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(Last year I compiled a list of things that would instantly disqualify your item. I'm posting them one by one as we approach Round 1 of this year's contest. This is the last of them.)
27. An awesome item may disregard the previous advice.
If you haven't been reading the discussion for each of these advice articles, this one is here to (1) bring this to your attention, and (2) end on a positive note.
All of these "auto-reject advice" threads are just advice from one of the judges. They're not the rules of the contest. It is entirely possible to create a cool, innovative item that goes against one or more of these bits of advice. It's just not easy to do so.
I wrote these posts based on my experience as a designer, developer, and judge for RPG Superstar. That doesn't mean I've seen it all or that I'm the end-all authority on designing wondrous items. And it doesn't mean I can't be proven wrong.
Various iterations of this game have been around for over 30 years, and people keep coming up with new ideas and new twists on old ideas. People have been writing stories for thousands of years, and still keep creating new stories or new twists on old stories. Musicians take obscure songs and perform covers, and the covers become more famous and popular than the originals.
Does your item fall into one of these "auto-reject" categories? Despite that, do you still think it is an awesome item and has a chance of making it into the Top 32? Submit it.
To quote myself in another advice thread: Prove me wrong. I want you to prove me wrong.
Every year, items make it into the Top 32 that you could consider a spell-in-a-can, or an item with a joke name, or a toy. They make it into the Top 32 because despite that flaw, they do something really cool or new. You can add flavor to a spell-in-a-can, you can change the name of a poorly-named item, you can change the shape of a toy--if the concept of the item is cool, it deserves a second look.
Every single one of these 27 advice posts is here to help steer you away from mistakes that could make the judges reject your item. Going against that advice can be risky. But sometimes taking a risk is the way to get noticed, to make progress.
But there's a difference between taking a risk with a category you know is likely to get rejected, and just being lazy by submitting an item that is exactly the sort of thing the judges will auto-reject if they see it. Let's take RPG Superstar Neil's item from two years ago:
Last Leaves of the Autumn Dryad
Aura moderate divination and transmutation; CL 10th
Slot —; Price 53,500 gp; Weight —.
Description
These multicolored leaves retain their vibrant autumn hue regardless of season. Once per day, their possessor may place a single leaf on the tongue to assume tree shape for up to 8 hours. This transformation incorporates the remaining leaves into the tree, but all other equipment changes with the owner.
While in tree form, the owner may release the leaves upon the wind, consciously controlling them as a scrying device. The leaves fly overland up to 10 miles per hour, but use the combat movement, defenses, and special abilities of a locust swarm with plant traits, regeneration 5, and vulnerability to fire.
The leaves may also form a three-dimensional representation of the owner’s face to communicate. They speak with a dry rustle, but otherwise convey the owner’s natural expressions. Fey descendants or those with wild empathy may cast ghost sound, speak with animals or speak with plants through the connection.
The leaves must return before the owner resumes normal shape or lose their enchantment.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, arcane eye, tree shape, whispering wind; Cost 26,750 gp
At its simplest form, this item is a spell-in-a-can, and a Swiss army knife. But Neil brought more to it than its simplest form. Here's that same item in its simplest form:
Leaves of the Scrying Tree
Aura moderate divination and transmutation; CL 10th
Slot —; Price 53,500 gp; Weight —.
Description
This a bag of leaves. Once per day, the bearer can use tree shape.
In tree form, the user can send a patch of leaves out as a remote sensor like an arcane eye. The user can communicate through the patch of leaves as if using whispering wind.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, arcane eye, tree shape, whispering wind; Cost 26,750 gp
That's... dull. It's three unrelated spell effects that are sort of tied together. And it has a mediocre name. If the judges saw this item, it would almost certainly be rejected because we'd have 40 or more other wondrous items that were more interesting than this.
But Neil's evocative name, (concise) description, and excellent flavor text tied these three abilities together and made the item cool, innovative, and stand out in the eyes of the judges. And he made it into the Top 32. And then won the competition for that year. And we've been hurling more writing work his way ever since. So, it is entirely possible to submit an item that goes against this "auto-reject" advice and make it to the next round of the competition. But you have to bring your A-game.
