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Telemarketer: goes into a long spiel about getting my student loans forgiven.
Captain Yesterday: You must have a wrong number, I've never been to college.
Telemarketer: Oh, well let's get you signed up then!
She then starts another long spiel, but I hang up.
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I was just catching up on the last 80+ something posts. It needed to be said.
[disgusted]Math fanatics.[/disgusted]
Thanks! :D
EDIT (for clarity): responding to Tac's reply to Rantraptor
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Rage!! Fury!! Frenzy!!
be my animal companion in the battle against math!!!
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[disgusted]Math fanatics.[/disgusted]Just ignore them.
more flirting time with lisamarlene for me, then.
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I just thought of a great new thread title
What do you do when paladins fall...in love!
What do you do when paladins fall in love with adamantine grapplin' succubi?
You realise you've been filming Limey's Sexey Dreamz again, that's what.
Looks sternly at Limey.
You know the rules.
I know lots of rules.
My favourite is the one that traps Angry Freehold in an eternal Firefly Facebook fan group where the members recite logarithmic tables in brown coats and it is forever summertime.
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Don't forget Bendis is tragically shot while surrendering every night.
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OK, on the one hand I primarily volunteer because I enjoy it. Nothing makes you feel young like hanging out with teenagers and ordering them around. :-P
On the other hand, the "perks" are pretty amazing. The head of the choir parents' group also works in the city planning office, so all construction plans go through her. Another of the group works in the school residency office.
So somehow my residency paperwork didn't go through over the summer and I faxed in a half-a$$ed conglomeration of poorly-photocopied documents. The residency person immediately e-mailed me back: "Yep, it's good enough to be legible, so you're good!"
I cannot tell you how many times I've dealt with bureaucracies where, "Oh, his head is tilted slightly to the side in this one photo, so we have to discard the entire application" , so having city and school bureaucrats who will work with you to get your paperwork approved is... nice.
EDIT: Fair disclaimer: The residency person also lives on the same block as us, so it's not like she doesn't know we live in Albany, so it's all a formality anyway.
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I just thought of a great new thread title
What do you do when paladins fall...in love!
What do you do when paladins fall in love with adamantine grapplin' succubi?
You realise you've been filming Limey's Sexey Dreamz again, that's what.
Looks sternly at Limey.
You know the rules.
I know lots of rules.
My favourite is the one that traps Angry Freehold in an eternal Firefly Facebook fan group where the members recite logarithmic tables in brown coats and it is forever summertime.
I have a cyanide pill to take should that occur.
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Dang it, Daredevil.
>:|
EDIT: half your problems would be solved if you were just daggum honest with each other, and the other half would be solved if you just worked together! Sure, new problems would arise, but it's less than a third of what our go through, now, at worst! Dang it!
E2: well, okay, that was just her being really stupid. So let's compromise and say you'd be down to 3/5ths?
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Anyway, it's always strange and fascinating to see which of my posts will be favorited, by whom, and then trying to guess or understand why by contextual inference (or recognizing the posters).
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If my aim is true trying to stab at the little x in the corner you get a favorite.
If it's not, then I guess wondering or disappointment.
I am also prone to forgetfulness and slow internet, so sometimes I'll forget to, or the site won't let me.
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I'm not looking forward to after school, I have to wash off and rebandage Tiny T-Rex's toe, and then drive him to a birthday party at one of those warehouse climbing gyms they jam on the fringes of towns.
Of course it's in Fitchburg, on the southern fringes of Madison (literally across the street from a corn field) and through the clusterf$#+ of everyone driving home from work to the south all at the same time, and every one trying to out a*@@+@@ the last a&++~%%.
So yeah, my time to shine. :-)
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Anyway, it's always strange and fascinating to see which of my posts will be favorited, by whom, and then trying to guess or understand why by contextual inference (or recognizing the posters).
Such is the eternal angst of my time spent in FAWLT.
