Yes, and I second KaeYoss' question. Especially since Pathfinder has told us numerous times (take a look at your Gamemastery Guide, buddy) that this is the way the game was intended to be played.
Yes.
And why do you make it sound (the all-caps REALLY) as if this was worse than murdering puppy dogs?
He's allergic to dogs? Ergo, murdering puppy dogs = good?
j/k
Well you have to look at it from a perspective of about 2% of the population being adventurers, much less being of sufficient level to craft items, and then smaller still those that are spell casters, then also take into consideration that most of those made magic items aren't created with resale in mind and they're very often removed from the "economy" in a cavern/dungeon/alternate plane/monster stomach or some such due to a failed adventure.
There aren't traditionally thousands of retired adventurers looking to pawn off their possessions, or just retired adventurers as a whole.
If 2% of the population is adventurers then a city like Absalom has about 6078 adventurers approximately. Once you start tallying up the populations of the various kingdoms you end up with a bunch of adventurers all over the world. Even a small town with 100 people ends up with 2 adventurers at that rate. If they are anything like the player characters then they probably don't stay in one place for a huge amount of time unless they are retired. Basically you would have a small but noticeable class of people who are on the move often and have decent amounts of disposable wealth. These people would also be very interested in acquiring magic items just like the player characters are.
Overall this paints an interesting picture of a society that has a large but limited demand for magic items. Essentially the demand for lower level items is going to be high but also there should be enough of them to go around. Higher level items are rarer and there is probably more demand for them but since they are harder to come by the prices are substantially higher. Overall the society has little in common with any society that we have ever had on Earth. I assume that the base game makes magic items available because of game balance and that the abundance of adventurers is specifically done to explain why there are so many items floating around. But I understand as well that not everyone wants that in their game.
In the end though it all comes down to what your gaming group prefers and what works for them. As long as everyone has fun with the game it is all okay.
Anyways, I apologize for derailing this thread. I was simply interested in exploring the math behind 2% of the population being adventurers.
later,
Rzach
Yes, always.
I tend to have NPCs introduced that can create items or introduce the PCs to a high level market. There typically isn't a "magical store" that anyone can walk into, but as the PCs rise in power, they meet more powerful NPCs that can be of service.
My arguments rehashed over the thread over a dozen times:
- Restricting the basic tools of the trade = saying "Please optimize your martial characters as hard as possible, because you won't survive otherwise."
I have seen this happen time and again in 3.x games. One of my friends would run games where magic items were supposed to be scarce. He didn't think that players should have to depend on magic items to be effective. He would hand out a +1 sword to a character at 7th level and think that he was being generous.
Over time we suffered so many set backs and TPK's that we started super optimizing our characters. Which basically resulted in a miniature nuclear arms race at the gaming table. Every new book was scoured for broken feats and spells as soon as it was allowed in game. In response the DM would make the fights even tougher by sending us against much higher cr monsters.
In the end the DM ended up hating our playing habits. We explained to him multiple times that the only way we felt like we could survive was to make characters that were simply very broken. For a while he tried giving out magic items and we stopped optimizing our characters. But unfortunately it didn't last. Eventually he went back to not handing out level appropriate wealth and items. This of course resulted in us feeling useless and another several parties died to being under equipped.
We finally got tired of it all and decided to break his campaign setting. We made the most broken characters we could. I made a Wizard specifically to make magic items for the party. The DM allowed some feats from the netbook of feats. I took a feat that allowed other characters to sacrifice their exp so I could make items without spending my own exp. We ended up trashing his campaign setting. No bad guy was left standing in our wake. He tried to kill us with a cr 49 monster that we ended up killing in 2 rounds at 21st level.
In the end none of us were really happy with what happened. I ended up talking to him about it a few years later to find out why he hated magic items so much. He really just wanted them to be something special. He didn't want fights to be dependent on gear. His biggest issue was that he never studied the math behind the game in depth. By denying our characters the proper gear he basically forced us into a corner. We needed the magic items so that we could hit the monsters properly. Without the right items it was difficult to bypass DR. Our saving throw DC's for spells were to easy for monsters to make. Overall we were just not able to feel like heroes. He finally admitted that he should have given us some kind of alternative to make up for the lack of magic items.
