Best Cavalier feats

[Wraithcannon]

I'm building an Gnome Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier and wanted some feat selection advice. He's for PFS play so no 3rd party stuff.

Here is what I've come up with so far
.

1st Mounted Combat
2nd Dazzling Display for free (with the Braggart ability)
3rd Ride By Attack
5th Power Attack
6th Wheeling Charge
7th Spirited Charge
9th Furious Focus
11th Dreadful Carnage
12th Mounted Blade

Teamwork feats are

1st Precise Strike
9th Outflank

Since he's riding a medium mount (wolf then boar), I avoided the Trample and Mounted Onslaught feats and since Cavaliers are so feat starved compared to fighters, I skipped the Shield Focus-Mounted Shield combo. I also thought about Fearsome Finish but I'm not ready to become a worshipper of Lamashtu.

Thoughts?

[randall793]

How do you see your character's combat role?
Mobile fighter or Tank or Fear debuffer?

If you plan for double damage lanced charge attacks then feats than the mobility tree is what you're after.

[Wraithcannon]

A mix of all three depending on the situation. It's PFS so you never know what sort of group you'll be placed with.

Mobility tree? As in Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack?

If that's what you were talking about, please read Ride-By Attack and get back to me.

[Bart Vervaet]

Right now I'm playing a halfling cavalier in a kingmaker game.

I took the gnedarme archetype from ultimate combat and play him as a very mobile damage dealer. At lvl 3 I can seriously outdamage the 18 str human barbarian with a greatsword.

If you want to go mounted combat I think the gendarme is the way to go. You lose the teamwork feats but gain some extra combat feats instead.

my build is something like (20 point buy) str 14 dex 16 con 12 int 10 wis 10 cha 14

feats
mounted combat (lvl 1)
ride by attack (lvl1 bonus gendarme)
spirited charge (lvl 3)

with a masterwork lance I am at +7 to hit for 1d6+2 dam
when charging it becomes +11 for 3d6 +6 or +12 for 3d6 +15 when I use my challenge (order of the sword)

Later on I'm still trying to decide which feats to take: Power attack seems nice, or maybe shield focus and mounted shield to become almost untouchable

As a cavalier you should also keep your ride skill as high as possible as the "negate the first hit on your mount with a ride check" is very nice

[Mike Schneider]

Feats which protect your mount are more important than damage exploits -- if you cause a lot of damage while mounted, enemies will target your mount to nerf you.

01 fight1 [dragoon][Mounted Combat][Skill Focus:Ride], Ride by Attack
02 cava1
03 cava2 [Cockatrice:Dazzling Display], Spirited Charge
04 cava3
05 cava4 Indomitable Mount
06 cava5
07 cava6 [Shatter Defenses], Leadership (for rogue cohort who "mops up")
08 fight2 Horse Master (like Boon Companion, but no limit)
09 fight3 Weapon Focus:Lance
10 fight4 Weapon Specialization:Lance
11 fight5 [Weapon Training:Spear Group]
12 fight6 Power Attack (would take earlier, but we use lance one-handed)
13 cava7 [challenge 3/day]

Weapon Training + Gloves of Dueling + Power Attack + cavalier damage bonus + rogue/barbarian cohort coup de gracing flat-footed lingerers = battlefield engine of carnage.

[Helaman]

You are a bad bad man Mike... I hope that mind of yours is never turned to 'Evil'.

You forgot to add 4 1st level commoners to act as burial squad.

[Mike Schneider]

That build has an extra feat at first level if human, so scroll 'em all up accordingly if so.

[Sir Bingham]

This is Wraithcannon, posting as my PFS character in case you want to look at my stats.

Thanks for some great advice all.

Was planning on going straight Cavalier but that cav 6 fighter 6 build is nasty, maybe I'll try that next time. I'd have to pass on the shatter defenses and leadership though (No guarantee there will be a rogue in the random group I'm assigned to play with and Leadership is not allowed in PFS play).

The Gendarme archtype is nice too, wish I had UC when I had started this character. My only problem is that there are only 4 good feats listed out of the bonus feat selection, so you have to spread them out over the course of 11 levels or get stuck blowing them on less than stellar choices.

For example Bart, you took 3 of the 4 right away. Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, and Spirited Charge. While this makes you very powerful in the short term, the only one left on the list that's worth a damn is Power Attack.

