That'll be nice to interact with those NPCs, though. I've mined Burnt Offerings for a homebrew, and I've run Second Darkness all the way through, so I'm familiar with the Tsutos and Shalelu. Looking forward to mashing it all together for Jade Regent.
And no worries on being a bit spacey. I'll be going on vacation soon, with a one-day visit to Gen Con myself. I'll have limited access to the boards with my smart phone, but I'll have a tough time with the interactive maps. Hopefully, you can bear with me during those days.
Well, regarding how to handle the NPCs, you know I don't have a problem covering for another character. I'm good with running an NPC and keeping them in the shadows until/unless the party truly needs them. There's lots of ways for an NPC to be conveniently unavailable when the fighting breaks out.
Well, regarding how to handle the NPCs, you know I don't have a problem covering for another character. I'm good with running an NPC and keeping them in the shadows until/unless the party truly needs them. There's lots of ways for an NPC to be conveniently unavailable when the fighting breaks out.
Some of my thinking on the point is affected by how Aubrey handles the NPCs in the Eberron game - it often seems your "party" is roughly double the number of actual playes at any given time, and it works just fine there. But I have no idea how well that might work for this game and group.
I think I will probably put the caravan's statblock into my DM profile, though, regardless - even if the NPCs never show up there.
The NPCs' handling in the Eberron game is genius, whether intentional or not. A party doing what we are doing is going to hire some muscle and by letting us run the muscle, he is free of the hassle (and they don't make decisions based on DM subconscious knowledge) and, more importantly to me as a player, whoever wants to run them, runs them. If my character is out of commission for some reason, I can play one of the NPCs. It just gives everyone another opportunity to stay in the game. Genius, I tell you.
OK, maybe not 'genius', but very effective. And, to respond to Gan's concern, they are pretty much invisible when we are not in combat (they are essentially foot soldiers - big ones), but they do give the DM another way to provide clues - and red herrings.
It's a fun game.
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Regarding your discoveries in the UC, I'm open to some possibilities. The little I've heard, I thought the knife fighter (?) rogue archetype was kind of like Lamsfel with the emphasis on light blades -- but part of my attraction to this build was the opportunity to pick up feats to specialize in those light blades, pick up bonus feats focused on them, etc. The swashbuckler has a lot of roguish feel, but he's still definitely a hitter first.
Anyway, that's just to give you an idea of where I was so you can compare that to what you were considering. I'm open to retraining him so we can both be happy with the build.
I'm fine with whichever way you decide to run the NPCs and wouldn't mind running one myself if need be (that is to say in combat, of course).
By the way, I don't think Tristan is overpowered. It's just that he's a bit of a glass cannon. But I think that will get better when he picks up archery at level 2. He'll be fun to play, though. I get to play so little that I actually enjoy running Joe the fighter. :)
It just occured to me that I'm glad we're not running through The Skinsaw Murders. I don't think Marcelina could handle that kind of.... "attention." :)
Just wanted to say that I certainly don't mind using an NPC in addition to my own guy. Definitely cool with it.
I looked through the Player's Guide and must say I'm stoked. I'll have to rebuild Tristan a bit (he was designed for RotRL, after all) to either a core ranger or a guide.
The thing is, I'd like Tristan to have a huge, boyish crush on Sandru. Would that be offensive to anyone? The AP seems to be set up to have that kind of relationships evolve, but I know that it's a sensitive topic.
Hmm, if you are not going to be an urban ranger, we are suddenly without a character with trapfinding, correct? Perhaps I should lean toward the knife fighter rogue archetype and call it good...
Shisumo, can you share the particulars of that archetype? Or do you think it's not a good choice? I hate to lose the BAB is the main thing for me.
I'm looking through the guide. Still not sure at all who I'm going to go with, let alone how she'll be related to the person.
I'm fine with whatever you do Tristan. Though I don't really feel like you need my permission to play your char however you want. :)
Oops, missed the important question. Do what you will, Tristan, just don't do anything that will make me blush when I read it. ;-)
EDIT: -------------------------
Regarding the rogue archetype, I've seen it commented that it loses trapfinding, which is not what I'm looking for, so maybe that won't work, after all. I could re-cast him as a ranger, I suppose, but I'm still liking those roguish abilities of the swashbuckler...
