Blue Dragon

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Skaz wrote:
Durinor wrote:

Yeah, we've looked into that sort of thing. I can't imagine the time it would take to learn that with six different shaped dice and finding the sweet spot on every surface he rolls on. Thick stacks of paper, hard back books, hardwood tables, plastic tables, metal tables, tables with a playmat on it. If he consistently rolled on only one surface type, I'd be concerned, but every different surface will affect the die roll differently. And when he's throwing the dice and they bounce from tabletop to paper stack to playmat, it would take Rain Man to have that figured out.

It takes about 5 minutes to learn how to throw a d20 to increase your odds of getting a 20 to about a 1 in 6 chance. The surface your die lands on has only a little bit of affect on the outcome. The trick is which number is on top of the die when you launch it and the amount of spin you impart. One of my old GM's showed me how to manipulate dice rolls. In less than five minutes our whole table was able to get 20's pretty consistently. Learning how to do that has helped me notice which players are honest at my tables and which are not. Some players may not be aware they are manipulating the dice. They just know that they have a lucky way of rolling.

Anyways without being there it is hard to see if there is actually any dice manipulation going on. I would suggest that he roll up a caster that focuses on blasting. If that is not an option then as a DM just ignore every other attack he does. That should bring him down to about the rest of the parties effectiveness. If the party starts to catch up with his ability then just adjust it back to normal. Just don't tell him that you are doing this.

Try rolling the dice the way he does and see if you start getting the same results. Pay attention to details like if he always starts with the die in the 20 position before he rolls. Dice manipulation is a tricky skill to learn and a bit imprecise but it can be done. Casinos actually watch for people who roll well to see if they are using a repeatable technique for getting their numbers. Some people may not know they are even doing this.

Can I get an email with the total cost of all the pathfinders minis I have suspended? If possible with the August release price included as well?

I updated my card info Friday and it says the order is pending but it hasn't shown up in my bank account charges yet. The funds are there so it can be processed at anytime.

First, I am sorry that I have not been in contact with you. Second I would like my pathfinder order # 2579920 to be put on hold until the end of this month. I will send payment on July 26th for it.

Next my Pathfinders battle subscription has been suspended. If I understand this properly that means that the products have been being put aside for me until I can purchase them. I will have payed off my hospital bills in September and will be able to begin paying off the Pathfinders Battles Subscriptions. I plan to purchase each one individually starting with the earliest one if that is ok.

Thank you for your patience,

Actually, instead of cancelling the subscription, would it be possible to have a hold placed on the subscription until Friday, Aug 17th instead?

I want to cancel my upcoming subscription order for the rise of the runelords minis. I will resubscribe for the shattered star release.

Thank you,

Thank you.

I finally managed to go through my order that arrived on Thursday, Feb 2. I noticed on the website that it lists a Holiday card as being sent with my order. I cannot find this card in any of the packages. I have double checked all of the boxes to make sure I am not missing it.

Is it possible for it to be sent with my February Subscription shipment? Thank you.

Stefan Hill wrote:

As the OP I would like to remind people that, whatever my personal feeling in Magic-Item Shops, I am applying the rules in PF RAW. I figured I can't be accused of being an unfair GM then.

Someone complained that when they arrived new in town X and asked the local inn keeper for the location ubiquitous Magic-Item Shop. The inn keep did so, and the player walked up on day one in town and said I'll buy Item-Y. Item-Y was not within the town budget. The store keeper says (after the GM randomly rolls the other non-budget items in the town), "No kind Sir we don't stock that level of quality item". Grumble went the player.

"What about Item-Z?" said the player - in budget of the town. "Let me look." says the store keeper. GM tells the player to choose a number between 1 and 4 - then roll a d4, if you get that number it IS NOT in stock. The player rolls the dice and... Stupid system grumbles the player.

The store keeper then says "Sorry not in stock, but I can may be get you one." "When?" says the interested player. I look as GM at the surrounding towns, roll some d4's and decide the closest available item of that type and the travel time. The store keeper replies "about 2 and half weeks."