That's the whole point of these advice posts. If you just submit a simple SIAC or SAK like the leaves of the scrying tree, you're not going to make it. And now you know that. So give your item a hard look before you hit "Submit." Does it fall into one of these "auto-reject" categories? If so, is there some way you can make it better, cooler, more innovative, more eye-catching, more... Superstar? If there isn't, maybe you should submit a different item. If there is, make those changes... and look at it yet again. This isn't high school, where a passing score is enough to let you move forward--you have to be one of the best in each round.
You don't want to compete against the hundreds of other people trying to get spots 30, 31, and 32 of the Top 32... you want to compete against the people in the Top 16, or even the Top 8. While technically a "head start" on Round 1 doesn't put you in a better position in Round 2, it's a fact that your previous performance does influence the voters in later rounds. I can't count how many times people have said, "I'm giving you a vote in this round because I really liked your wondrous item." It makes a difference.
I'm going to be spending the next 45 days judging all of the wondrous items submissions. I've stated this before and I'll state it again: I'd rather have 500 good submissions than 400 mediocre submissions and 100 good submissions. I want you to make me work hard selecting the best 32 wondrous items from this year's competition. Submit an item that makes the judges click "Keep" without any dissenters.
Show me you have the design chops to be this year's RPG Superstar.
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To quote myself in another advice thread: Prove me wrong. I want you to prove me wrong.
I've been thinking for a few days now. Next year it would be very cool, to have a round that is "This is the list of Sean's rules. Pick one, and break it. Show which rule you break, and how, and why."
Obviously, you'd probably want to tweak the rules list a little bit. It could make for an interesting challenge...
That contest has been every year, Sean is challenging us to prove him wrong.
He's just being a gentleman and letting you know up front that your item will start with a strike against it. The more rules you break, the more stikes.
If you can overcome those strikes and craft an intriguing enough item, go for it. It will stand out, but will that be an advantage?
Increase risk, possible increase reward (or elimination). Up to us to decide.
Christine Schneider's item from 2008 is another example. It goes directly against several of these "rules", yet was cool, made the cut, and she ended up winning it all.
In fact, if you look at the best items, it's not the mechanics of the item that made them the best, it was the skill of the author in conveying the mechanics of the item, as the example above shows.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8
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i'm thinking that you just opened the flood gate to items that break your advice...
That's what makes a Superstar: you take the big risk and you make it work. If you can't, then it's not you yet. Keep working. I learned that last year when I played it pretty safe in the last round I was in; if I had gone a little more daring, I might have had a better shot.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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i'm thinking that you just opened the flood gate to items that break your advice...That's what makes a Superstar: you take the big risk and you make it work. If you can't, then it's not you yet. Keep working. I learned that last year when I played it pretty safe in the last round I was in; if I had gone a little more daring, I might have had a better shot.
And it's the last part of your first sentence that's important. you make it work. An item could be 'superstar' if it doesn't break any of the rules, it could be 'superstar' if it breaks more than one. But if you set out going "I'm going to break rule X" and build an item around just breaking rule X, you're likely dooming yourself.
To use Neil's example above (so nice to not talk about myself) It breaks the SIAC rule, but in doing so, it goes beyond just a spell in a can. It's flavourful, it's evocative, and it's superstar.
A bit of self promotion
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Sigh...
I wish this advice had come before I posted my Gozreh’s Baresman to the SIaC thread. I came up with a replacement, but I just don't like it nearly as much. The whole idea of the baresman to me is introducing a kind of religious "magic item" that I've never seen in a fantasy game before (there's a lot I haven't read, so maybe someone did use it), even though it's a real world item. My replacement idea was a cloak, and that just feels so... done.
The advice in this thread does help, though. Going back, I'd probably re-write the whole central paragraph about how the spell works and give it a lot more flavor. Wind and wave themed ideas are popping into my head ... perhaps:
On command, the baresman summons a standing wave of sea water once per day as the Aqueous Orb spell (Advanced Player’s Guide), as if cast by an 11th level divine caster. Unlike the base spell, the baresman creates a wave which acts only on an initial command. Once summoned, it either moves outward, white-capped, seemingly blown in a powerful storm (the summoner gestures outward while issuing the command-word in order to cause this) or stands in place anywhere within the 210 ft range where the baresman was pointed, the wave constantly appearing to break and re-form.
