So, I've decided to go ahead and stat out an NPC in my homebrew campaign using the Pathfinder ruleset. I've never had a reason to do so yet (because, seriously, woe be to the first person to pick a fight with this guy) but I figured it'd be better to get it out of the way. As far as power level, I'm looking for something that seems roughly in line with demon lord status- not something that a group of 20th-level PCs would be able to beat without lots of help.
The NPC in question is the world's original vampire. In my campaign world, virtually every vampire (save a couple stragglers created via necromantic anomalies) were either created directly by him over the last thousands of years, or were created by one of his spawn (or his spawn's spawn, etc.). In life, he was a human fighter, specializing in sword-and-board, and in undeath, he's only gotten stronger, more cunning, and more manipulative. And when I say he should seem around demon-lord power level, I mean it. Back when he was alive, he was friends with more than one person that went on to become the gods of the Greyhawk pantheon.
My first question is: Since he was a fighter in life, should I use a 20th-level Human Fighter as a base? Or would that result in something far too weak (considering anything with 20 HD is sure to fall quickly against a group of 20th-level PCs)? Would it be better to simply give him however many HD I think is appropriate, and then give him unique abilities to emulate typical fighter features?
I honestly don't see anyone ever fighting this guy, but it seems like a fun exercise. Any help would be most appreciated!
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Templates are your friend.
Advanced for a start.
Half Fiend is another option very "demonic" works for an ancient vampire.
I like Kyrt-rider's suggestion but I'd evolve that into Magus.
Are you sold on human and fighter? I ask because I've seen something that is disgusting and beautiful all at the same time. In an exercise of optimization and craziness, someone in my group built a Vampire Nymph Zen Archer Monk. It's main weakness is the amount of damage it does, which is still high but there are things that could get higher. Where it shines is defense. It's AC and saves are phenomenal. I'd feel sorry for any 20th level party that had to face it.
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LV 20 AM BARBARIAN build Mighty Genie-Bound Devil-Bound Two-Headed Diamond Undead Lord Vampire Rune Giant. CR 54 with a CR 51 mount.
Hehehehe.
LV 20 AM BARBARIAN build Mighty Genie-Bound Devil-Bound Two-Headed Diamond Undead Lord Vampire Rune Giant. CR 54 with a CR 51 mount.
Hehehehe.
You are a horrible person and I hope you feel bad.
You are a horrible person and I hope you feel bad.LV 20 AM BARBARIAN build Mighty Genie-Bound Devil-Bound Two-Headed Diamond Undead Lord Vampire Rune Giant. CR 54 with a CR 51 mount.
Hehehehe.
S/He said "not something that a group of 20th-level PCs would be able to beat without /lots/ of help" ... 8D
EDIT: Also I realized it's impossible. A gargantuan rider would need a colossal mount. A size that eidolons will never reach (Unless Paizo comes up with epic rules. PLEASE DON'T) So another idea would be for the mount to be the Terrasque with the Amy Alchy build. But that would be silly.
I was going to go with grand wyrm gold dragon with advanced half celestial half fiend and then the rest of Squawk's stuff.
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I understand very much your urge to create that character, however unlikely it is to be used in-game. I love that part of being a GM - to instill your own order into the universe you craft.
First thing, I believe for the First Vampire I would simply not apply the vampire template. Making up a way this character acquired most vampirey powers seems more interesting to me, and it makes sense that only spawns from this unnatural transformation would be stereotypical vampires.
One way I imagine using your premise is the story of a young fighter, adventurer of sorts, who had the awful bad lock to encounter a threat way out of his league. After some time as a fighter he met a Hezrou demon, who lived from the soul of one of the boy's old girlfriends, whom he seduced and threw away without regard at the age of 19; she then killed herself with poison, and spent all her time as a demon trying to poison the whole world. Why they met is lost to time; but she succeded into possessing him - making him a devil-bound creature.
The blood he drawn when he deflored the young lady, she made him seek without end. To satisfy the bloodlust, he acquired hunter skills out of par - and become more and more of a savage animal.
Eventually, the creature he had became couldn't be differentiated from the demon inside itself. This half-fiend that we would call today a vampire became a creature obsessed by herself with drawing innocent blood and corrupting the pure. Even the Gods couldn't stop the venom spilled throughout the world by the revenge of a once pure damsel.
