Things you love about Golarion


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I love the fact that there is a place to run what ever campaign you want.

I love the fact that when I read a nation in the ISWG, I think I want to set a campaign there, and then I turn the page and do the same with the next country.

I love Numeria (get that AP going. ;))

Now we just need a Gazetteer for Casmaron!


I can't really add to anything Mikaze said. +1 Mikaze!

Go goblins!


Pretty much everything mentioned in the Things You Hate About Golarion thread is something that I love about Golarion. Seriously, that thread is like a perfect bullet list of "Yes, more of that, please," to me.


To say it shortly, just three things:

Everything is there.

Everything is at least nicely sketched, if not brilliant anyway.

There is still place for whole continents of your own imagination or other material.

Sovereign Court

Reading Inner Sea Magic has reminded me how awesome a lot of Golarion is.

I like Taldor (but want more), I like the molthune/Nirmathas conflict. I like the fey gnomes, I adore Sandpoint, Desna, Sarenrae, Zon-Kuthon and Urgathoa are all brilliantly realised gods/goddesses and I like the Pathfinder Society (not as in PFS play, just the gentlemen adventurers have a jolly old time whilst overseen by some serious dudes).

Dark Archive

Matthew Morris wrote:
I love that Paizo can be 'mature' w/o being 'graphic'.

I find, far too often, that if something is labeled 'mature' that 'mature' actually means 'sensationalist gore-filled crap that no mature person would find interesting,' so I do prefer adult themes that aren't titillating shockfests.

For me, 'mature' is The Professional, not Legend of the Overfiend.

OTOH, I'm not sure that Paizo agrees. I'm more likely to see stuff about people hanging from meathooks after having been buggered to death by ogres than a plotline involving nuance or child-bearing gaki or people being judged on actions and intent, rather than race, descriptor, etc. The setting is very black and white, and attempts to explore any sort of morally complex theme seems to be quickly shot down as badwrongfun.

Quote:
Oh, and I love the pulp influcences, and Castrovel.

Heck, yeah! I can't wait to see some sword-and-blaster goodness!

Contributor

Set wrote:

The setting is very black and white, and attempts to explore any sort of morally complex theme seems to be quickly shot down as badwrongfun.

While you've got a point, I think you might just have gotten the wrong products, as several of us around here are all about morally complex gaming--I know it's one of my top goals with most of the books I write. Some writers--and a vocal crew of gamers--really like their straight-up, alignment-based, cut-and-dried game where they don't have to worry about the implications of their actions, and we definitely have products for those folks. But there are also a whole lot of staff here who like to mess with player's heads, have some tough moral decisions, and make players think about the negative consequences of hack 'n' slash.

But yeah, it's an ongoing debate. As the dude who created a (supposedly) LG gold dragon who's running a giant eugenics experiment in Hermea, I've pretty much claimed which side I'm on. :D


Set wrote:

OTOH, I'm not sure that Paizo agrees. I'm more likely to see stuff about people hanging from meathooks after having been buggered to death by ogres than a plotline involving nuance or child-bearing gaki or people being judged on actions and intent, rather than race, descriptor, etc. The setting is very black and white, and attempts to explore any sort of morally complex theme seems to be quickly shot down as badwrongfun.

Really? Because I'm willing to bet that, in the entire corpus of Paizo-published, I can find more examples of nuance and/or people being judged by their actions and intent, than you can find of people being hung on meathooks after having been buggered to death by ogres.

Shadow Lodge

Michael Gentry wrote:
Set wrote:

OTOH, I'm not sure that Paizo agrees. I'm more likely to see stuff about people hanging from meathooks after having been buggered to death by ogres than a plotline involving nuance or child-bearing gaki or people being judged on actions and intent, rather than race, descriptor, etc. The setting is very black and white, and attempts to explore any sort of morally complex theme seems to be quickly shot down as badwrongfun.

Really? Because I'm willing to bet that, in the entire corpus of Paizo-published, I can find more examples of nuance and/or people being judged by their actions and intent, than you can find of people being hung on meathooks after having been buggered to death by ogres.

I advice everyone wishing to witness grey morality and hard life choices to read(not possible players, obviously) the Curse of the Crimson Throne adventure path.