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So, marketers are an odd breed, willing to perform virtually any vile act of malfeasance in order to lure consumers out of their cold, hard cash. Yet they manage to come up with phrases such as, "Something good is coming up when you get the Bisquick down," leading you to question their fundamental intellect.
And then along comes Kleenex, whose hideous boxes have spawned a cottage industry of home craft projects to hide their atrocity.
Today's box? "Reach for the Stars!"
Er, no thank you. I have no desire to reach for those stars!
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more flirting time with lisamarlene for me, then.[disgusted]Math fanatics.[/disgusted]Just ignore them.
(Coyly) did I ever mention that I got exactly the same score on the math and language halves of the SAT?
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(Coyly) did I ever mention that I got exactly the same score on the math and language halves of the SAT?more flirting time with lisamarlene for me, then.[disgusted]Math fanatics.[/disgusted]Just ignore them.
there's hope to turn you to the language arts side of things yet...
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(Coyly) did I ever mention that I got exactly the same score on the math and language halves of the SAT?more flirting time with lisamarlene for me, then.[disgusted]Math fanatics.[/disgusted]Just ignore them.there's hope to turn you to the language arts side of things yet...
I was a Lit major. I just really like math.
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I was a Lit major. I just really like math.(Coyly) did I ever mention that I got exactly the same score on the math and language halves of the SAT?more flirting time with lisamarlene for me, then.[disgusted]Math fanatics.[/disgusted]Just ignore them.there's hope to turn you to the language arts side of things yet...
You're a bad girl!
Math is a fundamental set of tools from which you can take principles that apply to every discipline in life.
This is not true.
You do not need maths to write unless you're concerned with iambic pentameter and other rhythm things to do with poetry, in which case you need to be able to count to 10ish, you do not need maths to read, you do not need maths to interact with other people.
Maths is useful but you're overstating it.
Also, it's something that, to some extent or another, will be used in literally everything you do, even if it's really simple versions of the stuff.
Basic addition and subtraction are I sense not the useless information that people are forced to fill their brain with because of dogmatic curriculums to which freehold is referring to. Outside of that basic levels of maths which people should be familiar with by the age of ten, you really don't need much maths at all. And as I have shown, in some areas you don't need it at all.
EDIT: what freehold said about reading is also true, reading is far more valuable in my opinion that most subjects taught at schools.
I am close friends with a girl doing a masters degree in mechanical engineering at Cambridge, she was not a huge maths nerd as a kid, she was in fact a massive book worm, she is extremely well read. I'm friends with several people like her, oxbridge students the theme is being well read.
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Anyway, it's always strange and fascinating to see which of my posts will be favorited, by whom, and then trying to guess or understand why by contextual inference (or recognizing the posters).
I tend to view the plus sign the same way I do the "Like" button on FB: am I going to "Like" or say "oh... favorite!" on a post about arthritis, strokes, hospitalizations, job difficulties, financial difficulties, or quadriplegic dogs in tiny wheelchairs, because I worry that makes me look like a colossal asshat.
But then is the other person thinking... "Wow, that last lame joke about screwing owls got five favorites and my quadriplegic dog gets none? Heartless bastards!"
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I fave things if they make me laugh or I agree with them, usually the agreement thing involves another person whose point I disagree with.
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Oh, speaking of "people behaving badly", today is trash day on the block, so many people leave their side gates open to facilitate rolling the waste bins in and out of their back yards.
So of course some guy has to come walking down the street with an off-its-leash, completely-out-of-control dog.
Not only are some of my neighbors sure to have the joy of finding 'presents' in their back yards, but I let my cats out on leads in the back. Had the dog gone into my yard, it could have been... ugly. Fortunately, I heard the guy yelling and got outside to close my gate in time.
If I thought the police would have responded, I'd have reported the S.O.B.
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
So we were forced to switch insurance courtesy of my husband's job back to the bane of my freaking existence. Damn Cigna! *shakes fist* New policy started Oct 1. Had to take kidlet to urgent care today because of asthma problems. Need prescriptions to treat said asthma problems. Insurance is not letting me get prescriptions for my child to treat his asthma. I have never more wished that I could force choke someone over the phone than I do today. (I find your lack of coverage...disturbing. Cause Sith know the importance of proper treatment for respiratory problems. Obviously.) Grr.
