Aside from a wish that this product existed, what would be on your wish list for an Advanced Class Guide?
Me, I was always fond of the optional rules for custom class creation on pages 22-23 of the 2nd edition DMG. Before the days of 3.0, I quite enjoyed tinkering with all of the funky base classes you could build using those rules.
Back in the early 90s I used that system myself. However, I took a closer look at the classes and changed numbers around a bit so that it worked for all of the different classes in the PHB. That made it more fair, as the values listed in the DMG were off in several cases.
A rogue.
I mean if this book get printed the roguish class will be better rogue than the rogue (cause otherwise it woudl be worthless) so let call that class "the rogue" and pretend the CRB rogue never existed.
You have a point. Many people complain about the Rogue and Fighter. I have seen complaints about the Cavalier, as well. An Advanced Fighter and Advanced Rogue are good ideas.
A Cavalier that has a dragon for a steed would be cool. Have the dragon bound to him, and it grows as he gains levels. It could also be a prestige class that starts at a later level, so that the character can have a great wyrm at higher levels. Sure, my character is a wimpy Cavalier, but my dragon will eat you (and cast spells for me).
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Having thought about this, I know what I want.
I want a big book of new ways of thinking of classes and running the game. A bunch of new rules and variant mechanics, ala Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Campaign. Specifically, a Class Builder.
I'd like the ten new classes to be built using the Class Builder, potentially also using new mechanics from it. Demos of the rules pre-built and pre-balanced for use in PFS and option-conservative homegames.
I'd like alternate ways of having classes. Such as the gestalt classes from 3e's Unearthed Arcana. And more complicated versions of the generic classes from the same book.
It'd be neat to have an alternate level system.
Such as a level-less version of the game where you pick options after so much experience, slowly building power. So you level at the same rate, after picking a set number of options.
Am I the only one who cringes at the sound of a "swashbuckler" class because from my memories people only played it so they could level dip and get Weapon Finesse for free? Would you people even play a swashbuckler for being a swashbuckler? Seems to me they could just make it a fighter archetype.
Am I the only one who cringes at the sound of a "swashbuckler" class because from my memories people only played it so they could level dip and get Weapon Finesse for free? Would you people even play a swashbuckler for being a swashbuckler? Seems to me they could just make it a fighter archetype.
really if it was any more then a fighter archetype i am pretty sure it would be really redundant
Am I the only one who cringes at the sound of a "swashbuckler" class because from my memories people only played it so they could level dip and get Weapon Finesse for free? Would you people even play a swashbuckler for being a swashbuckler? Seems to me they could just make it a fighter archetype.really if it was any more then a fighter archetype i am pretty sure it would be really redundant
it was a 3 level dip for the following benefits with a rogue type character
Weapon Finesse
int to damage with finesse weapons
the Daring Outlaw feat, which effectively pseudogestalted rogue and swashbuckler levels. effectively negating the lost sneak attack damage
an extra point of BAB over a straight rogue
6 extra hit points over a straight rogue (D6 Vs D10)
then from there you choose whether you wanted
better Health and BAB?
or
better Skills?
I can see them amalgamating everything from the rogue and fighter making a superclass and calling it the swashbuckler.
By the way, that's sarcasm.
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Some archetypes that seem to have been overlooked:
- Noble (A bard that does not cast spells but whose presence boosts those around him and can requests resources the party needs.)
- An archetype for cavalier that does not have a mount or any other kind of "pet." (Like Eric from the D&D cartoon or Captain America)
- An alchemist who makes gadgets and clockwork constructs.
- A druid that gets shapeshifting at level 1.
- A summoner that does not cast spells but instead acts as a combat partner for the eidolon (i.e. Gilgamesh and Enkidu) or has roguish skills (Pete's Dragon).
- A witch that casts with charisma and focuses on illusions and mind control, especially with the opposite sex.
- A sorcerer that really needs no material components at all (all SLAs or supernatural).
I would also like some witch hexes that are good-only.
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Fighter's unarmed fighter and brawler archetypes aren't good enough, especially as they don't boost unarmed strike dice (to do that you have to have Monastic Legacy which means you also have to dip three levels into monk). Even if one boosted it to 1d4 that would be nice (because 1d3 is annoying to roll).Bit off topic, but...
Actually, the Brawler archetype is *really* good at unarmed damage at later levels. Early on, they're better off with two handed weapons, but late game, they get a crap-ton of combat modifiers.