"Screw you" the player replies.

Close certain with the GM sighing and the other players rolling their eye-balls at the player.

I am unreasonable?

That is not unreasonable. You did offer a way for the character to get the item they were interested in. You might want to talk to the player and explain that not everything can be handed to them on a moments notice. Some things take time to get.

I personally have no issue with the magic item shop. I think the original poster is doing things just fine for right now.

I can see how this may be problem later on in his game though. As players progress they should get access to better items. I have played in many games where the DM would not want to hand out powerful magic items in 3.x systems. When a 15th level party is fighting with only +2 magic items it begins to take a toll on the players. You begin to notice that you are missing more frequently and that fights take longer to complete. Total party wipes become more common and whole campaigns die because the DM didn't take into account that our characters couldn't defeat the monsters he had us encounter.

I know why our DM did this. He didn't like the idea of a "high fantasy" game. He thought that a gritty more realistic setting was better. Problem was that his setting wasn't any more realistic than any other fantasy setting. Worse his ideas didn't mesh with the rules properly and he was unwilling to adapt to the system changes. I had many a discussion with him about this. In the end he only had one campaign that lasted to epic levels without a total party kill. This only happened because I made the decision to play a item crafting mage with a feat that allowed exp transfer for item creation. We save all of our gold for many game sessions until we were around 11th level or so and then I began the great crafting session. After several in game months our characters were armed to the teeth with everything we needed. We played the campaign through to completion but it left the DM feeling upset that we had done this.

There is a lesson to be learned there. D&D, indeed any roleplaying game, is a group activity. The desires of the DM must compromise with the desires of the players. To do anything else is to risk having one side get upset. This can effect friendships for years to come. Both sides put alot of time and effort into the game. To ignore one sides wants is highly unfair and it can easily lead to resentment.

Now that I have shared that here are some ideas that may be of help.

1) as someone else said early have the players be able to request a magic item from a merchant who can send for it from a larger city.

2) Allow the players to find weak versions of items that they want that level up at certain points. A good way to balance this is to use the wizards greater magic weapon spell as a guide. When the spell improves its bonus then the weapon should upgrade as well. I also use that spell as a guide to determine if a player is being reasonable when saying they need a certain plus for their character.

3) instead of giving out +1 or +2 magic items give the players an inherent magic bonus to attacks and damage as per the greater magic weapon spell. Magic weapons instead can just have special properties like flaming, ghost touch, or vorpal for example. Do the same with armor. Hand out wonderous items as needed. This should keep the game relatively balanced.

4) bite the bullet and do a full implementation of magic shops in the game. There is a good article somewhere about crafting skills and money gained by commoners that really made me realize that it wasn't just players who were using these shops. Commoners can easily make enough to pay for a few spells or a potion or two every year. If they save for a couple of years they can afford to purchase items that they can use in their profession or trade. This does make magic a bit more common and way less special but it doesn't make it any less magical.

Anyways I hope this helps in some ways,

edit for small corrections

Should I be worried if I don't see an authorization against my account yet?

I noticed that my order history doesn't list the November Pathfinder issue that I received. It is shown in my subscription as the last issue shipped though.

Also my Pathfinder Battles subscription shows that it is set to ship with my next subscription but it only shows the pathfinder holiday card there. It doesn't show the next issue of Pathfinder in that list.

So far the only page that looks accurate is my subscription page. Is this normal or is there a glitch that is not showing my order history correctly?

I have gotten my finances figured out and settled. Please unsuspend my subscription and mini order. Thank you for being patient with me.

Can I have a hold placed on my Pathfinder subscription and pending orders until the 11th of November? I have had an unexpected medical expense pop up which has impacted my finances.

If you read the fine print you will find that you are all under a very strict NDA when it comes to discussing anything that you may know or not know about me.

Please cancel my Pathfinder Roleplaying Game subscription.