I also think I have the pricing wrong (that's sale price, if I'm not mistaken).
Anyway, I'm home sick and have a backlog of work I should be getting to if I feel up to it. Perhaps next year.
I have only one comment on this thread...
"Spice, Spice, Baby wrote:"...?!
--Neil
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If that's the first time you heard that, then your grade school bully has failed you. Give him a swirly for his/her pain.
When I was in grade school, Vanilla Ice hadn't even made it back yet with his "brand new invention" or learned to "rock a mic like a vandal," "light up a stage," or "wax a chump like a candle."
Ice, ice, baby,
--Neil
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8
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When I was in grade school, Vanilla Ice hadn't even made it back yet with his "brand new invention" or learned to "rock a mic like a vandal," "light up a stage," or "wax a chump like a candle."
Ice, ice, baby,
--Neil
Truly your childhood was a dark, dark time.
If that's the first time you heard that, then your grade school bully has failed you. Give him a swirly for his/her pain.When I was in grade school, Vanilla Ice hadn't even made it back yet with his "brand new invention" or learned to "rock a mic like a vandal," "light up a stage," or "wax a chump like a candle."
Ice, ice, baby,
--Neil
No Ninja Rap either? The horror.
Truly your childhood was a dark, dark time.When I was in grade school, Vanilla Ice hadn't even made it back yet with his "brand new invention" or learned to "rock a mic like a vandal," "light up a stage," or "wax a chump like a candle."
Ice, ice, baby,
--Neil
No his childhood was blessed. Or as Ice would say, "Nice, Nice, baby."
Marathon Voter Season 7
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You know, though the song is unfortunately imprinted in my brain, I couldn't actally recall when I first heard it either. Looking it up on Wikipedia, "Ice, Ice Baby" was released in 1991, which I'm going to guess was four years after Neil graduated from H.S.
Neil is even more fortunate though. Not only is he too old to have gotten any grief from any association with that song, but he missed the Spice Girls (1994) completely.
You know, though the song is unfortunately imprinted in my brain, I couldn't actally recall when I first heard it either. Looking it up on Wikipedia, "Ice, Ice Baby" was released in 1991, which I'm going to guess was four years after Neil graduated from H.S.
Spot on, my friend. Way to "collaborate and listen"... ;-)
Neil is even more fortunate though. Not only is he too old to have gotten any grief from any association with that song, but he missed the Spice Girls (1994) completely.
"Oh, tell me whatcha want, whatcha really, really want!"
Removed a post. Let's keep this above-board people!
I think that someone who manages to get a wondrous item that breaks all 26 auto-reject rules into the top 32 should be declared RPG superstar right away!
I think that someone who manages to get a wondrous item that breaks all 26 auto-reject rules into the top 32 should be declared RPG superstar right away!
Yes!! And everybody was going to join Lem Li in the hell of being cut to peices!
I need to watch that movie again.
It needs to be watched at least once a year. :)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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I need to watch that movie again.It needs to be watched at least once a year. :)
I'm going to end up in the 'hell full of ex-wives' watch me...
This thread kind of got sidetracked, but it is totally 100% accurate. Please, do yourselves a favor and re-read Sean's initial post. When I saw the title of this thread it made me think of one of our all time favorite first round submissions from year 1--the Migrus Locker. Great example of what Sean is talking about.
Knock us out.
Bowl us over.
Break rules.
Swing for the fences.
To paraphrase Jim Rome: "make an item, don't suck" and see if we rack you. (though I guess I can't say "we" anymore since I'm not a judge, but you know what I mean).
I've commented on this before (and others with more web-fu can find it and post links) but this first round is unique. The judges only do the selection. No voting from the public. And really, this isn't so much a "round" as it is a process of determining what 32 volunteer contestants should get to compete. Paizo has simply set this task as the task we use (there I go again) to select the initial contestants. So if there is ever a round to bowl the judges over with extra awesome, this is it. Because it makes the judges say "wow, I want to see what that guy or girl can do in this contest." Remember, there will NOT be 32 perfect submissions. All will have some imperfection. So its not like some purist can say "how can you pick an item with flaws with mojo over one that is technically designed perfectly?" Here's how--that doesnt happen. We (oops) dont get 32 perfect submissions. So "promise" and "mojo" and "awesomeness" do factor in--it did for me anyway. I can't speak for our new judges. But my guess is they will come to the same realization I did: round 1 isnt just about finding the best 32 items, it is about finding the best 32 contestants for this contest and item creation is the task we gave to help us evaluate the submissions, but sometimes you have to look past that and decide what the whole goal of round 1 is.
