| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Distributing items in treasure hoards is one of the key ways for a GM to control game balance. Putting that in the players hands not only upsets balance, but also removes one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game- anticipation of getting something cool.
That is assuming that the player(s) and the GM agree on what is cool.
I have had a GM put in a flavorfull item that he thought was cool and that I didn't (a magic broom to clean up messes, worked twice a day for an hour), which would have wiped out my character's budget and been less usefull that the unseen servant spell. My character ended up buying some enchanting gear to make his own item, as he couldn't find anything that he found suitable and/or cool.
I think you should be able to buy magic items somewhere but you may have to travel to a city if they run out of stock.
Another restriction may be scrolls of evil spells in A really LG society that I can see okay buying this may get the merchant in trouble. Selling a scroll of animate dead in a town run by a paladin is not a good idea. Items opposite societies alignment may not be the smartest thing to sell.
Making a store that only sells magic items on an walmart is stupid.
IF you have the store carry some magic weapons they got then it is at the blacksmith. Okay you have to walk a few miles at low levels to find sometihng.
Having an store run by arcane wizard that sells scrolls old maps to treasure potions and wands is okay.
Buying divine scrolls at a temple is okay or a wand.
The blacksmith having a few weapons around. Heck a plot hook you could have the local blacksmith refer you to another town where there is that item and it could be a plot hook.
A magic item chest may also be a good idea if you do sell magic items as they are valueable so you can not just sneak a wand of cure light wounds into your pocket.
Distributing items in treasure hoards is one of the key ways for a GM to control game balance. Putting that in the players hands not only upsets balance, but also removes one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game- anticipation of getting something cool. I find that the fun of the game isn't in the reward itself, but in the quest for the reward.
We do that in one of my games. "Anticipating" getting something cool is not terribly enjoyable. Getting something cool is enjoyable. Getting something useful that improves your ability to play your character and role is FAR more enjoyable. I don't care HOW I get it, but the old-school method of "lol, hope your search check is good - ahh, you found a Ring of Water Walking, too bad, better luck next time" is NOT entertaining.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've noticed repeatedly comments in various threads by players and the game developers that buying magical items is common place.
Now, Pathfinder Society ASIDE (please), how many GMs out there really have players buying magical items like most of us buy appliances at the local store?
A simple Yes/No is good, but comments and advice are appreciated :)
Thanks!
Ken
Kinda.
Merchants hawking "magical" wares are a dime a dozen in my world. However, my players quickly realize that anything they can buy is likely fake or cursed.
I roll some percentile dice. A roll of 1 to 50 means the item is fake. A roll of 51 to 98 means it is cursed somehow (I pick or roll for a random cursed property). A roll of 99 means that it mostly works as advertised but with a drawback (like being stolen and sought after by its owner). If they come up 00, I let the item they are being a real, uncursed, no strings attached item.
After 3 occurrences of this, I would stop buying things in your game and just buy socks to fill with gold to beat people to death with.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Trailblazer went into the mathematics of the big six and whether they are actually required at any given level to face CR appropriate foes.
Their conclusion was that while the big six items are by far the most efficient uses of WBL with the exception of the save boosting items (typically cloaks of resistance) the main characters could operate without their big six items being at the optimal level.
This was assuming a 70%+ success rate on PC tasks for less than optimal PCs. The only area where PC success rate was really problematic was Save % vs CR appropriate Save DCs.
The reasons for this are pretty obvious. If you want the PC casters to succeed 70% of the time vs CR appropriate opposition meaning that the opposition makes their save 30% of the time then a likely consequence of that is that PCs will fail their Saves vs CR appropriate foes nearly 70% of the time unless they boost their percentages with resistance items.
Of course Trailblazer is analyzing 3.x math not Pathfinder math but many of the findings remain relevant. While players might benefit most from consolidating their wealth around the big six, it's not inherently required for the game to work for there to be free reallocation of magic item based wealth.
Distributing items in treasure hoards is one of the key ways for a GM to control game balance. Putting that in the players hands not only upsets balance, but also removes one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game- anticipation of getting something cool.That is assuming that the player(s) and the GM agree on what is cool.