I have no interest in getting the beginners box set at this time. I will resubscribe for the bestiary. Thank you.

I thought the movie was ok. Neither great nor really bad. A solid B-.

I like to imagine them as being utterly silent. The only noise they cause is when they hit something and then I imagine it sounds very similar to the sound of a fist hitting flesh.

I imagine elemental spells have some sort of sound to them depending on the element involved. Electric attacks have a slight buzz or crackle to them, fire sizzles, ice sounds like it is cracking apart. But force effects I imagine as being utterly silent.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Can anything other than a Vorpal Weapon bypass the Jabberwocks DR? The description of the the monster says that only a vorpal weapon can bypass its DR but a paladins smite ability is supposed to bypass any DR...

CrackedOzy wrote:
Dungeon Bash did the job in 3.5, though it requires some small retooling for Pathfinder. I've done some work in that regard, but they are of little good without the core DB stuff.

I've looked at that and it seems very interesting. Would you be willing to share the pathfinder stuff you have made for it?

By replacement I don't mean a floating eye creature but instead a creature that can negate magic and also can unleash multiple ray attacks a round?

Edit: Also not a spellcaster class.

I really like these tables. If you have anymore of them please share them.

Thank you for your time.

I am looking for some random dungeon making tables or single player (DMless) rules. Does anyone know of any that may exist?

I think the price point is just about right for these. It's just the random factor that I am unhappy with. I understand that this is the only way we are going to get plastic pre-painted miniatures so I am going to purchase this. I just wish it was coming out sooner as I am getting really tired of breaking old mage knight minis to make minis for my games.

Anyways come December I will be having a blast with these I am sure.

Just want to say thank you to Paizo. Even if they are random, I am really glad that there are new plastic minis being made.

Actually if you released a complete set I would buy it over a case. Unless you announce something like that though I will continue to save to preorder a case.

Hope these last until Friday. Can't afford it until then.

While I will purchase these minis, I am still very upset over the random mini distribution model you will use. I worry that the monsters I really need will all be rare. I had this problem with the D&D mini lines. I can easily get goblins, orcs, skeletons, and other common low level monsters. What I want is to be able to easily and cheaply buy groups of the demons, devils, angels, and dragons. In the D&D mini lines these figures would sell for high prices. I really can't afford to purchase enough of these figures to use them properly. I could probably get by with only having singles of the more powerful monsters but many of the mid level creatures are often fought in groups. Having a single Gelgulon is not really useful. I need 4 to 6 of them for a decent encounter. Same goes for other outsiders. Not to mention that I also need some of these monsters for use by the players for their summons.

Hopefully some of the non random packs will be about things like demons and devils.

Anyways the sculpts look great but I am worried about the final quality. I still remember the horrendous quality of the figs for some of their other games like Mage Knight.

EDIT: Please do not make a miniatures game to go with these figures. I don't want some other game inflating the aftermarket cost of these minis. If you do decide to make such a game perhaps it should be it's own line with separate mini sets that can use the same molds but different bases or maybe special markings to tell the differences between the games.

And as I am sitting here I happened to look over and see my 2e AD&D books and remembered something even cooler than Diablo. How about an updated Council of Wyrms style book? That would be pure awesome.

It would be cool if it was a Licensed Diablo 3 PnP game that is completely compatible with the Pathfinder rules. I liked the WotC versions but I think it could have been handled better. So far the best video game conversion to PnP that I have seen was the Everquest d20 series that White Wolf put out.

Have they ever given a write up for Tar-Baphon in any module or book? I am interested in his stats and abilities. I am pretty sure my players are going to want to confront him eventually. I was rather disappointed that they didn't give his stats in the last book of the AP.

I really want to see either a mega dungeon or an A.P. where a Dragon is the big threat. If they go with the Dragon idea then I would like to see something along the lines of Second Darkness in scope. Say a dragon that wants to bring about the rise of an age of dragons or something similar.