Beyond the main villains, I think it has some of Paizo's best, if not the best, realised morally ambiguous characters. Sure, there's the occasional mustache twirling "muhahhaa" and some irritatingly spotless characters, but from likeable Kuthonite clerics(!) to guardsmen who've just made very bad choices and from very well written LN characters to hard-nosed locals who are just doing their duty, it's rogues gallery of nuanced sorts. It features some of the baseline PF examples of grey morality concepts as well, like the Church of Abadar, who wish to be compensated for their aid since commerce is king, or the aftermath of the Chelish expansions being a multitude of disillusioned ethnic groups.

Really after RotRL, reading that path was like a spring breeze.*

*RotRL is still my favorite, by virtue of having so many classic examples of Paizo coolness.**

**Not including the amount of giant slaying.

Dark Archive

Crud, I threadcrapped and it's flying off the rails!

Back to saying stuff you love about Golarion!

If you want to disagree with me, my email's in the profile.

.

I kinda love that Osirion, Geb, Varisia, Ustalav, Brevoy, Cheliax, Andoran, the Land of the Linnorm Kings, Qadira, etc. are *very* different cultures and yet they don't each have their own mini-pantheon of overlapping gods!


James Sutter wrote:


But yeah, it's an ongoing debate. As the dude who created a (supposedly) LG gold dragon who's running a giant eugenics experiment in Hermea, I've pretty much claimed which side I'm on. :D

I LOVE Hermea and the supposedly good dragon (those charred bodies really are just random pirates *nods and signs the contract*).

I really must admit I love that good is not just good and evil is not just evil and the way I read it, it seems to be not a whole lot of "this is good and only good." stuff.

I love Alkenstar, this place is just too cool.

I also just love Osirion, Numeria, Cheliax, Sargava, Mwargi expanse, Land of the Linnorm Kings, Irrisen, Land of the Mammoth lords, and Razmiran.

I have a special love for Tian Xia, I adore the whole Asian feel, but that the far east is in the far east and reachable and in a lesser degree interacts with the inner sea region appeals greatly to me.

and I have a special place in my heart for "Hold of Belkzen", and Orc homeland a truly savage region, it just elevates the whole concept of Orcs from a "standard humanoid monster" to a true race. (I been itching to play a orc barbarian ever since Orcs of Golarion).


Set wrote:
Crud, I threadcrapped and it's flying off the rails!

No harm, no foul. I disagree with you, but we can leave it at that. :)

Lessee, something I like: I like that, although Andoran is the Inner Sea's shining beacon of freedom and democracy, its economy is propped up by a lumber consortium that treats its employees little better than chattel and forces them to work in appalling conditions. It goes against everything Andoran stands for -- but without it, the setting's arguably most unequivocally good faction would collapse. It's a great source of built-in conflict and roleplaying potential.

Silver Crusade

Zouron wrote:
and I have a special place in my heart for "Hold of Belkzen", and Orc homeland a truly savage region, it just elevates the whole concept of Orcs from a "standard humanoid monster" to a true race. (I been itching to play a orc barbarian ever since Orcs of Golarion).

The thing I like most about Belkzen is the cultural shift going on with the Gorumite orcs as opposed to the Rovagug worshippers, and how those tribes have moved from Complete Monster territory towards something closer to Worthy Opponent for the Lastwallers.

Has me hopeful we could see more variety in orc tribes and culture further down the line, with maybe some genuinely CN (and yeah, CG) leaning tribes complete with their own fleshed out cultures and traditions.


Mikaze wrote:

The thing I like most about Belkzen is the cultural shift going on with the Gorumite orcs as opposed to the Rovagug worshippers, and how those tribes have moved from Complete Monster territory towards something closer to Worthy Opponent for the Lastwallers.

Has me hopeful we could see more variety in orc tribes and culture further down the line, with maybe some genuinely CN (and yeah, CG) leaning tribes complete with their own fleshed out cultures and traditions.