This is why I always use the rules for a game when handing out magic items and treasure. I know what it is like to play a character who always seems sub par due to a lack of the right gear. I don't ever want my players to feel the need to power game to make up for me not keeping the game balanced. I don't need or want a nuclear arms race at my gaming table.
As a side note, many of the power gamers I have known over the years got their start when they were playing in games where magic items were not able to be acquired like normal. This is part of the reason that I don't really dislike power gamers and optimizers. In my experience they are often pushed into it by their DM's and gaming groups.
later,
Rzach
Sure. Go with the limits given in the core rules for city sizes, let the PC making the purchases make a Gather Information ( i.e. Diplomacy ) check to see how long it takes him to find the item, and go with that. I normally give rare items a percentile chance to be available, otherwise they need to be commissioned or the PC's need to go to the next big city.
Having Magic Item - Marts seems a bit inappropiate ( how rich would the owner have to be and how often gets he raided by evil high-level adventurers? ), but the PC's hunting all over a metropolis to find things they want seems fine to me.
Ever seen a mob drop a magic Kukri or Spiked Chain? Or any number of things that aren't "swords" and "bows." No, just let people buy magic items.
I don't get it. Why do everyone insist on making the system something it ISN'T? Golarion is NOT a low magic setting. You have giant vaults of Abadar, guarded by golems and lawful outsiders, trading in the 6 digits, and likely having no problem producing a Battleaxe +2 bane of silly arguments.
You have grand academies that makes Harry Potter's Hogwarts seem mundane. The Acadamae of Korvosa, where graduation is the successful casting of a lv4 spell. The Acadamy of the Grand Arts in Pitax, that provides Irovetti with all the lv6 bards he needs. That academy in Absalom, that even breaks the mold of wizards enough to give an archetype. Not to mention the genie binders, the air mages, etc etc, and the fact that the game has SIX full caster classes, not counting summoners, bards, alchemists, rangers and paladins, who all do magic and can craft.
WHY OH WHY must the most trivial stuff be so rare?
And note, I am not saying "Sell the holy avenger at the local vendor in the village of Middleofnowhere, LOL!", for those with comprehension problems or the intention of being, as CoDzilla likes to say "intentionally obtuse".
Ever seen a mob drop a magic Kukri or Spiked Chain? Or any number of things that aren't "swords" and "bows." No, just let people buy magic items.
Funnily enough both "dropped" in the AP I am running currently. ^^
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HAIL!
Hell no.
We run a low magic setting -- magical items are made by characters, we play the characters, we don't get time/circumstances rarely allow for crafting, let alone magical item creation.
Magic has run it's course and made naughty with the land, items are relics of the past. Wannabe wizards rarely encounter spell books or scrolls, those with said spellbooks/scrolls horde their knowledge lest it falls into the wrong hands.
Giving a 'friend' a fireball spell is akin to arming them with a rocket launcher. You better hope they're a good friend and that they know how best to use a rocket launcher... flesh to stone/SoS are an even riskier prospect.
Keep in mind this is a world where magic *was* once bought and sold as a commodity and things came to their inevitable big-red-button conclusion.
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Does it make casters more powerful? Eventually, yes - but you'd hope a well played caster would ultimately be so.
However, It does curb the number of casters dramatically - the world is much more 'martial' and while many will argue a caster should dominate martial characters, during the lower levels life is much riskier for a caster, where 'winning' an encounter is still much less than a sure thing.
..and the folklore/collective awareness of magic and it's dangers is high (impart due to the history of the world and also as a result of the dominate/only mages guild 'helpfully' informing the plebians on what's what in the world of casters - DO YOUR NATION PROUD = BURN A WITCH
So, folk know that wizard = spellbook = GOLD!1! and will try and nab it, with many friends in support, ideally when said wizard is sleeping. Likewise, strange cat/toad = familiar! STAMP/STAB/Randsome etc.
We sunder magic items as well. It's a sign the guy/gal/misc really hates you or is scared shnitlees...
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The main 'mages guild' is a quasi-religious institution that wishes to control all casting/casters/magic, *because* casters can and do become so powerful given the right environment.
Mages are branded and spells are tightly controlled.
Sorcerers did/do cause all kinds of madness because anyone from any walk-o-life can be one (noble, commoner, nutter etc) -- and are appropriately treated with fear and, ultimately hunted down and destroyed.