Is this a common phenomenon? In my experience, across many editions of the game, this is relatively common. Fast advancement is part of the games history. Older editions used to give bonus exp if you had a high stat in your primary ability.

In a current 2cnd edition game I am playing in I went from level 1 to level 4 in 3 sessions of the game. Random encounters, bonus exp from high stats, and gaining exp for casting spells to overcome problems all added up to advance my character very rapidly. I am currently over half way to level 5 and see no reason why my character won't be able to get to level 6 fairly soon. In game time this took all of about 3 days of adventuring separated by about a week of travel time between each day.

I used to make custom exp tables back in the early 90's to deal with fast leveling. Then I read about a martial arts program in japan that took a person from having no experience to being a black belt in under a year. After doing some research about military training, martial arts, and learning in general I became comfortable with the leveling pace of the game. Basically I learned that if a person spends all of their spare time training and focusing on a single thing then they will show continuous improvement as long as they keep focused.

I have found that most d&d games slow down once the characters start getting past level 10. Encounters tend to take longer and characters tend to have more down time between encounters. This is especially true if the characters have to make their own equipment. In a 3.0 game I played a wizard who crafted all of the parties magic items. We had a feat that the dm allowed that enabled me to take the exp for items from other characters so we all stayed at the same basic level. By the time I had finished outfitting the party we had spent 9 months building items in game time.

The biggest issue with leveling time in game is providing characters with things to do other than adventuring. Characters will level rapidly as long as they keep having encounters with monsters. If they have other things to do that consume time then they may not level as quickly in game time. In most games I find that trivial things like buying a house or developing a plot of land can take a large amount of time. Any time a character uses a library to research something it should take a substantial amount of time as well. If player have to negotiate with an enemy or other npc then make sure that they spend time getting ready and preparing. Most negotiations in real life take time to begin and require patience to deal with as they tend to be slow with both sides having to take pauses to examine the offer. Exploring should take time as well. In old d&d games it took longer when you weren't in combat to explore a dungeon. It was assumed that characters were examining the areas in detail as they traveled.

If you really want to slow down the in game speed at which the characters are leveling my best advice would be to recommend talking to your players and seeing what suggestions they have.

I vote for the Amazing Engine series of games. In particular I enjoyed Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega and The Once and Future King settings.

I noticed that part 6 of the Carrion Crown AP is due to ship in late July. Can you tell me approximately when my account will be charged for this volume so I can adjust my finances?

Thank you,

I would buy an adventure compilation of RotRL.

I want epic rules.

Dire Mongoose wrote:
Rzach wrote:
I am thinking about changing haste back to how it functioned in 3.0.
Keep in mind that this doesn't just help blasters; it's helpful to casters period across the board. Honestly, I don't think they need the help.

I thought about that after I wrote it. 3.0 haste may be overkill. How about this instead. All direct damage type spells have their dice per level doubled. So fireball will do 2d6 damage per caster level. Or I could have blaster spells add the characters main casting stat as damage bonus. Or maybe both.

Thoughts on these ideas?

Edit: Or how about a metamagic feat that doubles the elemental damage dice of a spell with an elemental damage descriptor. Say for +1 spell slot. Same effect as a fireball that does 2d6 damage per caster level. And it keeps people from trying to double up on other more dangerous kinds of damage like inflicting negative levels.

2cnd edit: I guess the feat would have to apply only to area affect spells since otherwise it makes shocking grasp way to strong for the magus.

Reading all of this has got me to thinking about making a couple of house rules to help out blasters. I am thinking about changing haste back to how it functioned in 3.0. I am also thinking about changing the meta-magic rules to allow multiple empowers to stack on the same spell. I may also allow the spells from the Diablo II: Diablerie book for 3.0 D&D. This should make blasting a very viable path to take.

With these modifications a 5th levels wizard is going to be casting two spells a round. Later this will move to 3 spells a round with the quicken meta-magic feat. With proper use of Heighten spell to up save DC's, Elemental Spell (Cold), and the Rime spell feat blasters should become pretty useful to the party.