I have had a GM put in a flavorfull item that he thought was cool and that I didn't (a magic broom to clean up messes, worked twice a day for an hour), which would have wiped out my character's budget and been less usefull that the unseen servant spell. My character ended up buying some enchanting gear to make his own item, as he couldn't find anything that he found suitable and/or cool.
That may be a flavorful item but it's just terrible. No one but some one too rich to do their own sweeping but too poor to hire a Hedge Mage to cast Unseen Servant once a day would buy any such item. And only if it cost 100gp.
PS. Where the hell did all these random enemies we keep running into get all of THEIR magic stuff? Can we disguise ourselves as Evil Monsters and go to the "Evildoer-Only Magic Item Emporium?"
That is assuming that the player(s) and the GM agree on what is cool.
I have had a GM put in a flavorfull item that he thought was cool and that I didn't (a magic broom to clean up messes, worked twice a day for an hour), which would have wiped out my character's budget and been less usefull that the unseen servant spell. My character ended up buying some enchanting gear to make his own item, as he couldn't find anything that he found suitable and/or cool.
But that kind of item should be extant its the magic as technology equivilent of a Dyson/Kirby vaccum, the Lamborghini/Zonda of Vaccums. Shopkeepers, sucessful craftsmen, nobility, etc would have these in use. A magic broom that sweeps up can't steal from you (usually).
A magic broom uses the same "cutting edge magic" as a flying carpet. One the vast majority of poeple can afford, the other they cannot. How is this different than the observation that a HEPA Vaccum uses the same "cutting edge technology" as deployed on the space shuttle. One I can buy, one I cannot.
I would like to see an expansion of the 10-1000 GP magic item range with things like this for the mid-high fantasy that a lot of people see the rules using as a base.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I do..to a point. I am always of two minds of it, bc of my old school roots, where magic items had no real creation rules.Yet all magic items had a gp-value attached to them. I'm not sure about OD&D (74) but every edition I have after that lists gp value for magic items.
Until 3rd edition, magic item creation depended on a single high level Mage spell, required a roll to make it work, and caused permanent constitution loss. Also, since the entire rule-set for creating magic items was contained in a single 1/2 page spell description, there really wasn't much detail.
Also, it was kinda dumb that so many magic items even existed. Dwarven Hammer of Throwing? Why would a 15th level non-dwarven mage (dwarves couldn't be mages) make an item that's only usable by dwarven fighters? The usual explanation for magic items in dungeons was bygone ages of high magic when items were left scattered around, and lost long ago. It was a kind of, "We want you to find magic swords in dungeons, never mind how they got there," attitude. Which isn't so strange when you keep in mind that D&D was originally a miniatures game made by wargamers.
If you aren't going to be following the rules as written let the players know ahead of time. Is this really that bizarre a concept?
Absolutely! I like running games with various setting or rule changes, but I'm careful to always tell the players (usually in writing) about all of the changes before they've made characters.
Rule #1 = It's a game, do what's fun.Rule #1.5 = The rules are public information, not locked in the vault of the GM brain until they can be sprung on the players like a trap.
I know this is bringing unhelpful RL into things but... I can see that one +1 Ogre Hook might be worth something to someone but surely the other 15 would be next to worthless?Ok, great, then that constitutes a loss of 15-30 thousand gold pieces in lost party wealth. How do you plan to cover it?
On reflection it might be, just as many seem to rule that it takes a while to find an item to buy, it could also take a while to sell some items. such as 16 ogre hooks.
PS. Where the hell did all these random enemies we keep running into get all of THEIR magic stuff? Can we disguise ourselves as Evil Monsters and go to the "Evildoer-Only Magic Item Emporium?"
Yes, but the only things they sell there are +1 Ogre Hooks.
(I now want to run a game in which the PCs continually find, loot, sell, and then encounter some new villain with the same bizarre magic item. Like a silver Trident of Fish Command.)
PS. Where the hell did all these random enemies we keep running into get all of THEIR magic stuff? Can we disguise ourselves as Evil Monsters and go to the "Evildoer-Only Magic Item Emporium?"
