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My build goes like this...

Lvl 2 Vanishing trick - Must have...
Lvl 4 Wall Climb - so much fun being able to climb anywhere, along with ninja's bonus to jump makes for a lot of fun and escape-ability. why outrun when you can climb. But I admit campaign dependent.
Lvl 6 Rogue talent powerful sneak
Lvl 8 Forgotten trick

A lot of people hate on forgotten trick...

for this build I've found it useful in 3 different situation mainly...

1 DM throws you something with see invisibility so vanishing trick does you no good. I'll often use vanishing trick at the end of my turn and 5 ft step so I can't be targeted if I've Agro'd a big bad... so I'll use forgotten trick and mirror image if it has see invis. little added survivability.

2 If your DM is super pist off at you and throws something your way wife true seeing I find being able to whip out a well placed smoke bomb on the fly is great.

3 I play a very climb oriented character... pulling an Adam West Batman and climbing up the side of a tower or tall urban building sometimes foils the best laid DM plans... So when they knock you off the side of a building with a gust of wind or whatever other trick up their sleave being able to use feather fall ninja trick is great.

4 Once you are level 10, use of the occasional high jumper skill in combo with using a ki point to increase your movement speed easily allows you to jump more than 50-60 feet in the air... with a climb speed of only 20, 10 rounds of high jumper in combo with a higher then 30 movement speed(from items, multiclass barbarian or monk) allows you to scale features in half the time. Can he fly... no but he can leap over tall buildings ;)

Lvl 10 I like to go with see the unseen first. I find when you play a ninja you will inevitably end up ninja vs ninja and see the unseen is a key winner.

Lvl 12 Advanced Rogue talent deadly sneak...

Now I combo this build with a level of Monk (maybe even a few)... then combo with sap adept and sap master... maybe even mantis style and mantis wisdom and you get...

about 8 stunning fist attempts a day...

use it as your first attack while you are invisible, while making sure it isn't the same turn you stealthed so you can use ki for the extra attack. Pick casters and low fort characters and it works quite often. Then with flurry, a ki point and BAB you have at least 4 attacks.

by level 13... 4 attacks at level 13 equals 6 sneak dice, 12 sneak dice if you are doing non lethal. +2 on each sneak dice for sap adept so +12 static... minimum 3s on the sneak dice so 48 damage... possible x 4 hits which are very likely if your stunning fist stunned the target leaving them flat footed against you with a -2 to AC and dropping whatever was in their hands. Thats a possible 192 damage on 4 hits. At level 13 you've probably just dropped an enemy and the excess damage is dealt as leathal... I've actually seen this kill low hit dice characters like casters from the overflow of non lethal into lethal damage.

If you would like to go pure ninja just take the improved unarmed strike so you can deal nonlethal by choice and stunning fist feat... this gives you an extra d6 sneak dice working out to extra 8 damage minimum per strike at level 13.

This is by far my favorite and best set of ninja tricks. Might not be the best for you but I hope everyone enjoyed Mr. Nonlethal.


So my goal is to build a ninja who can wall jump...

so essentially be able to jump up walls, or bounce off two walls very close together.

I think I've got it and would like some feed back.

I wanted the character to be well rounded so off the bat I took vanishing trick as his first Ninja trick

Then at level 4 wall climber for the +8 to climb and ability to take 10 on climb checks and be able to retain dexterity and fight while climbing...

Then take rogue talent nimble climber at 6 which lessens the DC to 10+wall DC for catching yourself while falling.

Then at level 8 take Acrobatic Master and at level 10 take High jumper...

By combining all these things at level 10 a ninja would easily have a Climb skill of 10+3+8(wall climber)21. If you take the 2 skill feats this could easily be bumped to a 31... not including dex and with taking 10 we have 41... so combined with nimble climber you could catch while falling from almost any surface(DC 30 being a ceiling with handholds).

Also with high jumper and your level 10 ki pool ability DC for vertical jumps would be halved in comparison to your roll. assuming average 13 at level 10 without feats... 23 if you take the 2 skill feats. doubling because of high jumper and assuming average role of ten... gets you 66 foot vertical jump. If you wanted to really min max take skill mastery at level 12 so you can always take 10 on a acrobatics check.

but assuming all this works the end result is being able to jump from surface to surface and catch yourself while falling. essentially becoming spider man without the web. If you use a ki point you can up the jump to 106 foot jump using acrobatic master.

Another good idea for this would be the feather fall ninja trick... if this somehow goes wrong falling damage would be killer.

Looking for thoughts or loopholes I might have missed in trying to make this. Does this work?


I'm playing a campaign right now... and I'm playing a cross-class halfling monk ninja... 4 levels of monk is all you need to make the build viable...

Going halfling allowed me to get dex to 18 easily. with weapon finesse and size bonus quickly makes for decent to hit. Monk bonus feats, deflect arrows and dodge are extremely useful at low levels for combat.

Bore Style quickly allows you to compensate for damage lost to sneak dice if you want to go unarmed. also if you take the next stage in boar style progression it allows you to deal each type of damage whenever you want.

Later on taking Unarmed combat mastery makes for continuing unarmed progression. By level 16(4M, 12N) this makes for a D10(S)or 2d6(M) damage unarmed plus 6d6 sneak, 2d6 bleed on 2 hits.

As a halfling I took adaptable luck alternative racial trait and fleet of foot alternative racail trait. Adapatable luck give a +2 bonus on most roles 3 times a day and fleet of foot ups movement speed to 30. with the 4 levels of monk you have movement 40.

For ninja skills I took vanishing trick first, then the climb speed, acrobatics master and forgotten ninja trick. For greater ninja tricks invisible blade then Unarmed combat mastery.

This is where my current build will probably differ from yours... I went vow of poverty to gain access to the extra ki point per level... by level 10 it makes for a ki pool of 20 points easily... by level 12 when you get forgotten trick it gives you enough points to have access to almost any minor ninja trick fairly often. But there is that draw back of almost no stuff... I went for a theme so best just to look at the rest of the things i did with this character and see if any of it helps you with your build.

Other things I added to this build that help is skill focus intimidate and persuasive... Boar Ferocity allows a +2 to intimidate and a free demoralize attempt every time you hit twice in combat. At level 10 +12 to your intimidate check almost always demoralizes them.

Mainly just food for thought for cross classing ideas. Definitely not for everyone though.


Ok I'll try and make this Quick...

I set out with a goal to make an animal companion that could attack as part of a ride by attack.

I figured if I gave him spring attack it should work, considering a similar function. Except spring attack as it is worded is its own full round action which doesn't mesh well with others.

So then I figured if I gave him the 3 int maybe he could just take the rideby feat and take part in his own ride by attack. But this doesn't seem right because the way its worded you have to be mounted. Does a mount count as mounted or only the rider?

So then I started to wonder if a mount uses spring attack does the rider provoke. This is just plain confusing.

The only way I can see to get both mount and rider to be able to move, attack and then move again is to give both of them spring attack so its the same action. In which case the whole mounted combat tree becomes useless for what it has been designed for. This way I also am unable to use Spirited Charge which was the whole point of this build.

Any suggestions?