What ideas would you like to see Paizo turn into an AP?
I'd like to see something like the merchant houses in the 2e Dark Sun setting. Basically a combination of a Sandbox and an evocative setting.
Something set on the Planes that goes from 1-20+ and ends with a god hitting the floor.
Hum guns and steampunk?
Something that involves sending a good portion of th Cheliaxian royal navy to the bottom, hopefully involving becoming a pirate lord.
What ideas would you like to see Paizo turn into an AP?
I'd like to see something like the merchant houses in the 2e Dark Sun setting. Basically a combination of a Sandbox and an evocative setting.
Something set on the Planes that goes from 1-20+ and ends with a god hitting the floor.
Hum guns and steampunk?
Something that involves sending a good portion of th Cheliaxian royal navy to the bottom, hopefully involving becoming a pirate lord.
A Planar campaign would be brilliant. In terms of Golarion, I really like Irrisen/Land of the Linnorm Kings and this area would make a great AP.
I'd like to see an AP that starts on Golarion and ends on outer planes. A hell would be nice for example.
First two adventures would involve players in Cheliax discovering some sort of a mistery, fighting lackeys and being kept in dark for the most part with slivers of information about their true enemy.
Third and Fourth adventure would guide players into discovering who their enemies are and defeating the devil's main servants on Golarion.
And fifth and last adventure would involve travelling to Hell, with focus on interaction with devils and not just combat, and in the end slaying a powerful Devil who was behind the scheming in Cheliax.
1) Underdark campaign like Night Below and/or the classic GDQ series.
2) Waterborne/Undersea campaign.
3) Planar campaign- starting and ending in the outer planes.
I'd be interested in a campaign where you are meant to play an evil character. That would really break the mold I think!
Creative Director
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Although this sounds very interesting, and something I would love to play, just reading the Carrion Crown boards makes me think it would never happen. Playing something like a Paladin would be good for the smacking Devils around part, but once you got to Hell, I think the whole dealing with devils (which would make it more unique then the first part) would fizzle into an RP nightmare for some playing styles.
The chances of us doing an AP at some point where you just Can Not Play A Paladin are actually quite high.
No other class cramps storyline possibilities quite as much as the paladin, after all. And we've already got 9 APs finished or being worked on that work fine with paladins. But I'd be lying outright if I said I wasn't itching to do a grittier AP that just wouldn't be appropriate for paladins.
On a side note, I'm also rather intrigued by the concept of doing an AP that makes even GREATER demands on the players—rather than saying "You can play any character but a paladin," I'm thinking something like "Every PC has to be an elf" or "Every PC has to be a cleric" and designing an AP with that theme in mind. Of course... the fear is that everyone who hates playing elves or hates playing clerics would then not buy that AP, and losing a big swath of subscribers is not something we want to court. I suspect that the potential loss of subscriptions from people who are irked by not being able to have paladins in a 6-month AP would not be completely insignificant, but I also suspect that the subscription UPSWING by those who would love to see such an AP would balance it out. It's a tricksy thing to do, though, that's for sure.
I'm pretty tired of being "held hostage" by the "This adventure must be playable by paladins!" concept, to tell the truth. Especially since I believe that a paladin who DOESN'T get hit with a crisis where what's good for the group or the world but bad for his paladinhood is missing out on the core, fundamental element of playing a paladin—facing temptation.
On a side note, I'm also rather intrigued by the concept of doing an AP that makes even GREATER demands on the players—rather than saying "You can play any character but a paladin," I'm thinking something like "Every PC has to be an elf" or "Every PC has to be a cleric" and designing an AP with that theme in mind. Of course... the fear is that everyone who hates playing elves or hates playing clerics would then not buy that AP, and losing a big swath of subscribers is not something we want to court. I suspect that the potential loss of subscriptions from people who are irked by not being able to have paladins in a 6-month AP would not be completely insignificant, but I also suspect that the subscription UPSWING by those who would love to see such an AP would balance it out. It's a tricksy thing to do, though, that's for sure.