That leaves Improved Bull Rush (small guy on a medium mount, not happening, not even if it were Trample), Spring Attack (already have ride by attack, where is this useful), and Unseat (only good vs another mounted foe, situational at best, plus not that many mounted bad guys in PSF).

So if I were going to take Gendarme, and incorporate Mike's advice about protecting my mount, with the PFS 12 level cap I think my build would look like this as a straight cav.

1st mounted combat, shield focus
2nd (Dazzling Display)
3rd mounted shield
5th ride by attack, indomitable mount
7th wheeling charge
8th power attack
9th mounted blade
11th spirited charge

Kind of sucks taking spirited charge so late in the build but I really saw no other choice if I didn't want to blow a feat on something that wasn't useful, and crunching the numbers makes me think PA is better than SC damagewise.

[Mike Schneider]

Don't forget your mount's feats.

[Sir Bingham]

Mike Schneider wrote:

Don't forget your mount's feats.

I was hoping you'd say that.

As of yet I have no idea what feats to give my wolf, then my boar when 4th level arrives.

Someone in another thread mentioned Dragon Style, but is that legal?

What would you do?

[Mike Schneider]

Sir Bingham wrote:

This is Wraithcannon, posting as my PFS character in case you want to look at my stats.

Thanks for some great advice all.

Was planning on going straight Cavalier but that cav 6 fighter 6 build is nasty, maybe I'll try that next time. I'd have to pass on the shatter defenses and leadership though (No guarantee there will be a rogue in the random group I'm assigned to play with and Leadership is not allowed in PFS play).

IMO it is inadvisable to play a cavalier in PFS unless you are a small race -- far too many dungeon crawls which prevent easy entry of large mounts.

I'd recommend a gnome fight[dragoon]2/samurai(10) over a cavalier for PFS.

Make sure your medium mount plus saddle/tack/barding weighs less than 250lbs, and you can have it march into a cheap Bag of Holding for passage behind choke points which restrict even medium mounts (examples: buildings where NPCs restricts animal entry, teleportation circles without enough "spaces", vertical shafts with smooth walls, etc). ....otherwise buy a wand or scrolls of Reduce Animal, and take the Dangerously Curious trait to be able to UMD them. (Note that a BoH only has ten minutes of air in it.)

[Sir Bingham]

Thanks, I like the bag of holding idea, add a bottle of air and he can stay in there as long as he wants.

I am a gnome cavalier riding a wolf, soon to be boar.

I'm gonna go straight Cavalier as an exploration into the class. For me PFS scenarios are rarley a challenge, so metagming the class build isn't what I want, I'd rather metagame a single class (I said I wasn't challenged, but I'm not suicidal). Until I find a regular campaign, PFS is what I'm using to play things I've never tried before.

I'm going to definately take indomnitable mount and get a bag of holding, but now that I'm skipping wheeling charge, I need my mount to be able to be more agile on the charge.

I was thinking that at 4th level I'd boost the Boar's intelligence to 3 when I get him. This will allow me to design him with Improved Unarmed Strike (hoof) and then get Dragon Style. This will allow the boar to move through allies and difficult terrain on the charge.

He's going to max out at 5 feats, so I was considering dodge, mobility, spring attack. That way he will eventually be able to make an attack as we move past using my Ride By Attack feat. If he had one more, I would get lunge so he would have the same reach as my lance.

So, for a boar mount with 5 feats, being ridden by a small cavalier with the above build (minus wheeling charge for indomnitable mount) would you change anything? Take Med and Hvy Armor proficiency's vs the mobility tree?

Thanks

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

Boars are almost begging for Diehard. I know it's not the best feat mechanically, but it's good RP, as is Toughness.

I was very happy with lightning reflexes on my 3.5 mounted paladin. The area effect spells were the worst, can't avoid with mounted combat, can't purchase barding for your reflex save either.

When you factor in evasion, it becomes even more worth it, in my opinion.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

Also consider that there will be times when you just can't use your mount in PFS. Spending a feat on Plan B isn't the worst thing that you can do.

Remember, we optimize strengths, but we also reduce weaknesses.

How do you plan to deal with narrow sewers, flying monsters, or boats (Absalom IS an island, you know)

[Sir Bingham]

rkraus2 wrote:

Boars are almost begging for Diehard. I know it's not the best feat mechanically, but it's good RP, as is Toughness.