+7 damage from weapon training
+4 from weapon specialization+5 to hit from weapon training
+1 to hit from GWF
Any fighter can get those same bonuses. The brawler and the unarmed fighter get absolutely no advantages over any other fighter when it comes to damage. What they get is a variety of bonuses and tricks related to combat maneuvers and a few other things, like harrying spellcasters.
Those off-set Power Attack's final penalty (-6 hit, +12 damage), which puts you at +23 more damage per strike than a monk (or +6 hit/+11 damage if the monk is also using power attack). That easily makes up for the damage dice, and even then, you can use a monk's robe, or take a few levels in Style Master for crane/dragon style and then pick up Monastic Legacy.
What part of "1d3 is annoying to roll" do you not understand?
Look, I get what you're saying. I just don't want to have to roll a damage die I have to stop, look, and think a second before I report the result. I just want the result to be what I rolled. I want a better damage die, so I can cease being annoyed. That is all. These may be petty and insignificant reasons to you and probably most sane people, but this is a "wish list" and is thus my post is about what I wish, not about how I make do with what I've got.
And besides, if you got all the fighter bonuses to unarmed strike AND improved damage dice, damage would even be better, wouldn't it? Especially if you want to try to do a crit build--not optimal with unarmed strike, no, as your chances of critting are lower, but still it's fun when you confirm that 20 and roll 4d10 instead of 2d3.
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Am I the only one who cringes at the sound of a "swashbuckler" class because from my memories people only played it so they could level dip and get Weapon Finesse for free? Would you people even play a swashbuckler for being a swashbuckler? Seems to me they could just make it a fighter archetype.If paizo design the class to be DIp friendly only then people wil just dip the class. The same happens with any other class (Master of many styles monks).
So, in the end it is about of how good the class is designed.
I am hoping all of the new classes require a 3 - 4 level investment before offering any truly unique advantages that other classes can borrow.
I am hoping all of the new classes require a 3 - 4 level investment before offering any truly unique advantages that other classes can borrow.Am I the only one who cringes at the sound of a "swashbuckler" class because from my memories people only played it so they could level dip and get Weapon Finesse for free? Would you people even play a swashbuckler for being a swashbuckler? Seems to me they could just make it a fighter archetype.If paizo design the class to be DIp friendly only then people wil just dip the class. The same happens with any other class (Master of many styles monks).
So, in the end it is about of how good the class is designed.
I think Paizo has done a good job with class design, where if you stick with any given class, you get a lot of unique advantages and moreover, bonuses that add up -- BUT that they are solid enough at low levels that multiclassing is an option for those who want more versatility. I hope they stick to that design principle--that single classing has its own rewards, and multiclassing offers additional options and versatility. I LOVE what can be done with multiclassing--and there are plenty of drawbacks built into it (borking caster levels, for example--that I would not want multiclassing to become an unwelcome option.
Neither should it be the only optimal option, of course. If all a class is ever good for is its first level, then yes, that's a problem, but there are very few if any classes that are like that in Pathfinder, and I truly doubt there will ever be any.
3. a custom class creation system
This. This is all I want.
I would like to some archetypes or something that would remove the alignment restrictions for some classes ex. a non-lawful monk that still uses ki abilities, more archetypes and maybe a class or archetype that focuses on/is better at using natural attacks.
What I want to see:
A summoner archetype that builds a Mech instead of summoning an outsider.
What I want to see:
A summoner archetype that builds a Mech instead of summoning an outsider.
^This. I had the idea of making a summoner who's eidolon was based off of the iron giant(and my character would ride on it's shoulders but that can't be done for other reasons) and that archetype would fit very well with my idea.
A class creation or archetype creation system would also be nice to see.
As it turns out, paizo has nothing planned for this release, and are just watching this thread to get ideas for the 10 classes that people want to see...
I would prefer to see an Alchemist that drops Mutagen in favor of extra spells, bombs and/or feats.. Additionally, a Druid that drops Wildshape for summon Monster or a worthwhile bonus feats. I am disappointed by not being able to use Nature Child in PFS.
Build-a-Class would be a welcome addition, too.
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Drop the synthesist archetype in favor of a full class write up. There are several suggestions for doing this that fix the inconsistencies and address the balance issues.
An alternate idea: instead of using any the the current suggested fixes, make it a full BAB, 4 level arcane caster drawing from the standard wizard/sorcerer spell list.
