Best Ninja Tricks?


Advice


HI all! Me and my friends recently got into a campaign, and we're all starting at level 3. I normally play support types, but this time I decided to roll up a ninja. First of all, thank you Paizo for giving me an excuse to pump charisma. I love bluff and diplomacy, and now I don't have to feel guilty for not dumping charisma. Second, I'm really enjoying the ninja class so far. The ability to go invisible as a swift action helps me sneak attack at range, and the extra attack in a full attack really helps me tear it up in melee. This is on top of all the fun out of combat skills I've got going on.

That being said, I'm not really sure where to go from here. There's a lot of tricks I want, but I'm not sure how effective they all will be. Here's my character at the moment:

HUMAN NINJA 3

STR 12
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 14

FEATS
Weapon Finesse
Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus (Wakizashi)

NINJA TRICKS
Vanishing Trick

GEAR
2x MW Wakizashi
MW Chain Shirt
Cloak of Resistance
Wand of CLW

This was pretty easy to get to, and before you ask, I am married to the two weapon finesse build. My problem is, I'm not sure where to branch out from here. I know I want Pirahna Strike, Dodge, and Fort/Will feats. I've got plenty of time for those. My problem is, what are the best ninja tricks to take as you level? I'm basically attracted to every single one of them. I can really see myself using every trick, so I'm coming to the forums for advice to see which ones you all think are best. Thanks for the advice!

P.S. What are your favorite traits, as well? Those aren't quite set in stone yet, and it's another area where I'm pretty torn.


I'm partial to Pressure Points and Bleeding Trick. I like tricks that I don't have to spend Ki on. The ones that use Ki are good too, but you'll likely have enough uses of your ki pool as it is from your standard uses.

Grand Lodge

Forgotten Trick. Lets you do basically anything. Vanishing trick is good for going on the offensive, but I've found that with gang up it's never really a problem, so I would highly recommend using Shadow Clones.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I don't like the super expensive Forgotten Trick now. I like Pressure Points, or Offensive Defense (as stolen from Rogue). Offensive D also works great when you ki up an extra attack (which is an excellent way to spend ki).

The mirror image trick is nice too. To be honest, I don't really like the inferior invis trick. I would take it later, as a prereq for improved invis trick. Until then I'd prefer to have the mirror images. It's a standard action, but it can be a very nice buff to have.

Grand Lodge

Petty Alchemy wrote:

I don't like the super expensive Forgotten Trick now. I like Pressure Points, or Offensive Defense (as stolen from Rogue). Offensive D also works great when you ki up an extra attack (which is an excellent way to spend ki).

The mirror image trick is nice too. To be honest, I don't really like the inferior invis trick. I would take it later, as a prereq for improved invis trick. Until then I'd prefer to have the mirror images. It's a standard action, but it can be a very nice buff to have.

It's not inferior invisibility, it's exactly the same as Vanish, a level 1 spell, only you can use it as a swift action, and it only affects the caster. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/vanish.html#vanish

Forgotten trick is to give you crazy amounts of flexibility and basically give you every combat feat ever.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Inferior invisibility goes away after 1 attack. It's still good for getting into the position you want, scouting, or a full retreat, but if I can count on flanking with my allies, I'd rather have mirror images. It's not called inferior invisibility of course, just invisibility.

Forgotten Trick costs 2 ki to pop, and then you have to pay additional ki costs. You could steal a combat feat, sure, but I still think I'd rather have two extra attacks per day in most cases. Forgotten Trick was much better in the playtest version. It might still be good if you have a 5 minute adventuring day though, or if you horde your ki most of the time.


I can see Forgotten Trick as good, especially for Batman ninja. It is expensive though. I like this attack routine with a TWF ninja:

round 1: flank and attack. Pressure points 1.
round 2: full attack + ki = Pressure points 2, 3, and 4.
round 3: so on and so forth.

Nice use for ki.