EDIT: -------------------------
Regarding the NPCs, I'm leaning toward one of the more family-type relationships, so my choice (whatever it is) probably won't cause any friction with anyone else. I've only just realized the PG was available and what you guys were talking about, so I've only had about ten minutes to peruse it. I'll play Koya if no one else wants to.
The archeologist bard archetype might actually work rather well for your idea, Ainvar. I'll try to find some time this weekend to type it up (or at least sketch it out for you). The short version is that it loses bardic performance almost entirely, replacing it with some inherent self-buffs and a bunch of rogue abilities, including a version of trapfinding. The only issue is that it has no bonus stabbity damage (a la Thrust or sneak attack); on the other hand, it does have spells...
The archeologist bard archetype might actually work rather well for your idea, Ainvar. I'll try to find some time this weekend to type it up (or at least sketch it out for you). The short version is that it loses bardic performance almost entirely, replacing it with some inherent self-buffs and a bunch of rogue abilities, including a version of trapfinding. The only issue is that it has no bonus stabbity damage (a la Thrust or sneak attack); on the other hand, it does have spells...
Not too worried about extra stabbity damage - am concerned about survivability if he's a front-liner. Though Tristan makes that less necessary...
The archeologist bard archetype might actually work rather well for your idea, Ainvar. I'll try to find some time this weekend to type it up (or at least sketch it out for you). The short version is that it loses bardic performance almost entirely, replacing it with some inherent self-buffs and a bunch of rogue abilities, including a version of trapfinding. The only issue is that it has no bonus stabbity damage (a la Thrust or sneak attack); on the other hand, it does have spells...Not too worried about extra stabbity damage - am concerned about survivability if he's a front-liner. Though Tristan makes that less necessary...
If we assume you were playing a bard, you'd have access to healing spells, which might help some.
Not too worried about extra stabbity damage - am concerned about survivability if he's a front-liner. Though Tristan makes that less necessary...If we assume you were playing a bard, you'd have access to healing spells, which might help some.
Stepping back from the swashbuckler and looking at the items on my wishlist, I'm considering some more left-turn options - it would require a change of alignment, but he might actually make a fair weapon-based monk. Also, there might be a barbarian build of interest.
Right now, I'm planning to review monk options in the APG. He might go from a dual-shortsword wielder to a dual-dagger wielder full time. (Are daggers considered monk weapons? I'll have to check.)
Yes they are.
Hmm, the weapon adept archetype for the monk might be a way to go. The Perfect Strike feat at first level would require him to use something other than daggers, though. The daggers would remain his backup weapons, I think, but his primary weapons would be kama.
Still mulling this over -- I'm not sure his ability scores would not need some massaging to make that work best.
If the DM approves an ability change of swapping Wis10, Cha14 for Wis14, Cha10, I think I can live with Lamsfel as a Weapon Adept monk, using the kama as his primary weapon instead of the short sword. Much of the build is retained though the extra stabbity damage is no longer available.
Obviously, there's other goodness that will take the sting out of that loss. ;-) There are several adjustments, none of them particular major and I don't think any of them actually necessarily change anything he's done so far in the game, really.
Naturally, I'm open to any cool new monk things from the UC if the DM cares to share them...
In place of the TWF feat, Lamsfel would use his flurry of blows.
In place of the skill point in bluff, Lamsfel would take a point in Stealth.
He loses two hit points and his AC drops by 2.
The sharp-eyed trait doesn't make much sense since he already has that as a class skill (as a monk). His other trait on the original build was Reactionary (+2 to initiative) is that an acceptable swap?
EDIT: The dagger is not considered a special monk weapon, so he would not be using it for the flurry of blows. Also, his inventory would have to be drastically reduced. I've done all of the work for such changes, but I won't actually change the character until/unless the DM approves.
If monks are on the table, there are two other archetypes in UC that might also scratch the itch.