This too! One thing that bugged me about Golarion (I suppose that should go in the other thread) was how pigeon-holed the orcs were - however the whole shift toward Gorum is great to broaden their cultural horizons. I also love the implication by some sources that half-orcs might, for the first time ever, have their own "racial"* deity - not the result of a tryst (or anything worse) between two non-half-orc deities, but a genuine deity born directly from orcs and humans interacting. I think that's just a really cool concept. I also like the fact that it's considered heterodoxy, if not outright heresy by both orcs and humans, and yet it still persists.

Now, about half-elves...

*In the sense that Calistria is a "racial" deity of elves

quick thread derail:
Is Desna an elf? Calistria is, but somewhere, recently, I was introduced to the concept that Desna might have originally been something else, only shifted to an elf. Alternatively, that was Calistria... I don't know.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

Tacticslion wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Desna is an alien. Or, you know, a god. Or force. (She is depicted as being very elf-like in the illustrations, however.)

Adam Daigle wrote:
Desna is an alien.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand suddenly, I have that actually good "great old one" that I've always wanted. Nice.

Also, it suddenly makes way, way more sense why Curchanus would be a "mentor" to something like Desna - he was a god, she was not, but he was teaching her how to interact with mortal races without breaking them. Wow. I love where this line of thought has led.

I also like the concept that Calistria is too, kind of, since she was brought with the elves... who are also aliens. Oh, wow, that's awesome.

EDIT: I love how, in Golarion, elves are aliens that care more for the native life and habitats in many cases than the planetary natives do. (This is true of Forgotten Realms as well, but that doesn't mean I don't like it!)

(Note: AFAIK, in-canon Kyonin may or may not be on Golarion. It's totally not on Golarion, though, otherwise they wouldn't have escaped Earthfall by going there.)


Tacticslion wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Desna is an alien.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand suddenly, I have that actually good "great old one" that I've always wanted. Nice.

Also, it suddenly makes way, way more sense why Curchanus would be a "mentor" to something like Desna - he was a god, she was not, but he was teaching her how to interact with mortal races without breaking them. Wow. I love where this line of thought has led.

I also like the concept that Calistria is too, kind of, since she was brought with the elves... who are also aliens. Oh, wow, that's awesome.

EDIT: I love how, in Golarion, elves are aliens that care more for the native life and habitats in many cases than the planetary natives do. (This is true of Forgotten Realms as well, but that doesn't mean I don't like it!)

(Note: AFAIK, in-canon Kyonin may or may not be on Golarion. It's totally not on Golarion, though, otherwise they wouldn't have escaped Earthfall by going there.)

Kyonin is on Golarion. The elves went to Sovyrian to escape Earthfall. Also, where does it say that the elves are aliens? I would like to read up on that.

Am I the only one who sees the distinction between planar travels and aliens?


The NPC wrote:


Kyonin is on Golarion. The elves went to Sovyrian to escape Earthfall. Also, where does it say that the elves are aliens? I would like to read up on that.

Gah. Misspoke due to being up all night due to being on night-shift baby duty! Thank!

The NPC wrote:
Am I the only one who sees the distinction between planar travels and aliens?

Yes and no. If "alien" means "extra-terrestrial"... then anything from any plane is inherently "alien" as it's not "terrestrial" (unless you're going by other definitions for "terrestrial" in which case creatures from the elemental plane of air, water, or fire would be "aliens" while creatures from the plane of earth would not be).

The point is, however, that they are not from the planet Golarion. They aren't part of the natural ecosystem - they are, in fact, something introduced from the "outside" into the ecosystem (whether this is a planar jaunt or a spacial one). Thus I use the term "alien" to describe them. They aren't Martians... but that's because they're not from Mars (and are not dedicated to/spawned from the deity of the same name)!

Shadow Lodge

Tacticslion wrote:

EDIT: I love how, in Golarion, elves are aliens that care more for the native life and habitats in many cases than the planetary natives do. (This is true of Forgotten Realms as well, but that doesn't mean I don't like it!)

Wait, you think that all those trees and squirrels and stuff are native? Why?


And after I wrote all this up was when I realized just how off-topic this whole thing was.:
InVinoVeritas wrote:
Wait, you think that all those trees and squirrels and stuff are native? Why?

Ahahahah! I love it!

To answer your question: only because no one has claimed to import them from elsewhere, unlike the elves (who imported themselves). To be fair, however, there is no direct evidence that most such things existed before they got here...