Grand Lodge

Petty Alchemy wrote:

Inferior invisibility goes away after 1 attack. It's still good for getting into the position you want, scouting, or a full retreat, but if I can count on flanking with my allies, I'd rather have mirror images. It's not called inferior invisibility of course, just invisibility.

Forgotten Trick costs 2 ki to pop, and then you have to pay additional ki costs. You could steal a combat feat, sure, but I still think I'd rather have two extra attacks per day in most cases. Forgotten Trick was much better in the playtest version. It might still be good if you have a 5 minute adventuring day though, or if you horde your ki most of the time.

Vanish is more for getting into position, or preparing some shenanigans for combat, than anything else.

Forgotten Trick is so you can improvise when you must.


Kais86 wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:

Inferior invisibility goes away after 1 attack. It's still good for getting into the position you want, scouting, or a full retreat, but if I can count on flanking with my allies, I'd rather have mirror images. It's not called inferior invisibility of course, just invisibility.

Forgotten Trick costs 2 ki to pop, and then you have to pay additional ki costs. You could steal a combat feat, sure, but I still think I'd rather have two extra attacks per day in most cases. Forgotten Trick was much better in the playtest version. It might still be good if you have a 5 minute adventuring day though, or if you horde your ki most of the time.

Vanish is more for getting into position, or preparing some shenanigans for combat, than anything else.

Forgotten Trick is so you can improvise when you must.

Ok your hung up on the cost when http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-ki-mastery will give it all to you so much easier as long as your dm gives you the chance to buy one.

Additionally here is another great item that will help with this same problem of recovering ki costs http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/neckl ace-of-ki-serenity.

I would suggest asking your DM about the Ki Mat working with the ninja if you are going to head the direction of a KI fighter.

I personally, love ninja's. The whole reason i switched to pathfinder is because their ninja is more bad @$$ then 3.5. Vanishing trick is really cool 1 ki for 12 rounds of invisibilty? awesome when im used to paying 1 ki for 1 round of invisibility. AND this is a prereq for invisible blade which is nice to have as well. Not to mention fits into the whole Fantasy about ninja's.


nategar05 wrote:
I'm partial to Pressure Points and Bleeding Trick. I like tricks that I don't have to spend Ki on. The ones that use Ki are good too, but you'll likely have enough uses of your ki pool as it is from your standard uses.

My personal Top rated ninja tricks. (non order)

Bleeding Attack: Costs nothing and will progress as you do. (awesome)
Pressure Points: Whenever the ninja deals sneak attack damage, she also deals 1 point of Strength or Dexterity damage, decided by the ninja. as Paizo wrote it : WHENEVER
Shadow Clone : 1d4 clones, as Mirror Image deceent
Ki Charge : cause splash damage with thrown object (good)
Vanishing Trick : Go invisible (as invisible)1 rd per/level..(decent)

My personal Top Rated Master Tricks. (non Order)

Invisible Blade : cast greater invisibility with CL=Ninja Level
Evasion : take no dmg on succesful save for half.
Assassinate : Pretty Much Death attack
Ghost Step: become incorpreal and walk through walls.


Well, Vanishing Trick is the must have. You should be working out team tactics so that you can get SA in other ways- especially if you have 2 front line fighters as you can take gang up- but it's great for the oddball "don't have sneak attack" moment. Also really nice for situational sneak moments.

If you go with Forgotten Trick (and the sheer utility makes it worth the cost) then I'd use tricks that don't use ki for the rest of them. I've never thought much of bleeding attack, but pressure points is great for a two weapon fighter.

Shadow Clone is really nice if you don't find yourself using up all your ki for Vanishing Trick and the +1 attack or AC uses.

Are you the party scout? Fast Stealth is pretty useful. Plus, it's always fun to role play. You can get some real WTF moments if your group is willing to role play right along with you.


My votes go for vanishing and shadow clones.

Sczarni

I think pressure points they die before it matters. Bleed is awesome, but does not stack with many attacks. Shadow clones is very solid. If you plan on raising your strength double slice combat feat would be worth taking.

