Very well...
To your first point, why do you have a subscription if you only buy what you want to use? You must have know that they would eventually put out something that you weren't interested in.
Sure, but until that time I would be supporting Paizo directly with my money, getting the PDF tossed in, and including myself in the list of subscribers, which is good for them to calculate demand and show investors, or what have you. When the time came that they were going to do something that I wouldn't be interested in, I'd cancel my subscription until something more to my liking came along, at which point I'd re-up.
To your second point... why buy it?
Well that's what I was asking James. That was the point, you see -- why should I buy the next two APs given the concerns that he articulated? He answered that for Carrion Crown, so I'll buy it.
To your third point you seemed to have misunderstood me. I assumed that in the context of the sentence you would interpret 'mature' as 'mature content' not 'acting mature'. Anything can be taken mature/immature. I've know people who can make high society fart jokes, I've known people who could crack jokes watching the Passion of the Christ. What I meant was 'mature adult content' when I said mature content. Hence my continued reference to what could be construed as offensive material. And to your last line, again, why buy it?
My response was keyed to the fact that many of the people in this thread who've used the term "mature" were not merely indicating content, but implying that their preference for said content meant that their approach was mature in and of itself, and contrasting approaches were therefore immature. That is rank nonsense.
To your forth point, I am glad you agree. But if you do, then why start this thread? It seems like a simple case of this not being your ascetic. If that is the case, then see my answer to your first point.
Just because heroes sometimes fail and die doesn't mean that I want to be forced to indulge in the blasphemous traditions of the undead, as the blurb implied I would be in that book. Again, my reason for starting the thread was specifically to ask James Jacobs (or any Paizonian) if the blurbs were accurate or not. I had no intention of sparking any other discussion with anyone else; I did spark a discussion, but that wasn't why I started the thread.
To your fifth point please see my answer to your third point on my use of the word mature. But you seemed to have missed the intended message here. I was saying "Understand that we have differing views and things you (and I assume your players by default)find uninteresting or offensive, I (and I assume my players by default) may find interesting and entertaining."
I've said many times before in this thread that different groups have different tastes. I don't care about their tastes. I wanted to know if I should spend my money on this product. I don't care what you spend your money on. But my hackles got raised when people came in implying I was immature because I don't want to wallow in filth.
To your sixth point... you are correct and I graciously accept. It's my hope that you enjoy the adventure path after Jade Regent.
I hope so too, but if not I'm sure I'll delight in something else down the road.
"Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
In my experience, no book I have ever read, movie I have ever watched, song I have ever heard, or game I have ever played has been enriched or improved by 'mature' content. A good story or adventure stands on its own without having to resort to cheap tricks to attract an audience, which is so often the case.
A brief list of things made better or possible thanks to adult content.
Books:
Fight Club
Choke
Catcher in the Rye
Song of Ice and Fire (George R.R. Martin)
Heralds of Valdemar
WatchmenFilms:
Fight Club (again it's very good)
Requiem for a Dream
DeliveranceGames:
Grand Theft Auto series
Hook Mountain Massacre
Left 4 Dead 2.Hope that helps :)
More films:
Dog Tooth
Splice
Cube
Delicatessen
Leon
Oldboy
TV:
The Wire
The main problem I see with listing books, movies, and games that are 'made possible' by the inclusion of adult content is that they are hardly representative. For every piece of media that tastefully uses adult content to advance a story or produce an emotional impact, there is a mountain of media that uses it for lurid shock value.
I'm not saying that adult content in and of itself is bad. Schindler's List is one of my favorite films and very instructive in realistically portraying the horrors of war and genocide. But I am saying that the argument for the artistic merit of adult content cannot shake from itself the fact that most of the purveyors of adult content are devoid of artistic merit. But hey, that's just my opinion.
And so are most of the purveyors of media without adult content. It isn't anything to do with adult content, it is to do with the profit driven nature of successful media.
Well stated Gregg. I hope that you find out what you wanted to from this thread, and you enjoy whatever future product that you settle on. I plan to wash my hands of this before the shot sails any further off target. Happy Gaming everyone!