Also: humans, at least as far as we can tell, are truly native inhabitants... that were mutated by aliens (Aboleths) for their own purposes. So it's quite possible that all humans are, in fact, aberrant, unnatural mutations of the original*. Huh, that suddenly explains so very much.

Since Gnomes are from the first world...
Elves are from wherever...
Humans are mutated alien stock*...
And Halflings** come from... somewhere... you don't know...

That leaves dwarves and orcs as the only natural, native races? Huh.

*Actually, from what I can tell, they're not - only those with Azlanti blood were altered (and thus recieved a +2 to all their ability scores), while the other human races continued on their course naturally. Fun theory, though.

**Actually does anyone know where Halflings come from? And why they're called "halflings" - if they're "half" something else or influenced in their bloodlines somewhere? "Hin" suggests fey ties...

I love that all of Golarion's player races have, in their own way, completely altered the face of the world***.

***Except for Halflings. SMURF those guys****!
****No, don't. Seriously. Ew.

EDIT: I love that the message board in which official Golarion stuff is discussed changes your avatar to a random smurf when you use (or quote) the word "smurf" in your post!


Tacticslion wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Desna is an alien.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand suddenly, I have that actually good "great old one" that I've always wanted. Nice.

Also, it suddenly makes way, way more sense why Curchanus would be a "mentor" to something like Desna - he was a god, she was not, but he was teaching her how to interact with mortal races without breaking them. Wow. I love where this line of thought has led.

I can't stop seeing Desna as an Elder Thing with five radially arranged butterfly wings. :)


Well, I can't actually see the last post I made here, so I'm re-posting it... If I've used offensive language somehow and it's been deleted because of that, let me know and I'll change it. Alternatively, mods (I'm not sure of your official title on these boards) please feel free to change it and let me know - I don't mind if one of you selectively edit one of my posts, so long as the edit is noted and reasons given.

Tacticslion, Yesterday, 09:21 AM wrote:


*insert picture of Smurfette with a butterfly here*
And after I wrote all this up was when I realized just how off-topic this whole thing was.:

InVinoVeritas wrote:
Wait, you think that all those trees and squirrels and stuff are native? Why?

Ahahahah! I love it!

To answer your question: only because no one has claimed to import them from elsewhere, unlike the elves (who imported themselves). To be fair, however, there is no direct evidence that most such things existed before they got here...

Also: humans, at least as far as we can tell, are truly native inhabitants... that were mutated by aliens (Aboleths) for their own purposes. So it's quite possible that all humans are, in fact, aberrant, unnatural mutations of the original*. Huh, that suddenly explains so very much.

Since Gnomes are from the first world...
Elves are from wherever...
Humans are mutated alien stock*...
And Halflings** come from... somewhere... you don't know...

That leaves dwarves and orcs as the only natural, native races? Huh.

*Actually, from what I can tell, they're not - only those with Azlanti blood were altered (and thus recieved a +2 to all their ability scores), while the other human races continued on their course naturally. Fun theory, though.

**Actually does anyone know where Halflings come from? And why they're called "halflings" - if they're "half" something else or influenced in their bloodlines somewhere? "Hin" suggests fey ties...

I love that all of Golarion's player races have, in their own way, completely altered the face of the world***.

***Except for Halflings. SMURF those guys****!
****No, don't. Seriously. Ew.

EDIT: I love that the message board in which official Golarion stuff is discussed changes your avatar to a random smurf when you use (or quote) the word "smurf" in your post!

So, I posted that before.

Now...
Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
I can't stop seeing Desna as an Elder Thing with five radially arranged butterfly wings. :)

I know, right?!

EDIT: Poppa Smurf is the MAN. Er... I mean... Smurf.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Haven't seen anyone mention it, so I'll throw the starstone out there. Such a cool idea, and the gods that it has made are my favorite of the setting (except Desna, who ties for absolute favorite with Cayden).

Numeria is also excellent. Currently writing up the exploration of a (mostly) untouched, (mostly) intact ship, full of robots, alchemicaly preserved super soldiers, mi-go, and the ghoul remains of the crew. The party is already heading back to town for adamantine after the first robot fight.