Summary of what I suggest:)
-12 fighter lvls, very generic longswordsman
-Demon-possed template, Hezrou (note: gaseous form power from here)
-20 ranger lvls - I suggest Shapeshifter archetype with sorm rewording ex: eagle=bat; others fit pretty well IMO
-after some ranger lvls, add Half-Fiend template and get amongst other abilities natural attacks for your shapeshifter natural weapon style
-Finally the vampire template could be added as a sort of deal with Asmodeus who against some kind of veto regarding his corrupting actions gives him the power to procreate.
So... yeah. Some stuff to think about. :)
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First thing, I believe for the First Vampire I would simply not apply the vampire template. Making up a way this character acquired most vampirey powers seems more interesting to me, and it makes sense that only spawns from this unnatural transformation would be stereotypical vampires.
This. A vampire without ANY of the expected weaknesses is a very scary idea for players.
Take a level 20 Fighter Vampire.
Overcharge him with Advanced Bestiary templates.
Equip him with nice abilities you can find here.
The game I am currently in has the BBEG a vampire Anti-Paladin. High Charisma = tons of health along with the AP abilities. The GM calls him an "Elder Vampire" and he has none of the associated weaknesses. I'm not looking forward to fighting him.
@Mage Evolving, two things.
First: Copying and pasting another company's IP may not be the best idea. Name checking him is cool, but posting the entire stat block I'm sure violates something.
Second: Spoiler tags. Makes life easier for everybody.
To be completely honest I just wasn't thinking. But you are absolutely correct. A link or a spoiler tag would have been much more appropriate. I suppose this is what happens when you post from the lobby of an airport.
How about a 20th level fighter with a sword (or amulet or whatever) that radiates an antimagic field. ;-)
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I removed a post. Please don't repost large sections of copyrighted works.
I am tremendously curious what the copyrighted work was though. Might be something I want to read now.
I know this is the Rules forum (as I pointed out to someone in another thread a few days ago) but most of my suggestions are more in the vein of creating a homebrew epic vampire-like monster closer to the Jabberwock or another epic creature, than building something with existing rules.
I recommend:
1.) Use the Advanced Template.
2.) Use the vampire template AND the nosferatu template, grant powers from both as appropriate.
3.) Give 20 levels in an appropriate class, fighter or magus are both good choices.
4.) Give 10 racial undead hitdice above and beyond the 20 class levels, or use the nightwalker as his base creature.
5.) Vampires have DR 10/magic and silver, and nosferatu have DR 10/wood and piercing. I recommend increasing the DR to 20/epic and specific-kind-of-wood and piercing. That means to overcome his DR the weapon would have to be something like epic (+6) hawthorne spear or epic (+6) dogwood stake.
6.) Grant him Regeneration instead of Fast Healing. He has regeneration 20, negated by Sunlight or full immersion in running water.
7.) Diminish his vampire weaknesses. Sunlight doesn't kill him, for instance, but it negates his Regeneration and he suffers a penalty to attacks and Perception checks (Light Sensitivity).
8.) Increase the Con drain of his Blood Drain ability. He can drink someone dry much faster. Maybe as high as 3d4 Con per round?
9.) Increase the number of negative levels he drains per slam. I'd suggest 2d4 negative levels per hit.
10.) His mist form has the same movement speed as his regular form. When reduced to 0 hp, he is only utterly destroyed if he's not on the same plane as his coffin/resting place/lair/whatever--perhaps he can only be permanently destroyed on positive-dominant planes. If he is at 0 hp and in mist form when the Sun rises, he is immobilized on that spot until sunset, trapped in mist form but also invulnerable. This functions like petrification except that he's trapped as mist, not stone. While it is "possible" that his mist could be collected while he's unconscious and immobile at 0 hp, if any bit of it isn't collected, he simply regenerates the rest once he regains his 1 hp.
11.) After being staked, his head has to be severed and submersed in running water on a good-aligned or positive-dominant plane.
12.) Grant him the abilities of basically all the variant vampire abilities: swarm form, telepathy with any given vampire or vampire spawn descended from him, including being able to see through its eyes, hear through its ears, and communicate directly with it via telepathy at any range on the same plane.