A brief list of things made better or possible thanks to adult content.Books:
Fight Club
Choke
Catcher in the Rye
Song of Ice and Fire (George R.R. Martin)
Heralds of Valdemar
WatchmenFilms:
Fight Club (again it's very good)
Requiem for a Dream
DeliveranceGames:
Grand Theft Auto series
Hook Mountain Massacre
Left 4 Dead 2.Hope that helps :)
More films:
Dog Tooth
Splice
Cube
Delicatessen
Leon
OldboyTV:
The Wire
Apropos of nothing much really, if you were to cut all the adult material out of American Psycho all that would be left would be some guy saying how much he liked a Phil Collins solo album, which is fairly disturbing in itself.
I think the Normandy beach landing scene in Saving Private Ryan was most assuredly "mature content", and was furthermore absolutely integral in setting the tone of the film and making you emotionally invested in the characters. That event has appeared in dozens of movies, but never so real or so powerful as in that movie, and it has a powerful, viceral effect on the viewer.
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I think the Normandy beach landing scene in Saving Private Ryan was most assuredly "mature content", and was furthermore absolutely integral in setting the tone of the film and making you emotionally invested in the characters. That event has appeared in dozens of movies, but never so real or so powerful as in that movie, and it has a powerful, viceral effect on the viewer.
In the same vein, the entirety of Black Hawk Down.
I've only seen 2 episodes of Buffy. One of them wasn't the musical. I've heard great things about it, but I refuse to watch it.
Same goes for "Dr. Horrible's Singalong Blog." Pass.
Oh, now you've done it, you made Joss Whedon cry.
Creative Director
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Oh, now you've done it, you made Joss Whedon cry.I've only seen 2 episodes of Buffy. One of them wasn't the musical. I've heard great things about it, but I refuse to watch it.
Same goes for "Dr. Horrible's Singalong Blog." Pass.
Given the treatment Firefly got from the networks, I suspect he's used to crying.
Well, I for one am an adult, and like adult content in my gaming. One of the reasons I buy Paizo products is because they are the most adult of the otherwise largely goofy and simplistic field out there. I stopped being fascinated with "Oh look Iput some gnolls in a dungeon room" some decades ago, and the complexity and realism (including the recognition of things that exist in the real world) of Golarion and the APs is great.
Given the treatment Firefly got from the networks, I suspect he's used to crying.Oh, now you've done it, you made Joss Whedon cry.I've only seen 2 episodes of Buffy. One of them wasn't the musical. I've heard great things about it, but I refuse to watch it.
Same goes for "Dr. Horrible's Singalong Blog." Pass.
Not to mention Dollhouse, and the way Buffy and Angel ended. At least he got a motion picture to finish telling the Firefly story, thats more than most cancelled TV shows can say.
Oh, now you've done it, you made Joss Whedon cry.I've only seen 2 episodes of Buffy. One of them wasn't the musical. I've heard great things about it, but I refuse to watch it.
Same goes for "Dr. Horrible's Singalong Blog." Pass.
Someone collect the tears for me?
Oh, now you've done it, you made Joss Whedon cry.I've only seen 2 episodes of Buffy. One of them wasn't the musical. I've heard great things about it, but I refuse to watch it.
Same goes for "Dr. Horrible's Singalong Blog." Pass.
Someone collect the tears for me?
We've tried, but to date Science has not yet developed the material that can handle the bitterly acidic nature of the fluid involved.
Even alloys of Fandom and Shippium have failed.
*runs screaming from the thread as the bad karma sets him spontaneously on fire*
Oh, now you've done it, you made Joss Whedon cry.I've only seen 2 episodes of Buffy. One of them wasn't the musical. I've heard great things about it, but I refuse to watch it.
Same goes for "Dr. Horrible's Singalong Blog." Pass.
Someone collect the tears for me?
Collecting components to craft an artifact? As a sidenote, who else misses the official AD&D rules and method of making magic items, it was so jam packed with flavor.
The reason for that is it's simply not to my taste, in the "I do not like thee, Dr. Fell" sort of way. At the same time, I realize that this sort of content IS to an awful lot of people's liking, and since you can't please everyone I completely understand that sometimes things will come along that I simply don't care for. It's not even that I don't LIKE it so much as I don't care about it at all. De gustibus non est disputandum and all that.
Fair enough. I hope you check it out anyway. And I'm honestly a little curious as to why it's not to your taste, but if you don't want to go into it further, that's fine.
Personally, having grown up watching movies like Godzilla, Seven Samurai, Ringu, and various kung-fu movies, I've always been interested in Asian fantasy themes.