Martial Artist: has no alignment restriction. Gives up: still mind, slow fall, ki pool, purity of body, diamond body, wholeness of body, timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon, diamond soul, empty body and perfect self (and will probably give up abundant step, though that's going to have to wait for errata). Gains: +1 to crit confirms and to stunning fist DCs, qualifies for fighter-only feats using monk level if feat is applied to unarmed strikes or monk weapons, the ability to make a level + Wis mod check vs target's CR to gain +2 to attacks the ability to ignore DR, immunity to fatigue/exhaustion/stunning, reduced penalties or damage whenever he suffers penalties or damage to ability scores, defensive roll (as rogue talent), +1 quivering palm/day for every level after 15th, and greater defensive roll (as improved evasion for defensive roll).
Sohei: proficient with simple and martial weapons and light armor. Gains Handle Animal as class skill. Gives up: stunning fist, unarmed damage improvement after 3rd level, fast movement, slow fall, abundant step, purity of body, diamond body, quivering palm, timeless body, and tongue of the sun and moon. Gains: ability to always act in surprise round, +1/2 level to initiative checks, ability to take mounted combat feats as monk bonus feats, ability to share monk special abilities (including ki use) with his mount, ability to spend ki point to give unrmed strike or wielded weapon +1 enhancement/4 monk levels until end of next turn, weapon training (as fighter class feature) for bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons and can flurry with and use ki strike with any weapon he has weapon training for.
Feel like I should point out that there's no monk that gets Disable Device as a class ability or trapfinding, the lack of which was (I thought) the biggest reason why you were thinking of switching classes...
If monks are on the table, there are two other archetypes in UC that might also scratch the itch.
Martial Artist: ...
Sohei: ...
Feel like I should point out that there's no monk that gets Disable Device as a class ability or trapfinding, the lack of which was (I thought) the biggest reason why you were thinking of switching classes...
No, the biggest reason I was looking at switching classes was because 1) the swashbuckler is kind of broken and 2) UC gives me a chance to hopefully mimic it with PF-native rules.
However, the fact that we have no trapfinder is cause for concern. Poll for the other characters: Should Lamsfel retrain as someone with trapfinding and Disable Device?
If monks are on the table, there are two other archetypes in UC that might also scratch the itch.
Martial Artist: ...
Sohei: ...
Feel like I should point out that there's no monk that gets Disable Device as a class ability or trapfinding, the lack of which was (I thought) the biggest reason why you were thinking of switching classes...
No, the biggest reason I was looking at switching classes was because 1) the swashbuckler is kind of broken and 2) UC gives me a chance to hopefully mimic it with PF-native rules.
However, the fact that we have no trapfinder is cause for concern. Poll for the other characters: Should Lamsfel retrain as someone with trapfinding and Disable Device?
The best trapfinder/disabler is a summoned monkey, IMO. :-)
I gotta say that it would be nice for someone to be able to find and disable traps. If you're willing to do it... :)
Tristan could take a level of rogue for that matter. It's just that the urban ranger seems to be a very bad fit for the AP.
That's not necessary, Tristan. You have a concept, run with it. I have a concept, but the original class I was using has issues. I can make a rogue build do what I have in mind. Or a rogue/monk build... Or a rogue/fighter build... So many choices!!
I hate when the postmonster eats my posts.
Short version: if urban ranger is something you'd like to stick with, Tom, I'd be open to some houserules to correct the class issues for this campaign. (I'm thinking specifically of replacing the favored community with a type of community off of this list.)
Also, romance is not a problem for me as a GM, though I will spoiler some of the flirty bits so blushing eyes need not "listen" in. ;)
After looking at it, I'm probably going with Rescued as the campaign trait. Having been rescued by Koya when she was a young girl. This fits in well with the background (as Koya did travel a bit and it means Marcelina needn't have been to Sandpoint before) and it also gives a handy bonus. :)
I'm leaning toward multiclassing in monk (weapon adept (kama)) and rogue. It's disappointing how many rogue archetypes that sound very cool discard the trapfinding ability for the new abilities. Just an observation - that doesn't strike me as an optional ability if you are really a rogue.
Perhaps something in UC will be a worthwhile archetype - Lamsfel's primary focus will be combat and trapfinding, so if you find an archetype that builds on combat without sacrificing trapfinding, I'd like to hear about it. If not, the straightforward rogue is fine -- he'll primarily be a monk, anyway.