13.) Give him the fiendish template for good measure. When he creates vampires, he can create them as standard vampires, nosferatu, any other vampire types like vrykolakas or penanggalen, vampire spawn, with the advanced simple template, and with the fiendish template, or any combination.
14.) Of course grant him Scent, superior low-light vision, and see in darkness 120 ft.
15.) Oh yeah, grant him Control Weather at-will, so he can create his own fog cover, snow storms, etc.
16.) I think his basic forms should be kept thematically close to the 4 swarms of nosferatu (bat swarm, rat swarm, spider swarm, centipede swarm) and 3 forms of vampire (dire bat, wolf, and mist), but he should be able to appear as any of his forms while mist, and should add regular bat, dire wolf, small, medium, and large giant spiders, and small, medium, and large giant centipedes.
17.) Oh yeah, also give him the lycanthrope (werewolf) and lycanthrope (werebat) templates for hybrid forms. His bite also spreads lycanthropy 50% chance for which type (werewolf/werebat) to any that manage to survive his embrace.
Hey, you said he was a god.
Game rules aren't subject to copyright, so far as I know, but the OGL has restrictions written into it beyond copyright as well. If his stats weren't released OGL, he might be in breach of OGL because of his special abilities being unique or something.
But anyway, I have Expedition to Castle Ravenloft so I've got stats for him at level 10 (CR 15), and I think I have him at level 20 elsewhere. Thanks for letting me know what it was that I missed though.
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I am tremendously curious what the copyrighted work was though. Might be something I want to read now.
The stat block of Strad (May have misspelled his name) from Ravenloft.
Incidentally... I thought game rules weren't subject to copyright? Had the poster in question made sure to remove all instances of specific names and other such content would the post have been left unmolested?
If he had just posted a stat block and changed a couple of things around, he'd probably be ok. But copying word for word is a copyright infringement pretty much 100% of the time.
You're right, game mechanics cannot be copyrighted (technically the mechanics of beholders and illithids are open game, but the names of the critters are not), but a build isn't rules, it's a build. And a build for a published persona is subject to copyright.
Isn't the demon lord Zura of Golarion canonically the first vampire in that world, and also the strongest one? I am not sure...
Isn't the demon lord Zura of Golarion canonically the first vampire in that world, and also the strongest one? I am not sure...
More or less. Assumed he didn't mean Golarion.
20th level half-fiend Anti-Paladin vampire.
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(Warning: HUGE wall of text here. Only read if you are genuinely interested in this character of mine.)
Thanks for the advice, everyone! I definitely did not expect this thread to get this many replies. Allow me to give some information!
First off, as far as making him a spellcaster and/or something other than a Fighter, I am pretty much married to the Human Fighter angle. His backstory is very long and involved (and something I'm very proud of), so I won't include it all here, but here's the gist:
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Artemis was a stable-boy-turned-Squire for a knight named Harrow, and they were both part of a group of knights exiled by a corrupt king. In their quest to overthrow this corrupt king, they encountered a powerful sorcerer- this sorcerer (known as the "Dark One") was the first individual to master the art of reanimating the dead (both the creation of undead and true raising of the dead). During the big climactic battle against the Dark One, Artemis was killed by a blast of necromantic energy meant for Harrow. After the battle, Harrow was devastated, and with no other option, turned to the Dark One's own magical research for an answer, dabbling in the mystical arts himself. Using this research, they were able to bring Artemis back from the dead within a few days, but a great deal of damage was still done- Artemis was left with the taint of necromancy on him, and a seed of darkness had been planted in Harrow's mind.
Time passed, they continued adventuring, and eventually were able to overthrow the corrupt king and establish a new kingdom. Artemis was made a noble and placed as the head of the military, and Harrow was an advisor to the new king. As the years passed, however, Artemis grew weak, and Harrow grew more and more obsessed with the art of necromancy. One day, a political rival hired an assassin to kill the now-feeble Artemis, and it went as planned. However, immediately after, he rose from the dead- as the first vampire. At first he viewed himself as an abomination that must be put to death, and begged Harrow to kill him- but Harrow, unable to kill his closest friend, but at the same time viewed Artemis as something abhorrent (and, at the same time, he was bitter towards Artemis' connection with his obsession), so unable to make a decision, Harrow fled. Since that day, neither Artemis nor Harrow have viewed each other as anything but mortal enemies. Harrow, on the other hand, eventually mastered undeath himself, transforming himself into the first lich. In time, his amassing power caused him to gather followers- or more like worshippers- who dubbed him "Vecna", or "Dark One" in their tongue. Over the centuries, Artemis and Harrow have clashed many times, including one long and bitter battle during which Artemis severed Harrow's hand and gouged out his eye (with the sword Harrow gave him many years before, no less). To this day the two still battle, but neither is willing to do what it takes to completely destroy the other. Despite their hatred of each other, they both view the other as equals- the only equals in existence. One wouldn't be able to function without the other, if that makes any sense.
