Intensified Spell is worth considering which prolongs the usefulness of low-level spells such as Corrosive Touch/Shocking Grasp into later levels (so I'd take it as my 7th level feat when I can immediately make a good use of an Intensified Shocking Grasp to go with Spellstrike.
Combat Casting is *possibly* a good choice. I say possibly because its usefulness is apparent during the early levels, but then becomes mostly useless later on.
bump
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Our hexcrafter magus works well during fight. Sh'es not mini-maxed/munchkinized to death, but still is really good.
Elven Magus, Hexcrafter lvl 10, 20-points + appropriate gear :
14
20
12
20
10
8
Feats :
1. Weapon finesse
3. Combat Casting
5. Intensified Spell
5b. Weapon focus : Rapier
7. Extra Arcana
9. Toughness
Arcanas :
3 - Familiar (Cat)
6 - Hex
7 - Accursed Strike
9 - Empowered Magic
Hexes :
4 - Misfortune
6 - Cackle
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I'd like to dual wield with a wand, but that would negate Dervish Dance, so I've got to pour over the arcana and figure out what else would be interesting.
You don't dual wield a wand, you hold a wand.
Upside you can dervish dance with a wand being held by the other hand.
Downside you cannot quickdraw a wand.
-James
I believe he was referring to the Wand Wielder Arcana which lets you use a wand and your 1 handed weapon with spell combat, effectively dual wielding.
I agree that a wand should not be considered a weapon per se in determining whether it nullifies the benefits of DD or not. You do not strike with the wand and the only thing it does is it substitutes the spellcasting (which everyone accepts as NOT being a weapon) with the spell stored in the wand; no more, no less.
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I believe he was referring to the Wand Wielder Arcana which lets you use a wand and your 1 handed weapon with spell combat, effectively dual wielding.
It's still not a weapon, so it still doesn't violate dervish dance.
-James
I see the entire context now. It would not interfere. It is neither a weapon nor a shield.
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I agree that a wand should not be considered a weapon per se in determining whether it nullifies the benefits of DD or not. You do not strike with the wand and the only thing it does is it substitutes the spellcasting (which everyone accepts as NOT being a weapon) with the spell stored in the wand; no more, no less.
Actually, the RAW describes spell combat as "wielding" a spell in your off-hand. While this means you can't spell combat with Dervish Dance (but this is open to interpretation and a lot of people could and do it in their game, even if personnally I hate this feat and believe that the magus especially doesn't need it even with a dextrous build), the wand isn't a weapon nor a shield.
So, you could use a wand and Dervish Dance with the wand wielder arcana.
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I agree that a wand should not be considered a weapon per se in determining whether it nullifies the benefits of DD or not. You do not strike with the wand and the only thing it does is it substitutes the spellcasting (which everyone accepts as NOT being a weapon) with the spell stored in the wand; no more, no less.Actually, the RAW describes spell combat as "wielding" a spell in your off-hand. While this means you can't spell combat with Dervish Dance (but this is open to interpretation and a lot of people could and do it in their game, even if personnally I hate this feat and believe that the magus especially doesn't need it even with a dextrous build), the wand isn't a weapon nor a shield.
So, you could use a wand and Dervish Dance with the wand wielder arcana.
RAW also doesn't say that a spell is a weapon or a shield. You don't need a free hand to use dervish dance, you just mustn't hold a weapon or a shield in your off-hand. It's even totally viable to TWF with Dervish Dance as long as your second weapon is something like armor spikes or a barbazu beard.
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RAW also doesn't say that a spell is a weapon or a shield. You don't need a free hand to use dervish dance, you just mustn't hold a weapon or a shield in your off-hand. It's even totally viable to TWF with Dervish Dance as long as your second weapon is something like armor spikes or a barbazu beard.
I'm not gonna copy-paste again and again the same sentence from the RAW magus description about spell combat "like holding a spell in your off-hand", especially when in every case everyone has his own interpretation and the developers didn't do much to forbid anyone to do anything about it.
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I'm not gonna copy-paste again and again the same sentence from the RAW magus description about spell combat "like holding a spell in your off-hand", especially when in every case everyone has his own interpretation and the developers didn't do much to forbid anyone to do anything about it.
Than let me copypaste Dervish Dance instead:
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
Is a spell a weapon? No.
Is a spell a shield? No.It doesn't matter what the magus wields in his off-hand as long as it isn't a weapon or a shield.
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Is a spell a weapon? No.
Is a spell a shield? No.
It doesn't matter what the magus wields in his off-hand as long as it isn't a weapon or a shield.
