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Ok I have Dm'd in this manner for years. Lately I have laid the dice of doom down and sat back to play a PC. The present GM has challenged everything I thought I knew about time and casting.
If I am correct a round takes six seconds (it does not matter how many people involved it takes six seconds). Not 6seconds for player1+ 6seconds for player 2 ext... Therefore in a single round of combat; initiative already having been completed all the actions occur within a six second time frame. Correct? I think so.
Sooo part two in the past I have run things in this manner. If my "barbarian" hits the GM controlled caster for 18 dmg, the caster (after stepping back five feet and casting defensively) must make a Concentration check of 10+18(damage dealt)+spell level to succeed in casting. Not so according the the new GM since the injury did not occur at the moment the spell was cast (during the standard action) instead the caster simply must make it's defensive casting roll as per normal despite the injury sustained during the round of combat.
Here is the rule regarding injury on the Pathfinder OGC. After reading it I believe that the GM is technically correct. Meaning unless my Barbarian stands beside the caster at the end of his turn with a readied action each round and ten foot reach (or step up) he will rarely disrupt the caster. How are things run in your campaigns?
Injury
If you take damage while trying to cast a spell, you must make a concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + the damage taken + the level of the spell you're casting. If you fail the check, you lose the spell without effect. The interrupting event strikes during spellcasting if it comes between the time you started and the time you complete a spell (for a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or more) or if it comes in response to your casting the spell (such as an attack of opportunity provoked by the spell or a contingent attack, such as a readied action).
If you are taking continuous damage, such as from an acid arrow or by standing in a lake of lava, half the damage is considered to take place while you are casting a spell. You must make a concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the damage that the continuous source last dealt + the level of the spell you're casting. If the last damage dealt was the last damage that the effect could deal, then the damage is over and does not distract you.
How you played it is how I've played it.
Solution? Assuming the new GM doesn't become convinced when you bring up this post, get creative with teaming up a caster with your barbarian, and every time someone attacks your caster, take an AOO against the aggressor.
I'm not as familiar with AOO rules, so someone else will have to tackle that.
On the other hand, it just makes casters more effective and possibly stupidly so, which means the DM may start playing them stupid and try to get them into melee range, which is where your barbarian should be able to smack 'em down. Or grapple 'em with spiked armor and all that.
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How you played it is how I've played it.
Solution? Assuming the new GM doesn't become convinced when you bring up this post, get creative with teaming up a caster with your barbarian, and every time someone attacks your caster, take an AOO against the aggressor.
I'm not as familiar with AOO rules, so someone else will have to tackle that.
On the other hand, it just makes casters more effective and possibly stupidly so, which means the DM may start playing them stupid and try to get them into melee range, which is where your barbarian should be able to smack 'em down. Or grapple 'em with spiked armor and all that.
Actually yes grappling a caster is still pretty much a sealed deal, it now affects them more than damage. (unless perfectly timed)
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My understanding, and the only way I've seen it with 50 or so GMs in the 3.5/PF era, is that you have to hit him during your turn to disrupt and cause a concentration check. That can be through an AoO or a readied action; a readied action can include a 5' step. But, you merely hitting him during the round is insufficient.
I wouldn't mind doing it the other way; it makes for an interesting situation.
My understanding, and the only way I've seen it with 50 or so GMs in the 3.5/PF era, is that you have to hit him during your turn to disrupt and cause a concentration check. That can be through an AoO or a readied action; a readied action can include a 5' step. But, you merely hitting him during the round is insufficient.
Mine too.
You have to do damage on the caster's init. A readied action or ongoing damage (like if they are on fire) will do the trick. Think of it this way, a round is six seconds, but a caster is not vulnerable to being disrupted that whole time. During that time they get a move action or a five foot step, they have to get out their spell components, they have to choose their target. Casting their spell only takes one part of that, and if you can whack them during that time, they have to make a concentration check.
P
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However, the reason casters don't just wade into direct contact with foes is the act of casting also provokes the attack of opportunity, which is resolved as an interruption.
Well sort of It provokes an Aoo if the caster fails to cast defensively
Casting DefensivelyIf you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a concentration check (DC 15 + double the level of the spell you're casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.
All you need is a successful con check and your caster can dance through combat (of course his lowered Ac usually hurts but some clerics/ Inquisitors can have pretty good AC and HP). This sucks at low level but at higher levels it's a cinch.. example 12th lev caster casting 3rd level spell in melle must make a DC21 con check or loose the spell (while not provoking an Aoo while casting defensively) Likely the caster will have Aprox +4 to relevant ability so D20+12+4=16+roll meaning 75% chance of making the roll
ConcentrationWhen you make a concentration check, you roll d20 and add your caster level and the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type.
Now I sound like a whiny gamer.. Haha. I am just used to my old method but I too can change if I have to, I guess... hehe. Anyone know Red Green? Regardless it works but it's just different. Thanks for the info all I now have the negative reinforcement I needed.
Note that Con isn't involved in concentrating anymore, it's the primary casting attribute.
And a 12th level caster casting a 3rd level spell will surely have an easy time, since at that point, 3rd level spells are usually kind of bad (especially in melee!). What are you going to cast in melee range? :S I can see if you want to cast Fly to escape and the opponent has step-up, but otherwise I don't know why you would.