Of course, some slip through the ole net and these are NPC's/PCs that quickly become the focus of powerful folk who want to monopolize power and/or not see their kingdom reduced to ash/taffy.
Currently, the mages guild/dominate quasi-religion is 'breeding' divine sorcerers (oracles) in a bid to remove clerics from play because we can't have these 'gods' giving any 'ole pleb divine power/magics, can we?
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So, really, the campaign world is built in a reflection of 'how would a world react/develop if magic was/is such a lethal, world-shaping force?'
BE GOOD
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we don't get time/circumstances rarely allow for crafting, let alone magical item creation.
Keep in mind that by Pathfinder RAW, if a spellcaster has enough down time in a day to regain spells, they have enough time to get a chunk of magic item crafting done.
I see why they did that, but it really does kind of force the "I'll just keep my players too busy to make magic items" school of GMing to suck it up or houserule it.
Sure. Go with the limits given in the core rules for city sizes, let the PC making the purchases make a Gather Information ( i.e. Diplomacy ) check to see how long it takes him to find the item, and go with that. I normally give rare items a percentile chance to be available, otherwise they need to be commissioned or the PC's need to go to the next big city.
Having Magic Item - Marts seems a bit inappropiate ( how rich would the owner have to be and how often gets he raided by evil high-level adventurers? ), but the PC's hunting all over a metropolis to find things they want seems fine to me.
I use a similar methode.
If they can't find what they want, they can look around for someone to craft one for them, but it may take time to have the crafting fit into the crafter's schedule.
Looking for specific items can also let bad guys or information brokers know your strengths and weaknesses.
To crib a post I made on another site:
Remember that magic is the technology in this system. For the "magic mart" to not exist then how will low level items; scrolls and potions being the most obvious as several caster classes get the ability to make them as part of their 1st level abilities; not be available in the bazaars/ temples/ stores of cities? Also why would traditional tribal witches/ alchemist (both can have brew potion at lvl 1) not make "juju drinks" to give out to heal their tribal members?
In real life there is a certain amount of technology available to us with little to no effort (think about all the things you can buy at a pharmacy, Best Buy, or Target, or car dealership), some items are more difficult to acquire may require some minor approvals (shotguns/handguns, some construction materials, importing certain vehicles),some are very difficult to acquire and require special difficult to acquire dispensations (class C firearms: full auto weapons, explosives, farm chemicals that can be weaponized, space worthy vessels).
Items like potions of cure light wounds, everlasting torches, scrolls of mage armor, etc. may not be what you are getting at here and if so I apologize. I can certainly see not being able to buy a holy avenger at a market stall so I guess what I am getting at is at what caster level required to make an object will they not be commonly found? How do the governing bodies in the area limit access to these items, if at all? Additionally, if you really mean no magic items can be purchased what are you swapping out for those classes that get item creation feats at 1-2nd level to prohibit players from setting up magic mart monopolies on their own?
We view a lot like buying a car....
In a small town you cant buy one, maybe if you are lucky a guy could have a beat up and well used ford pinto he is selling ( ie: a single used +1 sword, maybe a potion)
In a large town/ small city there is probably a dealership where you can buy simple, new, domestic cars..mostly sedans and trucks. ( ie: you can buy standard +1 or +2 arms and equipment, possibly special order something uncommon but low end.)
Major Metropolitan area/ Large cities and regional capitals. You can get your pick of most major makes and models..BMW, Jaguar etc... ( ie: up to plus three and equivalent is on the shelf and up to plus 5 in total bonuses could be commitioned if you are willing to wait a few weeks.)
The largest city in the world/ capitals of nations/ New York. You can get a Lambo, Ferrari etc... ( ie: there is one shop in the largest city in the world where you can get your hands on anything short of an artifact...now it may have to be made, or it might not have been obtained legally, and you have to know where to find this place to begin with...but with the kind of money you are spending, you dont care about that right? )
Yes, but with conditions. I use the PF core rules as a base guideline. But the availability may simply be someone capable of making the item is available and the PCs must commission it. I'm pretty content with them buying potions and moderate level scrolls without worrying about availability.
Yes, with caveats.