Why not go the route of a module series??? It may be far easier to achieve (2-3 adventure compare to 6) and it won't impact much on the AP subscribers, which I believe are the most numerous of all subscribers.
I'd be interested in a campaign where you are meant to play an evil character. That would really break the mold I think!
+1
The chances of us doing an AP at some point where you just Can Not Play A Paladin are actually quite high. No other class cramps storyline possibilities quite as much as the paladin, after all.
This. A thousand times this.
The chances of us doing an AP at some point where you just Can Not Play A Paladin are actually quite high.On a side note, I'm also rather intrigued by the concept of doing an AP that makes even GREATER demands on the players—rather than saying "You can play any character but a paladin," I'm thinking something like "Every PC has to be an elf" or "Every PC has to be a cleric" and designing an AP with that theme in mind.
Love these ideas, I'd be very interested if an AP like this ever got published!
I am all for grittier adventures with tons of moral gray area, that's the way I end up running them anyway so if I had to do less conversion that would be great. So +1 for that concept.
I also give a hearty +1 to a planar themed AP. I was a huge fan of Planescape back in the day and I feel like the planes have really been lacking in adventures since then. I ran some planar adventures throughout my 3.5 time and they are always a hit. Right now I'm converting a couple old school Planescape adventures to 3.x so I can run them as a followup to Red Hand of Doom.
I wait for a whole AP to be released before I purchase it, so I'm excited to check out Carrion Crown and Jade Regent. The ideas and unique flavor of each intrigues me.
I like the idea of a darker, more story driven AP. I'd be interested in gritty and dark campaign with aberrations, something Lovecraftian. I really like dark and alien type themes and really feel like that kind of AP could be quite awesome.
Mostly, I like seeing variety in the APs. I know that my tastes aren't the only ones out there, so the more variety I see the more I know that one will come along that is exactly what I like or will really capture my interest. If they all start to be the same core ideas and themes then they get stale and boring very quickly and that is something I REALLY don't want to see happen.
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To weigh in on the topic of paladins, I feel they can be VERY restrictive to a game, but that doesn't mean it should effect the design process. Again, I enjoy that moral gray area and like to see what the players do with it.
I have had 2 relatively recent experiences with paladin players that added a really interesting take on the game. When I ran Shackled City I had a couple of thunder twin elves (I let them take it as non-dwarves because it was cool) one was a paladin and the other was a NE rogue. The paladin managed to hold on to her morality through some really trying situations including the death of Sir Alek (whom she had married) and the outright villainous activities of her sister.
In my current game my homebrew world has changed dramatically and is now a very gritty and morally ambiguous place. The same player who was the evil elf before decided to play a tiefling paladin this time around. The paladin was faced with the post-apocalyptic violence and morally corrupting influences of the world and finally succumbed to it, falling from the grace of her god. She is now a fallen paladin stalking the wasteland like a vicious vigilante.
I felt these campaigns have been enhanced by the inclusion of a paladin. The last time I played I decided to go with a paladin/sorcerer/eldrich knight build that was WAY different than my normal characters and it was lots of fun. Paladins are only limiting if you feel to constrained by them. Let's face it, the worlds of heroic fantasy are violent and evil places that will constantly test a paladin's devotion to their faith.
Speaking of restricted games. How about rogue oriented AP. Not that everyone has to play a rogue but would make character capable of playing in game like that. Suggested builds could be given in the Players Guide. Paladins would definitely be out in game like this as well I'd think Monks would too due to their lawful nature.
I'm thinking of city somewhere with ruling nobility that is full of politics and backstabbing. There would be two thieves guilds in turf war manipulating many gangs. Corrupt religious leaders battling for control of single religion in the city. The players would start off as part of a faction. Some could be part the guild, another part of noble affiliated with that guild, religious order affiliated with that guild or gang supported by that guild. I'm thinking a sand boxed nature with events or opportunities available on time progression. The story would be about who rules. Is the nobility, religion, or is a puppet government controlled by the guilds. The players would determine which way things go and each path would have it's own difficulties to over come.