They must be the ones buying the ogre hooks the PCs don't want...
;)EDIT: ninja'd by a mongoose
PS. Where the hell did all these random enemies we keep running into get all of THEIR magic stuff? Can we disguise ourselves as Evil Monsters and go to the "Evildoer-Only Magic Item Emporium?"Yes, but the only things they sell there are +1 Ogre Hooks.
(I now want to run a game in which the PCs continually find, loot, sell, and then encounter some new villain with the same bizarre magic item. Like a silver Trident of Fish Command.)
Would that be the one run by the stupid rich Kobolds from the 3.5 races of the dragon? Is that how they got so rich?
But that kind of item should be extant its the magic as technology equivilent of a Dyson/Kirby vaccum, the Lamborghini/Zonda of Vaccums. Shopkeepers, sucessful craftsmen, nobility, etc would have these in use. A magic broom that sweeps up can't steal from you (usually).
A magic broom uses the same "cutting edge magic" as a flying carpet. One the vast majority of poeple can afford, the other they cannot. How is this different than the observation that a HEPA Vaccum uses the same "cutting edge technology" as deployed on the space shuttle. One I can buy, one I cannot.
I would like to see an expansion of the 10-1000 GP magic item range with things like this for the mid-high fantasy that a lot of people see the rules using as a base.
I don't have a problem with a magic broom that cleans up existing in the campaign setting - I would probably get one when I reached a much higher level. I have a problem when the GM thinks it's cool and that I now have a magic item personalized for me, so I should feel good about the game and everything, rather than fustrated.
PS. Where the hell did all these random enemies we keep running into get all of THEIR magic stuff? Can we disguise ourselves as Evil Monsters and go to the "Evildoer-Only Magic Item Emporium?"
Good point. IF the bad guys have it then they need to get it somewhere. The blacksmith might not have that much quantity. If the entire party has three longsword users the local blacksmith may only have 1 +1 longsword. He may also sell a +1 of another weapon or you may have to go to another town.
I want more cheap magic items as well. Stuff that does minor wonderous things.
|
I don't see Kthulhu's point. Even at looked at through the "Super Role-player!" lens. Why should the magic items be the important part of a character? Why isn't it the characters themselves?Who said it's the important part? It's an important part as much as Anduril is a part of Aragorn, Excalibur is part of Arthur, the Atlantean sword is a part of Conan (in the movie), and a whole host of guys in fantasy and myth with particular items they got somewhere other than the Magic Mart on 15th and Vine.
Thank you. Exactly how I would have responded, had I been at my computer a couple of hours ago.
I have had a GM put in a flavorfull item that he thought was cool and that I didn't (a magic broom to clean up messes, worked twice a day for an hour), which would have wiped out my character's budget and been less usefull that the unseen servant spell. My character ended up buying some enchanting gear to make his own item, as he couldn't find anything that he found suitable and/or cool.
Your budget? Does your group make PCs buy the magic items from the loot pile or divide items up by market price? (and if that's the case, I'd have to say the problem isn't the DM's idea of an interesting item - it's the players')
I think I can safely say that an item like this is the sort of thing my groups would consider party treasure and not counted against any single PC's shares even if one PC did end up taking it home with them.
I don't have a problem with a magic broom that cleans up existing in the campaign setting - I would probably get one when I reached a much higher level. I have a problem when the GM thinks it's cool and that I now have a magic item personalized for me, so I should feel good about the game and everything, rather than fustrated.
I wouldn't disagree with you on that at all. I was, poorly I suppose, trying to point out that there shoud be some NPC driven marketability for magic items as well. For a PC on the move thats a waste of space other than to bring it to town and sell it to some shopkeeper or housewife. Not a great reward for daring-do.
On reflection it might be, just as many seem to rule that it takes a while to find an item to buy, it could also take a while to sell some items. such as 16 ogre hooks.I know this is bringing unhelpful RL into things but... I can see that one +1 Ogre Hook might be worth something to someone but surely the other 15 would be next to worthless?Ok, great, then that constitutes a loss of 15-30 thousand gold pieces in lost party wealth. How do you plan to cover it?