I was very happy with lightning reflexes on my 3.5 mounted paladin. The area effect spells were the worst, can't avoid with mounted combat, can't purchase barding for your reflex save either.

When you factor in evasion, it becomes even more worth it, in my opinion.

Lighnting reflexes is worthless if I'm using indomnitable mount to make the boars saves................

[Dessio]

Mike Schneider wrote:

IMO it is inadvisable to play a cavalier in PFS unless you are a small race -- far too many dungeon crawls which prevent easy entry of large mounts.

Speaking as a medium sized cavalier for PFS-

it's certainly doable. Dangerously Curious trait for UMD to be class skill, and keep a ream of scrolls of Reduce Animal. If a GM would allow a Druid's large sized animal companion, you point out then that he shouldn't have any trouble allowing a large sized horse as an animal companion. If 5' spaces are an issue, burn one of your scrolls. If ladders or other hoof-unfriendly terrain obstacles arise, fire off a scroll of spider climb (on the horse, naturally). Treat it like a druid's animal companion whenever the terrain doesn't allow for riding it as a mount (which will be almost all of the time). Plus, if you fight NEXT to your mount rather than astride it, you and mount can both take the teamwork feat precise strike (eventually, anyway) and you'll always have at least one combatant at a collection of random partymates that makes a PFS table that has the shared feat w/o needing to spend tactician ability...

You'll only rarely get to ride a mount in combat in PFS, but you can fight alongside it virtually all the time. In my case, I've had exactly 3 opportunities to perform a mounted charge, in 13 chronicles. (due to the constricted nature of indoor/underground adventures, still wouldn't have that many more opportunities were I Small sized and riding a med sized mount.)

First TWO times I had the chance I rolled a g**$&@ned '1' to hit on my lance charge anyway, so I consider myself fortunate that I never even started the mounted combat chain, and instead focused on Power Attack chain (usable equally well whether on foot or mounted) and 'Face' abilities. Since my horse is usually a 'druid in plate's animal companion', I'm rarely astride it in combat anyway and mounted combat feat tree seems a large waste for PFS.. only in a home game where the GM caters a campaign to outdoorsy/horselords style adventures would they be really worth it. You don't NEED to throw those huge spirited charge+lance hits to succesfully complete PFS adventures. Indeed, there are more than a few times PFS scenarios will just be utterly unaccomodating to mounts of any size.. if all your feats and abilities revolve around being mounted, you'll be severely gimped in that sizable minority of PFS scenarios.

EDIT- Best use of Mounted Combat feat: Keeping the decidedly non-beefy horse summoned by your Wand of Mount alive. Of course you took the wand because you've had one too many PFS GMs who tell you at the start of an adventure that you can't your bonded mount along 'because he said so'. I'm contemplating the feat at my next level for that very reason.

[Slaughterwombat]

*LIGHTBULB!*
That use of bag of holding for Med. mounts is GENIUS. I still have a lot of encounters at the bottoms of ladders/ropes/ponds, but this would negate the whole "I haul my wolf/velociraptor up with a rope" lameness.
I couldn't really reccomend a medium cavalier with a large mount in most campaigns. Just too much of a headache.

[Mcloudconno]

feats for cavalier tank?

[Gherrick]

While debatable to some, I like the (Improved/Greater) Overrun + Charge Through combo. One of the few ways to get multiple attacks per round on a charge (and wheeling charge means you can make it happen more often). If you don't need to Charge Through, you can still Charge/Overrun to knock prone and get a follow-up attack.

[Umbranus]

Wraithcannon wrote:

Teamwork feats are

1st Precise Strike
9th Outflank

I'd exchange precise strike for soemthing else. Like escape route.

[stuart haffenden]

Don't forget the Narrow Frame feat for your companion.

[Mathius]

As far as I know the rules for charging while mounted mean that your mount charges and you do whatever. If you attack at the end of your mounts charge you gain all the benefits of the charge. I think your mount will get to attack if you use ride by attack.

I am not sure why the ruling have gone this way but it does allow a cleave or vital strike on a charge.

I know I read somewhere that feats that require a mount and charging should you when you are mounted and your mount charges...