- a gazillion....
I'm a AP Charter Subscriber, which means I subscribed at the start. This would cause me to cancel my subscription and lose the Charter tag.
-- david
Papa.DRB
I'd be interested in a campaign where you are meant to play an evil character. That would really break the mold I think!+1
An interplanetary jaunt would be cool.
Perhaps a swashbuckling, high seas adventure combining elements from the best of the genre (pirates, Sinbad the Sailor, beasties from the deeps, lost islands with isolated/lost cultures and giant man-eating creatures, etc, etc.) This one would be good because you could span a good chunk of the Inner Sea with this one, assuming that travel time from point A to Z and all points in-between take place between adventures.
No other class cramps storyline possibilities quite as much as the paladin, after all.... Especially since I believe that a paladin who DOESN'T get hit with a crisis where what's good for the group or the world but bad for his paladinhood is missing out on the core, fundamental element of playing a paladin—facing...
Paladin should have been a Prestige Class of cleric to begin with.
But since that's not going to happen at this point, if you come up with an Adventure Path that would probably be next to impossible with a paladin in the party, perhaps you could include a section in the player's guide for that adventure path that discusses the problems with paladins and proposes some other personalities and/or roleplaying methods for paladins. Allow them to be neutral and chaotic, for one thing.
Speaking of restricted games. How about rogue oriented AP.
This is what our group was hoping to find with the Council of Thieves adventure path. :(
I would love to see adventure paths in the following locations:
• At sea -- like the Smuggler's Shiv, but entirely based around piracy, exploration, and travel. Especially if it also took us to a polynesian-like area.
• Osirion. Legacy of Fire was okay, but something dealing with Pharoahs and buried tombs would be awesome. Characters starting off as gladiators?
• Absalom. A murder mystery at a mage school?
• Lands of the Linnorm Kings, and the arctic. Something where serious cold was a constant issue, and dungeons are carved out of glaciers.
• The WorldWound.
• A MASSIVE dwarfhold.
Also, something where the backstory has terrestrial origins, not demons, devils, and other outsiders. How about a demilich or dracolich?
I want to see something in the Land of the Linnorms kings that involves a frost giant were-mammoth at some point.
Numeria! Numeria! Numeria! I'd really like to see a conan-esque sword and sorcery game that takes place here. I'm dying to know more about the technic league, and the effects of drinking space-gasoline.
Anything that sees the party venturing to Orv by the end of the game (not sure if this has happened already - I skipped Second Darkness).
This might be a bit beyond the scope of an AP, but I'd love to see something that deals with the political strife in the inner sea. Maybe Qadira and Taldor go to war again, or the party has to deal with the expansionist machinations of Molthune? It seems like there's a lot going on in southern Avistan, but that it's frequently passed over in APs. I really want to see something that spans more than one geographic region in Golarion.
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I would love to see adventure paths in the following locations:
• At sea -- like the Smuggler's Shiv, but entirely based around piracy, exploration, and travel. Especially if it also took us to a polynesian-like area.
• Osirion. Legacy of Fire was okay, but something dealing with Pharoahs and buried tombs would be awesome. Characters starting off as gladiators?
• Absalom. A murder mystery at a mage school?
• Lands of the Linnorm Kings, and the arctic. Something where serious cold was a constant issue, and dungeons are carved out of glaciers.
• The WorldWound.
• A MASSIVE dwarfhold.Also, something where the backstory has terrestrial origins, not demons, devils, and other outsiders. How about a demilich or dracolich?
I would love to see a Polynesian-like area as well, but I think that we are in the minority. Despite it being rich in cultural legends, the general public just isn't interested, as far as I have seen.
That being said, a PF Module based on perhaps being shipwrecked in such an area, would be a good first step.