Any thoughts about this?

The island fortress of Arudora sounds interesting. Where can I find out more about it? I am not familiar with it.

I thought about Geb. In the end it really doesn't match how I see my character being. There are too many people in Geb. My character wants to find or make a place where he can be away from people when he isn't adventuring. He wants a sanctuary where he can practice his art in solitude.

Are there any other places? I thought about making a kingdom in the Darklands but I don't know much about them.

I am currently playing in a AD&D 2e campaign set in Golarion. I am playing a Necromancer specialist with the Undead Master Kit. So far the game has been an absolute blast to play.

I need a place to set up a permanent keep. Any suggestions? I am going to have a fairly large group of extraplanar beings and undead around. Currently I am favoring an island fortress of some kind. But I am open to any good suggestions.

I have purchased the Inner Sea World Guide but I didn't see much information in there about places that would seem suitable. I am interested in places where there would not be many local people to bother me in my studies. Has there been any information about any of the islands in the inner sea region?

Placed my preorder for a set of these figs. I would love for this to become a mainstream line with support for the bestiary monsters. I have always wanted a way to buy painted minis that are affordable and not randomized. The randomization of the DDM line is what turned me away from it. I don't like trying to buy minis and having to pay more for a certain figure because it is less common.

If Paizo does turn this into an ongoing line I would love to see support for the complete bestiary lineup. Another thing I have always disliked about minis is the lack of support for certain monsters. While I can always substitute another figure for the monster it just never feels right. I want to be able to place a monster down that actually looks like the picture in the book.

Now something I just thought of that could help is having a set of larger size bases to place minis in to represent larger size versions of them. So you could take a player mini and place it in a larger base to represent the change in size when under various spell effects. You could also use larger bases to represent increases in size from huge to gargantuan or colossal. So you could release a dragon mini in the huge scale and use a click in larger base to represent the increase in size for a gargantuan version of it. The D&D tokens in the monster vault have something similar for upgrading monster sizes.

Anyways no matter what you decide on I am really glad to have some new minis that actually look nice.

PS: Just to put it into perspective, this weekend I spent $200+ buying up old Mage Knight minis for use in my games. I am very, very willing to spend good amounts of money if I can get minis that have no rarity level. I spend a ton on minis. If you declare a minis line I will definitely spend my money purchasing them.

What I hate the most is when I have to drop $50+ for a cheap plastic mini that has a high rarity level. I don't mind spending the money on a gargantuan dragon figure, but I find it ridiculous that a mini for a succubi can command a $35 dollar price tag just because it is rare. Rarity systems offend my sensibilities when it comes to minis.

noretoc wrote:

Here is a thought that a lor of people will hate me for. Maybe the reason we have so many optimizers in pathfinder, is because of the existence of people who do not optimize. There are the optimizers that can't handle it in other games. They tried WOW and gurps, etc (Just grabbing game names, not saying anything about the games) and they found they lacked the skill to be badass. But when they come to pathfinder, and find themselves at a table with people who like playing bards with fluff spells they suddenly realize in comparison that they are epic. So now they stay and discuss the best way to get the most out of every rule and combo, knowing that as long as they play with people who are not interested with that stuff, they will always be "best" at the table.

I like to think most people are interested in taking their fellow human beings goals, feeling and personalities into consideration, but each day I see that when it comes to most people, this is not true. Most only care about themselves. Don't know why I never equated it to gaming before. It isn't that these optimizers don't KNOW what they are doing to the game... it is that they don't care?

Incoming Rant!

Strange, I have played with many players who optimize their characters and I have never noticed any of them having been bad at optimizing in one game and not another. Indeed the players who optimize, myself included, often are good at optimizing in any system or game.

