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Barbarian/Druid: Wildshape and Rage Powers would fit together nicely I think.
Magus/Cleric: Spell Combat Harm
Barbarian/Martial Artist Monk: Raging Flurry
Sorcerer/Wilder(Dreamscarred Press version): Spell and Power Points, all from Charisma. Maybe dip into Paladin and Oracle of Lore/Nature for even more Charisma goodness.
And why is that? (I'll admit I've yet to use them, but they do seem like a fun experiment.)This thread reminds me why I won't use gestalt rules again.
Hi mdt! :)
Bard/Paladin level 13 -- it's fun until you realize just what all you are letting stack up and move together.
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Hey TOZ, like the new avatar.
Just a temporary change.
And why is that? (I'll admit I've yet to use them, but they do seem like a fun experiment.)
I'd rather build a personal class for the character than mash up two classes worth of stuff. Given the wide variety of classes, such a mash up could be horribly weak or horribly strong.
, but honestly they're no more powerful than normal, they just last longer than 5 minutes before running out of useful spells.
People honestly have that problem at your table? I thought it was a myth.
Also I would be more worried about full BAB/special ability synergy than about rogues -- sneak attack is for the weak.
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From my experience playing in gestalt games (we've played gestalt pretty much exclusively for the last 7 or so years now), Rogue//Any-Full-BAB is utterly broken. You'd think it'd be the double-casters (Wizard//Druid, etc) that would be broken, but honestly they're no more powerful than normal, they just last longer than 5 minutes before running out of useful spells. Full BAB rogues, though, will utterly obliterate any remotely-level-appropriate challenge in a single round.
Equal level Barbarian. Your argument is invalid. :)
Hmmm... not sure which is more powerful. But I have played a couple Gestalt games. I played a Monk/Fighter in one and everyone seemed to agree that it was crazy powerful. In the other one I played a Warlock/Rogue. But since I never got into any fights in the second game I am not sure how it would stack up in comparison.
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Have you ever wanted to play a mechwarrior in your dnd game? One combo that might give you the fell is gunslinger/synthesist summoner. 3 good saves. The only promblem is the synthesist will lower the gunslingers BAB when fused
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon's physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon's hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon's armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon's special abilities and the eidolon's evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon's maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist....
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We had a Barbarian//Rogue once who dealt enough nonlethal damage to kill a level-appropriate creature with maximized hit points from full health (in other words, did twice the creature's hit points in damage to it) in a single full attack. At that point we banned full BAB rogues from future consideration.
And this was before Ultimate Combat, so no Sap Master feats.
How much of that was the Barbarian? Would removing SA from the equation have made a difference? Because there are plenty of ways to remove it. Like I said, an equal level Barbarian is immune to said SA.
We had a Barbarian//Rogue once who dealt enough nonlethal damage to kill a level-appropriate creature with maximized hit points from full health (in other words, did twice the creature's hit points in damage to it) in a single full attack. At that point we banned full BAB rogues from future consideration.
And this was before Ultimate Combat, so no Sap Master feats.
Fighters can do that now easily, single class and without trying hard, while still maintaining great save throws and AC. This isn't difficult.
And why is that? (I'll admit I've yet to use them, but they do seem like a fun experiment.)This thread reminds me why I won't use gestalt rules again.
Hi mdt! :)
Gestalt makes for insanely powerful combination. Some are more powerful than others. Like a Ranger/Wizard has no real weaknesses.
What does MAD stand for?
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the problem isn't full bab plus sneak attack.
the DM allowed random stats, which could give absurdly high bonuses.
Gestalt itself is an extremely high powered Variant not meant for a New DM.
and it seems like a few rules were fudged.
the Roguebarian to do that would need flanking and the chance to make a full attack, or greater invisibility. both of which require an Ally. so this rogue didn't do the extra 147 on his own. he needed teamwork to pull it off. so divide the damage by the number of contributing allies that helped set up this sneak attack and you will see his real damafge.
if we assume that it was a flank partner, we can say the flank partner accounted for 73.5 of the 147. just by providing flank. and that is just me being generous to the roguebarian.
if the haste spells come from boots, we have to track boot rounds. 10 rounds per day.
but if they come from a caster, then the caster, the rogue, and the flank partner each contributed 49 points right there.
the roguebarian did not do the 150 on his own, he either had an accomplice or two each accounting for 73.5 or 49 of his damage respectively.
you see a "disruptive combo", i see teamwork.
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the problem isn't full bab plus sneak attack.
the DM allowed random stats, which could give absurdly high bonuses.
Gestalt itself is an extremely high powered Variant not meant for a New DM.
and it seems like a few rules were fudged.
the Roguebarian to do that would need flanking and the chance to make a full attack, or greater invisibility. both of which require an Ally. so this rogue didn't do the extra 147 on his own. he needed teamwork to pull it off. so divide the damage by the number of contributing allies that helped set up this sneak attack and you will see his real damafge.
if we assume that it was a flank partner, we can say the flank partner accounted for 73.5 of the 147. just by providing flank. and that is just me being generous to the roguebarian.
if the haste spells come from boots, we have to track boot rounds. 10 rounds per day.
but if they come from a caster, then the caster, the rogue, and the flank partner each contributed 49 points right there.
the roguebarian did not do the 150 on his own, he either had an accomplice or two each accounting for 73.5 or 49 of his damage respectively.
you see a "disruptive combo", i see teamwork.
