Ranged / Bow Specific feats to take

[pylfer]

Hey all,

So I'm trying to think ahead for my ranger build and have come to a bit of a dead end... I want to build the best Ranger that I can that is strictly a bow user.

Right now I'm level 8 with the following:

Point-Blank Shot (+1ATK/DMG within 30ft)
Precise Shot (No -4 to in combat)
Rapid Shot (Full attacks net one extra attack all at -2 to hit)
Weapon Focus [Long Bow] (+1 ATK with selected weapon)
Many Shot (Full attack, first shot fires 2 arrows)
Snap Shot (You provoke attacks of opportunity with ranged weapons - 5ft)

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be picking up the following:
Deadly Aim (Trade Attack Bonus for Damage)
and
Improved Snap Shot (Attack of opportunity ranged increased by 10ft - 15ft threat range)

After that I don't know what I want to take... There seems like there's a fair amount of things that would be beneficial, but I'm just looking for some input.

This game is going all the way to lvl20 over the course of the next 5 months and I'm just wanting to get the feat situation out of the way ahead of time.

Anyway, any input would be much appreciated!

[kyrt-ryder]

You will have problems if something closes to melee range with Reach or Step Up.

[Callarek]

Depending on whether you have added the Seeking quality to your bow, you might want to consider Improved Precise Shot.

Greater Snap Shot, the bonuses to hit and confirm, nice.

If you are running into things with Hardness, CLustered Shots

Point-Blank Master, you do not provoke with your WF weapon.

Combat Reflexes is something you should take, to combine with Snap Shot/Improved Snap Shot. More AoOs never hurts.

Improved Critical, maybe. Probably none of the other Critical feats, though.

Far Shot, if you are getting into long distance encounters where it matters.

Also consider items, like Greater Bracers of Archery

Spells, like Abundant Ammunition, Reduce Person & Gravity Bow

[kyrt-ryder]

Point Blank Master requires Weapon Specialization, which Rangers don't get, regrettably.

EDIT: wups, Rangers can take it as a ranged Combat Style bonus feat. Go for it then!

[evilash]

Since the ranger doesn't have to fulfill the prerequisites for his combat style feats I would actually dump Point Blank Shot. The key feats for an archer would be Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Deadly Aim, and Snap Shot.

[Mike Schneider]

pylfer wrote:

I want to build the best Ranger that I can that is strictly a bow user.

This is what we call a "one-trick pony".

Caveat emptor.

-- I.e., what do you do in fog, or underwater, or when sunder monsters are attacking?

You'll have a lot more fun with something like this:

Build: DEX (high), STR (low, but not lower than 14.)

01 rang1 Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting
02 rang2 [Archery][Rapid Shot]

-- You are now a switch-hitter killer at 2nd-level who can handle anything:

* Rapid Shot opponents more than 30' away not in melee.
* TWF opponents up to 10' away.
* Charge opponents 15-30' away w/greatsword.

[james maissen]

evilash wrote:

Since the ranger doesn't have to fulfill the prerequisites for his combat style feats I would actually dump Point Blank Shot. The key feats for an archer would be Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Deadly Aim, and Snap Shot.

I would disagree with snap shot over improved precise shot.

Also a ranger can ignore the prereqs only for their bonus feats, which means that precise shot, rapid shot, and improved precise shot would all have to be bonus feats..

But if you don't value improved precise shot (which I do highly as its early access is one of the archer ranger's advantages over a fighter archer) then you could do so if you wouldn't mind delaying one of rapid shot/ precise shot until 6th level.

-James

[TheSideKick]

Mike Schneider wrote:

pylfer wrote:

I want to build the best Ranger that I can that is strictly a bow user.

This is what we call a "one-trick pony".

Caveat emptor.

-- I.e., what do you do in fog, or underwater, or when sunder monsters are attacking?

You'll have a lot more fun with something like this:

Build: DEX (high), STR (low, but not lower than 14.)

