Ability Score Generation


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Hello everyone,

Thought I'd share with you some interesting things our group has been up to regarding ability score generation.

First off, when we played 3.5 to begin, we used 4d6 drop the lowest. This was fine, except that the rogue had all of his modifiers add up to a +4 while the paladin had a +9. After this campaign, we stopped using this method, because everyone basically just rolled until they got something which they liked. This isn't bad, but it kind of defeats the purpose.

From that point on, we used 28 point buy, occasionally with 28 point buy +1 adjustment.

Recently, we decided we wanted to make a method that involves rolling, yet makes everyone in the party somewhat equal. Some people like rolling and combining point buy - while good in theory, it still leads to disparity.

Eventually, we came across this little gem

Flip method:

First, write 6 6's in a column.
Next, roll 6d6. Record each result in the column next to it. Do not worry about the order.
Next, take the dice you originally rolled. Flip the dice so the opposite side is now facing up. This is also the inverse of the number you originally rolled. Record this in a third column

Finally, take one number from each column, and assign them to ability scores. Reroll if either
a) you roll all of the same number
b) you roll three of one number and three of another.
c) through any combination of numbers, you cannot get a 16 or higher. (this doesn't mean you need to take the 16 though.)
d) if you feel like it.

When assigning numbers (to keep things more in line with adventure path balance), you cannot have more than a +8 total modifier before racials, or lower than a +7.

When you do this, you will find that almost any roll can get a +9, if you match numbers to make even pairs. Essentially, you lower your modifier by picking some stats to be odd. If you pick two stats to be odd, you will have a +8. If you pick 4 stats to be odd, you will have a +7. If you pick 6 stats to be odd (add up straight across), you will have a +6, and 13s in every ability.

So I ask you, how do you generate ability scores?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Seeing as I pretty much just play in PFS, I use 20-point-buy. :D


Seems like an awful lot of work.

With flipping the die for every six you have in column B there is a one in column C and vice versa. Each row will add up to 13--always. (If I understand your system correctly).

Wouldn't just be easier to say: write down six 13's for each +1 you add to that you have to subtract 1 from another stat.

Anyway, I just go for point buy. I never liked the fact that someone could get lucky on the first six dice rolls of a campaign (that might stretch for years) and their character will always have better abilities better than mine.


Some call me Tim wrote:

Seems like an awful lot of work.

With flipping the die for every six you have in column B there is a one in column C and vice versa. Each row will add up to 13--always. (If I understand your system correctly).

Wouldn't just be easier to say: write down six 13's for each +1 you add to that you have to subtract 1 from another stat.

Anyway, I just go for point buy. I never liked the fact that someone could get lucky on the first six dice rolls of a campaign (that might stretch for years) and their character will always have better abilities better than mine.

No, you get to pick any number from a column.

Example

C1 C2 C3
6 2 5
6 3 4
6 6 1
6 5 2
6 1 6
6 3 4

Time to add them up. Pick ANY number from Column 1, column 2 and them column three. When you picked a number, it is no longer usable.
Score 1: 6+6+5=17
Score 2: 6+2+4=12
Score 3: 6+3+6=15
Score 4: 6+1+1=8
Score 5: 6+3+4=13
Score 6: 6+2+5=13

Total Modifier = +7

Grand Lodge

There was a method I saw earlier that I liked, but wanted to change a little. Roll 24 d6, drop the 6 lowest, add them up, and make your stats from there. I like this for 2 reasons: I like rolling lots of dice at once, not only is it oddly pleasurable, but my dice also work better in large numbers. I've never figured out why, but the more dice I roll the higher my average is.


Tesserex wrote:

Time to add them up. Pick ANY number from Column 1, column 2 and them column three. When you picked a number, it is no longer usable.

Score 1: 6+6+5=17
Score 2: 6+2+4=12
Score 3: 6+3+6=15
Score 4: 6+1+1=8
Score 5: 6+3+4=13
Score 6: 6+2+5=13

Total Modifier = +7

This is really just a modified point buy:

(pick any score from 8 to 18)
18 5 points
17 4
16 3
15 2
14 1
13 0
12 -1
11 -2
10 -3
9 -4
8 -5

Score 1: 17 4 points
Score 2: 12 -1 point
Score 3: 15 2 points
Score 4: 8 -5 points
Score 5: 13 0 points
Score 6: 13 0 points
Total: 0 points


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Most recently it really depends.

I have 3 types of rolling.

Gritty Fantasy (Low Power)
15-32 Point Buy.. depending on group.

Normal
1d6+12 x6

High Fantasy (High Power)
1d6+12 x5, 1d8+12 x1

I always give my players an option when rolling stats.. They could use the method that I gave them, or they can roll 4d6 (Drop Lowest, Reroll 1's) with each member of the group rolling, and the group picking which set they would like to use.