Given this is an AP, you (1) don't have the "time" and (2) there is no necessity for the time to actually occur. That stuff's boring and contributes nothing to the game.
I agree.Not tailored random treasure = NO (imho)
Tailored to your PC? Or tailored to challenges that lie ahead? If you make your item liquidation choices based on the former, you might end up in trouble if the DM were distributing them based on the latter.
|
I have a hybrid approach for something in-between low-magic dictator control-freak GMs and capitalist walmart high-magic GMs:
Think of the Q branch in James Bond. Bond has a small amount of personal resources that he can buy equipment to span campaigns. Also, Q-branch gives him mission-specific items that only work in one campaign (or a series) but must be returned or are used up at the end.
Such an approach may work if GMs are concerned about unbalanced parties during their leveling.
Given this is an AP, you (1) don't have the "time" and (2) there is no necessity for the time to actually occur. That stuff's boring and contributes nothing to the game.On reflection it might be, just as many seem to rule that it takes a while to find an item to buy, it could also take a while to sell some items. such as 16 ogre hooks.I know this is bringing unhelpful RL into things but... I can see that one +1 Ogre Hook might be worth something to someone but surely the other 15 would be next to worthless?Ok, great, then that constitutes a loss of 15-30 thousand gold pieces in lost party wealth. How do you plan to cover it?
Well all I can say in that case is... enjoy your ogre hooks.
I've noticed repeatedly comments in various threads by players and the game developers that buying magical items is common place.
Now, Pathfinder Society ASIDE (please), how many GMs out there really have players buying magical items like most of us buy appliances at the local store?
A simple Yes/No is good, but comments and advice are appreciated :)
Thanks!
Ken
Yes, but it's generally limited to more common items. That way finding a treasure hoard is still exciting for the players as they know there could be much more rare and exotic fare.
|
|
Rule #1.5 = The rules are public information, not locked in the vault of the GM brain until they can be sprung on the players like a trap.
Just so we're clear that there needs to be some non-rules locked in the vault of the GM brain until they can be sprung on the players like a trap.
Players need an adversary to run their game, or it gets less fun in a hurry. You certainly are working together towards a common goal, like playing a game of basketball (with your kid brother). But you're not necessarily going to miss every basket on purpose.
I'm fine with the rules not being in the GM's arsenal, mostly. Just so long as there is indeed still an arsenal...
Well all I can say in that case is... enjoy your ogre hooks.Given this is an AP, you (1) don't have the "time" and (2) there is no necessity for the time to actually occur. That stuff's boring and contributes nothing to the game.On reflection it might be, just as many seem to rule that it takes a while to find an item to buy, it could also take a while to sell some items. such as 16 ogre hooks.I know this is bringing unhelpful RL into things but... I can see that one +1 Ogre Hook might be worth something to someone but surely the other 15 would be next to worthless?Ok, great, then that constitutes a loss of 15-30 thousand gold pieces in lost party wealth. How do you plan to cover it?
Presumably we can use them to string single-minded DMs.
Rule #1.5 = The rules are public information, not locked in the vault of the GM brain until they can be sprung on the players like a trap.Just so we're clear that there needs to be some non-rules locked in the vault of the GM brain until they can be sprung on the players like a trap.
Players need an adversary to run their game, or it gets less fun in a hurry. You certainly are working together towards a common goal, like playing a game of basketball (with your kid brother). But you're not necessarily going to miss every basket on purpose.
I'm fine with the rules not being in the GM's arsenal, mostly. Just so long as there is indeed still an arsenal...
I don't see anywhere that you explained your assertion that the GM should withhold rules of the game from the players.
I've noticed repeatedly comments in various threads by players and the game developers that buying magical items is common place.
Now, Pathfinder Society ASIDE (please), how many GMs out there really have players buying magical items like most of us buy appliances at the local store?
A simple Yes/No is good, but comments and advice are appreciated :)
Thanks!
Ken
Kinda.
Merchants hawking "magical" wares are a dime a dozen in my world. However, my players quickly realize that anything they can buy is likely fake or cursed.