Gritty, dark thieves guild with political intrigue. Maybe just story arc of 3-4 modules.
I'd love to see an AP whose climax was nothing less than the Test of the Starstone.
- a gazillion....
I'm a AP Charter Subscriber, which means I subscribed at the start. This would cause me to cancel my subscription and lose the Charter tag.
-- david
Papa.DRBI'd be interested in a campaign where you are meant to play an evil character. That would really break the mold I think!+1
What do you have against evil campaigns? Personally they've been among my more memorable roleplaying experiences over the past 31 years. . .
I think Irrisen/Land of the Linnorm Kings would be an excellent setting for one. Next homebrew campaign I run will probably be this. . .
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Love these ideas, I'd be very interested if an AP like this ever got published!
The chances of us doing an AP at some point where you just Can Not Play A Paladin are actually quite high.On a side note, I'm also rather intrigued by the concept of doing an AP that makes even GREATER demands on the players—rather than saying "You can play any character but a paladin," I'm thinking something like "Every PC has to be an elf" or "Every PC has to be a cleric" and designing an AP with that theme in mind.
Me too! I have good experiences with restricted character creation options and heavily-themed campaigns; in Menzoberranzan we had several drow parties, and we also played a very fun wizard's guild campaign in which you had to play an arcane spellcaster. Not only can it work, but it's also refreshing to play in a themed campaign for a change.
What I'd also like to see is APs taking place in Belkzen/Numeria/Worldwound. Galt might be fun, too! :)
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What do you have against evil campaigns? Personally they've been among my more memorable roleplaying experiences over the past 31 years. . .- a gazillion....
I'm a AP Charter Subscriber, which means I subscribed at the start. This would cause me to cancel my subscription and lose the Charter tag.
-- david
Papa.DRBI'd be interested in a campaign where you are meant to play an evil character. That would really break the mold I think!+1
Har har! I think Papa is evil-aligned himself, like me. I'm a Chelaxian Lawful Evil Half-fiend/Half-dwarf (and a Chosen of Asmodeus) in real life, so when I get to roleplay, I prefer good characters. ;P
what I would love to see and buy:
- Vikings
- Pirates
- Lastwall vs orcs
personally i am not interested in /will not buy:
- Higher level
- evil
- everything to dark and gritty
I'm glad that Jade Regent is coming - that will fill a niche desire for me personally :)
I do *not* want to see an Evil AP (though I wouldn't cancel for it) - but I'm fine with a thievery / organized crime syndicate AP. I'm sure there is a market for an Evil Module, so if necessary there is room to test the waters that way.
I'm also keen to see a novel take on AP restrictions. I can imagine, for example, an all-dwarf-no-arcane AP.
• At sea -- like the Smuggler's Shiv, but entirely based around piracy, exploration, and travel. Especially if it also took us to a polynesian-like area.
I would love to see a Polynesian-like area as well, but I think that we are in the minority. Despite it being rich in cultural legends, the general public just isn't interested, as far as I have seen.
That being said, a PF Module based on perhaps being shipwrecked in such an area, would be a good first step.
I'd disagree about the amount of interest. Not to reopen old wounds by mentioning him, but Nick Logue's Razor Coast campaign setting featured Pele as one of the deities, and Nick himself is a fan of the Hawaiian mythos and probably would have delivered a lot of that flavor if the product had ever come to fruition. Judging from the amount of outrage at its demise, there is a fair amount of interest out there.
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I'd disagree about the amount of interest. Not to reopen old wounds by mentioning him, but Nick Logue's Razor Coast campaign setting featured Pele as one of the deities, and Nick himself is a fan of the Hawaiian mythos and probably would have delivered a lot of that flavor if the product had ever come to fruition. Judging from the amount of outrage at its demise, there is a fair amount of interest out there.
• At sea -- like the Smuggler's Shiv, but entirely based around piracy, exploration, and travel. Especially if it also took us to a polynesian-like area.