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
So we were forced to switch insurance courtesy of my husband's job back to the bane of my freaking existence. Damn Cigna! *shakes fist* New policy started Oct 1. Had to take kidlet to urgent care today because of asthma problems. Need prescriptions to treat said asthma problems. Insurance is not letting me get prescriptions for my child to treat his asthma. I have never more wished that I could force choke someone over the phone than I do today. (I find your lack of coverage...disturbing. Cause Sith know the importance of proper treatment for respiratory problems. Obviously.) Grr.
I recall that in my Dante-esque travels through, "Worst insurance companies ever", Cigna and HealthNet were tied right at the bottom.
My sympathies.
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Re:math: Do I use algebra every day? Hell no. Algebra is for chumps. I use calculus. It's easier. ;P
And yeah, as a crafter, I use a lot of math. I knit, crochet, sew, and make jewelry. And if you don't think that involves math, you've never found yourself standing in a craft store trying to figure out with the 50% off sale and the 20% off including sales items coupon, can you afford to buy enough skeins of this yarn to make that sweater after converting the pattern to allow for the difference in gauge.....plus don't forget sales tax.....
There are crafters who say they don't math. But then they do long story problems in their heads like it's nothing. Crafters who say they don't math are lying to themselves.
Edit: I also have a math related learning disability so I can definitely understand the anger of the folks who had crappy teachers. I'm just talented enough at math to still be really good at it even with the learning disability. Math and science classes I always ended up tutoring other people on how to do it. And I learned a lot better that way myself. And part of what I learned is that teaching math in large groups is a waste of time. Everyone processes the information so differently, it's really not practical to work with more than six people at a time in my opinion.
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I use math in both my current job, and my preferred job.
I use it at my current job to figure out how long my break is and how long until I can go home.
Also to see how many stuffed animals I can hug in 3 and a half hours.
My preferred job I used it to figure out how deep to dig the hole after demolishing the old shack in the bag of the yard.
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I use math(s) very often, partially because my job frequently involves counting things, and partially because it's extremely helpful if you want to play music; kind of unavoidable, in fact, even if all you do is count up to four before thrashing and shrieking away for the rest of the set.
Vinod Menon (2013)I'll repeat
Basic addition and subtraction are I sense not the useless information that people are forced to fill their brain with because of dogmatic curriculums to which freehold is referring to. Outside of that basic levels of maths which people should be familiar with by the age of ten, you really don't need much maths at all. And as I have shown, in some areas you don't need it at all.
It's not learning to add and subtract, which from a skim is what that article is talking about, from grade 2 to 3 (what age is that?) that I think is unhelpful. It's more about being able to work out the angles in an irregular shape or how to use special functions on a calculator like sin and tan, I don't think being made to memorise that stuff is in anyway useful to normal people. I think that's what freehold is on about
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It will take me approximately a half hour to drive to the party.
There will be approximately 130,000 all trying to pass everyone else to get out of town first.
I have made a Red Hot Chili Peppers mix CD for the drive.
It's damn near impossible to get mad at fellow people when listening to The Red Hot Chili Peppers.
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Math is a fundamental set of tools from which you can take principles that apply to every discipline in life.
This is not true.
You do not need maths to write unless you're concerned with iambic pentameter and other rhythm things to do with poetry, in which case you need to be able to count to 10ish, you do not need maths to read, you do not need maths to interact with other people.
Maths is useful but you're overstating it.
It is that useful - you're misreading what I wrote.
I did not say the formula or specific numeric interaction - the principles and logic thought processes actually do apply to every discipline in life.
Also, it's something that, to some extent or another, will be used in literally everything you do, even if it's really simple versions of the stuff.
Basic addition and subtraction are I sense not the useless information that people are forced to fill their brain with because of dogmatic curriculums to which freehold is referring to. Outside of that basic levels of maths which people should be familiar with by the age of ten, you really don't need much maths at all. And as I have shown, in some areas you don't need it at all.