Take that for what its worth.
...round 1 isnt just about finding the best 32 items, it is about finding the best 32 contestants for this contest and item creation is the task we gave to help us evaluate the submissions, but sometimes you have to look past that and decide what the whole goal of round 1 is....
It's true that we don't just look for the best 32 items. We're actually trying to identify what we believe will make the best 32 designers for the contest...as measured by how they handle the task of designing a wondrous item. And, it turns out you can actually learn a lot about someone in just 300 words (or less) to guide you in that kind of assessment. Some folks have already opened our eyes.
The intended result of the sorting process in Round 1 is that we pick 32 awesome designers we all want to support and watch grow over the course of the competition. And, more often than not, that just so happens to also result in picking 32 awesome wondrous items (whether in idea or execution). This is why we (or at least me anyway) refer to this phase a lot like submitting a resume for a job interview. Your wondrous item (and all the crafting and creativity that goes into it) is essentially that resume. But we're not trying to find the best "resume"...we're trying to find the best "designer." And that's a subjective process that picks apart your resume to find the things we think are most interesting about you and kind of job you would do on all the various assignments that freelancing entails.
My two cents,
--Neil
Some folks have already opened our eyes.
Oh, Neil, you wily minx. Dropping sentences like this? Have you no shame? :-)
Oh, Neil, you wily minx. Dropping sentences like this? Have you no shame? :-)
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"None whatsoever." :-]
i would ask "like who" but then i realised you wouldn't know, since all submissions were annonymous...
"Who said that?" ;-)
I just wish we could see the forum where they are debating the items.
No you don't. Really. Trust me.
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Star Voter Season 6
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i'm guessing what Neil really whants to say is:
"the horror witness in those forums is beyond what any mortal mind could take, it is worse than seeing an old one up close! at least the void isn't so bad! save your sanity! and never talk about the debating item forum again...ever!"
:P
They've lost good men in those debate forums.
"Who?"
"Top ... men."
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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I just wish we could see the forum where they are debating the items.No you don't. Really. Trust me.
I do, in part because I can't enter. I'm always interested in 'behind the scenes' stuff.
Heck I look forward to (most) commentary on DVDs for the same reason.
I do, in part because I can't enter. I'm always interested in 'behind the scenes' stuff.
I assume they use the tried-and-true essay marking technique. How interesting could it be to watch them print out paper copies of all of the submissions and then throw them down a stairwell?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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I do, in part because I can't enter. I'm always interested in 'behind the scenes' stuff.I assume they use the tried-and-true essay marking technique. How interesting could it be to watch them print out paper copies of all of the submissions and then throw them down a stairwell?
Well we see the (I assume cleaned up) comments on the top 32. Learning from anyone's* attempt is still learning. What's the old quote? "I didn't fail a hundred times. I found a hundred methods that didn't work."
*
Well we see the (I assume cleaned up) comments on the top 32.
They add those afterwards. ;-)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka Benchak the Nightstalker
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I just wish we could see the forum where they are debating the items.No you don't. Really. Trust me.I do, in part because I can't enter. I'm always interested in 'behind the scenes' stuff.
Heck I look forward to (most) commentary on DVDs for the same reason.
I know, me too!
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I just wish we could see the forum where they are debating the items.No you don't. Really. Trust me.I do, in part because I can't enter. I'm always interested in 'behind the scenes' stuff.
Heck I look forward to (most) commentary on DVDs for the same reason.
I know, me too!
Same here. Good or bad I can take it. I'm a big boy. But, if my item is rejected I would like to know the reasons behind it. This is my first time ever doing anything like this.
Same here. Good or bad I can take it. I'm a big boy. But, if my item is rejected I would like to know the reasons behind it. This is my first time ever doing anything like this.
I hate to be all "me too"...