In my game the halflings mount has improved/greater overrun and charge through + combat reflexes. The wolf always has feather step going so difficult terrain is not a problem.

This usually leads to charge that ignores difficult terrain and can knock prone 2 foes witch suffer an AoO plus one of them also receives a lance charge.

It is home game but a custom collar of reduce animal is nice. A large wolf with reduce animal is better then a boar.

[Degoon Squad]

My cavalier teams up with a Rouge ,a Paladin and a Barbarian. so I use Broken wing Gambit a lot. Yeah I get hit by a big Evil guy while standing between a foaming at the Mouth barbarian and Paladin with a ton Of Holy buffs. .

[strangepork]

i am missing something. You clearly put a point to get INt to 3 for your boar so it can learn any skills, not just animal skills, but i am unclear what skills you wanted to buy. I assume a pre req for a feat, but i am missing what feat.

Little help for a gnome cav please?

[strangepork]

And I read more and now see you took it not for the 'any skills' effect but the 'any feat' effect, my bad, mystery solved

[leronix]

Im looking into mounted combat.. and i think ill dip into druid first, just to unlock the roc animal companion. That will be my mount as a halfling. The early lvls ill be limited. I would half to ant haul to be able to fly. Then ill dragoon with boon companion, just to pick up some feats. And maybe finish off with mad dog barbarian.

[Alexandre Gayk-Lemay]

Hello, I am currently playing a Cavalier in a Rise of the Runelords campaign and I would like to contribute to this thread. Mike (see above) and I think alike in regards to the early level of Dragoon Fighter. Much of my usefulness in mounted combat also relies on Wheeling Charge. I also agree with the prioritization of Indomitable Mount.

My damage output relies on a Lance, wielded with 2 hands (Skill Focus Ride makes guiding a charging mount with one's knees rather easy) supplemented with Power Attack and Furious Focus. Combined with Spirited Charge, the extra point of damage from a 2 handed Power Attack quickly turns into a ton of damage (and of course Spirited Charge turns your Challenge-related bonus damage into a considerable threat). But that's not what I signed-in to talk about.

I recommend increasing mount Int to 3 as soon as possible, so that it might gain access to Acrobatic Steps and Nimble Moves. These two feats will allow your mount to charge through up to 4 squares of difficult terrain. If you have access to Wheeling Charge, great and terrible things can be done this way.
My mount never attacks, as it always carries me to devastating charges. It has the Charger archetype so that it might avoid being slowed by armor. I prioritized mobility because of access to Wheeling Charge - if that were not accessible, I would have had to invest in Power Attack, Improved Overrun and Charge Through for the mount (if I understand the rules correctly... and let's just say that my choice to opt for Wheeling Charge to facilitate Ride-By Attacks is due to my fuzziness on the Overrun stuff while mounted).

Speaking of the mount, you may think that Horseshoes of Speed are a bit expensive at 3000gp, and that may be true in a Society context where you don't need a movement allowance of 16 squares per move action. However, please take the massive bonus to Acrobatics checks made to jump into account before discouting its usefulness. My wizard likes to summon pits, and I'm glad for the horseshoes.

Regarding Tactical feats, I've found that my allies appreciate Escape Route both to enter and exit combat, particularly when my Large mount allows them to move wherever the heck they want. The Advanced Class Guide has added Distracting Charge to the mix as well. I believe I saw something in there about riding undersized mounts, as well. Exciting new stuff for cavalierkind!

[CommandoDude]

I would advise for your Teamwork feat to select Lookout. If you get a Horsemaster's Saddle for your mount, and have your mount take the Bodyguard archetype, you can always act in a surprise round as long as you're within arms reach of your mount when initiative is called (which you should always be).

Alexandre Gayk-Lemay wrote:

I recommend increasing mount Int to 3 as soon as possible, so that it might gain access to Acrobatic Steps and Nimble Moves. These two feats will allow your mount to charge through up to 4 squares of difficult terrain. If you have access to Wheeling Charge, great and terrible things can be done this way.

Dude, Horseshoes of Zephyr are cheap and do the exact same thing except way better and you don't have to waste 2 feats and a stat bump on it.

Don't bother with 3 int, there isn't any real compelling reason.

[666bender]

Wraithcannon wrote:

I'm building an Gnome Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier and wanted some feat selection advice. He's for PFS play so no 3rd party stuff.