To a point, yes, that is where he takes umbrage.
The problem, however, is that "math" is a massive field of huge elements, and saying, "math bad" is entirely ignoring pretty much everything.
(Also a fundamental property of human thought, given numbers are necessary to run even extremely basic elements of living.)
EDIT: what freehold said about reading is also true, reading is far more valuable in my opinion that most subjects taught at schools.
I am close friends with a girl doing a masters degree in mechanical engineering at Cambridge, she was not a huge maths nerd as a kid, she was in fact a massive book worm, she is extremely well read. I'm friends with several people like her, oxbridge students the theme is being well read.
Yes and no.
Reading is incredibly important, and extremely valid. In fact, you need the skills of reading in order to learn anything but the most basic math (just as you need writing to be able to perform any but the most basic equations; though I supposed you could substitute typing, but... not really).
But saying, "you should read, rather than do math" is completely missing the message, and obfuscating things. Both are necessary, even though one is fundamental to the other.
Saying "literacy is more valuable than math" is like saying, "The 'See Jane Run' books are more important than Shakespeare." - technically true but entirely deceitful (even if unintentionally so).
That girl that you mentioned was not a "math nerd" but no one here is advocating everyone be a math nerd. Point in fact, she has (and adopted, consciously or not) the logical underpinnings of mathematics and the processes by which it works through her classes and coursework, even if it wasn't intentional or conscious. That's one of the really useful and important parts of going to classes and doing homework. It educates you and introduces you to concepts you may otherwise never encounter, helping you chew and digest things (willingly or not).
I hated MacBeth, but reading it was good for me.
Anyway, it's always strange and fascinating to see which of my posts will be favorited, by whom, and then trying to guess or understand why by contextual inference (or recognizing the posters).
I tend to view the plus sign the same way I do the "Like" button on FB: am I going to "Like" or say "oh... favorite!" on a post about arthritis, strokes, hospitalizations, job difficulties, financial difficulties, or quadriplegic dogs in tiny wheelchairs, because I worry that makes me look like a colossal asshat.
But then is the other person thinking... "Wow, that last lame joke about screwing owls got five favorites and my quadriplegic dog gets none? Heartless bastards!"
I fave things if they make me laugh or I agree with them, usually the agreement thing involves another person whose point I disagree with.
Hah! I favorite things as a method of emote - either in like or agreement, appreciation (even if it's someone disagree with, I can appreciate the arguments as-made), and things that are happy (and thus make me smile) or sad (and thus make me pray).
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Vinod Menon (2013)I'll repeatBasic addition and subtraction are I sense not the useless information that people are forced to fill their brain with because of dogmatic curriculums to which freehold is referring to. Outside of that basic levels of maths which people should be familiar with by the age of ten, you really don't need much maths at all. And as I have shown, in some areas you don't need it at all.It's not learning to add and subtract, which from a skim is what that article is talking about, from grade 2 to 3 (what age is that?) that I think is unhelpful. It's more about being able to work out the angles in an irregular shape or how to use special functions on a calculator like sin and tan, I don't think being made to memorise that stuff is in anyway useful to normal people. I think that's what freehold is on about
Well, Freehold and I have friendly disagreements, but now that more people are on about it, I think there are very key points:
Mathematics is to strengthen the mind. And there's no good substitute
I try to be polite, but it's a serious pet peeve of mine.
In spite of the fact that teaching has longer hours and I'd have to actually go to work every day, if I could get a job right now that paid exactly what I make right now, to teach virtually anywhere in the Bay Area, I'd snap it up.
Such jobs don't exist. Last time I checked with my resume a full-time professorship would net me roughly 40% of what I make now. And I'll be honest; I have a family to support, and I'm not willing to sacrifice them to be a teacher.
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I was going to go into it, but, ^^^that thing^^^ XD
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It only took us 20 minutes to get here.
Crookshanks came with, to climb on everything.