I would love to see a Polynesian-like area as well, but I think that we are in the minority. Despite it being rich in cultural legends, the general public just isn't interested, as far as I have seen.
That being said, a PF Module based on perhaps being shipwrecked in such an area, would be a good first step.
Really? Cool! I had never known about that... Very cool... So what happened to that Razor Coast Campaign Setting? Any particular reason that it was never produced?
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I'm thinking something like "Every PC has to be an elf" or "Every PC has to be a cleric" and designing an AP with that theme in mind.
How about everyone plays an elf except one person has to play a dwarf. I am kidding but only partially. I love the idea of restrictions and randomness in roleplaying. Not all of the time but sometimes having to play a certain race or class brings out great roleplay. The same thing can be said of the old role for abilities and hit points method of character creation. Some of my favortie characters were characters I was "forced" to make because of the way its ability scores turned out.
So try out the all Bard AP and let the music flow.
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Gritty, dark thieves guild with political intrigue. Maybe just story arc of 3-4 modules.
I love the idea of mini AP's. An adventure arc that last 3 adventures instead of 6. Maybe it is just low level or maybe it starts at mid level and progresses from there or maybe it is just high level. As someone who only gets to game once or twice a month if I'm lucky (kids, spouses, work, etc. have taken their toll)it would be nice to have something that could be completed in less than a year.
Yes I know there are 1 shot mods and PFS which we plan on switching to as a break from the big AP's as soon as we are finished with 2nd Darkness but there is just something about the continuity of longer story lines which remains too fun to pass up. So mini AP's I think provide some great oppotunities for play and design.
I think that arctic and Lovecraftian would be a great match (still have fond memories of Deep Freeze), with or without Vikings.
An Underdark AP would be interesting too.
What I'm not crazy about is a restricted AP (all elf, all cleric or something like that).
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I'm thinking something like "Every PC has to be an elf" or "Every PC has to be a cleric" and designing an AP with that theme in mind.
I think there would be a lot of potential in a race centered AP.
Dwarf and Elf life tend to lend to this type of AP, and I can see a lot of interesting ways to go with it.
But I think this may be better suited to a module arc than a full AP.
A full AP is more or less a 6 month minimum commitment to a quest. I am not sure if there is enough interest to warrant a single class quest of that kind. I would like it, personally. I can see some of my players balking at that kind of commitment with such specific limitations for player creation.
What I would personally like to see for APs in the future.
- An Arcadia quest (sea voyage into landfall, into dinosaurs, into hidden lost civilization, etc...)
- An Azlant quest (tons of possibilities here)
- Worldwound crusade adventure.
- A Numeria alien tech into interplanetary adventure.
- Alkenstar starting into preventing an escalating war between Nex and Geb (casters stink in the beginning, but are central later just like old times...)
- More runelords emerge...particularly Xanderghul rising in a viking themed AP...I have many personal ideas for this...
Those are off the top of my head. Golarion is made of potential.
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Creative Director
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I think it's pretty clear that Paizo won't be doing an evil AP any time soon, if ever. APs are their flagship product, and are also a pretty significant income stream. So they're not going to do an AP that would only appeal to a narrow minority of buyers. (Similarly, while we might see APs that showcase a particular race, we're never going to see one that's all-elf, all-dwarf, etc.)That still leaves plenty of room.
-- The Worldwound is crying out for it, and is sure to happen sooner or later.
-- Personally, I'd like to see a broadly African-themed adventure down in the Mwangi. I suspect that's right at the edge of what Paizo would be willing to try.Doug M.
True... but a gritty campaign that would be inappropriate for paladins but would be evil-PC friendly (while not being expressly created for evil PCs) would NOT, I don't think, appeal to only a narrow minority. I actually think that such an AP would appeal to a lot of folks, and the overall direction of this thread (and others) is only confirming that suspicion.