I love that there really isn't a country that doesn't inspire me. Reading the world guide was the most distracting thing ever, every entry was another half dozen adventure idea. I could run the campaign that I'm running 6 different times, 6 different ways, with all the ideas I had from that first reading.

I love the mana wastes; gunslingers, mutated gnolls, primal magic storms, how could it be better? I can't wait for some pretext to send a party there.


devil.in.mexico13 wrote:
I love that there really isn't a country that doesn't inspire me. Reading the world guide was the most distracting thing ever, every entry was another half dozen adventure idea.

I agree - even those areas which didnt immediately grab me or which I discounted as 'not my thing' are usually able to pique my interest.

Shadow Lodge

I always figured Golarian was first and foremost a water world--Golarion the Blue to contrast Castrovel the Green and Akiton the Red. Although from a human's point of view, the aboleths are alien, they're probably one of the most native life forms on Golarion.

There have been aboleth empires for millennia, and some are undoubtedly still around, probably at a lesser activity level. I wouldn't be surprised if the waters around Azlant, Sarusan, and the Wandering Isles still hold entire countries of aboleths.

As for the land, dwarves and orcs are native burrowers, there have been empires of cyclopes and serpentfolk in the past, and there are still surface races like goblinoids, humans, halflings, giant-kin and gnolls. We don't know how widespread all these races are; goblins might just be Avistani with regular migrants to other regions, gnolls seem to be mostly eastern Garund, that sort of thing. What else do we know about races in the Crown, Casmaron, Tian Xia, Sarusan, and Arcadia?

It might still be an aboleth's world. We're just living on it.

Now, for the real clincher: where do aboleth's souls go when they die?

Dark Archive

The NPC wrote:
Am I the only one who sees the distinction between planar travels and aliens?

Elves of Golarion left it ambiguous as to whether they went to another plane or planet.

If it was another planet, that planet is not in Golarion's solar system.

I favor the 'another planet' view, it seems like Paizo is keeping the planes "for outsiders".

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Chiming in again, I think it's cool that Golarion is a Fantasy setting where you can logically fit in a Conan-esque Sword and Sorcery game, a Three Musketeers-style Swashbuckling campaign, a Wuxia adventure, and even a steampunk campaign, and not have to create a whole new world from scratch each time.


Things I like about Golarion:

1. Flexibility. There is everything (or close) available, from prehistoric mood to science-fantasy, and the best thing is that if one of those things doesn't rock your boat, you can leave it out without fear of having the setting crumble. Freedom of genres.

2. The re-take on various races (PCs & NPCs). Special mentions to goblins and gnomes, two races that I had never loved before. Golarion made me want to play them as PCs, and use them to create fun & interesting NPCs. This also includes creative views on monsters (the revisited series).

3. Geb (& Nex & Mana Wastes) / Ustalav / Nidal. I've always been a huge fan of undeads, and they've got numerous meaningful occurences in Golarion. They aren't just here to be adventurers' fodder, but they are part of the story.

4. The gods. While many of them are classics in pantheons, some others are brilliant. Cayden Cailean, Zon-Kuthon/Sheyln, Sarenrae, only to name a few.

Dark Archive

For the most part, I love the clothes. Even the Andoren revolutionary uniforms, and especially the outfit the Kalistocrat of Druma is wearing in the Faction Guide.

Indeed, I want to see *more* of it. Too many random folk in group shots show no signs of regional dress (so much so that it's hard to tell what 'regional dress' for a Chel or a Taldan is even supposed to look like). More random people dressed like Ali Baba (Qadirans) or in faux-Egyptian styles (Osirioni), please! The five nations of the original Pathfinder Society are supposed to be active all over the Inner Sea (and their agents active even further abroad), don't reserve Andoran, Chelish, Osirioni, Qadiran and Taldan outfits for articles or sections of books specifically about those nations.

Dark Archive

I love that Cheliax, Andorran and Galt all feel distinct yet obviously part of the crumbling Taldan empire. I love that the early Taldan Empire parallels Rome in so many ways, even its collapse into Western and Eastern halves.

I love that enough is explained on reach region to provide effective hooks for stories and games.