So, in other words, it's very important to me that Artemis have no magical ability (as that's what set him aside from Harrow), but instead just be an incredibly powerful and defensive melee fighter. As the first vampire, I always envisioned his abilities as being quite different (in most cases, more powerful) than the typical vampire- he lacks the weaknesses of the typical vampire (since the weaknesses are the result of the vampire lineage being diluted across generations), but he also lacks many of the supernatural abilities most vampires possess- some of them were passed on by some of his more powerful spawn that had supernatural abilities in life, and others are simply natural abilities that he's honed over the thousands of years of his life.
For example, Artemis cannot change form (into animals or otherwise)- the reason that so many can is because one of Artemis' most prolific spawn, a powerful shape-changing Druid, possessed such abilities, and he created many, many spawn in his life (to which he passed on his shapechanging and affinity for animals of the night). He cannot read minds or charm with a gaze- however, because he's had such a long time to learn how the human mind works and how to manipulate others, he is incredibly persuasive and intuitive, often seeming like he can read minds or charm others. He has no weakness to sunlight (that arose in his spawn because of the fact that for the first few decades, he and his spawn only operated at night so as to avoid suspicion), nor is he averse to holy symbols, garlic, crossing water, or entering a home uninvited (though he does tend to have a strong sense of manners :-P).
As for what abilities he DOES have- he's incredibly strong (very, very strong), incredibly fast (I'd consider giving him a "supernatural quickness" ability, something akin to being able to use Dimension Door at will as a move action to represent that), and if he is killed, he doesn't turn to gaseous form like normal vampires. You see, in my campaign world, vampires have a tenuous relationship with their souls- their soul does not inhabit their body, which is why they don't cast a reflection, and when they are destroyed they have to return to their coffin within a certain period of time or be destroyed. (The coffin represents a safe place where their soul can be at rest, and, upon death, most people's souls choose their coffin as its final resting place. That's why they have to return there every night or whatever.) With Artemis, however, his soul does inhabit his body- so he does cast a reflection, and, if he's destroyed, his soul immediately returns to his coffin. Like a lich's phylactery, unless his coffin is destroyed, he reforms there a few days later.
Giving him DR of something like X/Wood makes sense to me- part of the chain of events that got my campaign world to where it is involved Artemis' progeny being cursed with a weakness to ash (it also is a long story, but another living ally of Artemis grew to be a head of a cabal of powerful druids, and upon his death at Artemis' hand he transformed himself into an ash tree, and bestowed upon Artemis and any of his spawn a vulnerability to weapons fashioned from wood taken from an ash tree).
At any given point, Artemis has one motivation: To ensure the survival and success of his (living) family. Although he and his wife faked their deaths a few years after their transformations so as to keep their secret, Artemis keeps close tabs on every member of his living family, and those of his family that do know him only know of him as a distant relative who occasionally sends money and advice. If someone or something threatens his family's safety or reputation, he is swift and merciless, doing literally whatever has to be done to ensure his line's survival.
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Whew! I hope that all made sense to anyone who read it. The whole story is much longer, much more involved, and quite brilliant if I may say so myself, but I had to condense it all quite a bit. Anyone interested in hearing more may contact me at their leisure. :-P
I know you've said you're set on him being human.
When I suggested you start with a Nightwalker base, that wasn't to suggest he wasn't human in life, just that he became huge and got all its hitdice and feats, and a few bonus abilities.