How about:

roll 8d20's drop 2 reroll any 1's,2's,19's and 20's (or keep them but lose your racial modifiers...)

(a d20 roll has the same average as 3d6, which is probably why they chose 3d6 to begin with.)


Some call me Tim wrote:
Tesserex wrote:

Time to add them up. Pick ANY number from Column 1, column 2 and them column three. When you picked a number, it is no longer usable.

Score 1: 6+6+5=17
Score 2: 6+2+4=12
Score 3: 6+3+6=15
Score 4: 6+1+1=8
Score 5: 6+3+4=13
Score 6: 6+2+5=13

Total Modifier = +7

This is really just a modified point buy:

(pick any score from 8 to 18)
18 5 points
17 4
16 3
15 2
14 1
13 0
12 -1
11 -2
10 -3
9 -4
8 -5

Score 1: 17 4 points
Score 2: 12 -1 point
Score 3: 15 2 points
Score 4: 8 -5 points
Score 5: 13 0 points
Score 6: 13 0 points
Total: 0 points

Of course, since after all, no matter how you assign numbers, you always have 78 ability points. Sure, you can take all the fun out of it and just pick numbers, or you can have some fun and roll for once.


Roll 4d6. The result is how many points you have for point buy with standard costs.


I usually have my players roll 4d6 drop the lowest and write down their array. Then each player gets to pick any of the arrays rolled by anyone at the table.

This pretty much cancels out any bad luck with the rolls and gives the players options ( one might prefer the array with an 18 and a couple of low scores to build a wizard for example, while another might prefer the one with a 16 and three 14s to build a monk or a melee cleric)

Liberty's Edge

The new system I've been working on starts with a base of 18 then you divide that by PI and that gives you your standard number. Then you take your standard number and multiply it by the largest possible number you can achieve before racial modifiers. This number called the substandard number is then divided by PI and results in your new base number. Then I subtract 1 from the new base number for each ability score. Then because I'm mean I subtract and additional six points so my players aren't overpowered. This new number called the decimal point number. Then I round the decimal point number to the nearest one's place and subtract 1 to provide balance. The new number is the number of points allowed to purchase abilities using the standard costs.

It works wonders.


I have several ability score generation systems;

987654: you assign 9 dice to one stat, 8 to a second, 7 to a third, 6 to a fourth, 5 to a fifth, and 4 to the final stat. Roll that number of dice for that stat, take the highest three die rolls add them together for that stat.. these are your stats, now decide on a class.

Hereditary: this works just like 987654, except you roll two sets, one is your mother, the other your father. Take the average of the two sets for each stat, add 1d4, and subtract 1d4 (rolled separately).. these are your stats, now decide on a class.

Point buy: 15 point buy with +1d4 added to 5 stats and +1d6 added to 1 stat of your choice.

Now I must say, the group I play with likes higher stats all around. We are not really interested in playing "Your S@#~ty Life d20" with a bunch of 10's and 11's. Plus less character death, which I have yet to see result in positive things.

987654 is a sort of left over from first addtion unearthed arcana, where your class dictated how many dice you rolled for a stat. It can create some interesting characters. Chance becomes a huge part of what your character's stats add up too.

Hereditary is a half joke from the 2nd ed carnal knowledge guide, the averaging thing is how you are supposed to find out the final stats of your child. Oddly while chance is still a part of character creation, this creates balanced stats.

The point buy is to give some choice while still giving a chance for odd stats. Otherwise every character is built for the class. I created this for the people that wanted more control over there character's stats... the min-maxers. The only bad result being that no one buys 18, only 17 and adding 1d4 to the roll, the min-maxers love to do this.


Interesting ideas. I liked 987654 in particular. Nice high-powered characters. In real life, I'm full of 10s and 11s (and even a 9!). I'd rather not be that way in D&D.

I've always used point buy for a simple reason: balance. At the same time, I lament the lack of randomness and how easy it is for some players in my group to power-game it (AKA dump Charisma and some even do Wisdom).

I may consider a change and discuss it with the group when we start a new campaign (which should be a while from now).


Roll 3 stats and then plug them into point buy.

Random AND equal.

Grand Lodge

Power gamer stat roll up.....

10+ 1d8 for each stat

other wise i do roll 4d6 1s and 2s don't count and drop the lowest die


We use a bit-random point buy system:
- 10 + 1d3 pts for the 'gm-hates-u' campaigns
- 13 + 1d4 pts for standard campaigns (instead of 15)
- 17 + 1d6 pts for high difficult campaigns (instead of 20 pts)
- 23 + 1d8 pts for epic campaigns

Sometimes we used the 4d6 - (the lowest) per stat, but with a minor change: take the difference from the second highest total generated scores and your effective total, then you have this number as points to distribute to your scores (1-1 basis), not exceeding 18 before any racial modifiers.


