Give them Iron Will and Improved Iron Will. Then punish him for getting so close.
Or use Undead. I thought CC was known for undead, hm.
One of my players plays an Oracle and recently discovered the power of the combination Awesome Display + Color Spray.
A monster that was supposed to be a big challenge was dead within one round. I don't like "Save or Die" powers anyway and this is no better. Reading through the next modules of the Adventure Path we're currently playing (Carrion Crown), I see that this could be a big issue.
I have no problem with powerful characters, but it seems that this particular power may take away a lot of fun from the game as many of the fights will likely be decided with a single die roll in the first round.
What would you do to deal with this? (Note: I don't want to change every encounter to have only monsters that are immune to illusions or something like that. I also don't want to completely destroy the power of the character.)
Hmm... even if buffed by Awesome Display (which makes it crazily strong), the spell still is 1st level... which does impact its Save DC. Is the player shooting his spell DCs sky high, or could a little loving buff to Will Saves do the trick already?
Second (I admit I don't know Carrion Crown)... Color Spray is mind-affecting. There are quite a couple of monsters who are immune to that. (several outsiders, about all undead...) No, you shouldn't change every encounter that way, but no one said you couldn't throw the occasional monster with that immunity into the mix... or cough up a whole encounter with, e.g. Undead.
Third, Color spray hat a craptastic range, and an Oracle is not usually well-suited to receive the echo if a baddie succeeds on his Will Save...
I'd say sit down with the oracle player and talk to him about your concern that he might have discovered a power there that shifts the balance of encounters maybe a tad too much. He might think the same way and agree that he won't be using it anymore, but might want to switch out the mystery or something then.
I think it's unfair that if a player develops a good tactic, sinks feats and resources into it and then the GM comes and changes stuff so that it's useless, but I see you don't want to do that.
Of course buffing the targets will saves a bit might improve the chances of them withstanding it, while not taking away everything from the player. Also a possibility then. However having every enemy suddenly learn Iron Will is kinda weird too.
Color spray is mind affecting -- anything immune to such will not be affected by it, and many things will get a bonus against it.
It is also extremely close range.
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One of my players plays an Oracle and recently discovered the power of the combination Awesome Display + Color Spray.
A monster that was supposed to be a big challenge was dead within one round. I don't like "Save or Die" powers anyway and this is no better. Reading through the next modules of the Adventure Path we're currently playing (Carrion Crown), I see that this could be a big issue.
I have no problem with powerful characters, but it seems that this particular power may take away a lot of fun from the game as many of the fights will likely be decided with a single die roll in the first round.
What would you do to deal with this? (Note: I don't want to change every encounter to have only monsters that are immune to illusions or something like that. I also don't want to completely destroy the power of the character.)
A) Its a close range spell (15ft.)
B) Its HD dependant (more than 4 its meh)C) Its available to monsters as well
D) Will Negates
Toss in a caster type monster. It will naturally have a higher Will save AND you can give the spell to that creature to see how well it REALLY works on the PCs. Sadly I have not played that AP to know the ins and outs of it, but doing things like adding some ranged enemies to shoot the Oracle or casters to blast the Oracle is the easy way out. Forcing AoO as she casts the spell or making her Deaf/Mute are also fun ways to to cause panic.
It's powerful, but it seems like this was the exact intention of Awesome Display. I say let it be as it is and use one of the standard ways of beefing up encounters: add more monsters.
I haven't read Carrion Crown, but I'm sure there are ways to add more critters. Color Spray affects a very small area. Take advantage of that and make sure your creatures don't fill a small cone-shaped area. Even better if critters can approach them from behind after they enter a room with other critters. In this case, it's actually a good idea to let them fit in the cone-shaped area. Your oracle can feel awesome for saving the day with Color Spray, the encounter will be longer and at roughly the original challenge intended, and none will be the wiser that all the Color Sprayed enemies were "extra".
Second (I admit I don't know Carrion Crown)... Color Spray is mind-affecting. There are quite a couple of monsters who are immune to that. (several outsiders, about all undead...) No, you shouldn't change every encounter that way, but no one said you couldn't throw the occasional monster with that immunity into the mix... or cough up a whole encounter with, e.g. Undead.
Doesn't Carrion Crown already sport a large number of undead enemies? I'm not sure never played it really, but I always thought so.
Undead are by default immune to pattern spells (and a couple of other things)
A) Its a close range spell (15ft.)
B) Its HD dependant (more than 4 its meh)
C) Its available to monsters as well
D) Will Negates
Ah, but the Awesome Display power will up that HD limit by the Oracle's Charisma Modifier. Which, the Oracle being a Charisma caster, tends to be a bit on the high side.
And poof, the limits are no more 2HD / 4HD, but rather 7HD / 9HD, or worse.
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A) Its a close range spell (15ft.)
B) Its HD dependant (more than 4 its meh)
C) Its available to monsters as well
D) Will NegatesAh, but the Awesome Display power will up that HD limit by the Oracle's Charisma Modifier. Which, the Oracle being a Charisma caster, tends to be a bit on the high side.