Honestly, if you don't want him to have most of the vampire abilities, it's a fairly good starting point for an epic undead that's mostly melee. It is huge though. I'm guessing, since you say he was human, you want to keep him as a medium creature. There's nothing to suggest he would have to stay medium in undeath though. Maybe he didn't start out as a huge undead, but merely got that way over the millenia, for example. It's a 21 HD huge humanoid undead (CR 16). It does have some spell-like ablities and enhanced senses though. If you just started shaving stuff off, it would make it a pain to calculate CR, but that's going to be true with the vampire template too.
With as many features as you want to remove from the vampire template, I'd say just start with a wight as your base creature instead, maybe a cairn wight (so it has the advanced template and can energy drain through its sword). Give it appropriate damage reduction, 20 fighter levels, and 10 or so undead hitdice. Give it the blood drain ability and you're just about there as far the the abilities it does and doesn't have.
Mechanically you get a cairn wight fighter 20 with 10 racial hitdice (30 HD total), DR 20/epic and ash (or just 20/ash, if you want, but I'd go epic and ash, like vampires are DR 10/magic and silver), the vampire blood drain (advanced blood drain at 2d4 or 3d4 Con/round is still suggested), and the energy drain of the wight should be bumped up to from 1 level to something higher as suggested above.
Roleplay-wise, you get an epic vampire with 20 fighter levels and 30 total hitdice (10d8 + 20d10).
This is basically the reverse approach of how Pathfinder RPG handles the vampire spawn. It says, roughly, "add/subtract these features from a wight to make a vampire spawn." So I'm saying you don't want those features anyway (vampire weaknesses, mist, etc) so use a cairn wight advanced to epic levels instead, and call him an epic vampire.
Cairn wight fighter is your best bet, IMO. Takes a lot of the work out of trying to calculate his CR when you're subtracting stuff from his template. Of course to take him above 20 levels of fighter to get the other 10 levels of undead hitdice, you'll have to employ some epic-level calculations, and those rules aren't really hammered out for Pathfinder.
I suppose it's too late to point out that Artemis is traditionally a Greek goddess of archery and the moon.
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Edward Carlyle
Str: 24
Int: 20
Wis: about 4
Dex: 36
Con: ---
Chr: 12 (80 when dealing with females with the "Young" template.
Changed weakness (instead of being stunned and destroyed by sunlight, he becomes glittery. In this state he cannot turn invisible, and any females must make a DC 24 will save or become fascinated).
DR: 20/adementium (tough skin)
A perfect arch-villain vampire, as he loses all of vamp limiting factors. Plus, the party will already hate him.
DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT make it sparkle in the sunlight!!!!!
End transmission.
Edward Carlyle
Str: 24
Int: 20
Wis: about 4
Dex: 36
Con: ---
Chr: 12 (80 when dealing with females with the "Young" template.Changed weakness (instead of being stunned and destroyed by sunlight, he becomes glittery. In this state he cannot turn invisible, and any females must make a DC 24 will save or become fascinated).
DR: 20/adementium (tough skin)A perfect arch-villain vampire, as he loses all of vamp limiting factors. Plus, the party will already hate him.
>.>
Is there a such thing as roleplaying bleach? I'd like to wipe any and all existence of this build from roleplaying existence.
I would go with the demon lord template from Dragon 359. Also, add sparklies as an obyrith form of madness ability, requiring a save or be permanently insane.
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You could run some numbers here, but you should give him epic stats. Whatever your party is as far as point buy, and give him another +5 or so.
Then have fun with templates, items and inherent bonuses.
25 point buy
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 14
Vampiric Template
Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4
Advanced Tempate
+4 to all stats
Middle Aged (you said time passed, he weakened, and undeath probably reversed the physical decline)
+1 to mental stats
Inherent bonuses from wishes. (dude had access to lots of money and a fair bit of time to accumulate and make this happen)
Str +5, Dex +4, Int +5, Wis +5, Cha +5
Belts and Headbands (he should have these)
+6 to all relevant stats
Level bonuses
Str +5
Final Stats:
Str 42, Dex 30, Con --, Int 28, Wis 32, Cha 34
Now for his abilities, you are looking for a low magic ridiculous fighter with the ability to dimension door and fast and defensive abilities, I suggest this build.
Fighter (weapon master) 7/ Horizon Walker 3 / Duelist 10
7 Levels of Figher Weapon master get you Weapon training 2, bonuses against sundering his weapon, and the ability to reroll a hit once per day, which is nice when he rolls a 1 and actually misses.