01 rang1 Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting
02 rang2 [Archery][Rapid Shot]

-- You are now a switch-hitter killer at 2nd-level who can handle anything:

* Rapid Shot opponents more than 30' away not in melee.
* TWF opponents up to 10' away.
* Charge opponents 15-30' away w/greatsword.

why does this guy ALWAYS tell people their idea of what they want to play is wrong, or inferior?

[leo1925]

TheSideKick wrote:

why does this guy ALWAYS tell people their idea of what they want to play is wrong, or inferior?

To be fair i don't think that he said that his idea was inferior, only wrong (i disagree with that btw).

Also i think that improved precise shot is a very needed feat for any archer whose DM knows the cover rules and uses them.

[Mike Schneider]

Thanks for the diplo assist, Leo ... ;-) ....but I'll be outright blunt and reject it, since the entire point of an Advice forum is to give it.

One-trick-pony builds stink -- They're overpowered and cake-walk encounters...until their schtick is thwarted, at which point they have no back-up option and cry about how unfair everything is.

Seen it a million times -- don't do it. (Few things are more pathetic than watching the expression on a player's face when the Glabrezu he's furiously flailing against in melee reaches out and crushes his weapon like a Styrofoam cup; if the player has like over half his WBL invested in that one item and only has a dull butter-knife for secondary, he'll blubber like a little girl. Bowstrings in particular have crummy hardness/HP -- sometimes it's that 3rd-level gnome rogue with a wireclippers who you have to watch out for.)

Note that the 2-level build provided contains exactly one feat (Quick Draw) which could be accounted "additional" in any high-DEX build (they usually get around to TWF at some point anyway). Imagine yourself at 13th level or so, and run down all of your feats; imagine you take the least-useful one of the bunch and change it to Quick Draw, then give yourself three good weapons instead of a single uber one.

Quick Draw is arguably the most under-rated feat in the game.

[pylfer]

Alright! Thank you all for the input. I think that I have a general overview for the time being.

When we get to the next level up or so I'll probably end up taking something like quick draw and weapon finese or something like that in order to be more viable in melee situations.

As well, the Precise Shot, Improved stuff will be a for sure. as well as a few other things.

Thanks again!

[John Spalding]

Switch hitting should switch to a 2hander. Quick draw costs an action. That action would often be spent moving in anyhow (and you can draw while moving in). So the feat is ok. If you really want to swap, you don't need Quick Draw.

At low level I think swapping to a 2Hander is fine, especially if you have 14+ str. It stays fine over time, maybe grab PA if your weapon is enchanted and your strength stays good.

At higher level IF your dex is way higher than strength, I would be tempted to grab weapon finesse and an agile weapon as a backup.

I think getting your archery feats in order at low level is a priority (RS, PBS, PS). From there you can diversify out.

[Mike Schneider]

1) Quick Draw is a free-action (that's the point of it).

Take it, and the whole, new, delightfully fun and varied world of the Switch-hitter opens up for you, whether you're the DEX18/STR18 guy who pulls out a greatsword, or the DEX26/STR10 type who duals agile blades.

2) You'll find that not only do your allies appreciate you occasionally bringing your fresh mountain of hitpoints into melee, but you enjoy it so much that you delay Precise Shot until later on.

[leo1925]

Mike Schneider wrote:

Thanks for the diplo assist, Leo ... ;-) ....but I'll be outright blunt and reject it, since the entire point of an Advice forum is to give it.

One-trick-pony builds stink -- They're overpowered and cake-walk encounters...until their schtick is thwarted, at which point they have no back-up option and cry about how unfair everything is.

Seen it a million times -- don't do it. (Few things are more pathetic than watching the expression on a player's face when the Glabrezu he's furiously flailing against in melee reaches out and crushes his weapon like a Styrofoam cup; if the player has like over half his WBL invested in that one item and only has a dull butter-knife for secondary, he'll blubber like a little girl. Bowstrings in particular have crummy hardness/HP -- sometimes it's that 3rd-level gnome rogue with a wireclippers who you have to watch out for.)

