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Im all for classes having unique abilities that differenciate them from one another. My issues is I would like the game to have one Definded way Arcane magic worked and one difined way Divine magic worked and stick with it. The Vancian system is fine (though I have always favored a mana system over spell prep system.) but if you are saying that the Vancian system is how magic works in this game world then stick with it.
The Magus is practices both martial ability and magical ability but is a master of neither. He is a prepare caster using the established Vancian system as a Wizard does. Yet he can get up in the moring and say you know I really wish I had a spell that does "x" and snap now he does. In an actual world like that wizards would be hunting down Magi and keeping them captive in their dungeons trying to figure out how they developed this amazing ability the defies all of the known laws of magic that arch-wizard have been studying and trying to codify for centuries.If magi are learned casters (they are taught their method of magic through study) then why can wizards not learn this magical ability without having to learn how to fight? Spontaneous spell preparation has nothing to do with swinging a sword, but apparently regular wizards can't learn to do it without learning to swing a sword (ie multi-classing as a magus.)
It a new rule mechanic for a new class ok fine. But it breaks the theme, concept and established magical system of the setting with no explaination of than. The magus is cool and he can do this even though no other arcane casters can that have devoted even more of their lives to unraveling the secrets of magic than the magus ever will.
Long before the Magus came out there was little internal consistency in how magic works in the D&D/Pathfinder world. Just about every class that casts magic does it in a slightly different way from others or has spells which no one else can replicate for some reason. It's all BS. Just roll with the craziness and don't try to impose some sort of logic on magic. No one has ever come out of that hole. It is bottomless.
"Still? Even after your misapprehension about the cost of enhancing your weapon was corrected? What the frak for?"
Reflect still is wobbly with the way it reads, it'll chew points, cool ability but its a one a day, and if you use it, your probably just drained your pool for everything else.
granted you dont get reflection for a while, but at 1/2 lev plus int, at best you'll only have 11 points in the pool.
Reflecting a spell worth reflecting at that level is going to take 6-8 points in one shot.
pretty much form what i see, arcane accuracy and reflection either need to be fixed, or the pool needs more points, i personally favor more points.
1/2 lev +int +3. for example. this would give the 1st lev magus at least 5 points to work with and make a big difference at lower levels, but wouldnt do much damage or unblance things as the class moved up in power.
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I'd rather see the "pool powers" work like Reserve feats from 3.5.
"As long as you have a Magus spell slot of X level or higher available, as a standard action you can..."Any caster already has plenty of bookkeeping to do; a combat arcanist needs to carefully track hp as well, which he'll be losing more of than his pure arcanist friends. No need to add a third bookkeeping tally on top of those. Given their weak BAB and spellcasting compared to an Eldritch Knight at upper levels, it's really not over the top to change 1 or 2/day class features to "at will, until you use your spells."
This is an interesting idea. I was not familiar with the mechanic from 3.5, but it could be an option if for some reason Paizo decides they don't like the pool idea. But as I've stated, I think its a mechanic that will stick around.
Seeing as how I like the arcane pool and think it is infinitely more desirable than burning spell slots that are in extremely high demand I am going to disagree.
False dichotomy; if you'd read any of the thread, you'd have seen a number of other options. For example:
I'd rather see the "pool powers" work like Reserve feats from 3.5.
"As long as you have a Magus spell slot of X level or higher available, as a standard action you can..."
This neither uses an arcane pool nor burns spell slots.
I'd need to revisit reserve feats in Pathfinder, I know I disallowed them in 3.5 under my "you can't take another class's primary class features with a feat" policy.
I don't see how this suggestion at all does that... are you sure "reserve feats" are what you're thinking of?
I always considered the "unlimited use of lesser magical effects" to be the warlock's gimmick, and wasn't happy to see his primary class ability swiped by a handful of feats.
Ah! Gotcha. Given that the warlock was so sub-par that I (and a number of other people) merged it with the sorcerer just to get some playablility out of those classes, I'm not convinced that hijacking the warlock for his lunch money is at all an unreasonable fate for him.
This has, more than a discussion of the Magus, become a post for people to argue what their definition of a type of caster is or isn't or which classes should have what spells. The only reasonable alternative anyone has posted to the pool system is the reserve feat system, which while fun, only caters to those who wish to enhance the Magus' casting abilities. The current arcane pool system allows for you to choose wether to be more martially focused or casty. BTW There ARE options to enhance your AC and weapons through the magus arcana abilities.If you as a caster are having trouble bookkeeping, maybe it's time to play a fighter. EDIT: Once again the Magus is fantastic please do NOT change it. :) Also the BAB of a Magus and EK are not all that off, and besides they are exist side-by-side they are intended to be differant. I prefer the magus approach to a martial/caster character. Maybe its just that I am a melee player at heart that finally has a class that makes him want to cast lol :)
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He wasn't a very big fan of "Scry and die" tactics, and they would often backfire if you tried them, because the bad guys had wizards too.