The three levels of horizon walker are basically to get dimension door as a spell like ability usable Wis + 3 times per day, which for you is 14 times. It should be enough. Also, does not hurt BAB, which is nice. I would probably pick his second favored terrain as underground or urban. If you wanted to just give him the ability without the horizon walker you could do that, but this might be fun to to flavor with the fact that his soul can wander a bit through the astral plane when his body is destroyed.
Duelist gives good defensive benefits, and is really flavorful and useful for a Vampire. The ability drain they get at level 10 is pretty sweet too.
For him, I would get him a +5 adamantine vicious dancing life drinker rapier of puncturing and a +5 adamantine Vorpal life drinker rapier of puncturing.
He should hit fairly easily, with a +20 BAB +16 Str +5 weapon +4 weapon training +1 Weapon Focus= +46 or so.
Damage shouldn't be too bad either, d6+ 16 str +10 duelist +4 weapon training, +2 weapon specialization, +5 weapon. Power attack can help this if he needs it, but with the amount of ability damage he can dish out on command, it might be more fun to go with one of the assault feats. More on this later.
After you get this, go with some gloves of dueling, boots of speed, Bracers of Armor +8, Amulet of NA +5, Ring Of Pro +5, Cloak of the Mountebank/+5 resistance and a monk's robe for fun.
Your AC should be about 10 + 8 armor +11 NA +5 deflection +9 Int (duelist ability) + 10 Dex +1 monk +1 dodge= 55AC or so.
+46/41/36/31
d6+ 37 18-20 x2
AC 55
HP ~360 or so
Dimension door 14 x day
As for feats:
Vampires gain Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, and Toughness as bonus feats. For assumptions sake, lets just say he didn't have any of these before he was a vampire.
1. Power Attack
Cleave
Cleaving Finish
2. Weapon Focus Rapier
3. Endurance (needed for Horizon Walker)
4. Weapon Specialization Rapier
5. Fleet
6. Great Cleave
7. Improved Cleaving finish
9. Dimensional Agility
11. Dimensional Assault
13. Dimensional Dervish
15. Improved Critical Rapier
17. Fleet
19. Fleet
Movement 45 (75 when hasted)
Initiative Modifier +20
Ability to teleport during full attack actions up to 150 ft when hasted
Anytime someone dies from his attack he gains an extra attack.
The practical upshot of such a run is that when hasted, he can teleport between attacks, gain as many extra attacks as he kills people. If power attacking, he does about 50 damage on a non critical hit. Not to mention that each attack bestows 2 negative levels.
If you lined up 50 level 6 warriors, he could kill all of them in one round if he did not roll 5 ones in those fifty rolls. I really don't think any more than a demonstration of this would be necessary to put the fear into your players.
All of that is without any special treatment other than the application of his templates and ignoring WBL which is common for any NPC.
If you feel like you still need to up the ante, I would Gestalt him instead of adding demon stuff. A level 20 Warrior, with 7 levels of Sohei monk, 3 HW and 10 duelist would be quite nice.
O.O
Oterisk, that was amazing. I was leaning towards just making him a unique creature with whatever abilities I wanted to give him, but that right there is almost 100% by-the-book and it's still perfect.
I applaud you, my good man!
Well, he will be a unique creature, because you are taking away some of the vampiric weaknesses. Which is cool. But it seemed like from your backstory that you wanted to keep his ties to being a mortal. This brings that flavor for me. Also, I don't DM anymore, and so I think in character levels. I am glad that you like it. :)
Oh, I forgot, but if you wanted to take out one of his "fleet" feats at a higher level and give him Stunning Assault, he could force DC30 fort saves from up to five different players while hasted or be stunned for that round. Add the negative levels, the ability drain from crits and he could have a good chance of TPKing a 20th level party. It would be more fun for him to hit them all once, give them a one liner, and dimension door away.
Inside a castle with secret passages, peekholes behind pictures, murder holes, and the like, he could spy on them, beat them up a bit, retreat, use his fast healing to regen, and come at them again with some hit and run. So many options!
His final CR would be probably 23-24 or so, which makes sense. Although he would be able to give Treerazer a run for his money, but only because being undead makes him immune to his corruption.