only cost a few gold pieces.
By introducing an aquatic creature with the dragon type, a smaller version of a sea serpent, perhaps, or an 'aquatic wyvern,' or some aquatic versions of drakes or tatzelwurms, you can also provide a ready source of 'dragonhide' armor. It's relatively cheap (double cost of normal metal armor) and has the same effects. By doing that, you sidestep just handwaving away the effect of the setting on metal armor, but still allowing equivalent protection (at double cost).
1st and 2nd edition, IIRC, had 'sea elven scale,' that was the aquatic elven equivalent of 'elven chainmail,' so you could even go a step further and have a much more expensive version of aquatic 'dragonhide' that functions like mithril armor, instead of steel armor. Mithril is expensive enough already, that just using the same price (and not double!) should be fine.
Alchemical weapons will be harder to deliver underwater, so some sort of 'bang-stick' innovation which afixes an acid flask or thunderstone to the end of a pole, which is then used to make the touch attack on a foe, might be necessary for anyone attempting that sort of activity. A bomb-throwing specialized alchemist, in particular, is going to be a sad panda, without some sort of customized archetype that allows him to alchemically transmute water near him into acid, or something, in place of the traditional bomb-throwing.
Alchemy, again, provides a potential solution to the problem of metal weapons, as one could either have a special oil that protects a metal weapon from corrosion, *or* a special salve that strengthens a weapon of coral or bone or ivory to allow it to function as a metal weapon, or, more likely, both. The solution might require re-application every 30 days, and represent a sort of 'tax' on owning a metal weapon, or on having a bone/coral/ivory weapon that functions like metal, and, at higher level, one will probably be able to afford a minor magical enhancement that makes a metal weapon permanantly non-rusting, or a coral/bone/ivory one permanantly as hard and sharp as steel (one of those flat-cost enhancements, like +1000 gp, or something, not something worth a '+1 bonus' or anything!).
The 'dragonhide armor solution' can also be applied to weaponry, and, for double cost, one might be able to fashion 'dragonbone weapons' that are non-metal, and function like metal weapons statistically. Creating them from the bones of dragon-Type creatures that aren't true dragons, such as aquatic drakes / wyverns / tatzelwurms / etc. will help justify them only costing twice as much as a metal weapon, and being so readily available to the undersea races.
Spells available should be limited to those that will already work underwater or modified, with the undersea races learning a version of burning hands or fireball that superheats a cone or spherical volume of water (and therefore won't work above the surface!), instead, at no additional cost. Some other aquatic elven / etc. wizard made these necessary modifications ages ago, and the party wizard will be able to learn these modified spells normally (or the unmodified versions, if he intends on adventuring above the surface, on occasion!).
Spells that 'logically' might not work underwater, such as shocking grasp mysteriously do work even when it's raining, don't accidentally go off and blow one's willy off if the caster stops to pee, and can even affect a flying target (that isn't grounded), could be assumed to work just as inexplicably well underwater as they do on the surface, since they are already scoffing loudly at physics anyway.
Piercing weapons will be the rule, underwater, and creatures with DR vs. piercing, such as skeletons and zombies, will have a strong advantage at 1st level, as nobody will likely be carrying a bludgeoning or slashing weapon, and, even if they are, those weapons will be much less effective.
Being able to take a 5 ft. step up or down may create some unusual battle 'maps.' On the tabletop, we would represent a flying character by standing him on a die, with the number on the die representing the number of squares he was above the ground. It will get more complicated if the encounter occurs in a place where characters can end up both above and below the plane at which the combat begins, and in a PBP, where positions aren't marked by figures. (Representing them on a standard map, it might be necessary to put a plus or minus next to the icon representing a character, with a number indicating how many squares up or down they are, from the 'starting plane,' to represent that third axis.)
"Bob's character is in D3 +1, the sahuagin is in E4 +2, so I summon my celestial dolphin into F5 +3 to set up a flank."
Sound travels farther underwater. Sound-based Perception checks could be easier. Then again, if you have three dimensions to traverse terrain instead of just two, move silently-based Stealth checks might be easier.
Tremorsense used by acquatic creatures is more useful.
Maybe the Fly spell gives a speed boost to swimming?
Maybe they can forge metal in the mouths of fire resistant whales?
Or maybe there is a special deepbone material gathered from the bones of creatures of the depths that act as metal?
Scrimshaw?
Narwhale spears?
Trade with dwarves from under the ocean floor?
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Maybe they can forge metal in the mouths of fire resistant whales?
