So your players seem to be like, really (too) good at their job

[Sowde Da'aro]

Dot. I like dots...

[Squawk Featherbeak]

dot

[Shah Jahan the King of Kings]

Hayato Ken wrote:

Oh how i know this. Communication is key.

Our DM just lured us exactly where he didn´t want us to go by his wordings---ending with a lvl 1 party freeing a lvl 20 mage and killing a pit fiend and several of his folks. Only the DM did not use blasphemy and some other stuff, im not sure if he didnt want a TPK or just didn´t know how to handle it. He´s still too much into a previous version and sometimes a little bit helpless :)

How? That's not even remotely possible without some sort of death trap well beyond the means of a first level party. Like, you'd need to cause several underdark cave-ins. And then he still has high DR. Like, 15.

Also, a 1HD means a high average of 14 HP. A Pit Fiend also has fireball at will, and quickened 3 times a day, and meteor storm once a day. So if you're within 1120 feet and also under about 80 HP, you're automatically dead.

[Jen the GM]

Perhaps they freed the level 20 mage, that proceeded to debuff the pit fiend into submission.

[Buri]

Level 20 mages do that. :)

[Saganen]

I have played this char in the rise of the runelords campaign and he worked really really good. We played with the pathfinder rules.

Half-elf
Change racial trait integrated. It removes the skill focus perception with +1 to bluff, disuise and local.
Stats: Very high dex, screw str, a minor bonus to con+wis, medium bonus to int and cha.
Class: 1 lvl you pick the fighter arch type Lore Warden.
It removes proficiency with medium armor, heavy armor, and shields. And gives you +2 skill ranks pr lvl and ALL int based skills becomes class skills.
We dont care about the removing of armor and shields. Because we are goin to multiclass with the rogue archtype knife master.
So at first lvl we pick the two feats, weapon finess and two weapon fighting. And of course, we pick up two daggers to fight with.

I took lvls as this:
1 Warden
2 Knife master
3 Knife master
4 Warden
5 Knife master
6 Knife master
7 Warden
8 Warden
9 Warden
10 Knife master
11 Knife master
12 Warden
13 Warden
14 Knife master
15 Knife master
16 Knife master

Another player was a human fighter.. So I was constantly flanking and i dealt a great great great amouth of damage.. The build also gives incredible many skills, which always is pure gold in a campaign.

[Shah Jahan the King of Kings]

Jen the GM wrote:

Perhaps they freed the level 20 mage, that proceeded to debuff the pit fiend into submission.

Be that as it may, a Pit Fiend is a CR 20. So a single 20th level NPC or PC shouldn't stand much of a chance. Especially considering that a pit fiend can also summon a horned or Immolation devil, which are CR 16 and 19 respectively. Each of these should give a lone 20th level PC serious trouble, especially if they use common sense tactics like "Grab onto the thing smaller than you and squeeze it"- AKA, a grapple check.

[Axebeard]

calagnar wrote:

at level 5 when they toke down a CR 6 in two rounds.

That's not too unusual. One monster gets quickly overwhelmed on action economy alone by a group of PCs.

Have you considered using a little Trailblazer solo monster rules to spice things up? You can simulate it in pathfinder, and here's how:

1) Multiply the HP of the monster by the number of party members
2) Give the monster a free action attack (like one attack at its highest BAB) usable once per round on the trigger of "struck in melee", or something.
3) Don't change the CR of the monster.

The trailblazer rules give the solo monsters either one action point per party member, or six action points, I forget which. Anyways, these points are spendable to allow the monster to reroll/modify (add 1d6 to) saving throws, or take a single action between player turns, but never interrupting player actions. It's a decent way to have a climactic boss fight and stretch the party because of how fast damage piles up in the systems built on 3e. The above 3 guidelines are to basically attempt to give the monster action points without having to add rules for them into the system.

4e suffered from the monsters having too many hp with respect to PC damage output and not dealing enough damage themselves, so the solo template in that game didn't work very well. PF/3e/TB has classes that just PUMP out the damage, and from the looks of the builds in your party, they too drop big numbers. As such, putting one monster about every time the PCs level up built with the "solo" template, I think, would not drag, but instead add gravity and a bit of drama to a fight.

[Mal-Duroth]

joeyfixit wrote:

Looks like your bard hasn't dumped. Neither has the Warlord. More importantly, 15 points is pretty stingy and below Society standard. You're more or less expected to dump, yeah?

I thought 15 WAS the standard. If you look at all the adventure paths, most NPCs and all the pregen characters in the back are built w/ 15 points.

[KrispyXIV]

Mal-Duroth wrote:

joeyfixit wrote:

Looks like your bard hasn't dumped. Neither has the Warlord. More importantly, 15 points is pretty stingy and below Society standard. You're more or less expected to dump, yeah?

I thought 15 WAS the standard. If you look at all the adventure paths, most NPCs and all the pregen characters in the back are built w/ 15 points.

I believe that makes it the baseline assumption. What everything is initially balanced against.

Since PFS uses 20 point buy, I believe 20 point buy is therefore considered the 'standard'.

[tanostimewalker]

We are currently playing a group of four people:
1 magus(dervish dancer), 1 summoner(master summoner), 1 fighter(high AC style - me) and a cleric. All characters are lvl 5.
Well we have an amazing GM, and the others players are very and fast too. Problem is that the summoner kinda ... OWNS - stealing the spotlight.
He can cast summon monster III 9 times a day, and it stacks!(as long as the petty skill monkey eidolon is unsummoned). He has the feats, Augment summoning, Superior summons, Caster of the conjurers gauntlet and summon defenders.
So his summons receive +4 to str and con, +1 to atk rolls and DCs of spells. +2 to AC and saves. And casting lower lvl summonings are overpowered(2-4 from list 2). So whenever we enter a combat thats kinda challenging, he summons 4-8 small earth elementals(and he can do it like three times more afterwards)+ he has numerous other handy spells.
Mby you are like... nah whatever... but these little dudes hurt! They have 19 AC, and have a slam attack on +9(1d6+10) (using power attack) and earth mastery. And they crush our enemies pretty hard. Even though he has so many monsters, i doesnt rly slows combat that much(colored dice + overall effiecient player)... But they kill everything. And at the end of the day he even heals more than our cleric, by casting azata lyrakien, which cast cure light wounds 1d8+3... So is he inviolating the rules?