The only thing I have noticed about optimizing players is that they tend to be really good at the math and logic parts of the game. They all seem to be fairly rational people who look for logical patterns in things they enjoy. They also tend to have these traits in other hobbies. These are the people who will spend all day tweaking the performance of their computer or will spend a hundred hours getting a RC plane into perfect condition.

Overall I feel that to many people bash on optimizing. It is a valid and enjoyable way to play any game that relies on mathematics and logic to function. I believe that the majority of the optimization that occurs in D&D and Pathfinder games is a result of players wanting to be good at what they do. They don't intend to break the game into some unplayable state but instead they wish to be able to play a character that they enjoy and at the same time feel confident that the character has really good odds of surviving.

Here is how I think about it. If you had a job where you had to go into a dangerous place full of armed enemies would you rather have a group of self trained militia members helping you or would you rather have a group of Military Spec Ops helping you? Optimized characters tend to be more like special forces groups in the military. They are highly trained and capable of dealing with tremendous threats. If you really had to face a dragon which would you feel safer receiving help from? I personally would rather have the highly trained special forces helping me out. I would probably even begin to adopt their mentality and training styles to be less of a burden and to increase my own odds of survival. No one with a healthy mindset really wants to die. No one really likes losing either. Optimization helps keep the player from having to lose something they have invested a serious amount of time and effort into.

I also optimize as a DM. If the players are making powerful characters I make sure the fights will provide some challenge to them. I don't aim to kill the players but I do make sure the encounters don't end on the first round. I don't hide this fact from the players either. They know that some fights may be more challenging when they optimize. This helps keep the game fun for everyone involved.

I have never found optimizing to be a bad thing and I have a hard time believing that it is somehow causing harm to the game.

End Rant!

For the OP, if you have a problem with d20 currently then it really is best to take a step back and try something else out. I have burned out on d20 games before. After a while of other systems you can come back and find that the fun is still here. If you really like the Pathfinder adventure paths and d20 modules I have a little alternate non d20 system that I built to allow me to continue to use the d20 adventures and monsters. If you want I can PM you the system I developed.

Anyways I apologize if I have caused any offense in my defense of optimization. I just really hate how it always gets bashed as being some sort of problem. All playing styles are fine as long as you are not cheating.


I would buy an Epic Level book from Paizo. I like the idea of the book having advice on running games from levels 13 on to the epic level cap.

I feel that the game can really slow down once you hit the teen levels. Once you are past level 15 the game can quickly get bogged down in actions that take substantial amounts of real life time to figure out.

In my games I have any characters 14th level or higher calculate combat damage for any attacks ahead of time. I have them figure out all attacks as if the damage dice had rolled 75% of it's max damage. By using this static damage I find that combat speeds up a good bit. Some spells and effects can still slow it down but it is much less cumbersome to deal with high level combat this way.

Anyways I would love to read a chapter of advice on how to speed up the game at high levels. As long as the epic level rules are good I would gladly use them in my game. My current epic rules are essentially a set of house rules that give out special powers once a character is above 20th level. I hated the 3.0 epic book for failing on so many different levels.

Also I would like to mention that if Paizo does make an epic level book that I would like to see Paizo offer support for it in other product lines they make.

Thank you for your time,

Does anyone know any other adventures that are RP heavy?

Jason Beardsley wrote:
I haven't played any personally, but take a look at the Pathfinder Modules here

I have looked them over. I am really looking for advice on which will fit the needs I have. Since I can't read them without buying them I am sort of in a bind. The descriptions sound great but if I buy it and it turns out that 75% is combat then it doesn't help me. I need a lot of character interactions for this next game. Teaching RP is hard work as it is.

I am running a game currently for some friends who have no experience with role playing games. I have ran three sessions for them so far. To make the experience easier for them I had them make themselves as characters.

I am currently looking for a good module for a low level party that has lots of role-playing involved in it. Currently the party is second level. I have been playing a relatively story light game as I introduce basic rules to them and get them familiar with different game mechanics.