But if, for example, Paizo were to produce the AP equivilent of my most hated genre, the Musical, I would probably cancel my subscription for a half-year too. ;-)
One of the greatest con games I've seen was a Western musical starring "Cthulhu the Kid" (wanted for the destruction of the earth, devouring mankind and cattle rustlin'".
I expect nothing but better from Paizo... ;)
Yeah I know with the subscription model it would be tricky. But my thought would be do a stand alone product, layout all the idea's first well in advance. Put it up for preorder and encourage people that want it to preorder. That would help give you a ballpark for a print run. Then if it sells well enough, you could add another product line. Like what you did with the fiction line. Perhaps something like 3 books a year that print stuff you feel you couldn't get away with in the normal product lines. Then if it grows in popularity you can add more products to it. It would be a mixed line, like maybe 1 splat book a year and 2 adventures or something.
We haven't considered that yet, but the fact that we offer subscriptions makes it a tricky process. If we did a book that was that far out of the expected norm, it'd have to be a stand-alone book, and producing stand-alone books are a lot riskier than subscriptions anyway... ESPECIALLY if they're books that won't appeal to as many people as a stand-alone book.We don't want to sneak a truly mature-content book into the subscription lines, because when we did that with Dragon magazine, a lot of people were outraged. Including some pretty famous industry folks.
Agreed with what the succubus ... I mean well-respected community member ... said. ;-)
brb, wincing from flashbacksOldboy
+1. Koreans make the Japanese seem like a casual stroll in the park.
Well fine, you ignore the actions of a organised crime syndicate for six months,
Six months? This is DnD. In six months of action the party would be taking over the entire continent. That's just how the game works, you know. Consider, that without assumed periods of downtime between adventures, which is, take note, downtime because nothing happens during it, you can finish most of the post-Dragon Paizo's AP under six weeks of game time. The only major exception is Kingmaker, but mostly because you are forced to travel alot before getting access to fast modes of travel. That's even without serious sequence-breaking.
So your entire argument might be valid for Peasants&Crapmongers, but not for DnD. And in reality the end result invariably will be "PCs rearrange the society however the heck they want, because they are powerful enough to write laws and make people obey them (or else)". Yes, this is a fairly cynical approach to changing the world, but as how things actually tend to work in DnD, people are lucky that it's PCs who will be applying it, rather than Darklord McSkullstomp (which, do note, is what happens if PCs fail in any of the APs).
It isn't about it being unwinnable. This is after all a role-playing game. No one wins the game.
Wrong. If my character reaches goals I've placed for him (and I will place goals for him, because a setting so nonexistant that I can't decide what my character wants in it, is not worth playing), I won. If he doesn't, I lose. You (like, in fact, most people saying that "No one wins the game."), in essense, are saying that the only possible outcome for remotely genre-appropriate goals is "he doesn't". And I say that this is bad and you should feel bad.
Rather it is about making a characters choices meaningful. Choices must have consequences.
Then why you are arguing for making a character's choices meaningless? Because that's what you do, by saying that regardless of the choseon option the consequences will be negative.
FatR is obviously not a film buff.And I think he got my point just fine, he just doesn't like that he contradicted himself.
Care to point where I contradicted myself?
If the monsters don't really do anything TOO awful, then why do the PCs kill them and take their stuff?
That's a good question, by the way.
But in a setting that isn't supposed to be mind-shatteringly grimdark, the answers should be "because killing people and taking their stuff isn't the only realistic solution, at least unless we talk about fiends or something like this".
If all the decisions PCs make are easy, then why play Pathfinder instead of a skirmish game?
A good point. Do you realize, though, that if monsters are universally monstrous, then "kill them all, then kill their souls too, if you can" is actually an easy decision to make? I mean, assuming that you actually have means to exterminate every Golarion bugbear, or ogre, or gargoyle in the world and to consign their souls to oblivion (so they won't go to one of the various hells and won't empower forces of evil in the process of their torment and final destruction), proceeding with it is not only a no-brainer, it's the most merciful thing you can possibly do.
For that matter, "the schtick of this entire race is killing and torturing other sentients for the lulz, because they are EVIL" is neither an inventive approach, not a mature one. It's the approach associated with videogame mobs and bad authors, and this is not changed by adding extra graphic gore. No, really. In decent stories even creatures that are explicitly created to f*** the world up, and can't really be talked down, like Tolkien's orcs, or Darkspawn from Dragon Age have better reasons and explanations for their behavior. And as Paizo likes Ctulhu Mythos... well Lovecraft's thingies mostly were simply selfish and powerful enough to not give a damn about what narrow-minded hairless primates think of their actions, or so alien that they harmed said primates by pure accident.