"This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast."
"This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast."Do I really have to lose my respect and kid you to deserve not to feel kidded myself ?
People do whatever the want in their games. Dervish Dance needs a free hand, spell-combat is described as like wielding a spell as an off-hand weapon. If any dex-based magus in this world is a freakin' Dervish dancer, I don't care. Just don't imply the wording isn't ambiguous at all from the beginning, or the debate wouldn't exist in the first time. Your opinion isn't worth more or less than mine.
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Is a spell a weapon? No.
Is a spell a shield? No.
It doesn't matter what the magus wields in his off-hand as long as it isn't a weapon or a shield."This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast."
"This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast."Do I really have to lose my respect and kid you to deserve not to feel kidded myself ?
People do whatever the want in their games. Dervish Dance needs a free hand, spell-combat is described as like wielding a spell as an off-hand weapon. If any dex-based magus in this world is a freakin' Dervish dancer, I don't care. Just don't imply the wording isn't ambiguous at all from the beginning, or the debate wouldn't exist in the first time. Your opinion isn't worth more or less than mine.
You are certainly free to use whatever houserule you like, but as written, Dervish Dance does not require a free hand. It doesn't even require another hand. There is a certain difference between " You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand." and " You cannot use this feat if your off-hand isn't free".
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Dervish Dance does not require a "free hand". You can hold objects such as wands, potions etc. See the link below where James Jacob is quoted as saying such.
However, is a spell considered a weapon in the off-hand and as such does it invalidate Dervish Dance? Well, again, I asked James Jacob and this is pretty much a GM call.
Dervish Dance does not require a "free hand". You can hold objects such as wands, potions etc. See the link below where James Jacob is quoted as saying such.
However, is a spell considered a weapon in the off-hand and as such does it invalidate Dervish Dance. Well, again, I asked James Jacob and this is pretty much a GM call.
I'm one who believes that it does invalidate Dervish Dance and in my opinion its clear that whilst a spell is being held in the off hand then it is treated as a weapon...However it is a GM call and I am sure a whole pile of Magus players are going to categorically state that it isn't because it interferes with their Vanilla Scimitar Magus builds...
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I'm one who believes that it does invalidate Dervish Dance and in my opinion its clear that whilst a spell is being held in the off hand then it is treated as a weapon...However it is a GM call and I am sure a whole pile of Magus players are going to categorically state that it isn't because it interferes with their Vanilla Scimitar Magus builds...
Hell, accept DD with spell combat or not, finally it will always be a houserule since paizo made it a strict DM's call.
I think we can all agree that the rules on this are ambiguous at best, personally I would allow this combination in my games as I don't believe it to be in the least bit gamebreaking either way.
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Paizo did not make it a strict DM call. James Jacobs made it a DM call because he's not the person responsible for official rulings. The Paizo staff consists of several talented people with different areas of expertise. James Jacobs is probably the staff member most active on this board, but he's not the one making the rules.
girls girls please calm down we have one feat i like more than dd and it adds so much more flavor and a one class dip in swashbuckler is a good choice for any magus to make dd look lame.
slashing grace Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
girls girls please calm down we have one feat i like more than dd and it adds so much more flavor and a one class dip in swashbuckler is a good choice for any magus to make dd look lame.
slashing grace Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
nice reply to a 4 year old post :P
I like Exotic Weapon Proficiency Bastard Sword + Vital Strike with this character. I wouldn't advocate VS builds but I think there's some solid action economy and bonuses with Enlarge Person that makes it viable. Along with Intensified (magical lineage) shocking grasps.
I like Exotic Weapon Proficiency Bastard Sword + Vital Strike with this character. I wouldn't advocate VS builds but I think there's some solid action economy and bonuses with Enlarge Person that makes it viable. Along with Intensified (magical lineage) shocking grasps.Can't combine Vital Strike with Spell Combat, so the action economy is actually not very good by Magus standards.
No, but it does combine with Spell Recall and potentially Spellstrike (depending the casting time of the spell). Vital Strike is not a full round action, only an attack action (i.e standard action). So yes, it is useful. Also a significant portion of their spelllist is geared towards buffing them and increasing their size. Anything increasing their stats and size has a compound effect raising the viability of Vital Strike. You may not be using it every round as you would Power Attack but do not underestimate it's utility.
Okay - on a dex based magus, I know I've said this like a bajillion times, but I'll stand by it..
