Human Races Analogies?

[lastgrasp]

Trying to get real world analogies for the human races in Golarion. Some of them are pretty easy to pick up. Others I am curious see what people think.

* Chelaxian - Italian type
* Garundi - Northern Africa
* Keleshite - Middle Eastern
* Kellid - ??
* Mwangi - Central/Southern Africa
* Taldan - Spanish?
* Tian - Asia
* Ulfen - Northern Europe
* Varisian - ?
* Vudrani - Indian
* Shoanti - Native American
* Azlanti - ?

I know that Golarion is loosely based off of Earth so trying to figure out where certain ethnic races fit in. I know it's a fantasy setting. Just curious.

[Radu the Wanderer]

lastgrasp wrote:

Trying to get real world analogies for the human races in Golarion. Some of them are pretty easy to pick up. Others I am curious see what people think.

* Chelaxian - Italian type
* Garundi - Northern Africa
* Keleshite - Middle Eastern
* Kellid - ??
* Mwangi - Central/Southern Africa
* Taldan - Spanish?
* Tian - Asia
* Ulfen - Northern Europe
* Varisian - ?
* Vudrani - Indian
* Shoanti - Native American
* Azlanti - ?

I know that Golarion is loosely based off of Earth so trying to figure out where certain ethnic races fit in. I know it's a fantasy setting. Just curious.

I see Kellids as being very celtic and/or gothc, and Varisians as eastern european.... and it's probably a mistake to try and figure out an analogue for Azlantis, seeing as how they're all dead, but the closest I can get is atlantean.

[James Jacobs]

Your analogies are pretty spot on. I'd say Taldans are more Roman than Spanish, though. We don't really have an obvious Spanish ethnicity analogy in the Inner Sea region.

Varisians are eastern european. Kellids are northern european (I sometimes jokingly refer to them as Conans around the office). Azlantis are atlantean—AKA not really a real-world ethnicity at all, but one that should feel like it predates all known real-world ethnicities. If that makes any sense.

[NotMousse]

Everyone knows perfumed Taldanes are French! Their empire even knows the French Reverse Charge.

[lastgrasp]

Thanks James for clearing that up. Maybe spain analogy will show up in the south american. Sorta like long forgotten Conquistador from the past. ;-)

So Iobaria the Russian analogy?

[Generic Villain]

lastgrasp wrote:

* Kellid - ??
* Varisian - ?
* Azlanti - ?

Kellids are straight up cave men. Modern primitives, neanderthal, whatever you want to call them. Varisians are based on the Eastern European Roma - or to be more blunt, gypsies.

The Azlanti are special, as they aren't based on any real-world ethnicity. Azlant is Golarion's Atlantis, and its people are sort of super-human. I can't remember the specific source, but in one of the PF products, it noted that Azlanti received a +2 bonus to every attribute thanks to the genetic tampering of the aboleths. So think of them as a proginator, more-human-than-a-human race.

[Generic Villain]

lastgrasp wrote:

So Iobaria the Russian analogy?

Not really. The Russia analogy is Irrisen and Brevoy - Iobaria was settled largely by Linnorm King vikings, though it has since been devastasted by a series of plagues. There's certainly some Russian "feel" to it, but again, Brevoy and Irrisen are the places that scream Old Country/Motherland.

[Shuriken Nekogami]

Andoran is basically america

Alkenstar is the 'wild west' (think westerns like True Grit, 3:10 to Yuma or most John Wayne Movies.)

[Jeff de luna]

Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

Andoran is basically america

Alkenstar is the 'wild west' (think westerns like True Grit, 3:10 to Yuma or most John Wayne Movies.)

Except, of course, that most Alkenstar humans are East African (Garundi) or Middle Eastern (Keleshite) in general appearance.

I always thought of Taldor as being a mix between the Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and northern Italy.

[Knoq Nixoy]

Kellids are similar to the Cimmerians of Hyboria, who were ancestors of Celts in that world, but not in our world, mostly.

Taldans have all kinds of names, that sound Byzantine, generic fantasy names, Spanish, Italian, Slavic (around Brevoy, even Mendev, those are more typical Easter European than Varisians. Irrisen only nobility seems Slavic, the rest are Ulfen).

The Lergeni appear Western European, their names and skin.

[Bullette Point]

lastgrasp wrote:

Thanks James for clearing that up. Maybe spain analogy will show up in the south american. Sorta like long forgotten Conquistador from the past. ;-)

So Iobaria the Russian analogy?

OR we could see an El Cid period of Spain.

[Revan]

The Falcata was primarily a weapon of the Iberian peninsula, as I understand it.

[Jukkaimaru]

Revan wrote:

The Falcata was primarily a weapon of the Iberian peninsula, as I understand it.

This is correct, and to fit the Taldans even moreso being something of a Byzantine Empire expy, it's very similar to a Greek weapon called a kopis.

[Kanebaenre]

I see too a lot of similarities between Taldor and The Spanish Empire in the XVI and XVII century. (The loss of territories; the wars against the Turkish/Quadirans; The hidalgos or Grandes de España/ bearded class, old families; The forbidden religions Allah/Saenrae).