But hey, I also like exalted, because while it does give you superpowers, it also tries to explore what said superpowers mean for the world.
Ahahahahahaha.
Are you seriously bringing Exalted as an example? The game that is infamous for stacking the deck against PCs with mid-bosses so insanely overpowered, that, by authors' own admission, you, assuming nearly the absolute best set of characters possible, needed years of (real-life) grind to compete with them, even in a situation massively stacked in your favor? Oh, and for being eye-poppingly grimdark (including all established factions being total dicks). The game, in which, for half of its life, you were totally supposed to lose and see the world destroyed before your eyes? The game, which, for second half of its life, told you with the straight face, that the absolute dictature of the chosen few is the best outcome for the world, because in the fairyland of Exalted the chosen few will be virtuous and stuff?
I'm sorry, I just don't understand your position. Schindler's List simply wouldn't carry the same weight if it were rated G.
This is a good example, but maybe not in the direction you think. Compared to the reality, things that appeared on screen in Schindler's List were toned down. A lot. It was easily possible to add waaaay more horrific and nauseating details (or disturbing sex-related details, really). But would the treatment of the subject matter have been more mature because of that?
I was a WoD player for quite a few years (despite the fact that the system is terrible) becuase I really enjoyed the setting. I dropped it right around the time Hunter came out because I felt like it had lost it's charm.
I knew a lot of people who weren't interested in D&D for many of the reasons listed in this thread (lack of moral ambiguity, level/class based advancement = sigh inducing, etc.)
We stumbled onto Fantasy Flight's Midnight setting and absolutely fell in love. (seriously. Imagine LotR if Sauron had WON, then fast forward a hundred years and drop your heroes into the middle of that mess.)
After wading through that setting for 4+ years, I wanted something lighter. That's how I found Golarion.
Strangely enough, my players mostly gravitated toward shiny good guys after the bitter angry bastards they'd been playing in Midnight.
One of the very first encounters, against normal Pathfinder orcs, the players resorted to negotiation, and ended up befriending the small tribe of badnasty orcs and helping them for quite a while, even defending them against their enemies.
When the party left, they heard that the orcs had raided the town the party had been protecting, after the party had helped the tribe.
The went back full of piss and vinegar, angry at the betrayal and revenge, and slaughtered their former friends, who were in the middle of eating a feast of the townsfolk. The chief, in the middle of the fight, pleaded with the heroes, asking why they were killing the people they had helped.
The look on the PC's faces when they realized that the Orcs honestly did not understand why they were being attacked, and that to them, the PC's were exactly like what the orcs were to the villagers, was priceless.
See, they were used to "morally grey" games, and switching over to a world where the monster's stat block saying CHAOTIC EVIL really means something was something they just weren't prepared for.
To me, "grim" and "grey" and "mature" don't mean the same things they do in WoD or even Midnight. Grim isn't tragic anti-heroes struggling with their own inner demons and playing silly political games with other monsters. Grim is the shining beacon of light Paladin deciding to kill helpless orc children because his Detect Evil ability tells him that they simply cannot help themselves.
To maybe add something positive to the thread, all this talk convinced me to at least take a good look at Carrion Crown. You know, I actually like the possibility for diplomatic solutions. Very much. As long as it is not "buddy up with these baby-eatingly evil bastards or fail the quest" in disguise.
Oh, and Doomed Hero, there is a teensy little problem with this sort of grimdark. Namely, you can sucker punch your players, like you did, once, but very soon they will treat all the evil races, men, women and children, as mobs to be farmed without any second (or first) thought. And it will much, much harder to make players second-guess the kill-em-all approach again.
Oh, and Doomed Hero, there is a teensy little problem with this sort of grimdark. Namely, you can sucker punch your players, like you did, once, but very soon they will treat all the evil races, men, women and children, as mobs to be farmed without any second (or first) thought. And it will much, much harder to make players second-guess the kill-em-all approach again.
I can see that as a generalization. Didn't happen with my group though. See, the mob farming mentality is a staple of Monty Hall style games, which can be a lot of fun sometimes, but generally speaking is a play style my group avoids like the plague (unless that's the point of the game and it's all in good fun)
I like to think that more groups don't fall into smash-and-grab cycles that are devoid of lasting impact, but I can't speak for them. I'm pretty lucky when it comes to my core gaming group. I hear a lot of people haven't had the same experience.