Classes
Tinkerer - similar to the machinesmith (NeoExudus games)/Artificer (Ebberron) that creates science wonders and useful contraptions. Should concentrate on the ability;
- to create turrets,
- use spells (4th lv like ranger/paladin),
- create constructs or utilises strange works of art (like inspector gadget or Leanardo assassin creed 2. Focus intelligence class.
Eg wonder/contraption
Spring boots
Set on coiled springs these boots allow the wearer to jump as per the jump spell as a caster whose level is equivalent to the tinker's level
Mystic - A hybrid of the Gypsy (Dreadfox games)and Magic the Gathering deck yourself/mill deck (blue/black).
Essentially the mystic will have four types of cards. Spell cards, Minion cards, item cards and meta cards
- spell cards function as any other spell. However they are drawn from a spell library when the mystic wishes to cast a spell (random). The mystic can hold the spell card or discard it for another, redrawing from the spell library next turn. The spell library is shuffled when the mystic rest. The spell library is chosen similar to that of a wizard who prepares his spells in the morning, and has a number of spells in it equal to the wizard. The mystic must create the cards like a wizard scribing a scroll to there spell bock, when wanting to make new spell cards for there deck.
- Minion cards are incorporated into the spell library. A minion card functions as a summon monster spell, however the mystic can tailor the minion card upon crating it. Eg a minion card might summon a named NPC from the NPC codex, a dead hero who returns as a spirit, a group of loyal peasants the mystic helped in the past, a specific monster etc
- item cards are just as they sound, useful items. later the Mystic can can magic item cards to there deck, but cease function and disappear after an allotted amount of time. Eg a mystic might put several alchemist fire cards when facing trolls. The items are chosen and added to the deck when the mystic rests.
- A meta spell deck rests to the side in which a mystic can choose to add a metamagic feat to a spell from there spell deck. Essentially since cards are drawn at random from the spell deck shuffled when they rest, the meta deck will allow a Mystic to essentially deck/discard a number of cards from the top of there spell deck equal to the meta level they wish to apply. Eg Extending a spell they would have to discard one card from the top of there spell library, Quickening they would have to discard 4 cards. Discarding such cards reduces there allotted number of spells they can cast in a day. And since drawn randomly, balances out. Eg, quickening a time stop spell at level 9, may result in the mystic discard 4 other level 9 spells because they rest at the top of her spell deck under the time stop card when she shuffled it.
- later the Mystic can get talents like that of a rogue which allow them to modify there deck, or utilise it better
Eg;
- Draw two cards a round and choose one spell to cast and return the other to the bottom of there library
- can hold two spell cards instead of one
- shuffle there spell deck
- play with the top card of there spell deck revealed, the card is only revealed at the end of the mystics turn.
- return a card in from there spell graveyard (a previously used spell) to there spell library, or
- Discard a number of cards from the top of there library equal to the spell they wish to return from the graveyard to there hand, return that card to there hand and they can cast it this round (MTG dredge ability)
- add an additional spellcard or item card to there deck, which must be at least one level lower then the highest spell the mystic can cast
etc
Sounds costly to incorporate. Wrong. Paizo already offers such cards, all that would be required is to create some plastic sleeves/card protectors, which would allow a person to use items from the Carrion Crown item card deck along with item cards from another series.
Speaker - Skyrim shouts, truename magic and abilities taken from noble class (tome of ingenuity - little red goblin games)
- class has a seething tongue which cause damage (see noble class), CHA focused
- can sting together words of power
- based similar to the warlock (Complete Arcana), Shadowcaster (Tome of Magic) and dragon adept (Dragon Magic) dnd 3.5.
- with the words of magic have words places next to the magic. In the Ultimate magic book it list spell words, but add a name for them so players have to say it. EG RAH (target one character at close range [25ft+5ft per caster level]) - TOOK (Does 5d6 damage) - ZEN (does acid elemental damage)
So RAH-TOOK-ZEN shout targets one character at close range, deals 5d6 acid damage.
- later the speaker could add extra power words
eg 4 words instead of one (of which one must be a meta magic)
LON - Empowered metamagic power word
RAH-TOOK-LON-ZEN shout targets one character at close range, deals 8d6 acid damage.
- words of power can also have levels - Minor, Medium, Major words of power, or schools - siren (water/charm focus), odin (sonic/lightning)etc like the shadowcaster or warlock.