If I'm going for a magic is scarce feel then most of the big six items are replaced by intrinsic bonuses. That way actual magic items feel really special.
Otherwise consumables and low cost utility items are freely available given the default wealth restrictions.
High end scrolls and permanent magic items require legwork, big big cities might have arcana dealers that specialize in procuring magic items but for the most part it's about commissioning a magic item from a hedge wizard.
Purchasing an item is almost always done in trade or using some form of magical unobtainium. Merchants rarely deal with the vast sums of money involved for the real high end items. That means providing service to the crafter and likely rare components (unobtainium, reagents, etc).
I'm also pretty rigid about the caster level required to craft items. High end items normally require high end casters to make them and for the most part those guys are both rare and busy. They are typically reluctant to spend a couple of weeks crafting a high end magic item for someone they don't know and whose interests don't match their own.
There are plenty of opportunities to gain and upgrade the big six magic items and this gives plenty of stuff to do during downtime so it works out okay.
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Having a non-market economy (such as a restrictive GM) is simply non-realistic. Even in ancient times someone in Rome could buy silk from the Orient. This started in 329BC, far before the setting for DnD. You may have to charter a caravan, travel the silk road, hire guards, and spend a fortune, but you could. Hence the price of the magic item is already adjusted accordingly.
Stop and think how much money is 50,000gp really? It is enough to bring a super-rare item from far away. Money is the limiting factor. I would have a really hard time beleiving you couldn't buy anything available aside from artifacts from almost anywhere. If anyone can buy it, then everyone can buy it (by paying that person a cut to transport it to them).
The rules for buying/selling magic items seem about right to me. Magic items are valuable therefore it makes sense some npcs will buy and sell them.
Having a non-market economy (such as a restrictive GM) is simply non-realistic. Even in ancient times someone in Rome could buy silk from the Orient. This started in 329BC, far before the setting for DnD. You may have to charter a caravan, travel the silk road, hire guards, and spend a fortune, but you could. Hence the price of the magic item is already adjusted accordingly.
Stop and think how much money is 50,000gp really? It is enough to bring a super-rare item from far away. Money is the limiting factor. I would have a really hard time beleiving you couldn't buy anything available aside from artifacts from almost anywhere. If anyone can buy it, then everyone can buy it (by paying that person a cut to transport it to them).
50,000 GP is 500,000 SP in other words enough money to pay for nearly 1400 unskilled laborers for a full year ;)
And that's not even enough money for a really high end item which is likely somewhere in the 150k gp+ range.
The simple fact of the matter is that unless you incorporate some sort of alternate economic system that handles magic items the amount of gear a high end party walks around with is in excess of the revenues of an entire kingdom.
That's why barter/trade of magic items and some sort of unobtainium that's useful for powering crafting is a nice addition to the game. You can have two economies going simultaneously: the pig farmer silver economy and a magical virtual economy. You still use GPs to measure the unobtainium but in a sense it's fuzzy money it only really exists as a game balance element.
Uh... of course I do? There's an economy for everything. Sometimes the sellers/buyers are churches, or aristocrats, or mage's guilds, or thief's guilds, or the state. Why wouldn't I? Especially in Pathfinder, where item creation feats don't come with an XP cost.
Do you not let your players buy weapons? shields? ladders?
I understand running campaigns where you can't buy magic items due to it being a low-magic campaign, but starting a thread like you're SHOCKED that something in the rules and makes for basic economics seems a little weird to me.
We view a lot like buying a car....
I prefer to think of buying a (powerful) magic item like buying a Picasso. Could I buy a Picasso, if I had enough money? Probably, although it might be tough or impossible to buy a particular Picasso, and it might be easier to steal it. At any rate, it's more complicated than just heading down to the ol' Picasso-Mart.
We view a lot like buying a car....I prefer to think of buying a (powerful) magic item like buying a Picasso.
Define "powerful."
Define "powerful."
Why? I'm not your GM.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Yes and no.
Potions and scrolls are readily available at the temples/wizard's guilds based on town/city size .
Any other magic item cannot be purchased, but can be commissioned for crafting by the appropriate party (wizard, cleric, blacksmith, etc.). We do not have "magic item shops" or "magic item vendors". However, you can pay to have something made for you if you visit the right place and contact the right people - although our players rarely do this.