Have to say this has been a great thread, even though it's gone slightly off track. I was interested in the OP since I feel exactly the same way about Asian / Oriental adventures. Love J horror (and the novels of Murakami), but in terms of running a mediaeval / fantasy game... nope. And given that, if I ran it, it would just be western guys in strange clothes. I don’t have the involvement to really bring it to life.
But I’ve got no intention of cancelling my sub (having only started with Serpent’s Skull). The APs are things of beauty, and I get a lot out of owning and reading them. Besides which, I’m thoroughly reassured by James’ comments that the first three are more travel oriented. If there isn’t something in there I can mine for my own games, then I’m letting my players down.
Still, if there were two APs straight I didn’t think I’d run, I probably would have a hard job justifying the expenditure. Depends really. As it stands, I’m HUGELY looking forward to Carrion Crown. And yes, I expect my gamers to espouse mature themes, and hard choices. And to stand by the consequences of those choices. One of my favourite gaming experiences was DMing Night Below, and watching the party ally with Lilianth the Marilith and her three friends. They didn’t *have* to do that, it was their choice based on a lot of debate and hard decisions. They just didn’t think they could take the entire aboleth city down, especially when they learned about the Pit Fiend in there. And after three years underground they’d been worn down and brutalised, seen friends die needlessly, enslaved, or vanish. So yes, they girded their swords and palled up with the four demons. It wasn't compulsory, I’m just very grateful the adventure provided an option to accommodate that style of play. And they destroyed the city, and without the demons they probably wouldn’t have, at least without a much greater loss of life. And as a parting gift Lilianth didn’t even kill them, contenting herself with flaying their sorcerer (with the celestial bloodline) and stapling his skin to the cave they were resting in, together with a magic mouth suggesting they look her up in the Abyss sometime. And sure, I’m aware that style of campaign isn’t to everyone’s taste. It was a bitter pill and they swallowed it, but knew they’d saved the world in the process. Worth it? That was for their own gods to decide, come judgement day.
So I’m definitely thumbs up for at least having the opportunity to think about those kind of choices in Carrion Crown, and also for any mature product that Paizo subsequently puts out. I want my players to have the option of having friends in low places. If they reject that option, then they are more actively *choosing* to be good and moral and upstanding, than if they just did it ‘because’, well, that’s what a hero does.
CARRION CROWN:...
You win James. I'm subscribing to this AP. ;)
The reason for that is it's simply not to my taste, in the "I do not like thee, Dr. Fell" sort of way. At the same time, I realize that this sort of content IS to an awful lot of people's liking, and since you can't please everyone I completely understand that sometimes things will come along that I simply don't care for. It's not even that I don't LIKE it so much as I don't care about it at all. De gustibus non est disputandum and all that.
For me, I'll be dumping Jade Regent (and all my subscriptions) as I have zero interest in the travel part. Way too dependent on geography, too difficult to move to another campaign if I so desire (none of the other APs were difficult *at all*) and travel is - in general - boring for me and my players.
I definitely feel better about James' blub re: Carrion Crown. That allying with horrible evil nonsense was... well... nonsense.
Well, I for one am an adult, and like adult content in my gaming. One of the reasons I buy Paizo products is because they are the most adult of the otherwise largely goofy and simplistic field out there. I stopped being fascinated with "Oh look Iput some gnolls in a dungeon room" some decades ago, and the complexity and realism (including the recognition of things that exist in the real world) of Golarion and the APs is great.
+1
CARRION CROWN:...You win James. I'm subscribing to this AP. ;)
Me too! This'll be my first AP subscription. (Did I post this already? Can't remember. Brain... failing...)
My current RotRL campaign should end sometime after all six installments of Carrion Crown are out, so that's likely to be next up for my group.
