RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hey, George! Welcome.
1) Different GMs do different things. If you follow the examples in the published products, you'd always keep the average roll, but I, at least, roll hit points for enemies, to avoid situations where one ogre goes down and the party realizes that Ogre 2 has 10 hp remaining.
2) Correct. You can get to the ogre by Acrobatics (the skill is Tumbling in D&D 3.5), or Improved Feint (to make him flat-footed) or by using a reach weapon, or by getting him to use up his attack of opportunity before you get there.
3) Typically, yes. Correspondingly, if you get beaten up by a monster and barely manage to defeat it, you get as much experience as if you one-shot the creature before it can attack you.
OK, new to PF. Instead of many, many questions I'll try to keep it at one ongoing thread.
Here are my first 3 questions:
1) When stocking your adventure, do you assign "Average Hit Points" per the Bestiary, or actually roll for hit points? My gut tells me I'd roll for tougher monsters and use average hp for numerous minions.
2) I'm trying to understand AOO. If you run up to an Ogre (10' reach) to attack him, does he automatically get an AOO? I'm asking because once you reach 2 squares away from him, you are now threatened by him. Then, when you close the gap into the final square (adjacent to him), you have left a threatened square. Doesn't this give him an AOO? So how does someone charge a monster with a 10' reach without being subjected to an AOO?
3) XP for traps/hazards: when is XP awarded for traps/hazards? I assume if you cleverly circumvent a trap, you get XP. But what if you fall into a pit trap, take damage, and scurry away afterwards with your pride and body wounded? Do you still get XP? What if you blindly trigger an arrow trap but the arrows whiz by and miss you? Do you get XP? What if you tumble down a mudslide and take 20 points of damage. XP?
Thanks
I'll try answer your questions as well as I can
Q1) monsters should get average for starting GMs, players should start (level 1 only) with full Hit Points, and every other level I go with the rule (you always get more than half the Hit die in hit points per level up)
Q2)Yes, AoO occur, to negate AoO from movement use 5-foot steps, potions of invisiblity, stealth, etc.
Q3)yes, you still get XP for traps and possibly for environmental hazards at GM disgression.
OK, new to PF.
Welcome! :)
1) When stocking your adventure, do you assign "Average Hit Points" per the Bestiary, or actually roll for hit points? My gut tells me I'd roll for tougher monsters and use average hp for numerous minions.
That's not really a rules question. Moer a matter of style. Both ways work. Taking average will be less work for the GM and rolling always has the random factor of producing either pushover monsters or ridiculous hard to kill ones. Personally, I like the average better. If you as GM have the impression that your bosses are killed too fast, nothing prevents you from raising their HP a little in the middle of combat. Don't overdo it, but a bit more resilience on theenemies part might make some encounters more memorable.
2) I'm trying to understand AOO. If you run up to an Ogre (10' reach) to attack him, does he automatically get an AOO? I'm asking because once you reach 2 squares away from him, you are now threatened by him. Then, when you close the gap into the final square (adjacent to him), you have left a threatened square. Doesn't this give him an AOO? So how does someone charge a monster with a 10' reach without being subjected to an AOO?
Yes, if you run all the way up to him until you are adjectant, you provoke an AoO. There are some ways around it: Teleportation right next to him, anything that provides cover or concealment (which both deny AoOs) or simply using a ranged or reach weapon yourself (which eleminates the need to get to close). You could also stop your movement 10 ft away and use a 5-ft-step in the next round to coer the rest of the distance without provoking.
3) XP for traps/hazards: when is XP awarded for traps/hazards? I assume if you cleverly circumvent a trap, you get XP. But what if you fall into a pit trap, take damage, and scurry away afterwards with your pride and body wounded? Do you still get XP? What if you blindly trigger an arrow trap but the arrows whiz by and miss you? Do you get XP? What if you tumble down a mudslide and take 20 points of damage. XP?
Not sure about this one, I must admit. Though I seem to remember that you always get the XP if you encouter a trap, no matter if it is triggered or disarmed. You only get no XP when you don't encounter the trap at all - by taking an alternative way to your goal or other means.
Hope that helps.
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1) When stocking your adventure, do you assign "Average Hit Points" per the Bestiary, or actually roll for hit points? My gut tells me I'd roll for tougher monsters and use average hp for numerous minions.
I dont know the official rule, lol, but personally, since my players take 1/2 the die +1, thats what the monsters get. D6=4, D8=5, etc. If the monster has class levels, it gets appropriate amounts of favored class hp (cause I have a large party). BBEGs sometimes get more HP just for the heck of it.
2) I'm trying to understand AOO. If you run up to an Ogre (10' reach) to attack him, does he automatically get an AOO? I'm asking because once you reach 2 squares away from him, you are now threatened by him. Then, when you close the gap into the final square (adjacent to him), you have left a threatened square. Doesn't this give him an AOO?