And poof, the limits are no more 2HD / 4HD, but rather 7HD / 9HD, or worse.
At the time they are fighting things with 9HD I sure as hell hope the enemies have a way to deal with this spell.
Even at level 1 it takes ONE archer to hold his action to wait for the Oracle to begin casting to completely screw that Oracle out of a spell.
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As far as mind affecting thing goes the player could take a dip into the undead/boreal? Crossblooded sorc so he can affect some undead and plants. Carrion Crown seems like a likely path to gain some amount of control over undead. Just figured I would give you a possible counter strategy if the probable big weapon in his arsenal is reduced.
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As far as mind affecting thing goes the player could take a dip into the undead/boreal? Crossblooded sorc so he can affect some undead and plants. Carrion Crown seems like a likely path to gain some amount of control over undead. Just figured I would give you a possible counter strategy if the probable big weapon in his arsenal is reduced.
The oracle could take a level of Undead Sorcerer, sure.
As for dealing with Awesome Display, consider Darkness. If you can't see the colors, you can't be affected by them. A blind-fighter or tremorsense opponent would do wonders here.
Also, since it's a short range spell, it's useless against archers or other ranged attackers. Heck, at 15', you've got tentacled grapplers who might grab at that distance. Just ready an action for the spellcaster to approach.
You only have to worry about this combo up until the first time that the oracle fails with the spell and gets pummeled. Color spray requires you to go really close and that is never a good idea for a caster.
Problem with preparing the action to grapple/attack the oracle is that the enemies need a reasonable explanation why they would ready that action.
If they saw the oracle do it to another group or earlier in the encounter, maybe. If the oracle has done it 200 times before and it's become her signature so people are talking about it already, yes sure. If they're high/medium level already and have a reputation, then i guess maybe.
If they meet that random group who have no real justification to know the tactics of another random group, then no.
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Problem with preparing the action to grapple/attack the oracle is that the enemies need a reasonable explanation why they would ready that action.
If they saw the oracle do it to another group or earlier in the encounter, maybe. If the oracle has done it 200 times before and it's become her signature so people are talking about it already, yes sure. If they're high/medium level already and have a reputation, then i guess maybe.
If they meet that random group who have no real justification to know the tactics of another random group, then no.
You're the DM...NOTHING you do has to make sense. Only the player's actions do. Its your world and if you want every to be able to tell the future you can.
You want your game to be fun and challenging...if the color spray takes away from that you take counter measures to return it to the fun and challenging status.
An awesome display oracle with Threnodic Spell could really rock Carrion Crown.
You're the DM...NOTHING you do has to make sense. Only the player's actions do. Its your world and if you want every to be able to tell the future you can.
You want your game to be fun and challenging...if the color spray takes away from that you take counter measures to return it to the fun and challenging status.
Please note rule -1, "Don't be a jerk."
If you care for verisimilitude in your game then your monsters and everything you do has to display that.
Now are there monsters that will sit back and wait for a chance to grapple? Yes and generally they are monsters that are quite good at it, but if all of a sudden everything is doing and is doing so regularly or without any rhyme or reason other than it seems to be the only way to handle a tactic the player has that's a party foul.
I mean sure you can do it -- go ahead if you want to be that GM, but honestly there are so many better ways to go about handling the problem.
Oh look its this thread again, I bet that he nerfs the awesome display + color spray, he will come back next week complaining about that the martial character of the group is dropping monsters left and right....
Protection from Good?
I had an Oracle with this. He did it for about 4 levels and then stopped because all of the sudden certain enemies were higher level than he could make affected by Color Spray. Not that they were fighting all that high level of stuff, but at a certain point the player can't increase his CHA any higher. Also, as other's said, if the whatever happens to make their will save, or be immune to the effect, well it will not end well for the Oracle.
This combo really isn't as powerful as some people think. It's a nice ability that makes the spell useful at higher levels (as opposed to totally useless, which we should all agree is unacceptable), but the thing is, those higher HD creatures are going to have higher save bonuses and this is still just a 1st level spell, so the save DC will be pretty low. And, as other people have pointed out, the spell has other big limitations, like its range.
Really, I don't understand why this is such a big deal at those levels when people can be throwing out things like Fear, Confusion and Mass Command. Not only are those spells much more potent, they have a higher save DC and are thus more likely to succeed.
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I think that if your Oracle is excited to have figured this trick out, taking it away from her would kill a lot of her fun just as much as letting her trivialize every combat encounter takes away everyone else's fun.
Here's some things that would shrug off a Color Spray fairly easily.
Undead
Constructs
Oozes
Plants
certain Outsiders
Anything with a decent Will save or SR
Any widely spread group of enemies (probably archers)
Most players expect their GM to put them up against some of these things from time to time. Let the Color Spray trick work sometimes, and throw your group up against stuff like this the rest of the time. Then your Oracle still gets to feel good about her tactic but can't just spam it in every fight. A good GM should vary his or her tactics from one encounter to the next anyway.