I do not care what anyone says vanish is an elite ability. It does favor a two handed build but is an awesome ability.

Lantern Lodge

Old thread ;) but vanishing trick is an absolute must. Your ninja becomes the ultimate assassin specifically using it to get behind enemy lines and take out casters.

IMHO Forgotten Trick is a waste. 2 ki + additional cost is far too expensive to warrant it's limited utility.


Depends on party make up. It's definitely expensive... but the utility aspect can be a life saver.

It basically boils down to 'how much magic depth does your party have?'

Liberty's Edge

I am slightly partial to Flurry of Stars, but very situational. Low levels, lots of badguys, you sneak up, throw lots of stars at each one, and if you are level 4 you can either vanish/shadow clone, or pressure point with stars. Assuming first attack, everyone denied dex bonus, you have TWF, you throw 4 stars at a -4, but that wouldn't be too bad if you are a dex monkey. Again, very situational, and really only worth it if your GM allows you to retrain at later levels. Vanishing and Shadow Clone are by far the best utility, and I pressure points is the best if you have no problems getting that SA, IMHO.


Any good ways for ninjas to get more Ki, like a Hungry Ghost Monk?


The feat: extra ki.


The non-evil option is the drunken archetype. I'm pretty sure there is a feat or two specifically for (only able to be taken by) that class, too.


kaisc006 wrote:

Old thread ;) but vanishing trick is an absolute must. Your ninja becomes the ultimate assassin specifically using it to get behind enemy lines and take out casters.

IMHO Forgotten Trick is a waste. 2 ki + additional cost is far too expensive to warrant it's limited utility.

Agreed at lower levels. However, at higher levels, gold permitting, and if your GM even has one, you can buy the ring of Ki mastery, and the Necklace of Ki serenity. Also, work with your gm on the Ki Mat these are all really nice items and i believe tailored for the Monk/Ninja.

So agree and disagree I guess on this. The versatility of the forgotten trick loses maybe a 1/3 of the meaning when you really stop and consider what you can actually do with it Ki permitting. Addmitedly, this is probably not up everyone's ally but I do like the fact you can have allow a PC to "use* any combat Feat that they are eligable for.


The ki prices got unnecessarily nerfed and the 1/day free uses removed from the beta. I'd recommend trying to play the beta ninja if you can, it was a much more balanced class and not quite as MAD due to not having to spend so much in ki.

Best tricks, IMO:

Combat Trick - It's a feat!

Vanishing Trick - I would not use this to gain sneak attacks, way too costly. But swift invis is still handy, and this trick's true power comes at level 10 with Invisible Blade

Wall Climber - Simply climb speed 20. If you lack flight, climb is the next best thing to have.

Slow Reactions - As good on ninja as it is on rogue.

Forgotten Trick - This thing costs way way too much and emulating other tricks really isn't worth it. However, there is one neat thing you can do. Use FT to pick up Combat Trick and on the fly gain any combat feat you qualify for. Main downside is having to not take Combat Trick, which is a pretty massive downside.

Master Tricks:

Invisible Blade - Full attack sneak attacks! All combat long!

Assassinate - Poorly worded and requires DM interpretation. If he agrees that "not knowing you're there" counts as "the target [failing to recognize] the ninja as an enemy," pretty nice way to start a combat.

Ghost Step - Can get expensive fast, but excellent for scouting.

Evasion - You have high reflex, may as well get the most out of it.

There.... really isn't that much that stands out as great, honestly. Still more than rogue talents, but that's not saying much.

Lantern Lodge

The Blue Ghost wrote:
Agreed at lower levels. However, at higher levels, gold permitting, and if your GM even has one, you can buy the ring of Ki mastery, and the Necklace of Ki serenity.