[InVinoVeritas]

I'm curious about the Mauxi. They seem a little Tuareg, but that is still mostly because of Garundi influence. Any thoughts?

[Mar'c]

They look more North African than the Garundi. Ancient Numidia analogy? Too light-skinned for the empire of Mali, I guess. Jistka could be Carthage.

In Taldor, Rondelero sounds Spanish. Aldori seem Italian tough.

[Chosen of Desna]

lastgrasp wrote:

Trying to get real world analogies for the human races in Golarion. Some of them are pretty easy to pick up. Others I am curious see what people think.

* Tian - Asia

The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting states on p. 32 that "the people collectively known as Tian encompass a number of different distinct ethnicities."

According to the male and female names in the boxed text on that page I would differentiate between

Tian-Dan - Vietnamese
Tian-La - Mongol
Tian-Min - Japanese
Tian-Sing - Indonesian
Tian-Shu - Chinese.

[Jeff de luna]

Chosen of Desna wrote:

lastgrasp wrote:

Trying to get real world analogies for the human races in Golarion. Some of them are pretty easy to pick up. Others I am curious see what people think.

* Tian - Asia

The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting states on p. 32 that "the people collectively known as Tian encompass a number of different distinct ethnicities."

According to the male and female names in the boxed text on that page I would differentiate between

Tian-Dan - Vietnamese
Tian-La - Mongol
Tian-Min - Japanese
Tian-Sing - Indonesian
Tian-Shu - Chinese.

The Inner Sea guide presents less "RWy" names as a replacement to the old CS, though the flavor is the same. They names look like they belong with the cultures above, but only resemble them.

[James Jacobs]

We'll be going into Tian Xia's ethnicities more in the upcoming Dragon Empires book; there's a few that aren't mentioned in the Inner Sea World Guide as well.

[Jukkaimaru]

Jeff de luna wrote:

The Inner Sea guide presents less "RWy" names as a replacement to the old CS, though the flavor is the same. They names look like they belong with the cultures above, but only resemble them.

Indeed, though there's still some validity in canon. "Kousei" is a real Japanese personal name (for example, Kamen Rider OOO's infamous Cakeboss, Kougami Kousei). Also the name of the iconic Samurai, Nakayama Hayato, is a 100% viable Japanese name in real life.

[Kerney]

Kanebaenre wrote:

I see too a lot of similarities between Taldor and The Spanish Empire in the XVI and XVII century. (The loss of territories; the wars against the Turkish/Quadirans; The hidalgos or Grandes de España/ bearded class, old families; The forbidden religions Allah/Saenrae).

I actually see Cheliax in that way, with an Inquisition, legalisms, loss of territory etc while Taldor, the rump empire is a rump just like Byzantium was a century or two before it's fall.

[Blackvial]

Kerney wrote:

Kanebaenre wrote:

I see too a lot of similarities between Taldor and The Spanish Empire in the XVI and XVII century. (The loss of territories; the wars against the Turkish/Quadirans; The hidalgos or Grandes de España/ bearded class, old families; The forbidden religions Allah/Saenrae).

I actually see Cheliax in that way, with an Inquisition, legalisms, loss of territory etc while Taldor, the rump empire is a rump just like Byzantium was a century or two before it's fall.

Cheliax reminds me of the British Empire

[Jukkaimaru]

...Here's a question. What with the inclusion of a few Maori weapons in Ultimate Combat (taiaha, mere...), is there any human ethnicity in Golarion that maps well to Polynesians?

[Gailbraithe]

Knoq Nixoy wrote:

Kellids are similar to the Cimmerians of Hyboria, who were ancestors of Celts in that world, but not in our world, mostly.

That was my impression, that Kellids were expy Cimmerians, or at least "generic barbarian horde." Honestly though, I think one could make a strong argument (thanks to Numerian superscience!) that the culture they most resemble is the barbarian marauders from The Road Warrior.

I could totally see Lord Humongous as a leader of a Kellid warband.

[W E Ray]

For my own games, the way I kinda see the human ethnicities
.
.
.

Cheliax, North: Italian
Cheliax, South: Spanish
Taldor: French
Galt: British & Irish
Andoran: Colonial American
Varisia: Bohemian & Eastern European
Linnorm Kings: Norse
Qadira: Arabian
Osirion: Egyptian
Katapesh: general Middle Eastern
Shoanti: Shoanti
Mammoth Lords: Innuit & American Indian
Molthune: Nazi German (already conquered Nirmathas, Lastwall & Druma)
Brevoy: Russian
Mwangi: Central African
Mediogalti: Sicilian

Thassilonian Decent:
Varisian (Ustalov)
Molthun
/
Chelaxian
Taldoran
Andoran
Sargavan

Osirion Decent:
Osirion

Keleshite Decent:
Katapeshi
Qadiran

Kellid Decent:
Linnorm Kings (mixed Azlanti)
/
Mammoth Lords
Shoanti
Sarkoran
/
Issian
Restovian
Brevoyan