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There are a lot of first graders everywhere.
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Hah! I favorite things as a method of emote - either in like or agreement, appreciation (even if it's someone disagree with, I can appreciate the arguments as-made), and things that are happy (and thus make me smile) or sad (and thus make me pray).
I thought you just favorited all of the things xD I don't fave sad things, because I associate favoriting something with meaning I'm glad about it xD
Maths stuff
It is that useful - you're misreading what I wrote.
We're just going to have to disagree because no it isn't is my reply to you.
I did not say the formula or specific numeric interaction - the principles and logic thought processes actually do apply to every discipline in life.
I would say that you don't need maths lessons to learn those things, there are parts of the world in which people live and have lived for thousands of years without a maths lesson. These people can count, beyond that they don't do maths. They do live successful lives.
You don't need maths to do those things, there are several different ways of learning logic and reasoning and forcing everyone to learn it through complex algebra isn't the only solution, its just the easiest the implement.
To a point, yes, that is where he takes umbrage.The problem, however, is that "math" is a massive field of huge elements, and saying, "math bad" is entirely ignoring pretty much everything.
If I am not mistaken he is doing so humorously? I think to reply to his comments by basically saying "people need to be able to add" seems to be either missing or avoiding the point.
(Also a fundamental property of human thought, given numbers are necessary to run even extremely basic elements of living.)
case in point, I don't think anyone is arguing that being able to count is a bad thing.
Yes and no.Reading is incredibly important, and extremely valid. In fact, you need the skills of reading in order to learn anything but the most basic math (just as you need writing to be able to perform any but the most basic equations; though I supposed you could substitute typing, but... not really).
the idea that some people might grow up being able to type but not right is crazy xD bbut I suspect may be realized in the near future.
But saying, "you should read, rather than do math" is completely missing the message, and obfuscating things. Both are necessary, even though one is fundamental to the other.
I don't think I said that. I said its more valuable than a lot of whats taught in schools. Which it is, that doesn't mean don't do maths.
Saying "literacy is more valuable than math" is like saying, "The 'See Jane Run' books are more important than Shakespeare." - technically true but entirely deceitful (even if unintentionally so).
I don't think it really is like that. I have to say I don't know what the See Jane Run books are, is it something to do with learning to read? I've never heard of them. Perhaps its an american thing.
How "important" Shakespeare is a whole other quite contentious argument and I think one would have define "important" to have it.I said valuable because I think being well read helps form more well developed rounded people, able to look at issues from different points of view and therefore better understand people who don't come from the same background as them. Capable of both more critical and creative thought and reason as well as having a wealth of knowledge.
As in, it adds value.
That girl that you mentioned was not a "math nerd" but no one here is advocating everyone be a math nerd.
Nor are they advocating people not learning how to count or do basic addition or subtraction.
Point in fact, she has (and adopted, consciously or not) the logical underpinnings of mathematics and the processes by which it works through her classes and coursework, even if it wasn't intentional or conscious. That's one of the really useful and important parts of going to classes and doing homework. It educates you and introduces you to concepts you may otherwise never encounter, helping you chew and digest things (willingly or not).
I think logic can be learned lots of ways and suspect she already had it down before she started doing advanced (for most people pointless) maths.
I hated MacBeth, but reading it was good for me.
Not if you didn't take it in, a lot of shakespear is read but not processed. Thats not useful. Its almost as much of a waste of time as me trying to learn what the sin function was for on a calculator.
Well, Freehold and I have friendly disagreements, but now that more people are on about it, I think there are very key points:
Rote memorization of anything beyond the addition and multiplication tables from 0-10 is an utter waste of time
yes it is.
Beyond that, teaching mathematics is of fundamental importance in developing critical thinking skills. Telling students that they need to learn mathematics because they're ever going to use it is disingenuous; very few people actually use algebra and beyond. Yet the way it teaches you to think is of critical importance when you are, for example, trying to decide whether to vote for or against a particular ballot measure, and must read the analyst's report and the arguments for and against and make a decision
There are other ways to teach critical thinking. I think its one of the things that can be developed through reading. I would suggest for the more linguistically incline, getting students to read and write rhetoric. And rhetorical arguments. For the more out going performance oriented kinds, encourage debate teams. I did a module on critical essays at university, the development of some of my fellow class mates critical skills and comprehension of rhetoric was massive.