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Creative Director
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I just have to throw in a quick point here...you do know it's not *supposed* to be realistic, right James?It doesn't matter if it's supposed to be realistic or not. I still don't like it.Oh, I know. I didn't mean you were *supposed* to like it. I'm just saying that the lack of realism isn't a flaw. It's an intended method of dramatic expression. Kind of like the way in David Lynch's films people behave unrealistically, as well. The unrealistic behavior is used to set a particular artistic tone, or communicate an idea through symbolism rather than realism. I get why people may not like it--it's all a matter of taste. You like what you like. I just often get a sense that people think that musicals are somehow "failing" by being unrealistic, but that's no more true than to suggest that Mel Brooks movies are "failing" by not being more serious and dramatic. Musicals--well-crafted ones--are exactly what they are trying to be. And some people are going to like them, and some people aren't. And that's perfectly cool. =)
Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about operas? (I'm not a big fan of opera, myself...but for other reasons.)
And now, to get this slightly back on topic...speaking of opera, I don't suppose we're going to see a mysterious, gothic, phantom-haunted opera house in Carrion Crown, are we? =) I think that would absolutely fit what the tone of the AP seems to be.
Best,
~~~~Random
I've not seen many operas, but what I have seen is pretty cool. Operas are very different in my mind to musicals, though, because they're not lame. :P
Sometimes, a person's likes and dislikes don't have logical reasons behind them, in other words, and attempts to convince them that they SHOULD like what they don't like only make them hate musicals all the more.
Operas are very different in my mind to musicals, though, because they're not BadWrongFun. :P
Fixed that for you. ;)
*walks away starting to sing* ... Ooooooooklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain...
Sometimes, a person's likes and dislikes don't have logical reasons behind them, in other words, and attempts to convince them that they SHOULD like what they don't like only make them hate Asian-themed games all the more.
Fixed that typo for ya. ;-)
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Creative Director
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Operas are very different in my mind to musicals, though, because they're not BadWrongFun. :PFixed that for you. ;)
*walks away starting to sing* ... Ooooooooklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain...
Just so you know... the "fixed that for you" stunt is one of my least favorite bits of internet behavior. (makes a black mark next to Dale's name on the giant database)
I don't know about anyone else but the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" trope is much more appealing to me than good characters behaving like @#$%ing daemons or hard-wiring genocide of certain races as a good thing because that's just the way it is.
I feel the same way. Unfortunately, the players in my real-life group are more of the variety "I'm Good, they're Evil. They must be exterminated, whether they are doing something wrong or not". Nothing wrong with that, per se, but some encounters just doesn't work that well as a result (gray-area stuff is right out the window).
So, the compromise of both options being mentioned in the AP is a good one. It lets me enjoy the first option while reading it, while my players will enjoy the second option when playing it. Good times all around :)
You get a black mark too.
NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ....
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In the question of roleplaying and alignments, something I heard Willem Dafoe say once in an interview changed my perspective. He was asked what the difference was between playing a heroe vs a villain. His response,"There ain't no difference, man. Everybody's righteous, in his own mind."
That's true in real life, and I think applicable in roleplaying games as well.
Just so you know... the "fixed that for you" stunt is one of my least favorite bits of internet behavior. (makes a black mark next to Dale's name on the giant database)Operas are very different in my mind to musicals, though, because they're not BadWrongFun. :PFixed that for you. ;)
*walks away starting to sing* ... Ooooooooklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain...
sorry about that. I was not aware of that or I would have attempted some other form of humor (and probably failed at that as well, I have a net penalty to Perform(humor)).
Just so you know... the "fixed that for you" stunt is one of my least favorite bits of internet behavior. (makes a black mark next to Dale's name on the giant database)Operas are very different in my mind to musicals, though, because they're not BadWrongFun. :PFixed that for you. ;)
*walks away starting to sing* ... Ooooooooklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain...
+1
It feels very disrespectful to the original poster.
+1It feels very disrespectful to the original poster.
Well I certainly hope James knows I intended no disrespect. I always get a chuckle when someone does it to me, but as with everything else, tastes in humor vary from individual to individual. So, sorry to James, and I'll put that sort of thing on the shelf on this board.
Well I certainly hope James knows I intended no disrespect. I always get a chuckle when someone does it to me, but as with everything else, tastes in humor vary from individual to individual. So, sorry to James, and I'll put that sort of thing on the shelf on this board.
+1It feels very disrespectful to the original poster.
SIDE NOTE: Before the days of forums and RSS feeds (not to mention the "fixed that" gag), I spent a lot of time on UseNet. One of the funniest exchanges I ever saw between two posters went something like this (paraphrasing):
POSTER 1: Man, there's nothing as cool as a ten-minute dance remix of a Tori Amos song.
POSTER 2: You misspelled "excruciating".