Yes, he does get an AoO.
So how does someone charge a monster with a 10' reach without being subjected to an AOO?
You wait until someone else has moved up to him, thereby provoking his AoO (which he assumingly will have taken instead of holding back), and then you move up. Assuming he doesnt have Combat Reflexes, then you wont provoke.
3) XP for traps/hazards: when is XP awarded for traps/hazards?
When you either set off, bypass, or disarm the trap you are awarded exp.
I assume if you cleverly circumvent a trap, you get XP. But what if you fall into a pit trap, take damage, and scurry away afterwards with your pride and body wounded? Do you still get XP?
You get exp.
What if you blindly trigger an arrow trap but the arrows whiz by and miss you? Do you get XP?
Yep.
What if you tumble down a mudslide and take 20 points of damage. XP?
Si, senor.
Thanks for the responses! Actually QUITE helpful. :)
Your welcome
That's correct, 150gp. If the party lacks a caster able to do remove curse, they must find such a caster. This could involve a journey of days, and unless they are already certain such a caster is there, it might be a wasted trip, requiring them to go somewhere else. Also, once they find the caster, he/she might not have the spell prepared and there's another day of waiting. Meanwhile, your hapless character is having to make saves daily to avoid additional strength loss, wisdom loss, or whatever the effect. And if it's contagious, he's probably feeling a little shunned around the campfire.
If you kick up the cost to 1500gp, and the party is low level poor, the afflicted one could drop below zero on the stat affected, which is never a good thing.
4- Yes, that is correct.. it may seem cheap, but it scales quickly with higher level spells, and you also have to remember that not every spell you are going to want is available, and casters you could hire still have a limit on spells per day.
Just because it costs 10g for someone to cast a 1st level spell for you, doesn't mean you can walk up to someone and be like "here's 100g cast this spell 10 times" or anything :P
So if you got a withering disease or terrible curse, a 5th level Cleric would only charge you 150gp to cure it? Is that correct?
Yup.
Keep in mind that the average peasant earns 1 silver piece per day. So a "mere" 150 gold to an adventurer is 1,500 silver or roughly FOUR YEARS of peasant salary. That's a lot of incense and prayer beads.
I also reward players for finding hidden doors and secret passages, usually with similar reward XP to disabling/bypassing a trap.
I should point out though that your example of holy water doesn't include the material component in it.
5) Please help me see if I understand how to modify a monster.
The appendices in the Bestiary are kind of confusing to me, but I muddled through them. Please take a look at this Shadow, modified from CR3 all the way down to CR1:
Shadow - unmodified:
CR3
HP 19 (3d8+6)
Medium Undead
Init +2; Darkvision 60’; Perception +8
AC15
HP19 (3d8+6)
Fort+3; Ref+3; Will+4
Incorporeal, channel resistance +2, undead traits
Fly 40’
Melee: Touch +4 (1d6 STR damage)
Create Spawn
Dex14, Int6, Wis12, Cha15
BAB+2; CMB+4; CMD17
Dodge, Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills: Fly+11; Perception+8; Stealth+8Shadow - modified:
CR1
HP9 (d8+5)
Small Undead
Init +3; Darkvision 60’; Perception +8
AC13
Fort+3; Ref+3; Will+4
Incorporeal, channel resistance +2, undead traits
Fly 40’
Melee: Touch +3 (1d4 STR damage)
Create Spawn
Dex16, Int6, Wis12, Cha15
BAB+1; CMB+3; CMD16
Dodge, Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills: Fly+13; Perception+8; Stealth+12The most critical changes:
*Changed Size to Small
*HP reduced (19 to 9)
*Initiative raised by +1 (due to DEX raise from being Small)
*AC reduced (15 to 13)
*Melee touch reduced from +5 to +3
*STR damage reduced from 1d6 to 1d4
*BAB, CMB, CMD all reduced by -1
*Fly increased by +2; Stealth increased by +4 (small size)So does the 2nd set of stats look reasonable for a CR1 Shadow?
Thanks
The power of the shadow is from it's incorprial subtype. no one but, casters could harm him, at first level and odds are he'll target the casters first.
And you did not change the saves, skill points, base atack bonus, CMB, CMD when you altered the Hit Dice.
Hit make the monster as if it were a player when toying with Hit Dice, for ANYTHING related to Hit Dice.
So did the post above help?
6) I don't understand the rules very well for how/when to roll perception when two opposing sides initially meet.
This one gets pretty complicated. Perception is based on distance, but how close the monsters get is based on perception.
a) Two orcs come out of the forest to suddenly attack the party as they're walking on the trail. Do I roll perception for ALL the participants, including the Orcs? Do I roll just for the party against the Orcs' stealth score?
Assuming the PC's aren't attempting to be quiet at all...