It is interesting and instructive to see what wins. But the only feedback about what looses that we get is Sean's "autoreject" tips. And when we can clearly see that sometimes those don't trigger a reject after all, it gets murky.
I keep reading that this competition is really a competitive audition for a writing job. But in general, people who actually write for a living get both positive and negative feedback from their editors as part of the development process.
Of all the posts I've read here, the ones I think I found most instructive have been the "Home Item" thread where some of the internal analysis and discussions were revealed.
With all of that said, I'm just hoping to get ENOUGH feedback so that I can avoid whatever my mistakes were this time for the next time I do this. So it's really helpful to know what the judges thought the mistakes were. Truly, I would have avoided them THIS time if they were apparent to me.
...I'm just hoping to get ENOUGH feedback so that I can avoid whatever my mistakes were this time for the next time I do this. So it's really helpful to know what the judges thought the mistakes were. Truly, I would have avoided them THIS time if they were apparent to me.
I can appreciate this perspective. When I didn't make it into RPG Superstar the first year, I wondered why. But, I didn't walk away from the contest. I stuck around and paid attention. First and foremost, the Top 32 were revealed and I saw what the judges liked about each item...and why. That helped me realize where mine fell short. In other words, I knew what my item didn't have as compared to the others.
Then, Clark posted his "Bad Item Stereotypes" thread and gave a few folks insight into what went on behind the judges' curtain a bit. This let me know what my item shouldn't have. And, in subsequent years, Clark went a step further and volunteered to offer feedback and insight in the "Clark, Please Review My Item" threads. Again, this should be a forum (for anyone who takes the time to review it) whereby you can further learn examples of what not to do.
There have been three years of that kind of coaching. And here we are in 2011 with the fourth year of the competition. Take stock. What have you learned so far? Did you review all of that feedback from the prior years? If not, why not? Do you seriously want to break into freelance design? If so, you need to work hard at it. Part of that is making the effort to educate yourself by making use of the resources available. And believe me, every year this competition goes on, there's more and more advice, feedback, coaching, etc...not just from the judges, but also the prior competitors...some still eligible to compete and others who aren't, but still want to support Paizo and the success of the competition.
But, the judges can't conduct a wondrous item design training class here on the forums (even if some of us might want to). Instead, there comes a point where you're ultimately counted upon to go forth and educate yourself on where your item fell short. There should be plenty of examples by now which outline elements that probably brought down your item, too. And, what's more, recognizing those things is part of what makes an "RPG Superstar candidate" become an "RPG Superstar competitor."
Giving you the exact details of where you fell short on your individual item isn't as helpful as ensuring you learn the broader lessons of what makes for good item design and what makes for bad item design in general. That's because next year, you're probably going to submit a different item rather than trying to improve the broken one that didn't make it through. So, the individual lessons you expect to glean from your own personal item should also be present as general lessons in everyone else's items. That's what you need to look for, because that's what's going to improve you as a designer. Whereas any feedback we gave you specifically about your individual item is mostly only going to help you improve that item...or, rather, the specific elements that you included in that item's design. And that's too small of an object lesson. You need to be looking much wider than that to improve your design-fu.
At any rate, I haven't heard Sean or Vic indicate whether there'll be a "Please Critique My Item" thread again this year. I suspect there might be. I really wish I had the time to devote to it. But, I'm under a very serious writing deadline (on Carrion Crown) at the same time I'm fulfilling my judging duties. I'd just be stretched too thin if I tried to fill Clark's shoes in that regard. And, who can really fill Clark's shoes anyway? C'mon, he's one of a kind.
The important thing is that you take advantage of the peer review method (which I believe Azmahel? has offered to do). And keep doing your own research...both into what fell short in prior years, as well as what makes it through this year.
Just my two cents,
--Neil
which I believe Azmahel? offered to do
Yup i did. Even with being busy writing round 2, 3, 4 and 5 entries ( :) ) I should find the time to do this.
I'm looking forward to it actually, because reviewing items is fun too and you can learn so much about item design when doing so.
I posed a question in the judges chambers about the possibilities of someone taking on another "Critique My Item" thread this year. I believe Sean does have something in the works to assist folks with that. So, stay tuned.
...a really long, fictitious wondrous item submission...
Auto-reject. You're over word count. Not even gonna bother to read it. ;-)