I would always find a body-builder in my class and ask him or her what lifting weights eventually accomplished, or whether they would ever lift weights in their jobs or day-to-day lives. The answer was always, "No; it's just to strengthen my muscles."
Mathematics is to strengthen the mind. And there's no good substitute
the bolded is where we disagree.
Unfortunately, mathematicians are in great demand in the private sector. When I resigned my professorship, I was unemployed exactly 1 week before a tech company picked me up. I get headhunted once or twice a month, even though I haven't updated my LinkedIn profile in over a decade. Since U.S. schools and colleges pay mathematicians under half what they can make in private industry, there is a dearth of good math teachers One bad math teacher can turn hundreds of students off of math forever
I had a wonderful maths teacher, she moved to Spain at the end of my final year at high school, I cried and helped throw her a party. I was still put of maths.
Until about the age of 12 however I actually really liked maths, it was once we moved to more theoretical maths that I was turned off. from the ages of about 6-12 maths was one of my strongest subjects, by 14 I'd dropped out of top set maths, by 16 I had lost all interest and never bothered with it again. I had my best teacher from the ages 14-16.
For some people I'm sure the teacher is the problem, for some (me) it isn't. Its when you start teaching people maths that as far as I can tell exists mostly for the sake of maths central carriers, not actually useful to 90% of people, that I lost it.
I try to be polite, but it's a serious pet peeve of mine.
In spite of the fact that teaching has longer hours and I'd have to actually go to work every day, if I could get a job right now that paid exactly what I make right now, to teach virtually anywhere in the Bay Area, I'd snap it up.Such jobs don't exist. Last time I checked with my resume a full-time professorship would net me roughly 40% of what I make now. And I'll be honest; I have a family to support, and I'm not willing to sacrifice them to be a teacher.
Teaching and Nursing are in my opinion two of the worst areas for a discrepancy between the importance and value of the job vs how much they're paid.
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There are a lot of first graders everywhere.
I recently went (with my younger cousin) to one of those trampoline park things, I quickly realized several things
1) I could not enjoy this experience as I spent the whole time trying not to kill small children by bouncing on them
2) Although I am svelt I am in no way fit and could not possibly enjoy the experience not only because of the killing small children problem, but also because I was busy retching my lungs out of my chest.
3) There were several very attractive and physically fit people my age monitoring the children who were all deeply attractive and could see how incredibly un-fit I am.
4) Even if I didn't look incredibly un-fit I am a 21 year old whose age is regularly guessed to be around 15, so they'd never have been attracted anyway xD
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Oh, U.S. Health Care, will you never cease to amaze me?
On the one hand, we're insured, so we're not paying anywhere remotely that much (our out-of-pocket maximum per year per person is $2000, so we're "only" paying $2000 of that $94k bill).
On the other hand, seriously? $94k for a procedure that took under an hour? Ouch!
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The fact that people in England complain about the NHS and free at the point of delivery blows my mind.
But that is political isn't it and we're not allowed to say that stuff right?
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The fact that people in England complain about the NHS and free at the point of delivery blows my mind.
But that is political isn't it and we're not allowed to say that stuff right?
Oh, the math discussion was WAY more political.
We stray. Just wait. Fritzy and Freehold will be around to "correct" us forthwith, I'm sure.
Just to make sure:
Donald Trump, the Pope, and Tom Brady walked into a vegan bar full of Scientologists...
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I remember the days before 21, when people only counted the numbers of digits their hands and feet. Ahhhh simpler times.
Nowadays I've heard they go higher than 73, unfathomably high.
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So, this is what happens when I try to take a night off.
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*is rubbing bruise on forehead*
Remind me again, what brings on the bike cannon?