The problem here, as has been the case for a long time. Is there is no master extra dimensional spaces inside each other rule. Is a add-on inside the two items descriptions.
Ene result is haversack doesn't have this so doesn't interact wit neither rule.
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It is a special effect of those two items only. Possibly just a "traditional" holdover from 3.5 that was thought a "fun" thing in the way that rust monsters are "fun"...
Anything else and it gets messy quickly.
Note that the popular create pit series of spells create extra dimensional spaces. So if Handy Haversacks were subject to this then there would be a lot of really annoyed adventurers with ex-handy haversacks. Though locking them out of their handy haversacks by dropping them in a create pit spell looks quite a promising tactic (you cannot access an extra dimensional space while inside another extra-dimensional space).
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In my group, we usually go with "what is the spirit of the rule?" As such, we've decided that the idea is so you can't have extra-dimensional space filled up with extra-dimensional space. We have therefore ruled that any item containing extra-dimensional space cannot be placed inside any other item containing extra-dimensional space. Therefore, you cannot put a bag of holding inside another bag of holding, a haversack, a portable hole, or any combination thereof.
My groups have traditionally ruled that you can do so, but that none of the inner bags function. You can open them but inside is just a normal bag. Once you take them out they function again and you can once again remove your stuff.
Actually saw something on PFSRD today when looking up something else, apparenly one dimensional bag wont work inside another dimensional space. lets see if i can find it .
Here
Extradimensional Spaces
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.
think that answers the OP's question.
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It is a special effect of those two items only. Possibly just a "traditional" holdover from 3.5 that was thought a "fun" thing in the way that rust monsters are "fun"...
Anything else and it gets messy quickly.
Note that the popular create pit series of spells create extra dimensional spaces. So if Handy Haversacks were subject to this then there would be a lot of really annoyed adventurers with ex-handy haversacks. Though locking them out of their handy haversacks by dropping them in a create pit spell looks quite a promising tactic (you cannot access an extra dimensional space while inside another extra-dimensional space).
Er, it's a traditional holdover from 1st Ed, actually.
-Uriel
In The Cleaves, when you bring an extra dimensional space into a dead magic zone, it snaps shut till you bring it out. The chest of holding, has the carnivorous option. If you put any extra dimensional space into it adds that space to its own making that item non magical. Yes it's homebrew. If it's not RAW, everything kind of is.
Note that the popular create pit series of spells create extra dimensional spaces. So if Handy Haversacks were subject to this then there would be a lot of really annoyed adventurers with ex-handy haversacks. Though locking them out of their handy haversacks by dropping them in a create pit spell looks quite a promising tactic (you cannot access an extra dimensional space while inside another extra-dimensional space).
OOOOH! I hadn't thought of that. My players are going to be in for some surprises next session or two, muahahahahahah!
I was thinking if it ever happens again...and I'm pretty sure most of my current players won't try it...that I'd do a KoDT thing and have it open into a Bagwurld.
I'm thinking of adding a special bag of holding to The Cleaves. When it's open sunlight and the sounds of birds spill out. The storage area is the top of a stone tower and there is a forrest below. The storage world has a day and night cycle. Things that get stored sometimes escape and become part of the ecology. There are also rivers, oceans, mountains, ect.
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If I recall correctly, in Classic Treasures Revisted, it is stated that a Handy Haversack is just a variant Bag O' Holding. As such, I've always ruled that it acted the same as a Bag for the purposes of Bag/Hole interaction. Something to keep in mind, though there are two different results --
Bag into hole = both are lost, no boom.
Hole into bag = both destroyed, everything in 10 feet pulled into the Astral Plane.
For any other combination, Mojorat's quote above applies. So (assuming space/weight allowances) you can put a Bag of Holding into a Handy Haversack without a problem... you just can't open the Bag until you pull it completely out of the Haversack. The reverse should also work.
PS -- The create pit idea above is a good point... A nasty trick for the BBEG who knows the PCs are reliant on their Bags/Holes/Haversacks.
Honestly, I've always thought that the "Boom" rule was excessive. I much prefer the idea of one simply not functioning inside the other.
One question that come to my mind though is, what about Kakishon in the Legacy of Fire path? Or inside a genie's bottle?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Honestly, I've always thought that the "Boom" rule was excessive. I much prefer the idea of one simply not functioning inside the other.
One question that come to my mind though is, what about Kakishon in the Legacy of Fire path? Or inside a genie's bottle?
I think the rule applies. *shrug* I don't mind in the sense that the party 'loses' their goodies for an adventure (insert 'never take the spell book from the wizard' whining here).
The maze spell is extradimensional, so does it lock the magic storage devices?
I think the rule applies. *shrug* I don't mind in the sense that the party 'loses' their goodies for an adventure (insert 'never take the spell book from the wizard' whining here).Honestly, I've always thought that the "Boom" rule was excessive. I much prefer the idea of one simply not functioning inside the other.
One question that come to my mind though is, what about Kakishon in the Legacy of Fire path? Or inside a genie's bottle?
I believe Kakishon is a limited demiplane, and thus would allow the normal functioning of extradimensional magic items. A genie's bottle, I don't know, perhaps we need to be more specific. An Efreeti bottle, for instance, is a magical item binding an Efreeti, not an extradimensional space. Insofar as I can tell, the space inside an Efreeti bottle is regular ol' Prime Material space into which an Efreeti has been disassembled at the molecular level and stuffed into (warning: this may drive the Efreeti insane. Ask your Conjurer.). I would be cautious of imputing extradimensional qualities to spaces that are not specifically defined as such.
I don't have a problem with the "no goodies" rules when they apply, I would just be careful about using them. Also, bear in mind that the GM controls access to such things, and should therefore be prepared for when they show up. The regular rules, as spelled out by Mojorat above, do the job just fine, in my ever so humble opinion.
The maze spell is extradimensional, so does it lock the magic storage devices?
Yes. Prepare accordingly.
The maze spell is extradimensional, so does it lock the magic storage devices?Yes. Prepare accordingly."Ah ha! I prepared for this maze. I'll just get that find the path scroll out of my Haversa-"
Well done, sir. Well done.
Greg
Actually saw something on PFSRD today when looking up something else, apparenly one dimensional bag wont work inside another dimensional space. lets see if i can find it .
Here
Extradimensional Spaces
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.
think that answers the OP's question.
Great find
/thread