As far as traits, I'm leaning toward Student Survivalist. I'm drawn to Shalelu for some reason, always have been.
DM Shisumo, if the changes I proposed earlier are cool with you, Lamsfel's next level will be as a rogue and I'll convert him to the weapon adept whenever you give the word.
DM Shisumo, if the changes I proposed earlier are cool with you, Lamsfel's next level will be as a rogue and I'll convert him to the weapon adept whenever you give the word.
Leave him as-is for now. There's a handy time-jump at the end of the prologue (which will also, assuming you survive, happen to coincide with hitting level 2) for rebuilds. That's when the campaign traits will kick in and any rebuilding anyone wants to do can happen (though if you know which trait you are going to want to take, you can definitely start working on the non-mechanical elements as soon as it makes sense).
Got it, he remains unchanged. I'll probably spoiler his changes so it's a quick swap when the time comes.
Based on the campaign traits offered, I am tempted to alter his history so that he has actually spent significant time in the area (he's older than the town, actually), but he's been wandering of late. As a result, he's familiar with the town and the older two NPCs, but the details of the community have changed and Ameiko and Sandru were children, if they were born, when last he was around, so he really doesn't know them very well. Sound reasonable?
Got it, he remains unchanged. I'll probably spoiler his changes so it's a quick swap when the time comes.
Based on the campaign traits offered, I am tempted to alter his history so that he has actually spent significant time in the area (he's older than the town, actually), but he's been wandering of late. As a result, he's familiar with the town and the older two NPCs, but the details of the community have changed and Ameiko and Sandru were children, if they were born, when last he was around, so he really doesn't know them very well. Sound reasonable?
Works for me. That's actually fairly similar to what Shalelu's been up to, in fact, though she stays closer and probably arrived after you wandered off.
Urban ranger will work fine for Tristan, so we'll have trapfinding covered. I thought it would be fun to play a ranger who's not an outdoorsy guy, only it looked severely suboptimal in the Player's Guide. I think I'll just change his favored enemy to animal when it comes to that. And thanks for being openminded about Tristans romantic future.
Works for me. That's actually fairly similar to what Shalelu's been up to, in fact, though she stays closer and probably arrived after you wandered off.Got it, he remains unchanged. I'll probably spoiler his changes so it's a quick swap when the time comes.
Based on the campaign traits offered, I am tempted to alter his history so that he has actually spent significant time in the area (he's older than the town, actually), but he's been wandering of late. As a result, he's familiar with the town and the older two NPCs, but the details of the community have changed and Ameiko and Sandru were children, if they were born, when last he was around, so he really doesn't know them very well. Sound reasonable?
Hmm, how old is she? That would mean my campaign trait has to be with Koya because everyone else is too young or too recently-arrived. I was debating "Student Survivalist" with Shalelu. I was thinking he would have left about a decade ago, maybe longer -- what say he was there for about six months after Shalelu's arrival in the area and took his new skills on the road, where he received his monk training. Now he's returned to town.
Urban ranger will work fine for Tristan, so we'll have trapfinding covered. I thought it would be fun to play a ranger who's not an outdoorsy guy, only it looked severely suboptimal in the Player's Guide.
I understand that sentiment, I debated that class, too, as a replacement to swashbuckler, but two rangers seemed a little odd for the party. I was only basically the dip into rogue for the trapfinding, much as I dislike that tactic, so if it's no longer a concern, I will stay with the monk build. No extra stabbity damage, but I think there's plenty of other features to recommend it.
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I assume the Weapon Adept and Martial Artist archetypes cannot be stacked. The Weapon Adept gives up Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. He also gives up Timeless Body and Perfect Self, so they overlap... too bad, might be interesting.
Just now downloaded the Player's Guide and looked through it.
As of right now, I don't see a whole lot of retooling I need to do.
The tough choice is which trait to take. I'm leaning toward Rescued by Shalelu. Being on a ship kind of limited many of the choices, but I've always thought of the Cloud sailing up and down the Varisian coastline. So he could have been on shore for some reason, and been in need of rescuing.
Does that work for you?
Just now downloaded the Player's Guide and looked through it.