You decide how close the orcs want to try to sneak (say 30 feet, so they can charge) You roll stealth for each orc. Each player rolls a perception roll for their character. The perception roll has a penalty of 1 for every 10 feet (so -3 in this case) Anyone that beats the orcs sees the orcs and is not surprised. If
b) Two PC's enter a door in a dungeon and walk into a room. Suddenly 3 skeletons rise from the floor and attack. Do I roll party perception checks against Skeleton stealth?
Hmmm... that's a tough call. I don't think you'll find any rules on that. If it was people i would call for a bluff vs sense motive check.
c) Two cheetahs are approaching a party of PC's in a flat plains. I assume nobody needs to roll perception since there's a lot of distance for everyone to see each other. Same with a long dungeon room or corridor if someone is pretty far away. I think.
No surprise round at all. Roll initiative and cover the halfling in BBQ sauce.
Basically, I'm confused about WHO rolls perception - against whose stealth score.. and when!
It is confusing and it leaves it up to the DM to decide how to work it. The perception roll determines encounter distance, but the encounter difference is set by the perception roll. This is how I handle it.
Ambush: one side knows the other is coming.
The ambushers set a distance they would like the suckers to get before they strike. Say 40 feet.
Neither side is hiding.
Hello. We see you. Roll initiative.
Each Ambusher rolls stealth. Each sucker rolls perception. If the perception roll is higher, figure out the distance where the perception roll would beat the stealth roll. If that distance is greater than 40 feet, the ambush is blown.
Two stealthing parties.
Each member of group 1 rolls stealth and perception. Each member of group 2 rolls stealth and perception. Figure out the encounter distance and allow the highest perception-stealth to decide what to do.
6) I don't understand the rules very well for how/when to roll perception when two opposing sides initially meet.
See these examples:
a) Two orcs come out of the forest to suddenly attack the party as they're walking on the trail. Do I roll perception for ALL the participants, including the Orcs? Do I roll just for the party against the Orcs' stealth score?
b) Two PC's enter a door in a dungeon and walk into a room. Suddenly 3 skeletons rise from the floor and attack. Do I roll party perception checks against Skeleton stealth?
c) Two cheetahs are approaching a party of PC's in a flat plains. I assume nobody needs to roll perception since there's a lot of distance for everyone to see each other. Same with a long dungeon room or corridor if someone is pretty far away. I think.
Basically, I'm confused about WHO rolls perception - against whose stealth score.. and when!
A) Just the party's perception vs orc's stealth (if orcs did not use stealth then perception check is about DC 10-> DC 14)
B) Discribe the room with the skeletions laying down, when the PCs ENTER and CHECK (searching) the room then animate them and have a stealth check vs PC perception. (It'll give a few scares maybe).
C) Flat plains with or with out tall grass (minor detail, but game play changer)
Is the dungeon corridor completely lit (unlikely), if not they can't see into shadow or dark areas far away.
and note I believe for every 120ft, you take a -1 to perception checks.
They did a blog post on Poison to help folks figure it out.
HERE is the link.
with the orcs they are attacking first so they get a surprise round no perception checks needed
Oh hell no.
Perception is all 5 senses. There are any number of ways you could detect a group of orcs waiting to ambush you in the forest, even if for some reason the folliage was so thick that it completely blocked vision. Beech whips for example can do that, but moving through them makes a fair bit of noise.
Favorable conditions for the ambush might give the orcs a bonus, but a flat DM fiat of "you are surprised, mauaahahahaha!" 1) comes off as power gamey by the dm 2) completely negates the investment the players/characters made in the perception skill and its relevant enhancing class features, magic items, and feats. You need to get some really unusual circumstances for a flat out surprise round with no rolls, like silent ghosts popping out through the walls.
Damage Reduction "Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction."
DR Type: Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent
cold iron/silver: +3
adamantine*: +4
alignment-based: +5
* Note that this does not give the ability to ignore hardness, like an actual adamantine weapon does
9) Not sure exactly how Damage Reduction works. For example, a "Devil, Lemure" has a DR of "5/good or silver."
I understand that this means that anything besides "good" or "silver" weapons have to take a 5-point damage reduction against a lemure.
But does this mean that a 10th level wizard casting a Lightning Bolt would suffer a -5 damage reduction? What if he was hit with a +5 Greatsword? Does that also take a -5 damage reduction?
In short, does powerful magic still take the -5 DR (even though a fairly mundane item like a silver dagger would avoid the DR)?
DR X/(good or silver) removes X damage from all weapon attacks (no matter the enhancement bonus) that are not either made with silver or are good aligned (holy property, align weapon(good). etc)
if it was DR X/(good and silver) the weapon would do X less damage unless it was both silver and good (thru holy, or align weapon etc)
If it was DR X/Magic, a +1 or greater weapon gets through it
In regards to question #2 above, one thing that seems to have been overlooked is that when using the Charge action, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target of the charge, so you could (literally) charge up to the ogre and give him a whack. Of course, then you are at a -2 to your AC for his attack when it comes to his turn again.