The group has expressed interest in playing a couple of sessions that are story dominant. I plan on running them in the Carrion Crown AP when it comes out. I need a small adventure to occupy the next couple of sessions till then. The players are getting better at the game but are still very inexperienced in RP.

So my question is this: Do you all have any advice on which low level published module for Pathfinder has a good self contained story, some combat that is fun, and a good amount of character interactions?

Normally I would spend a couple weeks making an adventure but I want them to keep interested in the game so I need something that is already ready to go. I am open for just about anything at this point. I am to worried about the level of the adventure since I can adjust the encounters to fit the level of the group.

Thanks for your time and help,

Marking in Pathfinder has a couple of problems. First the "tank" classes
don't have the big starting pool of hit points that they would have in 4e. Second, combat
is less movement oriented than 4e combat.

To introduce this style into pathfinder is not impossible though. You simply have to make a couple of design concessions. The first thing we need is to make a mechanic that is capable of making a monster want to attack the fighter instead of the other party members. This effect can't be so powerful that it cripples the monster if it attacks another party member but it also must not be to weak either.

I suggest a couple of combat techniques to make threatening monster effective.

1): Combat Control
This technique allows a fighter to threaten an opponent within reach in melee combat. If an opponent who is within reach attempts to move away from the fighter they provoke an attack of opportunity. If the attack hits then the monster must make a reflex saving throw against a DC equal to half of the damage it recieved or it finds itself unable to move away as the fighter hinders it's ability to move.

2): Combat Challenge
This combat technique allows a fighter to hinder an opponent with in reach of it's melee attacks if it chooses to attack a target other than the fighter. When a monster attacks a target other than the fighter it provokes an attack of opportunity from the fighter using this technique. If the attack hits the monster takes -2 penalty to the attack roll and the attack deals half damage instead of it's normal amount. If the attack has a saving throw then any one targeted by the effect get a +4 bonus to their saving throw attempt. Spellcasters who cast defensively are not subject to this effect as long as they are successful in their check.

A fighter can only use these techniques on a monster within melee reach. The fighter must choose a single target and declare that they are marking the monster as their target. A fighter may only mark a single creature at a time and may never have more than one creature marked at any point. Marking a creature is a free action and a new target may be declared as a free action once per round.

Anyways I hope these help some.

Matthew Morris wrote:

I don't mind ninja as an archtype, or samurai, or thugee for that matter for a rogue built more around killing and gets clerical minor magic instead of arcane.

They have to be called something and if the archtype can fit the concept why not?

I mean Magus doesn't really mean "stabacadabra class" an Archivest doesn't spend all his time catalouging things, Not all spellcasters are 'magicians' not every creature with 'careful claw' has claws, etc.

See I would prefer a more neutral name for the class or to have it become a archetype for the rogue. If it stays as an alternate class then in it's description note that the class can be used to create Thuggee Cultists, Sulsa Operatives, Hashashin Killers, or other mystically empowered assassins or covert operatives as needed in a campaign. Maybe even give some examples of how to refluff the class. Or they could include a few archetypes for the Ninja class to represent other cultures versions of this class.

The Assassin with supernatural abilities is a staple of many different cultures legends. But since the Ninja is the famous version that is what everyone seems to want. No one seems to remember that the Ninja are just one type of such assassin amongst many such legends.

As a sidenote, I don't hate Japan. I am fine with Ninja when I am running an oriental based game. As it stands though this class will see little use in any game I am running unless I remake it with more setting neutral flavor. I can do that. I just wish I didn't have to.

Uriel393 wrote:

I used to play a lot of Rolemaster, and their 'Ninja' was called the Nightblade, a much cooler name, as I see things.

Anyways, Awesome Ninja story from the past...OT WARNING!!!

So, it's 1991, I am running Bushido (Grognards, remember THAT game!?!)

I remember Bushido. I loved that game. I need to see if I can dig up my copy of it. I know I saw those little black books around recently.

And Nightblade does sound cooler than Ninja.

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