I roll some percentile dice. A roll of 1 to 50 means the item is fake. A roll of 51 to 98 means it is cursed somehow (I pick or roll for a random cursed property). A roll of 99 means that it mostly works as advertised but with a drawback (like being stolen and sought after by its owner). If they come up 00, I let the item they are being a real, uncursed, no strings attached item.
Surely anybody stupid enough to try and sell fake magic items to a wizard is going to end up with a stave shoved so far where the sun don't shine they'll be coughing up magic missiles?
Your budget? Does your group make PCs buy the magic items from the loot pile or divide items up by market price? (and if that's the case, I'd have to say the problem isn't the DM's idea of an interesting item - it's the players')
I think I can safely say that an item like this is the sort of thing my groups would consider party treasure and not counted against any single PC's shares even if one PC did end up taking it home with them.
My group is fairly relaxed about splitting group treasure. Normally, if someone needs something from the party pool, they simply get it. If two or more want the item, it get's discussed back and forth a bit, and usually goes to the PC that is shortest on magic or has the greater need for it.
In this case, the items that no one wanted and no futur use was seen, were sold off, and people were trying to locate items that would be beneficial to them. The GM came up with a few items with unique flavors for some, but bombed on others.
My group usually hangs on to magical weapons, even when better ones are obtained, as they make really nice gifts to NPCs, to help cement their loyalty, to bribe them, to indicate how important they are to the group, etc..
Presumably we can use them to string single-minded DMs.
:)
|
|
I don't see anywhere that you explained your assertion that the GM should withhold rules of the game from the players.
I'm fine with the rules not being in the GM's arsenal, mostly. Just so long as there is indeed still an arsenal...
Well, at the risk of crossing up posts, I'm not sure I originally asserted such a thing. But for the purposes of argument, I certainly can:
The Monster Manual (et al) should not be in player hands during play. Those stats, abilities, etc certainly are 'rules', but if the character has that knowledge they can easily access it with a check.
This is especially important for new monsters and/or fresh characters. A player should never be cheating to the point of knowing what all the silver bullets are unless the character's resources were actually spent gaining access to that information.
I guess if you construe it that way it makes SOME sense.
Though springing stuff like "Hey let's go to the store and barter all this crap we found for magic items-" "Whoah, wait a minute there guys, you can't buy magic items in my game!" on players is still inexcusable.
|
|
I guess if you construe it that way it makes SOME sense.
Though springing stuff like "Hey let's go to the store and barter all this crap we found for magic items-" "Whoah, wait a minute there guys, you can't buy magic items in my game!" on players is still inexcusable.
Worthy of an apology, but hardly inexcusable. The guy (or gal) running the game gets special privileges commensurate to the amount of extra effort required to make the thing happen. It doesn't necessarily matter what the particular thing is, but in general 'making judgement calls' falls well within the DM's realm. They should certainly apologize, but things like, "I'm sorry Mark, but I can't allow you to use The PowerCreepers Guide Third Edition any more" or "you can't find that item within the city" are prerogative. Players are encouraged to discuss such matters, with especially an eye towards fairness, but likewise could easily offer to run their own game under their own judgement.
Call it 'old school' if you wish, but I still see the goal as to tell a heroic story along the lines of a book or movie. If the protagonist could simply buy all the solutions to the problems at hand, it probably wouldn't be very entertaining.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
This is really one of those instances where any decision is fine, as long as it's an informed decision. If you don't provide a perfectly liquid market for magic items because you don't find it realistic, your players will encounter the problems identified above - they will have a bunch of items they can't use (ogre hooks) or that they outgrow (+1 weapons) and can't sell, and you risk deflating their expected effectiveness by not letting them take the "necessary" items (e.g., a handful of the cheap AC buffers that use different slots and stat buffing items).
If you run a game where non-optimized charaters aren't required, or if you seed your adventures with appropriate items/opportunities to acquire items the players want (e.g. - "I don't have a Belt of Strength, but Louis did. Too bad he was killed by those giants..."), or if (god forbid) you and your players enjoy a game where you get random items you can't sell and either build characters around them ("guess I'll take exotic weapon proficiency and monkey grip so I can use this b@*$+in' +4 vorpal ogre hook"), then none of this is a problem.