Typically, our players don't purchase magic items other than potions and scrolls anyway. They rely on our DMs (me and another player in our group) to provide what they want/need as part of the adventures we run.
As a DM, I commonly add or revise magic items listed in published adventures to match what our players want for their characters. Honestly, though, most adventures as written provide the magic items necessary for PCs to attain their objective. It's been very rare in my experience to have to add in a magic item to "balance" a party's effectiveness against high level threats. More often than not, I'm changing a magic Long Sword to a magic Bastard Sword to make the item more useful for a PC rather than adding anything that wasn't already present in the adventure as written.
Experience has shown that this is a viable tactic for our gaming group, and has never hampered our ability to overcome high level challenges in published adventures in any edition of the game (1e, 2e, 3.0/3.5, or PFRPG). As such, my group has never felt a need to have magic shops/vendors as part of our campaigns.
YMMV, of course.
A simple Yes/No is good, but comments and advice are appreciated :)
Absolutely and resoundingly "NO".
Define "powerful."Why? I'm not your GM.
You made the damn statement. Are you just arbitrarily throwing around words?
Why you need "Ye Olde Magick Shoppe" or a work on the part of the DM to correct game design for good sense - in Rise of the Runelords we have 64k gp worth of magic Ogre hooks
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Maybe I'm just a bit old-fashioned in this regard, but I'd rather have a weapon that I feel my character earned. Plus, it makes a better story to say "The orc captain cleaved Clem's head right off with a greatsword made of shining blackness! And then he turned to me...we fought hard, and both got in many a good cut, but ultimately I stabbed him through the heart and claimed the Obsidian Razor for myself!" Saying "I found it on Sword aisle 12B at Magi-Market, on the obsidian vorpal greatsword shelf" just doesn't have quite the same epic feel.
Look at the iconics. The biggest, baddest sword of the bunch: Amiri's Large Bastard Sword. Made even more badass by the fact that there's a cool story behind why she uses it. Valeros? I can't even remember what type of sword he uses...a longsword I think?
consumables can be found at "curio shops" were certain spell casters have to buy their components, so they can also get potions, scrolls etc.
1st level wizards can make scrolls so they shouldnt be too uncommon.
If a party has a certain amount of magical gear they dont want (a slew of +1 shields for example) I have made available something like +1 chainmail that they wanted instead. They sell the shields and get enough to but the chain and some potions.
If they havent found anything comparable to +2 full plate, they cant just go buy it (it ruins the discovery).
I dont have a problem with parties being "undermagic'd" it encourages the casters to keep the spells on their lists that characters need when those items arent around. I feel it make them more useful rather than just a party full of damage and healing spells.
Back in the 1e days you needed a certain "plus" on a magic weapon to effect a certain level or creature. Im glad thats gone. All a party needs is some silver, maybe some adamantite, whatever, they can find that stuff for the right price in the right city.
It also makes monks and magic weapon spells etc more useful if everyone in the party doesnt necessarily have a magic weapon.
In the party we are in now. The magus has a +1 keen falcata (found it), there as some magic arrows floating around (found), a couple +1 scimitars (found), a few +1 shields (found) a bunch of potions (purchased with funds from sold found magic items no one wanted)
a +2 cloak or resistance (purchased), +1 chain shirt (purchased) no magical bows or crossbows (just havent found any)
there is a +1 spear and a +1 mace (found) and a few rings and amulets that have been found. and a +1 shatter spike bastard sword (found)
I might add this is a 7th level party, and the best thing in the entire group is the PC's own abilities.
In fact the Magus is probably the best followed by the witch and then the ranger/barb/oracle/rage prophet.
the inquisitor/alchemist hasnt come into her own yet because her split class is killing her, but she will get cool soon.
There will be things we will have a heck of a time killing later on.
But no one is supposed to beat everything.
We have a much better time playing when the magic items are rarer and we need to think instead of stomp.
And the items that are needed, sometimes need to be quested for, and then come back to defeat that baddy we narrowly escaped from.
I don't see Kthulhu's point. Even at looked at through the "Super Role-player!" lens. Why should the magic items be the important part of a character? Why isn't it the characters themselves?