Very much so, lead sheets in walls, non-detection, and other magics available to BBEG's and anyone who could possibly be a target of some source ALWAYS have those resources available to them in my games.
Hell, even my armies come equipped with a pair of 10th level spellcasters to deal with anything fancy that might come up like a local rebellious druid casting entangle, warp wood and the like. Dispel magic does wonders.
...my DM was pretty clear that if any wizard tried the "15 minute sorcerer trick" of leaving several spells unprepped until later in the day there would be a very high chance that whatever you are hoping to fight might jump you in 10 minutes....
First, that's not a "trick." It's specifically listed as an option in the rules. Second, that seems awfully punitive and "metagamey" for a tactic that is specifically granted to spell casters who memorize their spells. Why not just house rule it away, instead?
For spell reflection.. a workable idea might be a spell craft check to determine the level of the spell cast, then if successful, to burn a spell of your own (minimum level 1), plus 1 point per level (minimum 1) difference between the spells of arcane pool. A failed spellcraft means the reflection costs 1 additional arcane pool point.
So enemy caster casts a level 7 spell, you decide to burn a level 4 spell and spend 3 pool points to make up the difference. If you failed your spellcraft check, you'd have to spend 4 pool points.
This makes use of the pool, and gives a tangible cost to the ability without draining the pool completely in 1 use.
A previous poster mentioned that spell strike and spell combat cannot be used in tandem with vital strike. Why is this? Vital strike is a part of an attack action, as is power attack.
You can use Vital Strike in tandem with Spellstrike provided you deliver the spell with a Standard Attack Action, rather than the free attack allowed by the touch spell.
However, I don't see any advantage to forgoing your free attack just to Vital Strike. Perhaps if you missed the free attack, and are still holding the charge.
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You can use Vital Strike in tandem with Spellstrike provided you deliver the spell with a Standard Attack Action, rather than the free attack allowed by the touch spell.
However, I don't see any advantage to forgoing your free attack just to Vital Strike. Perhaps if you missed the free attack, and are still holding the charge.
That seems as stupidly situational as the feat normally is and thus not worth the time of most PCs.
I'd like to apologize. After re-reading many of the post I wrote in this thread it occurred to me that those comments of mine were asinine. My bad. I spent the whole weekend creating a system to replace the arcane pool. It involved the magus class generating magical pluses to the arms and armor they wielded and allowed them to transfer those bonus' into talents that enhanced their spells or combat abilities. Kind of like incarnum. Ultimately the system is clunky and impossible to gauge without severe playtesting.
Thus, I relent. I may never fully like the arcane pool for thematic reasons, but I cannot create a suitable replacement this late in the game. So in regards to the argument of "please remove arcane pool" I'm out.
Thus, I relent. I may never fully like the arcane pool for thematic reasons, but I cannot create a suitable replacement this late in the game. So in regards to the argument of "please remove arcane pool" I'm out.
It takes a big person to come to such a realization, and an every braver one to admit it in public on the internet -- you have my salute.
In the end I think you have found the main reason arcane pool is so good -- everything else that could replace it is just so much worse!
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I'd like to apologize. After re-reading many of the post I wrote in this thread it occurred to me that those comments of mine were asinine. My bad. I spent the whole weekend creating a system to replace the arcane pool. It involved the magus class generating magical pluses to the arms and armor they wielded and allowed them to transfer those bonus' into talents that enhanced their spells or combat abilities. Kind of like incarnum. Ultimately the system is clunky and impossible to gauge without severe playtesting.
Thus, I relent. I may never fully like the arcane pool for thematic reasons, but I cannot create a suitable replacement this late in the game. So in regards to the argument of "please remove arcane pool" I'm out.
Most folks treat the internet s a place where they can be anonymous douches for life. You did not and I respect the hell out of you for it. I owe you a beer.
Many kudos to Hexcalibur. For those of you having trouble keeping their arcane pool in check, I would suggest what I have done, get an index card, use a pen to make a box for each point you have in your pool, when you use points put an X in the box with a pencil, next time you rest erase the pencil X's and voila your good to go.
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This has, more than a discussion of the Magus, become a post for people to argue what their definition of a type of caster is or isn't or which classes should have what spells. The only reasonable alternative anyone has posted to the pool system is the reserve feat system, which while fun, only caters to those who wish to enhance the Magus' casting abilities. The current arcane pool system allows for you to choose wether to be more martially focused or casty. BTW There ARE options to enhance your AC and weapons through the magus arcana abilities.If you as a caster are having trouble bookkeeping, maybe it's time to play a fighter. EDIT: Once again the Magus is fantastic please do NOT change it. :) Also the BAB of a Magus and EK are not all that off, and besides they are exist side-by-side they are intended to be differant. I prefer the magus approach to a martial/caster character. Maybe its just that I am a melee player at heart that finally has a class that makes him want to cast lol :)
This is exactly how I feel about it. I've really only played martial classes before this, and this made me interested in it. I like the way the mechanics play off each other, I like that he's different.