It's really that simple. There isn't a right or wrong answer here. There's player and GM preference, the effect of changing an assumption of the core rules (non-liquidity = reduced effectiveness), and understanding how to accomodate (or manipulate) these factors.
There isn't a right or wrong answer here. There's player and GM preference, the effect of changing an assumption of the core rules (non-liquidity = reduced effectiveness), and understanding how to accomodate (or manipulate) these factors.
To both of those points, I'd say that there are wrong answers, and that you allude to them in the next sentence: making a decision as a GM and not really understanding the fallout or implications of it, and having those implications push the game in directions the GM doesn't actually want.
I'll use a 2E campaign I played in as an example in hopes of avoiding a derail here. Back in 2E, the equivalent of DR was absolute. If a vrock "needed +3 weapons to hit" and all you had were +1 and +2 weapons, you literally could not hurt it with any kind of physical attack no matter what. In this particular campaign, that came up a lot -- the DM wouldn't let much treasure go out, much less be bought, and we frequently found ourselves fighting monsters that only spells could harm because we had never seen a magic weapon powerful enough to hurt them. As characters gradually died off and were replaced by new characters, we ended up with an all-wizard + 1 cleric party, something the DM found very frustrating for a number of reasons.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
To both of those points, I'd say that there are wrong answers, and that you allude to them in the next sentence: making a decision as a GM and not really understanding the fallout or implications of it, and having those implications push the game in directions the GM doesn't actually want.
Okay, fair enough. If you're making an uninformed decision and then you dislike the outcome, that's probably a wrong answer. The comment was more directed at the concept that the game is (not) broken without a perfectly liquid market. The liquidity of the market is secondary, the primary question is what effect do magic items have on the game and what effect do the players and DMs want them to have on the game. There isn't a single correct answer to that question any more than there's a single correct answer to the question of "What's your favorite flavor of ice cream" (which has wrong answers, at least from the perspective of wanting to get ice cream that you like).
Actually, now that I think about it, there is a single correct answer to that question. It is chocolate.
At the same time, I recognize that there is a problem with the entire magic item system and how gold is spent in the bigger picture, and would like to get back to making some vague houserules about it.I'm a big fan of just getting rid of the +1 in front of magic sword and having the bonus depend on your level. Then you don't need to get rid of it as you level.I've been toying with this idea for a while. Have you play-tested at all?
In terms of material related DR, I'm conflicted. I like the simplicity of magic trumps all DR, but sometimes the flavor really appeals.Dragonsong wrote:
Follow-up question: in this set up do you still use Pathfinder's +X overcomes DR/material, damage type(s).
No, I think not, but the DR/material would be condensed down considerably. Probably adamantine, iron, and silver covering everything.
I tried in one of my games. It worked out ok only you had to keep in mind wealthy by level as the player no long had to pay to upgrade their weapons.
.
..
...
....
.....
Actually, now that I think about it, there is a single correct answer to that question. It is chocolate.
Definitely yes! Coming back to the OP`s question and stop breaking up things into chocolate and cold fusion:
Yes, let them be rewarded by spending their hard earned and exhaustively carried trade bars into whatever gear they like to buy in the appropriate places.
Then wait and see what`s in it for them...
.
..
...
....
.....
Mint chocolate chip. Your argument is invalid.
|
They buy items.
In a large city, there is a 75% chance that a minor item is available quickly & easily. If not, they can order it or the character can try again, looking for less-known shops.
Medium items are less likely to be around, but you can get the item eventually, even if you have to order it to be made.
Major items are much less likely to be around and usually have to be made to order.
I usually roll percentile & adjust based on what they are asking for, how their diplomacy/knowledge local is, and where they are.
BTW: pathfinder society is much more stringent on being able to buy stuff than I am. Not being able to buy a potion of cure moderate in a city like Absalom without the help of your sponsor faction? That's not my perception of what Absalom or Ketapesh are like.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've noticed repeatedly comments in various threads by players and the game developers that buying magical items is common place.
Now, Pathfinder Society ASIDE (please), how many GMs out there really have players buying magical items like most of us buy appliances at the local store?