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Saying "I found it on Sword aisle 12B at Magi-Market, on the obsidian vorpal greatsword shelf" just doesn't have quite the same epic feel.Which is probably why no one actually does that.
Just for future reference (like, when you get back and I'm GMing), look at my quick sketch of how I do it and tell me if that's palatable for you. It's a bit more role play, but I think it keeps things where they need to be. And can provide tons of adventure hooks (a la the current Cadogan romp).
You made the damn statement. Are you just arbitrarily throwing around words?Define "powerful."Why? I'm not your GM.
Powerful, it's definition will largely depend on the nature of campaign and world. In other words, it will depend largely on the DM. I think hogarth made an excellent choice in leaving it vague, and that your choice of words and tone in your reply is both unreasonable and offensively phrased.
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Just for future reference (like, when you get back and I'm GMing), look at my quick sketch of how I do it and tell me if that's palatable for you. It's a bit more role play, but I think it keeps things where they need to be. And can provide tons of adventure hooks (a la the current Cadogan romp).
I don't see it as a problem. It's fairly similar to how I handle it in Shackled City. There is a retired sorceress who runs a shop, but only has simple items. However, she has a network of connections to get other things through purchase or commission. This network naturally has limitations.
I don't get it. Why do everyone insist on making the system something it ISN'T? Golarion is NOT a low magic setting.
Afraid your entire post is based on a faulty assumption. You're assuming everyone who runs PF plays Golarion. That's not even close to being true, and especially is not true for people who are limiting magic item availability, which is almost always a home brew game setting.
Saying "I found it on Sword aisle 12B at Magi-Market, on the obsidian vorpal greatsword shelf" just doesn't have quite the same epic feel.Which is probably why no one actually does that.
I would agree with that the term "magic mart" gets bandied about as the term for the economy/trade in magic gear. In games I play in if you are buying magic items you may go to a blacksmith, temple, local wizard, druid's circle, etc. In Internet Shorthand you went to the "magic mart" in RP terms you found someone who had on hand/was willing to make/grant use of, what you were looking for.
Powerful, it's definition will largely depend on the nature of campaign and world. In other words, it will depend largely on the DM. I think hogarth made an excellent choice in leaving it vague, and that your choice of words and tone in your reply is both unreasonable and offensively phrased.You made the damn statement. Are you just arbitrarily throwing around words?Define "powerful."Why? I'm not your GM.
He made a statement about a personal opinion. He obviously had a definition of "powerful" in mind when making said statement. The relevant question is, what is "powerful?" Is there a caster level cutoff?
There are tons of excellent painters in the world on par with and better than Picasso that live in total obscurity. So obviously, if we are going to be realistic, you should be able to pick up really "powerful" magic items from any bum within a bike-ride of a hippy commune.
There is a retired sorceress who runs a shop, but only has simple items.
DEFINE "SIMPLE"!!!!
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I don't see it as a problem. It's fairly similar to how I handle it in Shackled City. There is a retired sorceress who runs a shop, but only has simple items. However, she has a network of connections to get other things through purchase or commission. This network naturally has limitations.
Just for future reference (like, when you get back and I'm GMing), look at my quick sketch of how I do it and tell me if that's palatable for you. It's a bit more role play, but I think it keeps things where they need to be. And can provide tons of adventure hooks (a la the current Cadogan romp).
I do some of that, some "gotta go see the sage" if it's a powerful item (and I mean flavor-wise, like a named sword or suit of armor or something worth questing for, I actually expect wizards to make their own staves and wands and stuff), some "questionably obtained" items, etc. Sometimes you can luck out and find a noble who is losing his holdings and in need of quick cash.
But then, I also make sure the BBEGs and their lieutenants have sufficient gear to handle the "boring" big six type stuff.
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I don't get it. Why do everyone insist on making the system something it ISN'T? Golarion is NOT a low magic setting.Afraid your entire post is based on a faulty assumption. You're assuming everyone who runs PF plays Golarion. That's not even close to being true, and especially is not true for people who are limiting magic item availability, which is almost always a home brew game setting.
Fine. Let's make a correct statement. Pathfinder, like 3.5 before it, is not a low magic system. The game is designed under the impression that the majority of players more or less regularly get static bonuses at defined intervals that increase their stats by a defined amount.