A 12th level caster casting a 6th level spell has to beat a DC of 27, and since he probably has a modifier of +18 or +19, he'd have about 60-65% chance of succeeding. If he has Combat Casting, it's up to 80-85%.
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Note that Con isn't involved in concentrating anymore, it's the primary casting attribute.
And a 12th level caster casting a 3rd level spell will surely have an easy time, since at that point, 3rd level spells are usually kind of bad (especially in melee!). What are you going to cast in melee range? :S I can see if you want to cast Fly to escape and the opponent has step-up, but otherwise I don't know why you would.
A 12th level caster casting a 6th level spell has to beat a DC of 27, and since he probably has a modifier of +18 or +19, he'd have about 60-65% chance of succeeding. If he has Combat Casting, it's up to 80-85%.
Yeah I suppose with a full casting class this is true. I was using an Inquisitor, We also have a summoner and a cleric in the group so lower level spell are the norm and usually used to heal, aid (buff) protect, avoid. And I suppose combat casting is much more important in this system. hmm.
Actually just to clarify. Failing to cast defensively does not provoke and AoO.
If you elect to cast defensively you do not provoke and AoO but you must make a Concentration Check. If you fail the check you loose the spell. If you make the check the spell goes off as normal.
Casting defensively whether successful or not does not provoke and AoO. The check is only made to see if you cast the spell successfully.
Atleast that is the way I read it.
+1
And honestly, the everything happens at once makes no since given that every initiative step involves multiple actions. If everything truly happened at once everyone would have to jot down there actions for the round and then all reveal them at once, leading to all kinds of botched attacks/spells/etc.
Example: I am going to glitterdust that guy... everyone reveals there cards, the target moved out of the range of the spell before your initiative step... you do not get to adjust your action to compensate for his movement and the spell is wasted.
Note, however, the difference between a standard action casting time, a 1 round casting time and a full-round casting time.
When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration from 1 round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration after starting the spell and before it is complete, you lose the spell.
In this situation, if the magic user is attacked (and hit) between his turn that he used to begin casting the spell, and the beginning of his next turn (when it goes off), then a concentration check of a difficulty determined by the damage he took is required.
I find it really lame to have to say "ready an action to attack him if he casts a spell." Then the evil wizard just moves away from him or uses a magical item or drinks a potion and he basically looses his action because the wizard didn't "Cast a spell".
Not quite true, you do not lose the action you can choose to do another standard action instead of the action you readied after the wizards turn has past, effectively moving your initiative in the round to that point.
Not quite true, you do not lose the action you can choose to do another standard action instead of the action you readied after the wizards turn has past, effectively moving your initiative in the round to that point.
I find it really lame to have to say "ready an action to attack him if he casts a spell." Then the evil wizard just moves away from him or uses a magical item or drinks a potion and he basically looses his action because the wizard didn't "Cast a spell".
Nope. If the conditions for your readied action are not met, you don't do anything else until your next turn.
Nope. If the conditions for your readied action are not met, you don't do anything else until your next turn.Not quite true, you do not lose the action you can choose to do another standard action instead of the action you readied after the wizards turn has past, effectively moving your initiative in the round to that point.
I find it really lame to have to say "ready an action to attack him if he casts a spell." Then the evil wizard just moves away from him or uses a magical item or drinks a potion and he basically looses his action because the wizard didn't "Cast a spell".
ah yes you are right, it is something I have houseruled for ages to not frustrate people readying actions too much.
ah yes you are right, it is something I have houseruled for ages to not frustrate people readying actions too much.Nope. If the conditions for your readied action are not met, you don't do anything else until your next turn.Not quite true, you do not lose the action you can choose to do another standard action instead of the action you readied after the wizards turn has past, effectively moving your initiative in the round to that point.
I find it really lame to have to say "ready an action to attack him if he casts a spell." Then the evil wizard just moves away from him or uses a magical item or drinks a potion and he basically looses his action because the wizard didn't "Cast a spell".
That's the trade-off for readying an action. It can interrupt other people's actions, but at the risk of losing your own.
If you want to be able to take your action later, use the Delay action instead. Delay is used much more often than Ready at my table.
I've let archers declare something like "I'm targeting the bad guy in the funny robes. If he begins to cast or ends his turn, I shoot him."
Ok I have Dm'd in this manner for years. Lately I have laid the dice of doom down and sat back to play a PC. The present GM has challenged everything I thought I knew about time and casting.
If I am correct a round takes six seconds (it does not matter how many people involved it takes six seconds). Not 6seconds for player1+ 6seconds for player 2 ext... Therefore in a single round of combat; initiative already having been completed all the actions occur within a six second time frame. Correct? I think so.
Sooo part two in the past I have run things in this manner. If my "barbarian" hits the GM controlled caster for 18 dmg, the caster (after stepping back five feet and casting defensively) must make a Concentration check of 10+18(damage dealt)+spell level to succeed in casting. Not so according the the new GM since the injury did not occur at the moment the spell was cast (during the standard action) instead the caster simply must make it's defensive casting roll as per normal despite the injury sustained during the round of combat.
The way you describe it, makes it sound as though ALL actions happen simultaneously (at the same initiative count) but each person is taking a turn to say what they are doing.
If that were true, then all PCs / NPCs / monsters, etc would get to act each turn, even if reduced to zero HP or held, charmed, slept, etc.
Unfortunately, it is a pain to pin down and hamper a caster - but once it is done, they are nearly useless. That's the trade off of having Godlike power.