15 point point buy.

When the group and I are feeling like rolling things up with a random aspect, we typically use 3d6 straight down the list - with a re-roll option if you roll two or more that are 7 or less or do not get at least one 13 or higher.

If my group voted for it unanimously, I would also allow 2d6+6, six times, arranged as desired.

I may take a look at switching to 20 points given that is the standard for Pathfinder Society play, which I did not previously even realize existed.


New thing I thought up after experimenting for a while.

Take a set of cards: 9 9 8 7 7 6 6 5 5 5 4 4. Put em in a stack, shuffle, draw six pairs, apply on a score of choice. I used two 8's and two 5's before, but that was too high powered. Switching one 8 for a 5 gives me nice scores.


Rolling up in a game, starting this coming weekend, 6 + 2D6 for each Stat. nteresting...


Eric The Pipe wrote:

Hereditary: this works just like 987654, except you roll two sets, one is your mother, the other your father. Take the average of the two sets for each stat, add 1d4, and subtract 1d4 (rolled separately).. these are your stats, now decide on a class.

This is great. I am going to advocate for this the next time I play in a one-shot.


I enjoyed 7d6 drop 3 highest

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Glutton wrote:
I enjoyed 7d6 drop 3 highest

So with a really good roll you could end up with abilities in the 19-24 range? That's an odd system, I have to say.

Minimum 4, average 14.

Granted, it's only about 0.046% of the time you end up with a 20 or higher. The number of 19s or higher is still only about 0.64%. So I guess it's a feasible system for the most part.

In fact, if my calculations are correct, you've got a worse chance of getting 18 or higher (1.1%) with this system than 4d6 drop lowest (which gives a 4.6% chance of an 18).

Curious.

Silver Crusade

We used to roll 3d6 six times for each ability score (keep the best of course), in order. That meant rolling first, then choosing race & class. Of course, the order then was STR, INT, WIS, DEX, CON, CHA.

I really would prefer to roll, but I also usually play PFS. I am part of a campaign, but that was also point buy.


In my group, we rolled 7d6, subtract the lowest 3 from 21.

Dark Archive

We do 28 point buy with Appearance as an extra stat.


15pts Point Buy, with a free +2 to one single stat that has not already got a modifier (so no doubling up your racial modifier, or buying off a racial penalty)


Always 4d6, drop lowest. Ever since AD&D. What can I say, we're a bunch of traditionalists at heart (which is why we dislike 4.0)

We do allow them to be arranged to taste, however. And in reality, some of our favorite characters have had relatively horrible stats.

Currently I'm playing a gnome wizard/cleric/mystic theurge in his last age bracket, with a Str of 5, Dex of 7, Con of 11, 22 Int, 16 Wis, and 20 Charisma...

And I and the other players are loving every minute of his (likely to be short) life.


DreamAtelier wrote:
Always 4d6, drop lowest. Ever since AD&D. What can I say, we're a bunch of traditionalists at heart

Pet peeve here, sorry if you feel singled out - I really do mean the following to apply to everyone that performs this same "oops" moment.

You are calling yourself a traditionalist at heart because you have stuck with an option for a long time - which is great, and is basically the definition of traditionalist.

...but on the other hand, the option you list was absolutely not the standard option for the edition you mention starting its use in.

This is the third time on this messageboard alone I have seen someone attribute something to an older edition as if it was the way things were during the appropriate era while mention house or optional rules that they used

Alright, mini-rant over... getting back on topic now.

I have officially switched over to using 20 point point buy as my group's default ability score generation method.

I have also decided that, because when we originally ran the campaign my players all rolled really well on their 3d6 straight down - one character managed nothing lower than a 14, a particular campaign of mine that will be converted over from 2nd edition will use the 25 point point buy option... meaning the characters will still have ridiculously good stats, but that one character will no longer happen to be better than everyone at everything.


Oh, no worries.

I'm well aware it was not the default option back then. But it was an option presented, and it's one we chose and have stuck with ever since, was more of what I was trying to say.


Generally, we run 20 or 25 point buys. Our GM for our recently started Kingmaker campaign decided he wanted to try something different this time around. He had all of his player's roll the standard 4d6 drop lowest method. He then took all the arrays we generated, pitched the one with the highest total mod, and allowed us to select from the 3 best of those arrays left. Made for an interesting tweak on char gen. Prevented us all from just taking the best one, and the next best 3 were all pretty evenly matched.


We used to do straight 4d6 drop lowest and assign, but at one point people had an issue, so we started the following:

Everyone roll as above.
Calculate that average total score of each character (usually around 70 - 80 points).
Every character who rolled BELOW the average was allowed to add points to his rolls up to the average.

This made people a little less jealous of the high rollers (since their scores were raised as a result), but kept the high rollers from feeling like they've been punished (for some reason point buys really p****d one or two people off).

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