Sure, you CAN play a low magic game, but you would have to bestow upon your players bonuses to keep them up to speed with game progression.
There is a retired sorceress who runs a shop, but only has simple items.DEFINE "SIMPLE"!!!!
So we can assume that the comparison of a "Picasso" to a "powerful magic item" was baseless and meaningless? Alrighty then. Anyone can buy magic anywhere!
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I'm in the "Yes, with caveats and conditions" group.
I like magic to be rare and wonderful, so I often give the impression to my players that there are no magic items for sale - certainly there are no "magic item shops". However, there is stuff around and they can find it if they look.
Common consumables are easy: potions, mostly. Since I like to keep arcane spellcasters on a bit of a leash, scrolls are actually quite hard to find for sale, since spellcasters in my campaign are a jealous lot and don't like competition - selling scrolls is like giving away their spells. Still, if a player really wants a particular thing, he'll eventually find it - I just make them work for it in terms of Roleplay and waiting. Funnily enough, a wand would be easier to obtain in my campaign than a scroll of the spell that the wand casts. Healing potions are dead common and can be bought in any town that has at least one alchemist, hedge wizard, or priest working there. Healing magic in general is easier to get than anything else.
Anything that is greater than "+2", however, is going to be specialty market stuff - it most likely won't be in a shop somewhere, it'll probably be in use by someone or something. This stuff is too valuable to be sitting on a shelf in a store - if it's not in use it'll be in someone's private collection or a venerated relic in a temple or something.
Of course, I also run a campaign that assumes that the PCs are exceptional heroes once they get to about 5th level, so they might have more wealth, power, and influence than a similar party in a more typical campaign setting.
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Yes, there is a magic shop - but it only has very, very common items. Low-level scrolls of spells that the shop owner already has in his spellbook. Perhaps a junior mage's entire book, charred on the outside, but still mostly legible. Potions, too, but some are quite old and might have side effects.
Now if you want to buy GOOD magic, you'll need to have it made to order. Some players really love the idea of taking their same old broadsword they found at level one and adding power to it. Others don't see it as worth the time, or don't imagine living long enough to return to the city, or can't abide elves enough to discuss pricing with them - that sort of thing.
In short, 'yes with caveats and hidden costs' - just like everything else in the twisted, dangerous worlds I tend to depict.
:D
Yes and no.
Magic, at least at the lower levels, is relatively common in my world. NPCs can do magic. Each hamlet probably has at least one adept who probably spends his day poking the well to keep the water clean (he's paid well).
Items made from magic are useful. People unable to work magic who have the means would be willing to purchase these items will do so, because they are useful. Rich people will buy useless/overly expensive magic items because they can, just like rich people who live a ways from me used to buy Hummers because they can.
Furthermore, some rare, powerful people may make magic items for their own personal use (for example, PCs and powerful, significant NPCs). While these may not be made for the market, eventually these rare powerful people, in the nature of the world, may get raided by zealous bandits, adventurers, dragons looking to boost their hoard, etc. And in the cycle of looting, eventually some of these items will end up on the market, legitimate or black, as they get traded for other useful items and/or wealth.
Therefore, there are magic item shops in my world. They tend to be in highly populated areas.
However, the magic item shops are limited by common sense and whatever vague sense of society and economics that I have.
- No one item shop will ever have every magic item ever (I often pick a few specific items they will carry that makes sense, and randomly generate a few more)
- A magic item shop owner may be restricted by the government in what items they may be allowed to sell (with violations set to be punished by the local Emperor's Mage Legion, etc.).
- Most items available will be low level (spell level 1-3, more or less), with powerful items only available circumstantially and/or in very large metropolitan areas (the city with the Wizard's Academy has tons of magic items for sale, as apprentices sell off their practice goods to pay for tuition; the town of isolationist folk suspicious of magic because of a past bad history with an ancient sorcerer will likely carry little more than healing items for emergencies, if anything).
I will note that a good amount of equipment my players use are treasure they found or items they themselves created; most purchased equipment tends to be utilitarian in nature (common spell scrolls, healing items, materials for their own crafting, etc.)
The "Magic Mart" I hear about as far as I can tell seems to be a false construction of Website arguments about how to play the game, or people used to playing video games (where even the "Magic Mart" usually doesn't fully exist).