Note that the 2-level build provided contains exactly one feat (Quick Draw) which could be accounted "additional" in any high-DEX build (they usually get around to TWF at some point anyway). Imagine yourself at 13th level or so, and run down all of your feats; imagine you take the least-useful one of the bunch and change it to Quick Draw, then give yourself three good weapons instead of a single uber one.

Quick Draw is arguably the most under-rated feat in the game.

I hear you but for me the most important drawback of one trick ponies is that they are boring, happened to me with a single classed warlock in expedition to castle Ravenloft and also during Kingmaker with a switch hitter*.

*Although the character was a switch hitter, due to insane rolled stats and the majority of the group not knowing the cover rules well, was so much better at archery than 2handing and starting using almost exclusively archery, well after 5 sessions i got bored with that.

[ThePreacher]

Improved precise shot ignores cover which means you can shoot into melee without penalty. It is incredibly valuable. You will need combat reflexes at some point to make the most of snap shot. The problem with taking something like quick draw is that it uses up a feat that can make your archery so much better. With Snap shot and point blank master your bow is your melee weapon. Yes you need a backup but as was pointed out if someone sundered your weapon take a 5 foot step and draw your backup. As a ranger you have a full BAB so you can use your two hander (or dual - but that takes another feat you dont have to spare).

As an archer ranger you are not a one trick pony, you have spells and a pet that can help any party. Why water down your awesome archery by taking melee feats that you will hardly use. I guarantee you that point blank master or improved precise shot will save your party more often that quick draw.

[Claxon]

This thread is from 2011. I highly doubt that the OP needs advice about the character any longer.

[Timothy Bow]

Claxon wrote:

This thread is from 2011. I highly doubt that the OP needs advice about the character any longer.

Probably not, but sometimes other people will read it instead of asking the same question in a new thread.

[Thormind]

leo1925 wrote:

TheSideKick wrote:

why does this guy ALWAYS tell people their idea of what they want to play is wrong, or inferior?

To be fair i don't think that he said that his idea was inferior, only wrong (i disagree with that btw).

Also i think that improved precise shot is a very needed feat for any archer whose DM knows the cover rules and uses them.

A seeking bow saves you a feat...

[lorenlord]

I'm a big fan of Point-Blank Master. my Ranger had it, and flanked with our Rogue often.

[Ramuh]

james maissen wrote:

evilash wrote:

Since the ranger doesn't have to fulfill the prerequisites for his combat style feats I would actually dump Point Blank Shot. The key feats for an archer would be Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Deadly Aim, and Snap Shot.

I would disagree with snap shot over improved precise shot.

Also a ranger can ignore the prereqs only for their bonus feats, which means that precise shot, rapid shot, and improved precise shot would all have to be bonus feats..

But if you don't value improved precise shot (which I do highly as its early access is one of the archer ranger's advantages over a fighter archer) then you could do so if you wouldn't mind delaying one of rapid shot/ precise shot until 6th level.

-James

I know I'm new to Paizo, but not new to D&D or pathfinder. One trick ponies are actually fun, because combat is only one portion of the game. Plus during combat you can always use your abilities in new ways with creative ideas. I am currently rocking a fighter who is exclusively Longbow specialized and no part of combat has become boring because when you focus on one aspect you can maneuver around and make that aspect fun every combat. Mine is a priest (not cleric) who began as a zealot against certain religions, then became more humble and pious, but he used almost exclusively a longbow. So it is all about how you play it.

[gatherer818]

Ramuh wrote:

I know I'm new to Paizo, but not new to D&D or pathfinder. One trick ponies are actually fun, because combat is only one portion of the game. Plus during combat you can always use your abilities in new ways with creative ideas. I am currently rocking a fighter who is exclusively Longbow specialized and no part of combat has become boring because when you focus on one aspect you can maneuver around and make that aspect fun every combat. Mine is a priest (not cleric) who began as a zealot against certain religions, then became more humble and pious, but he used almost exclusively a longbow. So it is all about how you play it.

4-year necro, not bad. Not sure what caster level you are, but I'm glad you cast the res when you did, wouldn't have been long before you had to bump up to true res just to get the thread moving again ^_^