Actually, it is possible that he did it himself. 12th level is high enough to get Greater Beast Totem on the Barb side for pounce, and then on the rogue side, you take the Scout Archetype. There you go, sneak attacking, charging full-attack.
WIz/Druid + Natural spell = a ragelancepouncelightningbolt ;-)
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scout archtype only applies to the first attack. the reason it wasn't worded as such is because gestalt wasn't assumed to be used. because Gestalt was a Variant Rule in a book about Variant Rules that completely change the system. and these abilities were written with pathfinder in mind, not 3.PP, when you bring in 3.5 material, especially variants that explicitly state that they can break your game. expect seemingly broken stuff to come.
Scout’s Charge (Ex)
At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Skirmisher (Ex)
At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.
This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
it also says Attack, Not Attacks. singular, not plural.
Druid/Monk with Shifter (from Eberron) as the race.
Shifter racial abilities plus druid buffs plus monk stuff equals a whirling ball of fur, fangs and claws. He was lots of fun to play.
Ohhhh if we're allowing a combination class to gestault, then I want to try something I've always wanted.
Side 1: Ranger 10/Fighter 10
Side 2: Paladin 10/Mystic Theurge 10EDIT: DAMMIT that doesn't work!
Fine, switch Paladin or Ranger (depending on the nature of the character in question) With Magus.
I see you that and raise with:
Side 1: Wizard 10/Mystic Theurge 5/ Cerebremancer 5Side 2: Cleric 10/ Psion 10
Casts like a wizard 20/psion 15/ cleric 15.
Archer fighter 20/Divine hunter paladin 7/Sniper rogue 13
Might not be as powerfull as I would like it to be, but he sure looks like it would be a fun archer...
Man, and here all I want is a simple monk of the four winds 20/psion (telepath) 10/thrallherd 10. Huh, seems kind of like under achieving now.
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@Fozbeck.
it is a general reccomendation to treat gestalted characters as 2 levels higher than they really are for the purpose of CR. a level 12 Gestalt can easily 1round kill CR 14 opponents, especially classed NPCs.
Classed NPCs (Especially the published kind) tend to lack the equipment that PC's have, and are typically limited to the elite array. these 2 factors, plus steriotypically suboptimal choices tend to make them extremely vulnerable for thier CR.
if this NPC was custom made, we may need to see the build to find out the flaws. we also need the build of the Roguebarian.
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The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus,Don't you use the higher BAB in gestalt rules? That rulue doesn't take Gestalt rules into account after all, and there was an errate on it concerning multiclass builds.
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.
If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus,Don't you use the higher BAB in gestalt rules? That rulue doesn't take Gestalt rules into account after all, and there was an errate on it concerning multiclass builds.
incorrect. You use the editions BAB for that class level just like with any other class combination. Ftr 19/ranger 1 has a BAB of +20, just like a Ftr19/synthesist 1 has a BAB of +20 when fused. That's already been addressed.
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incorrect. You use the editions BAB for that class level just like with any other class combination. Ftr 19/ranger 1 has a BAB of +20, just like a Ftr19/synthesist 1 has a BAB of +20 when fused. That's already been addressed.If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus,Don't you use the higher BAB in gestalt rules? That rulue doesn't take Gestalt rules into account after all, and there was an errate on it concerning multiclass builds.
Depends on how you look at psionic power point rules: if they are allowed to stack with each other (as was written in 3.5) to form one big pool, then a Psion 20/Psychic Warrior 20 is death on two legs!
Even if you have to keep them seperate, it is a really, really strong gestalt build!
Another good one is Fighter (or Barbarian or Ranger) 20/Soulknife 20. You get a +9 weapon for free, one that can never be taken away or sundered or stolen. On top of the other abilities a soulknife gets, and all of your fighter bonus feats (and weapons training and armor training, etc., etc.) or your ranger/barbarian stuff.
In fact, one of the few times I have ever played in gestalt game, my character was a 12th level Dwarven fighter/soulknife. He took the feat from Dragon magazine that let you change to a bludgeoning weapon, so technically he was a Soulhammer. Plenty of fun, he was too.
Master Arminas
Synth and BAB errata linkincorrect. You use the editions BAB for that class level just like with any other class combination. Ftr 19/ranger 1 has a BAB of +20, just like a Ftr19/synthesist 1 has a BAB of +20 when fused. That's already been addressed.If you had a 19 levels if fighter and 1 level in synthesist when fused you would have a BAB of 1. It would work the same way in a gestalt game.The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus,Don't you use the higher BAB in gestalt rules? That rulue doesn't take Gestalt rules into account after all, and there was an errate on it concerning multiclass builds.
The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.
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The link doesnt prove your point. Though admittedly it doesnt prove mine either.
What.
For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).
This is not 3.0 Monk Unarmed BAB.
I'd probably do something non-superstrong like a court bard/master spy + full sorcerer. Charisma-based full caster with loads of social and knowledge skills and skill-based abilities.
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Not when the NPCs/monsters all have maximum hit points. Which I've stated three times now. Also, we usually gestalt NPCs as well, at least the important ones.@Fozbeck.
it is a general reccomendation to treat gestalted characters as 2 levels higher than they really are for the purpose of CR. a level 12 Gestalt can easily 1round kill CR 14 opponents, especially classed NPCs.
by maximum hit points, what do you mean?
that they are at full hit points?
or that you maximized each hit die?
or both?
i'm pretty Sure AM BARBARIAN deals a lot more damage.