Psyker (couldn't think of something better)
Pretty much similar to the jedi starwars ropleplaying game.
- Give up all skills for a new skill list.
- DC of abilities (eg force push) based upon the skill check. Eg force push skill check rolled in total was 24. On skill table skill check 15-19 range was DC 10+WIS, 20-24 DC 15+WIS, 25-29 20+WIS. Since rolled a total of 24 for the skill chck the DC is 15+WIS. Randomises the DC level.
Can't think of any others atm. But do have a trap in mind;
Creature of the Pit (Trap and spell – Summoner 6, Wizard 8)
- Demon bound to extra dimensional pit
- Pit appears as just a shadowy darkness, like that of a deeper darkness spell
- Can be placed on any surface (wall, ceiling, floor)
- Caster creates a ring or set of rings during its construction that make them immune to the Telekinesis effects
- The demon bound inside the pit can pull victims into the darkness via Telekinesis or Telekinetic sphere (higher CR trap)
- Once drawn into the pit the character suffers as though they were being tortured by the creature in hell, or;
- The character faces the demon of the pit directly as an encounter
- The pit is turns spells as per spell turning by the wizard who created it, which refreshes every day
- If the magical trap is dispelled the bound demon has 50% chance being freed or 50% chance sent to its home plane
- The bound demon can see into the room the pit was place as thought the pit itself had Clairaudience-Clairvoyance.
Idea from 'TSR 9586 - A Paladin in Hell' final encounter
I gotta say, I would like to see two 4th level full BAB arcane classes, one to mirror the wizard, and one to mirror the witch, since the witch is to wizard what the druid is to the cleric. It is entirely possible to bring back something akin to the old Hexblade class from 3.5 to mirror the witch and come up with something new to mirror the "paladin" version of the wizard. That's something I'd like to see.
Would also love to see an errata or update to fighters and rogues that doesn't give up anything that they already have so the old archetypes are still compatible.
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I'm going to echo the whole "Artificer/Engineer" thing, and go one further: I'd like to see an Alchemist/Gunslinger hybrid in that role.
Oooh, ooh, something like arcane archer as a base class (think Might and Magic archer).
I'm really not seeing a lot of creativity and imagination in the above suggestions. Spontaneous Druids? Why?
Because, despite the power, I dislike prepared spellcasting, but I like everything else about the Druid.
Engineer/Artificer/Gadgeteer/etc. - add myself to the choir for this.
A class that builds a Construct also sounds interesting.
Another class I would like is something like the Marshal from 3.5 or a more focused Leader.
And an official archetype that lets a Rogue trade out Sneak Attack for Bomb and demolition abilities.
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Holy Champions (Paladins) for all the other alignments.
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I'd love to see reboots of 3.5 Artificer, Beguiler, Warlock, and Swashbuckler. Warmage kinda got booted over as Magus, but perhaps they could run Warmage as well, with a slightly more Casting orientation than the melee orientation of magues, so yeah, my wishlist.
Artificer
Beguiler
Swashbuckler
Warlock
Warmage
I think a Sorcerer bloodline is the best way to do a Beguiler. A Sorcerer or a Summoner archetype might be the best way to do an Artificer, but maybe not.I'd love to see reboots of 3.5 Artificer, Beguiler, Warlock, and Swashbuckler. Warmage kinda got booted over as Magus, but perhaps they could run Warmage as well, with a slightly more Casting orientation than the melee orientation of magues, so yeah, my wishlist.
Artificer
Beguiler
Swashbuckler
Warlock
Warmage
To a degree, but even a illusion focused sorcerer is still nowhere near what a Beguiler as. The cloak-and-dagger casting and such was always a fun mechanic, and it was a cool thematic point as well. Maybe they could do something like booting the beguiler over and giving it a couple rogue talents or something to bring it in line with the current balance level.
How about...
Warblade
Crusader
Swordsage
Yeah baby! Bring back the Bo9S!
And an Artificer of course.
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Warmage kinda got booted over as Magus, but perhaps they could run Warmage as well, with a slightly more Casting orientation than the melee orientation of magues, so yeah, my wishlist.
I always wanted a fighter / wizard that wasn't a fighter who could cast spells, but a wizard who could fight. No armor, or, at most, light armor. No martial weapons, but able to totally kick butt with an arcane bonded pair of daggers or an arcane bonded quarterstaff (or to generate such weapons from arcane energy, like an arcane soulknife!).