A simple Yes/No is good, but comments and advice are appreciated :)
Thanks!
Ken
Kinda.
Merchants hawking "magical" wares are a dime a dozen in my world. However, my players quickly realize that anything they can buy is likely fake or cursed.
I roll some percentile dice. A roll of 1 to 50 means the item is fake. A roll of 51 to 98 means it is cursed somehow (I pick or roll for a random cursed property). A roll of 99 means that it mostly works as advertised but with a drawback (like being stolen and sought after by its owner). If they come up 00, I let the item they are being a real, uncursed, no strings attached item.
If my dm did this to me, the first time i'd laugh and kill the hell out of that merchant, the second time i'd be pissed/but would deal, the third time i'd make it my goal to destroy the campaign, and do my best to never let him dm again. if i have detect magic i would know that it's a fake and i'd enjoy spreading those cursed items around, just to mess with the dm.
I think if I were to completely ban all magical trade in my game I would realy have to implement one of two things to not feel like a massive jerk to my players.
The first has been mentioned and that is tailoring the drops to the PC's. I have done this a lot in the past even if there was a trade system. Admitedly it is much easier if you are running home brew, but its just cool for a player if the big bad that they scraped and clawed to defeat results in their new favorite weapon.
The other is something I have toyed with for years but never found a rules system that satisfied me properly enough to completely remove buying and selling, and that is some sort of addition to the crafting mechanic that allows a player to deconstruct a magic item for components on their next crafted item. Take those 25 Ogre hooks and reduce them to the materials and raw magic that they started as and forge a +2 Ogre Bane Earthbreaker imbued with a hatred for the vile beasts it once served! The problem with that is balance...does it save you time? Money? how many +1 Ogre hooks must one deconstruct to make a new +1 hammer? etc...
I have to call BS on the concept that if you can't buy magic items you can't handle CR appropriate encounters. Allowing PC's to completely custom tailor their items (especially for characters created at higher levels) results in overpowered characters. Yes, you are supposed to have X gp worth of gear, but that doesn't mean you are supposed to have exactly the items you want. A quick look at the miscellaneous magic items table clearly shows that item pricing isn't equal to usefulness. Furthermore, assuming Joe Schmo, the 6 Int Fighter is going to even know about the amulet of Natural Armor, and the Sucker Bane Greatsword is laughable.
Using the guideline in the book is OK, but once the party gets access to teleport, they can jetset all over the know world, and get whatever they want in a few days.
I generally allow characters to freely buy items up to 10% of wealth by level. Most other items are special quest items, or difficult to come by.
Distributing items in treasure hoards is one of the key ways for a GM to control game balance. Putting that in the players hands not only upsets balance, but also removes one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game- anticipation of getting something cool. I find that the fun of the game isn't in the reward itself, but in the quest for the reward.
my point exactly..you need to ask the person running the game "can I have this" instead of saying "I have this because the book says I can". Its not so much a house rule, as much as common sense.
I don't see Kthulhu's point. Even at looked at through the "Super Role-player!" lens. Why should the magic items be the important part of a character? Why isn't it the characters themselves?Who said it's the important part? It's an important part as much as Anduril is a part of Aragorn, Excalibur is part of Arthur, the Atlantean sword is a part of Conan (in the movie), and a whole host of guys in fantasy and myth with particular items they got somewhere other than the Magic Mart on 15th and Vine.
That said, I think there's room for some stuff bought as equipment from the locals. But they are not (nor should they be) anywhere near as interesting as the stuff found, won, or given as gifts/rewards for specific accomplishments or storylines.
I love this. That was the vibe in 1e..items were special. There was no break down on how to make them, and if there was an item cost, it was there bc at some point a player would try to sell something. Sure you could by low powered stuff in most decent sized towns, and maybe if you had a truly skilled smith, he would have a +1 sword hanging in his shop. The over all flavor was that most magic items were rare, and created by people that were very powerful, or simply "diffrent". I get players making their own items, and thats ok..but sometimes it does have a factory/Walmart feel to it, instead of something you pour your characters heart and soul into.