I love the rowdy, extremist feel of Andorran (but if we're going to keep those uniforms can we at least get them some breastplates? Bracers? No? Oh c'mon, even Napoleonic cuirassier knew how to armor up ...).

I love that major setting personalities are not epic level, keeping things in reach of my players.

I, too, love that Gods work indirectly.

I love that regions appear to have limited interactions across their borders ... and that their geographic placement seems somewhat logical (tech level increases as one approaches the Inner Sea and falls away as one heads into more remote locales).

I love that Chaotic nations have their own good reasons for existing and staying they way that they are.

I love the redeemed classic monsters.

I love the whole world, and all its mysteries. Boom-de-yadda-boom-de-yadda, boom-de-yadda-boom-de-yadda.


The list is long, I love:

Revisited monsters - most except dragons
NPC levels
Earth-based regions
many sites in Absalom
Azlant
Aroden's mystery
organizations, especially the Technic League, Pathfinders, Whispering Way and Red Mantis
Thassilonian remains and other cyclopean sites
Katapesh and Nex golems
Ilvarandin
The Mammoth Lords
Rahadoum and the Mwangi Expanse
Magnimar and Kaer Maga
The First World
Proteans and Axiomites
Most of the major gods except Calistria and Iomedae


The star stone, and the Aroden mystery.


I love that monster in Golarion are monsters. I was getting a little tired of 3.5 assumption that individuals of nearly every monstrous race race were by and large civilized and even though they might have evil or tyrannical tendencies and exceptions of their cruel misguided cultures were fairly common. We saw monstrous PCs fairly regularly, and if a character said "we need to kill those goblins because, well, they're goblins," it wasn't considered PC and garnered accusations of bigotry and ignorance from those around them. In Pathfinder, though, those guys have got to go.

I love the history backing the evolution of each nation and their relationships with their neighbors. The whole thing seems very organic.

I love the distinct identities of the various human ethnic groups. They only seem to get a passing nod in most other worlds.

I love that Paizo has taken numerous concepts that could potentially ruin a good fantasy setting (crashed spaceships, a nation of guns, assassins with their own small country) and made them AWESOME.


In general, I love that Golarion's hodge-podge of possibilities made me consider some campaign ideas I wouldn't even have thought of before. The Mammoth Lords, for instance. Barbarian tribes riding mastadons never occurred to me, but I love it.

More specifically, I love the three-tier design of the underdark here. It allows for the typical deep dark D&D races and monsters, but provides a space for the more pulpy Lost Worlds.

Even more specifically, I love Varisia. The dueling city-states placed amidst the ruins of an ancient, half-forgotten civilization is a no-fail setting for D&D-style adventures.


All that has been said already is very much why I love Golarion, but specific shout outs must go to:

Varisia,
Sarenrae,
Qadira and the Keleshite Empire,
Jalmeray,
Vudra,
Geb/Ustalav/Nidal

I'm sure there a few other things/peoples/etc I'm forgetting, but the above always stick out.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kegluneq wrote:
I love the whole world, and all its mysteries. Boom-de-yadda-boom-de-yadda, boom-de-yadda-boom-de-yadda.

Awesome reference! :)


I really love the lack of hugely influential NPCs. I've always run homebrew because in places like Forgotten Realms it would be almost inevitable (or pushing the realms of reasonable realism) that the party would never meet Elminster or one of the other hundred or so "big name" personalities.

I was always very concerned that my portrayal of these setting important NPCs would not A) do them justice and B) be a different interpretation than that of my players.

I also really like the mixture of cultures and "atmospheres" for all of the countries. Unlike some(?) I have very little trouble embracing the diversity of cultural and magical traditions.

Shadow Lodge

The distinct lack of meta-plot.
The fact that I could re-create The Phantom without ruining the suspension of disbelief.
Alkenstar.
The ethnic groups not just among humans, but among many of the other races, although the other races could use some more love in this area.
Cayden Cailean.
The pathfinder society(the organization and organized play).
The new vehicle rules allowing me to run a madmax/deathrace themed game in the mana wastes.

Silver Crusade

felt too negative lately, need to stay positive

I love the ghoul reimagining.