1. Planar AP, to expand upon the "Great Beyond", and to make use of the many new outsiders in Bestiary 2. It would be nice if the AP would go planar right in the first module; this may be challenging design-wise, but who else if not paizo could do it?
2. A Mega-Dungeon AP. There was a discussion here on the boards some time ago. Would be a challenge to make such an AP interesting throughout 6 modules, but who else if not paizo could do it?
I think a dwarf AP would be pretty fun.
Had an elf one with Second Darkness, and I know nothing about Golarion Dwarves just because there hasn't been an AP to make me interested. Give me a dwarf path!
Really? Cool! I had never known about that... Very cool... So what happened to that Razor Coast Campaign Setting? Any particular reason that it was never produced?
Urgh, I really don't want to open that can of worms in this thread. Just do a search of either Nick Logue, Sinister Adventures, or Razor Coast in the forums and you'll find plenty on it. I honestly don't know the real reason it never went to press.
With all the alien invasion pics and series around, I'm surprised no one has mentioned invasions from Golarions sister worlds, and adventures as we take the fight back to them! I want to beat on some 4 armed green men of Barsoom!
==Aelryinth
No other class cramps storyline possibilities quite as much as the paladin, after all. And we've already got 9 APs finished or being worked on that work fine with paladins. But I'd be lying outright if I said I wasn't itching to do a grittier AP that just wouldn't be appropriate for paladins.
I think this really comes across, and I think most of the people I play with would disagree that all the existing APs work fine with paladins.
I mean, yes, in Pathfinder the paladin code is more lax than ever in terms of typical AP sticking points like working with evil for a greater good, but the subset of people I game or have gamed with who like to play paladins are also the kind of people who don't want to play the kind of paladins who need to "get dirty" and choose between the lesser of two evils all that much.
Granted, I've only read or played about half the APs at this point, but either actually needing to team up with bad people or enjoying significant advantages if you're willing to team up with bad people seems like a pretty consistent theme.
I'd be all about a clear 'No paladins' AP, but I'd also be all about one in which you could be a less morally ambiguous paladin and not either derail the whole AP or at least be punished for it.
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If Ultimate Combat gives up naval and mass combat rules:
Naval AP. I want ship to ship combat. Surviving a Hurricane. Diving deep into a Gillman empire (ie. fighting Atlantis).
The books have all these water based options so far.
Lets get the most out of them.
And we need more Pirate love anyway!
Wouldn't you smile to see on the cover a AP of a Dread Pirate's ship...as a character!
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True... but a gritty campaign that would be inappropriate for paladins but would be evil-PC friendly (while not being expressly created for evil PCs) would NOT, I don't think, appeal to only a narrow minority. I actually think that such an AP would appeal to a lot of folks, and the overall direction of this thread (and others) is only confirming that suspicion.
I think it's pretty clear that Paizo won't be doing an evil AP any time soon, if ever. APs are their flagship product, and are also a pretty significant income stream. So they're not going to do an AP that would only appeal to a narrow minority of buyers. (Similarly, while we might see APs that showcase a particular race, we're never going to see one that's all-elf, all-dwarf, etc.)That still leaves plenty of room.
-- The Worldwound is crying out for it, and is sure to happen sooner or later.
-- Personally, I'd like to see a broadly African-themed adventure down in the Mwangi. I suspect that's right at the edge of what Paizo would be willing to try.Doug M.
+1 to "Paladins stay outside" APs. I'd love a campaign which would fit in with a bunch of antihero scoundrel PCs.
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Urgh, I really don't want to open that can of worms in this thread. Just do a search of either Nick Logue, Sinister Adventures, or Razor Coast in the forums and you'll find plenty on it. I honestly don't know the real reason it never went to press.
Really? Cool! I had never known about that... Very cool... So what happened to that Razor Coast Campaign Setting? Any particular reason that it was never produced?
Saw the April Fools blogs and stuff, honestly can't pick out what is real and what is not. Makes me sad though.