Galtan Decent:
various of Galt

[SwnyNerdgasm]

Here's the way I see it

Chelaxian - Renaissance Italy
Garundi - Non pulp era northern Africa
Keleshite - Middle Eastern
Kellid - Celts/Goths, the barbarian tribes that annoyed Rome
Mwangi - "Pulp era" Tribesmen of Deepest Africa
Taldan - The Eastern Roman Empire
Tian - Chinese/Japanese/Korean
Ulfen - Vikings
Varisian - Romani
Vudrani - Indian
Shoanti - I know it's not implied anywhere in the books but I just think of either the Huns or the Mongols. But you're probably right about them being native americans
Azlanti - Atlantis/Thule/Lemuria analogs

[The Shaman]

I'd say Varisians might be generic Eastern Europe/steppes, with the Sczarny really hitting the "gypsy" stereotype. Then again, apparently most varisians are nomads and travellers, I was under the impression most have settled down.

Taldor sounded a bit like Byzantium. Like it, it has various ethnicities, the important part is sticking up for the empire.

[Mikaze]

James Jacobs wrote:

We'll be going into Tian Xia's ethnicities more in the upcoming Dragon Empires book; there's a few that aren't mentioned in the Inner Sea World Guide as well.

Please have Khmer please have Khmer please have Khmer

Also Angkor. :)

[Twigs]

Mikaze wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

We'll be going into Tian Xia's ethnicities more in the upcoming Dragon Empires book; there's a few that aren't mentioned in the Inner Sea World Guide as well.

Please have Khmer please have Khmer please have Khmer

Also Angkor. :)

+100

[Greg A. Vaughan]

The Varki seem very Inuit to me.

[Kerney]

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

The Varki seem very Inuit to me.

Sami/Lapp is what they seemed like to me.

[Miranda Silva]

Generic Villain wrote:

lastgrasp wrote:

So Iobaria the Russian analogy?

Not really. The Russia analogy is Irrisen and Brevoy - Iobaria was settled largely by Linnorm King vikings, though it has since been devastasted by a series of plagues. There's certainly some Russian "feel" to it, but again, Brevoy and Irrisen are the places that scream Old Country/Motherland.

Iobaria is more like Siberia.

[Jimmathy1]

Is there an ethnicity or nation out already that represents east africa or is that something that may come in an expansion of Garund later?

[Virellius]

Jimmathy1 wrote:

Is there an ethnicity or nation out already that represents east africa or is that something that may come in an expansion of Garund later?

As an Urgathoa Profile Pic User, I approve of this thread necromancy.

I would check the Mwangi Expanse setting book as it is a whole several hundred pages of Mwangi Expanse lore which of course includes large swathes of Garund; I'm not personally extremely knowledgeable about African history but when it comes to the eastern portion, there is also Osirian as an Egypt analogue of course.

[keftiu]

Jimmathy1 wrote:

Is there an ethnicity or nation out already that represents east africa or is that something that may come in an expansion of Garund later?

Lost Omens: Impossible Lands covers the sort of Horn-equivalent portion of Garund, and most of the folk there are ethnically Garundi.

[Perpdepog]

I think I was half-way down this thread before I realized that it's over ten years old. Explains why nobody was bringing up PF2E books in their discussion, lol.

[Pope Uncommon the Dainty]

I have always seen (and often described!) Nidal as:

"A wide variety of Frances, from the Dark Medieval to how mid-20th-century USians imagined urban Paris, by way of Conan the Barbarian and Hellraiser. Which comes out feeling a lot like the Chronicles of Riddick lol"

The French and Riddick bits seem the most "modern Nidal qua modern Nidal", while the Hellraiser bit is obviously the influence of Zonny K and his velly boys. Conan the Barbarian is my way of mentioning the ancient Kellid influence, though tbh I see a strong element of not only REH's Cimmerians but the **actual** Cimmerians of the Caucasus region in the Kellid, as well as some Mongol influence in their names (Attai, for example, feels very Mongol to me), specifically the Mongol empire without a centralized ruler like Chingis Khan (so, basically, how we imagine the Mongols).

I know everyone says that Taldor is French, but (noting that I'ven't really dug into the Taldanes), it feels more "Byzantine Empire if it wasn't the surviving portion of the Roman Empire, but rather had the historical place of Rome instead".

Cheliax feels more like Iberia (minus the Andalusia part of history) with some Italianate bits thrown in.

Varisia I have often described as "Ancient Greek city-states by way of the Rom/Sinti, with some Native American-esque cultures in the non-urban areas", though I feel like that description of the Shoanti might be quite outdated at this point.

Like...one thing i appreciate about Golarion is that it manages to have cultural analogues without cultural allegories and part of that is that I can't just say, for example, Brevoy=Russia but rather **have** to inflect that with additional description. And that description can ALSO pull ona nalogue and be relatively quick, too! It's one of the Worldbuilding Wonders of the World lol