Here is what I've come up with so far
.

1st Mounted Combat
2nd Dazzling Display for free (with the Braggart ability)
3rd Ride By Attack
5th Power Attack
6th Wheeling Charge
7th Spirited Charge
9th Furious Focus
11th Dreadful Carnage
12th Mounted Blade

Teamwork feats are

1st Precise Strike
9th Outflank

Since he's riding a medium mount (wolf then boar), I avoided the Trample and Mounted Onslaught feats and since Cavaliers are so feat starved compared to fighters, I skipped the Shield Focus-Mounted Shield combo. I also thought about Fearsome Finish but I'm not ready to become a worshipper of Lamashtu.

Thoughts?

if you ask me - you are too focused on charging.

you will be able to 1 shot everything, nut charges arent alwsys optional. aerial combat, terrain, allies and foe - all stand in your way. i like cavalier, but i make sure i am able to both attack beside and on my mount.
you wont be #1 DPR - but you will never be #0 as well.

[CommandoDude]

666bender wrote:

if you ask me - you are too focused on charging.
you will be able to 1 shot everything, nut charges arent alwsys optional. aerial combat, terrain, allies and foe - all stand in your way. i like cavalier, but i make sure i am able to both attack beside and on my mount.
you wont be #1 DPR - but you will never be #0 as well.

Not even close. He will be lucky to oneshot anything passed level 6. Unlike other classes, the Cavalier's damage output falls off MUCH faster compared to other classes as they get more and more iteratives.

Even with Order of the Sword's lvl 8 order power (which he isn't going for) you will still start lagging behind Full BAB characters, especially archers.

[Sereinái]

CommandoDude wrote:

Don't bother with 3 int, there isn't any real compelling reason.

While probably sub-par I would love to have a horse that uses Dazzling Display on the turn after we charge into the fray. I'd be hard pressed not to name it Nightmare.

It might be a fair idea if you want more teamwork feats on your partner as well

[Gark the Goblin]

CommandoDude wrote:

Not even close. He will be lucky to oneshot anything passed level 6. Unlike other classes, the Cavalier's damage output falls off MUCH faster compared to other classes as they get more and more iteratives.

Even with Order of the Sword's lvl 8 order power (which he isn't going for) you will still start lagging behind Full BAB characters, especially archers.

Lucky as in rolling above 1, yes. As a horselord (order of the sword) cavalier 9/mammoth rider 4, I'm on par with our flurrying monk (both dealing 150-200 per round). Charge is a really good thing to focus on because there are so many damage-multiplying options with it, for cavaliers.

"Sereinái"[/quote wrote:

While probably sub-par I would love to have a horse that uses Dazzling Display on the turn after we charge into the fray. I'd be hard pressed not to name it Nightmare.

It might be a fair idea if you want more teamwork feats on your partner as well

It's also a good option if you want the mount to pick up Greater Overrun and get you a chance at an AOO.

[Garitjax]

CommandoDude wrote:

I would advise for your Teamwork feat to select Lookout. If you get a Horsemaster's Saddle for your mount, and have your mount take the Bodyguard archetype, you can always act in a surprise round as long as you're within arms reach of your mount when initiative is called (which you should always be).

Alexandre Gayk-Lemay wrote:

I recommend increasing mount Int to 3 as soon as possible, so that it might gain access to Acrobatic Steps and Nimble Moves. These two feats will allow your mount to charge through up to 4 squares of difficult terrain. If you have access to Wheeling Charge, great and terrible things can be done this way.

Dude, Horseshoes of Zephyr are cheap and do the exact same thing except way better and you don't have to waste 2 feats and a stat bump on it.

Don't bother with 3 int, there isn't any real compelling reason.

Vital strike with a mount that has a powerful charge attack seems like it could be nice. IE a triceratops at mount lvl 7(20str) would have a gore attack on a charge that would deal 4d8+10 damage. If the mount is given power attack as well it would be 4d8+14 at the same level. Or combined with improved Natural attacks(Gore) it could do 6d8 with Vital strike. Improved vital strike would be late in the build but could offer as much as 9d8 from the mounts Gore.

It should also be noted that the companions version of powerful charge is not as strong as the wild animal version. A triceratops normal gore is 2d10 and a PC of 4d10 while the companion's gore is 2d6 with a PC of 2d8.