Deep sea volcanic vents can get up to 800 degrees Fahrenheit, not hot enough to smelt metal (or, the sorts of metals usable in weapon and armor crafting, anyway), but with the assistance of magic, or the presence of a portal to the elemental plane of fire, or some other fantasy world mcguffin, could get hotter, and, due to the pressure and depth, the heat is so tightly confined that the water is near-freezing a yard away from the vent.
Or, going with the fire-resistant whale idea, there could just be an aquatic remorhaz or thoqqua or something, that could be domesticated to smelt metal underwater!
A low level transmutation spell could temporarily reduce the melting and ignition points of materials, and be usable on the surface as a debuff that makes a target take double damage from the next fire effect that hits them, or underwater to make a lump of ore more readily forged with lower-temperature heat. A slightly higher level transmutation spell could just skip the middle-man and forge ore into finished gear, like fabricate, but taking longer / costing more / or being otherwise limited. (Less like fabricate, more like stone shape?)
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cerulean seas is a 3pp book has everything u need:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8i1m?Cerulean-Seas-Campaign-Setting
No Stormwrack. There are much better 3PP products out there that do what it was supposed to do far better. Stormwrack isn't worth the 30 bucks it would cost me. It wouldn't even be worth half that.
Just curious you are basing this on what exactly?
Another book that might be a little helpful is D&D 2nd edition FR book Sea of Fallen Stars which details the underwater kingdoms a area in the Forgotten Realms. Which might give you a few ideas.
No Stormwrack. There are much better 3PP products out there that do what it was supposed to do far better. Stormwrack isn't worth the 30 bucks it would cost me. It wouldn't even be worth half that.Just curious you are basing this on what exactly?
The fact that The Seafarer's Handbook and Seas of Blood, two 3PP works, took what it set out to do and did it far better. Stormwrack just seems sort of unfinished compared to them. It has almost everything they have except the ship construction rules, but it's contents just don't strike me as complete. It's not worth buying.
I have a print copy of Into the Blue by Bastion Press. It's not bad for undersea monsters. The book appears to be unavailable through Paizo, but it's at drivethru here.
non-piercing weapons suffer, even in melee
Spellcasters need concentration checks unless the have water breathing
Can you drink a potion underwater?
You cant throw weapons at all. Id make an exception for javelins and harpoons, but RAW: Nothing
Alchemists get kinda slammed come to think of it. Shame that.
Gold will be a primary treasure, silver blackens fast. A chest of silver coins will tarnish together into a solid block.
Fire effects will be limited in effect- IIRC, they can work if you make the check in which case they make steam.
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If you want a great resource try reading this series of Forgotten Realms books. Based on Aquatic Elves / Merfolk and Sahuagin society
Rising Tide (1999)
Under Fallen Stars (1999)
Realms of the Deep (2000)
The Sea Devil's Eye (2000)
The Threat From the Sea is a series written mostly by Mel Odom. The series tells the tale of the world beneath the oceans rising up to attack the surface world. It follows the adventures of Jherek Wolf's-Get, Pacys the bard, Sabyna the wizard, and Laqueel the malenti as they try to find their place in the world during this time of crisis. The series takes place between the Forgotten Realms years of 1354, the Year of the Bow and 1369, the Year of the Gauntlet.
Author Mel Odom intended the Threat from the Sea trilogy to have major implications for the Forgotten Realms setting: "Basically, an evil that has been buried for thousands of years has risen from the sea and turned against the surface world. A lot happens in these books, and the map of Toril will not be the same afterward. A lot of people are going to be shocked and amazed."
Dungeons & Dragons game sourcebook tie-ins were planned to coincide with the novels, allowing players to follow the events of the trilogy in their own campaigns.
Blueshine
- is a special quality that can be applied to metal armor, giving it a blue–black colour and prevents it from being tarnished, becoming rusty or being damaged by acid. It also allows its wearer to hide significantly more easily. its an gold add on about 1500 gp in the MIC.
I would start with this.
I would start with this.
Bizarre. All I seemed to get was some scum floating in the water. No monkeys at all! :(
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As mentioned Cerulean Seas Campaign Setting has everything you need to run a undersea campaign. It is IMHO the best undersea DnD/Pathfinder book made to date. It even has a fairly large section on 3D combat in the sea. Plus undersea races, class tweaks and some new classes. Not to mention tweaking all the spells to work underwater like Fireball.
Unfortunately, I just don't have the 40 bucks to spare for a print copy, and 20 is too much for a pdf. Maybe I'll be able to shell out in a few months, but not now.
It looks like I'll be homebrewing.