No greatswords, no full plate. Just a *wizard* who could deliver his spells through staff strikes or thrown daggers. The Scarred Lands setting had a "Wizard of White Fire" PrC, IIRC, that worked similarly, using a staff as his main weapon, and learning to cast a spell as part of an iterative attack action.
Other than that, a skill-based class that didn't suck, which would probably require a major rethink of the skill system itself, which sometimes seems a bit of a red-headed stepchild compared to feats, which itself seems a small frail neglected cousin of the amount of time and focus spent on the spellcasting mechanic...
Similarly, a class based on equipment, such as an alchemist that *didn't* have a bunch of spells/extracts, and instead actually used the alchemical materials already in the game (to greater effect), could be neat. Such a class would possibly need some sort of daily 'free alchemy' allotment to counter the fact that they'd be literally throwing money at people with every flask of alchemist's fire or whatever, but that seems like a workable mechanic.
@Set - nice idea on the wizard who can fight. I'm also up for a caster that can lug a greatsword around - with competency. Someone will likely pipe up with "you can do that right now with x archetype/PrC/multiclass".
As an aside, my problem with that kind of answer is that this is a "wishlist" thread and I don't see the utility of advising people to not quite reach (or even get close to) their concept by using current options. This always baffles me. Let us have our wishes and dreams. ;)
I could see an artificer as an alchemist/x.
Class Builder, this is the one I want more.
Psychic Magic, I really hope to see it next year.
Artificer, unlikely but I would settle with a class builder.
Any fighter can get those same bonuses. The brawler and the unarmed fighter get absolutely no advantages over any other fighter when it comes to damage.
Not true, actually. They get weapon training earlier for close weapons (includes unarmed attacks), and they get it earlier than other fighters.
But my point wasn't about having a specific archetype for unarmed damage, it was that they could be really good with it. Between the extra combat bonuses, ways to improve unarmed damage, and the brawling enchantment, I feel like unarmed combat is a decently competitive option for fighters
I honestly think that between the monk and fighter (any fighter, like you said the archetype doesn't change much) there are enough options for unarmed fighting that there doesn't need to be a class entirely dedicating to it, just as there doesn't need to be any class dedicated to TWF or archery. What I'd like to see is more archetypes letting other classes (especially magus!) have more unarmed combat viability.
Mr. James Jacobs has said(in the ask James Jacobs thread) that psychic magic will not be in the Advanced Classes Guide. I was also told that the same was said at Gen Con.
Mr. James Jacobs has said(in the ask James Jacobs thread) that psychic magic will not be in the Advanced Classes Guide. I was also told that the same was said at Gen Con.
What about the Psychedelic Mage?
Artificer = Alchemist/Summoner
Am I the only remaining fan of Avatar the last Air Bender (Way to kill the franchise Night!!) who wants to see a Monk/Witch hybrid where all the Hexes are tied to the elements (four options at each break, for element chosen at creation)?
and MMCJawa wouldn't an Artificer be less summoner and more Rogue or Ranger (what with the traps and techno-tricks and what not, and the skills needed, oh the skills . . .)
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Am I the only remaining fan of Avatar the last Air Bender (Way to kill the franchise Night!!) who wants to see a Monk/Witch hybrid where all the Hexes are tied to the elements (four options at each break, for element chosen at creation)?
and MMCJawa wouldn't an Artificer be less summoner and more Rogue or Ranger (what with the traps and techno-tricks and what not, and the skills needed, oh the skills . . .)
I'm a fan of the series, but I'm not sure a Monk/Witch combo is necessarily the way I'd mechanically represent bending. It's certainly an interesting idea though!
Pure Shapeshifter class would be pretty sweet.
I like the idea. A character that permanently mutates themselves like the Witcher (game) would be cool. Mutation points which can be spent to get abilities. Grow some vampire fangs, claws like a bebelith, darkvision like a drow etc
Go to The Witcher.
and MMCJawa wouldn't an Artificer be less summoner and more Rogue or Ranger (what with the traps and techno-tricks and what not, and the skills needed, oh the skills . . .)
I was immediately thinking more that the artificer would have, or at least have an option to have, a sort of automaton creature which would add functions as the character leveled. Kind of like a more restricted list of evolution points similar to the summoner.