I'd take weapon finesse, weapon focus rapier (or if you like, take kensai archetype, but may as well just use rapier) - take flambouyant arcana to unlock swashbuckler deeds, then take the extra arcana feat, to get the arcane deed arcana: pick precise strike. with that alone, so long as you have 1 arcane pool, you can do your magus level in damage now. Take fencing grace, or slashing grace if you took kensai/dueling sword/? or whatever. You can save a some spell slots by using chill touch/elemental touch, whose extra uses can be used in spellstrikes - especially useful for a kensai, as you'll cast like 2 shocking grasps early on, and you're spent.
take intensified spell, and the empowered arcana (it's only once a day, but assuming you use conservative spells like chill touch and elemental touch to save spells, having that one really beefy shocking grasp to beat down a boss is handy. levl 10 intensified empowered shocking grasp: 15d6 damage, + all your weapon stuffs. Crits are funny.)
Take weapon specialization when possible, then improved crits.
It's a martial heavy build, true, but all of that really adds up to some huge damage bursts. Throw in Arcane strike and your ~20 dex magus, at level 10, - assuming you've got a +2 weapon by then - like (wpn damage) +5(enchant from arcane pool) +5 dexterity +10 precise strike +2 weapon specializtion. That's dX + 22 damage, + spellstrikes, and you can spend an arcane pool on precise strike when you feel like it for a further +10 damage. add in arcane strike if ya wanna.
Make sure you get blade dash and use it- really good for action economy- leap away from one opponent with a spell combat blade dash, and just move wherever you like, never losing your full attack from movement. Just port right next to any clustered enemies. This build can keep up with str builds in damage output, especially early on; Don't forget, having that arcane pool will allow you to blow through damage resistances, while purely mundane fighters and such will have to wait until they can afford a weapon that can do the same (not likely, as at level 10 you can bypass just about whatever. +2 sword, by level 9, +3 from pool. nobody else can rock a +5 weapon at level 9.)
With kensai, you also out-initiative most str build meleers, have more AoO's, and if you really want to be a nuisance, you can round out your feats by taking extend spells, and using it with long arm and/or line in the sand (against large groups of charging weaklings it's really funny. The human weed-whacker) or you can take combat casting (which I prefer at level 1, just 'cause you can't afford to lose them spells).
Just... no. Vital strike is a waste. It'll give you something like +d6/d8 maaaaaybe d10 for one attack that is most likely not even a spellstrike. It's a consolation price for martials. Oh poor little martial you had to move and now can't do 80% of your damage? Here, have this extra 5-15 damage! Mommy paizo will make it all better (please ignore the vital striking hippo druid making better use of this feat than a fighter or barbarian ever could).
For a magus, the extra feat is better spent on just about anything you can pick up with extra arcana.
Get a d10 weapon, enlarge person makes it 2d8, impact weapon (with enlarge person) makes it 3d8, vital strike is 6d8, improved vital strike is 9d8, power attack and furious focus is free bonus damage,..
It can work.
Just... no. Vital strike is a waste. It'll give you something like +d6/d8 maaaaaybe d10 for one attack that is most likely not even a spellstrike. It's a consolation price for martials. Oh poor little martial you had to move and now can't do 80% of your damage? Here, have this extra 5-15 damage! Mommy paizo will make it all better (please ignore the vital striking hippo druid making better use of this feat than a fighter or barbarian ever could).
For a magus, the extra feat is better spent on just about anything you can pick up with extra arcana.
Get a d10 weapon, enlarge person makes it 2d8, impact weapon (with enlarge person) makes it 3d8, vital strike is 6d8, improved vital strike is 9d8, power attack and furious focus is free bonus damage,..
It can work.
One hit wonder build. But hey, why not. Everyone builds magus around the spell combat, but sometimes you just want a ridiculous one shot too.
Late game, quicken spell metafeat +vital strike, should be able to spellstrike like that I assume. (or arcana, to stack it with some horrible WTF empowered touch spell) Swift action cast, standard action hulk smash. You really could just invisibly rock up all huge and smash something with one giant hit. Bad thing (or good thing, maybe) is you'll miss out on all the patronizing villain speeches. Before they open their mouth, they take 200 damage from your vitalstrike/buffed weapon/other silly bonuses.
Edit: had to laugh at that imagery - enemies camping around a fire, and all they hear is the rumbling, heavy stomps of something approaching. Before they get a chance to figure out what's happening, a giant f*'n dude with a flaming weapon appears -in mid swing- out of nowhere, and smites their leader in one hit. -- on a side note, don't forget you can get a constant effect lead blades enchantment on your weapon for very cheap - and it won't count towards the base enchant for your arcana pool.