I guess I can see this, but 3 ki means 3 less attacks, 3 less level per round greater invisibility, ect. The other tricks are just too juicy to let up before level 14. For me trick order is this:

lvl 2: Vanishing Trick
lvl 4: Either sneak attack boost or combat feat such as weapon focus
lvl 6: Fast stealth so now invisibility grants +20 stealth (instead of +20 -20 when moving)
lvl 8: Whichever one I did not pick at level 4
lvl 10: Invisible Blade
lvl 12: See the Unseen

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Vanishing Trick - I would not use this to gain sneak attacks, way too costly. But swift invis is still handy, and this trick's true power comes at level 10 with Invisible Blade

The true utility of this power is mobility on the battlefied. At second level, a ninja could double move behind enemy lines without them having any idea where he is. A savvy ninja will slip past heavy hitters, wait till they leave behind their soft targets (ranged/casters), and then slay with impunity. For a Str based power attacking ninja, one round is usually all it takes to drop a soft target.


My build goes like this...

Lvl 2 Vanishing trick - Must have...
Lvl 4 Wall Climb - so much fun being able to climb anywhere, along with ninja's bonus to jump makes for a lot of fun and escape-ability. why outrun when you can climb. But I admit campaign dependent.
Lvl 6 Rogue talent powerful sneak
Lvl 8 Forgotten trick

A lot of people hate on forgotten trick...

for this build I've found it useful in 3 different situation mainly...

1 DM throws you something with see invisibility so vanishing trick does you no good. I'll often use vanishing trick at the end of my turn and 5 ft step so I can't be targeted if I've Agro'd a big bad... so I'll use forgotten trick and mirror image if it has see invis. little added survivability.

2 If your DM is super pist off at you and throws something your way wife true seeing I find being able to whip out a well placed smoke bomb on the fly is great.

3 I play a very climb oriented character... pulling an Adam West Batman and climbing up the side of a tower or tall urban building sometimes foils the best laid DM plans... So when they knock you off the side of a building with a gust of wind or whatever other trick up their sleave being able to use feather fall ninja trick is great.

4 Once you are level 10, use of the occasional high jumper skill in combo with using a ki point to increase your movement speed easily allows you to jump more than 50-60 feet in the air... with a climb speed of only 20, 10 rounds of high jumper in combo with a higher then 30 movement speed(from items, multiclass barbarian or monk) allows you to scale features in half the time. Can he fly... no but he can leap over tall buildings ;)

Lvl 10 I like to go with see the unseen first. I find when you play a ninja you will inevitably end up ninja vs ninja and see the unseen is a key winner.

Lvl 12 Advanced Rogue talent deadly sneak...

Now I combo this build with a level of Monk (maybe even a few)... then combo with sap adept and sap master... maybe even mantis style and mantis wisdom and you get...

about 8 stunning fist attempts a day...

use it as your first attack while you are invisible, while making sure it isn't the same turn you stealthed so you can use ki for the extra attack. Pick casters and low fort characters and it works quite often. Then with flurry, a ki point and BAB you have at least 4 attacks.

by level 13... 4 attacks at level 13 equals 6 sneak dice, 12 sneak dice if you are doing non lethal. +2 on each sneak dice for sap adept so +12 static... minimum 3s on the sneak dice so 48 damage... possible x 4 hits which are very likely if your stunning fist stunned the target leaving them flat footed against you with a -2 to AC and dropping whatever was in their hands. Thats a possible 192 damage on 4 hits. At level 13 you've probably just dropped an enemy and the excess damage is dealt as leathal... I've actually seen this kill low hit dice characters like casters from the overflow of non lethal into lethal damage.

If you would like to go pure ninja just take the improved unarmed strike so you can deal nonlethal by choice and stunning fist feat... this gives you an extra d6 sneak dice working out to extra 8 damage minimum per strike at level 13.

This is by far my favorite and best set of ninja tricks. Might not be the best for you but I hope everyone enjoyed Mr. Nonlethal.


Pressure points...

I just became a fan of that one, because a lot of monsters have Damage Reduction. Especially if you don't have 100 types of weapons (adamantine/good/lawfull/magic/silver/cold iron/whateverthe...)
You will still bring down the bad guy!

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