I've joked about needing to point out that I have never nor will I ever feel any attraction for any ghouls* after RELEVANT AP VOLUME HERE, but seriously, the new take on them rocks. You get to have the classic rotten ones for those that like them, if they chow down regularly. But the civilized ones? Those are so much creepier.

It's one thing to have moving corpses with bits falling off feasting on people like feral beasts. It's another to have these unearthly, white-as-snow, handsome/beautiful beings plenty capable of reason, civilization, and possibly pleasant conversation who snack on people. These pale white beings living in clean, pale marble tomb-homes, with all the trappings of high culture, perfectly austere, with people bits on the dining table. That mix of beauty and absolute gruesome horror just works for a lot of chilling scenarios, making them potentially far more unsettling than any vampire. The whole scene just seems more insane with urbane ghouls, without the vampire's romanticism or familiarity to buffer it.

The theory about why they all look like elves was a very nice touch as well.

I really want to know more about that civilization underneath Osirion now. Take the civilized ghouls up above, heavily flavor them with their religious devotion to Kabiri with all the Egyptian-styled aesthetic and cultural trappings of Osirion... Wow.

*Seriously not a ghoul lover. That would be wrong.


Mikaze wrote:

*Seriously not a ghoul lover. That would be wrong.

Lies and deceit!


Mikaze wrote:


I love the ghoul reimagining.

What product is this re-imagining taking place in?

Silver Crusade

neverminding wrote:
Mikaze wrote:


I love the ghoul reimagining.

What product is this re-imagining taking place in?

It's kind of spread out, but the whole picture gets painted when you take the art from AP SPOILERS MAYHAPS

Spoiler:
Pathfinder #2(moderately feral), #18(civilized), and #37(full-blown feral/rotten)
and the Rival Guide(civilized) for visuals and Classic Horrors Revisited for how their feeding habits affect their appearance. If they feast a lot, they rot away(though their bodies always "heal" enough to restore their mass). If they are pickier eaters, such as sticking to treated mummified meat or other such "refined" fare, they retain a fresh "albino elf" look. It leads to a nice possible Indulgence/Restraint divide in their culture. Maybe even a divide between Kabiri-worshipping ghouls and full-blown gluttonous Urgathoan ghouls...

I think details about Nemret Noktoria, the Kabiri-loyal ghoul city underneath Osirion, are covered in Classic Horrors as well, though it may also be in the Darklands book or the Inner Sea Guide. IIRC, that is. There was a bit about them absolutely hating ghasts, which seems to paint them even further as wanting to preserve their aesthetics.

The Kabiri-elf connection is definitely in Classic Horrors, that much I remember for certain.

martinaj wrote:


Lies and deceit!

You say "to-MAY-to", I say "coping mechanism".


Mikaze wrote:


It's kind of spread out...

Whoa, thanks so much for this. Got some ordering to do!


Much of this is owed to Wolfgang Baur, whose "true ghouls" and their "White Kingdom" have been around in various incarnations since Second Edition. :)

Silver Crusade

Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
Much of this is owed to Wolfgang Baur, whose "true ghouls" and their "White Kingdom" have been around in various incarnations since Second Edition. :)

Looks like I got some ordering to do too. :D

After reading this I looked around and Dungeon #70 turned up, so not only did Wolfgang Baur apparently inspire my favorite ghouls(or he may have made them outright!), it looks like it's connected to an old favorite Gerald Brom painting for which I never knew the context. Definitely hunting that issue down now, thanks!


If you're looking for a physical copy, Noble Knight Games has them available it looks like.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I removed a post. Do not post any content that infringes and/or violates any patent, trademark, copyright, or other proprietary right of any third party.


Ross Byers wrote:
I removed a post. Do not post any content that infringes and/or violates any patent, trademark, copyright, or other proprietary right of any third party.

Sorry about that. I have both physical copies and digital copies and forgot about sharing out of print third-party stuff =)

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

DrowVampyre wrote:
If you're looking for a physical copy, Noble Knight Games has them available it looks like.

Thanks for the tip, was able to get the whole Rise of the Runelords AP there.

Back on topic, I like how the locations are detailed enough for a few hooks and I can create almost any story I want without having to listen to someone cry how I am going against an already published work. I like the whole kitchen sink world. Taldor will rise again!

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