As of right now, I don't see a whole lot of retooling I need to do.
The tough choice is which trait to take. I'm leaning toward Rescued by Shalelu. Being on a ship kind of limited many of the choices, but I've always thought of the Cloud sailing up and down the Varisian coastline. So he could have been on shore for some reason, and been in need of rescuing.
Does that work for you?
It could, but remember we also have a 4 year gap we'll be skipping over. There's plenty of time to get rescued later as well.
Ahh, good point.
And I suppose I'll wait for Ultimate Combat comes out before saying there's nothing to retool yet.
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Ahh, good point.
And I suppose I'll wait for Ultimate Combat comes out before saying there's nothing to retool yet.
The magus options in UC are extremely interesting, but the archetypes in particular definitely come with sacrifices as well as benefits, most notably the fact that most of them have reduced spellcasting (as the cloistered cleric archetype). There are several pretty solid arcana, though.
A quick pass looks pretty good, but I note he still says "swashbuckler" at the top. ;)
A quick pass looks pretty good, but I note he still says "swashbuckler" at the top. ;)
Well, of course. That was just to make sure you were paying attention. *ahem*
Looks like Tristan won't have to think hard to choose a campaign trait :-)
Heading out to GenCon in the morning. Will try to be around over the next few days, but the next time I will likely be posting regularly is Monday. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves if you want, and have a good weekend.
Ah, the benefits of fortuitous geography... enjoy your trip!
So, while he's gone... what do we want to do? What do you think comes next? I'm curious how the prologue works since I'm familiar with RotRL but not what he's cooking up. Always fun to look at something again with fresh eyes!
Heading out to GenCon in the morning. Will try to be around over the next few days, but the next time I will likely be posting regularly is Monday. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves if you want, and have a good weekend.
Have fun!
I had to cancel my Gencon trip last year (my wife did the Three Day Walk for the Cure--fell at the same time), so all year I've been like: "I'm going to Gencon this year." But I decided to cancel my trip this year (as I'm buying a house and our closing is in two weeks).
One of these years I'll get to go, hehe.
So....
I'm pretty happy with how things are going so far - posting pace has been good, I haven't gotten overwhelmed with keeping up with GMing this and playing in my other PbPs (or any of my real-life obligations) - and I'm thinking I might go ahead and start a second PbP. I'm still debating the nature of the game, current frontrunners include Legacy of Fire and trying my hand at a dungeon delve into the Red Redoubt, but I was wondering if any of you are interested in signing up and helping me decide what to run.
Gah! I can't say no! I have some characters lying fallow from failed or discontinued games that I could bring over...
I don't know what the Red Redoubt is. I read through some of the LoF when it came in the mail and I've played a PbP through I guess about half of the first module (but I can certainly keep player knowledge separate, and it has been over a year since it graced my mailbox, anyway).
I can't make an educated choice knowing only one of the options, but I'd be happy to participate in that option if you chose it. Or the other if I'm overruled.
I own and have read Legacy of Fire, and honestly playing Tristan makes it painfully obvious that I'm a crappy role-player. But I wouldn't mind some dungeon crawling if you'll have me.
Not sure... but I am enjoying what we've got here. I may be able to add another.
I've already played through Legacy of Fire, so going through that again is somewhat low on the desire-o-meter.
The Red Redoubt is a mega-dungeon sitting on the outskirts of Absalom. It's described in one of the chapters in Dungeons of Golarion. I've read that chapter, but I don't think it had any real spoilers, since that book is mainly designed to inspire DMs to creating their own levels and traps and threats inside that fit the dungeon's "theme."
I'd be more interested in exploring that.
I must admit to, like AinvarG, having a hard time saying no. :) I've actually GMed LoF clear through (great fun btw) and while I wouldn't be adverse to playing it, I think the idea of a dungeon crawl also sounds like some fun. It'd be a pretty different tack for me as I've done mostly RP oriented stuff.
Sounds like an majority prefer a dungeon crawl. I'm fine with that.
And BT, I think you're doing fine with Tristan - I'm definitely seeing a character there. For what it's worth, I often feel the same way about my various dysfunctional characters, though. So I just keep trying!