In regards to question #2 above, one thing that seems to have been overlooked is that when using the Charge action, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target of the charge, so you could (literally) charge up to the ogre and give him a whack. Of course, then you are at a -2 to your AC for his attack when it comes to his turn again.Jeff - that's a great answer. I hadn't considered that. I'll remind my players (since we're all new to PF) a few times that they have that option if they're willing to sacrifice their AC.
It's funny - charge never seemed that great when I took a quick look at it. But now that I realize that benefit of bypassing the AOO, that makes it a more appealing option.
Just remember, it only fails to provoke the target of the charge; if there are other enemies between the PC and the Ogre, they still get their AOO as normal.
In regards to question #2 above, one thing that seems to have been overlooked is that when using the Charge action, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target of the charge, so you could (literally) charge up to the ogre and give him a whack. Of course, then you are at a -2 to your AC for his attack when it comes to his turn again.
Yep, but there's a bad thing about that. Not only are you at -2 AC, the ogre can then 5ft adjust away and still full attack against you at that -2 AC. So yeah, you close in one round, but you get torn up for it. Unfortunately, there's no good way to approach a reach opponent. No matter how you do it, it can hurt.
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In regards to question #2 above, one thing that seems to have been overlooked is that when using the Charge action, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target of the charge, so you could (literally) charge up to the ogre and give him a whack. Of course, then you are at a -2 to your AC for his attack when it comes to his turn again.
An older thread talks about the charging and attacks of opportunity, from what they discussed it seems that while the charge itself will not invoke AOO, if the target has reach, the charger's movement through the threatened space will incur an AOO.
If i understand the Pathfinder rules correctly, characters no longer get the 5' step and a full attack action. The 5' step would count as a move action. Please correct me if I'm wrongIn regards to question #2 above, one thing that seems to have been overlooked is that when using the Charge action, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target of the charge, so you could (literally) charge up to the ogre and give him a whack. Of course, then you are at a -2 to your AC for his attack when it comes to his turn again.Yep, but there's a bad thing about that. Not only are you at -2 AC, the ogre can then 5ft adjust away and still full attack against you at that -2 AC. So yeah, you close in one round, but you get torn up for it. Unfortunately, there's no good way to approach a reach opponent. No matter how you do it, it can hurt.
Movement in Combat: Generally, you can move your speed in a round and still do something (take a move action and a standard action).
If you do nothing but move (that is, if you use both of your actions in a round to move your speed), you can move double your speed.
If you spend the entire round running, you can move quadruple your speed (or three times your speed in heavy armor). If you do something that requires a full round, you can only take a 5-foot step.
A further clarification of Question 2 (which may or may not help): Movement in a Charge does provoke as normal. The chart on pg 183 is going to be your friend. While under full-round actions a Charge is listed as not provoking an AoO, read footnote 1.
Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity.
Movement during a charge does still indeed provoke an AoO from anyone you move out/through their threatened area. I believe what the others may be thinking of is the feat Spring Attack, which does not provoke an AoO from the target of your Spring Attack. Combat Maneuvers also function the same way once you have the 'Improved' feat of their tree (Improved Grapple, Improved Disarm, etc).
You're correct, if the skeletons are right out of the book. In some cases, the modules (and APs) will have slight variants of the creatures, and in some cases... the CRs not labeled correctly at all.
I'd recommend having a few "epic" and "easy" encounters to see how your party fairs in them. They might very well surprise you, or their class and ability combination work really well together that a CR of their APL is simply too easy for the group. Test the waters with your players for a few encounters of varying difficulty, just be careful not to go too far. One Owlbear might be enough for 4 2nd-level PCs, but even 2 Werewolves might be a real challenge for the same party at 4th level.
10) Question on CR. If you get in a fight with 6 Skeletons (CR 1/3 each), what is the CR for this brawl?
I'm asking because I see what appear to be 2 inconsistent sources:
a) Table 12-3 in the Core book states that 6 creatures = CR+5. So in this case, a CR of 1/3 +5 = CR of 4 (following the steps of 1/3, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4).
Yet the following from Crypt of the Everflame seems to indicate otherwise:
** spoiler omitted **
So what gives?
You only start adding to CRs like that when you're at CR 1. So, 3 skeletons = CR1. Then, 2 x CR 1 = CR3.
An easy way to see that is to look at the XP awards for them (and realize that the 135 for CR 1/3 is rounded up from 133 1/3). So, if you add the XP value of all 6 skeletons, you end up with 800 XP (well, 810, rounding) - which is CR 3.