Forgive me for not reading the entire 300 post thread before I commented. I wish I had seen it earlier, since this is an issue I have considered for years. As a reference, I'm a fundamentalist semi-evangelical Christian of no particular denomination. I'm not intolerant (I have friends of widely different beliefs) and I am respectful but I am firm in my own faith.
I used to think that tabletop RPGs were evil, and based this primarily on the following arguments: one, in such games you had to "get in character" and think from your character's viewpoint. This in itself wasn't wrong, but there's also argument two, that in such games you must a) worship false gods, and b) use magic spells.
Over time, I realized that there is always a suspension of belief in fiction, regardless of type. My faith teaches forgiveness and compassion, but I still rooted for John McClane when he killed terrorists without warning or chance of defense. Why? Because I recognized a different morality in the movie than I adopted in real life, and enjoying the fiction required me to accept that morality, only for the purposes of watching that movie.
So, for example, when playing an RPG, one must accept false gods and magic spells (depending on the setting, of course), and a morality of "We can kill them and loot their corpses because they are evil critters." We accept a different morality, only for the purposes of the game.
Everyone has their comfort zones on this, though. I recall a game where I was playing a cleric, and in an effort to bolster RP the GM wanted me to actually say a prayer to my character's deity. I didn't want to, it caused a really uncomfortable moment, and when the GM realized that there was a reason I wasn't warming to the idea he let it slide. It also affects the games you play, as well - I dislike playing Vampire games and refuse to play Demon: the Fallen.
You also have to consider level of immersion. From my experience, characters usually reflect different aspects of their players. I can't play a character I can't relate to at all, and the better it reflects me the easier it is to play. But we tend to be what we practice, and characters may emphasize some of our qualities more than others. Example: I played a Neutral Evil drow assassin in a long running game. Every week I'd focus on the suspicious, devious, petty, sadistic, and selfish aspects of my personality. I soon found myself thinking this way outside of the game as well, because I was using those parts of myself more. Result? I no longer play evil characters, and am hesitant to play neutral ones. I play characters that represent who I want to be - there are plenty of interesting concepts even within that restriction.
So I guess the answer to the question is person dependent. Should a Christian play Pathfinder? Only if a) the elements of the game are within your comfort zone of suspension, b) you aren't harming yourself or others by doing so, and c) your group is okay with it and doesn't push you to break one of the above just because they are okay with something. (This even applies to other Christians - different people have different comfort zones.)
As an additional, you might find this group interesting: http://www.christian-gamers-guild.org/ - among the various pages on their site, they have a partial list of open Christians in the gaming community, and a long essay on why it is okay for Christians to be roleplayers. One of the things they mention is why a Christian should NOT quit if they ARE okay with roleplaying. Roleplaying is a social activity, and there are those out there who have a spiritual hunger who will make friends in RP groups. If they go to their friends seeking fulfillment, and all their friends are not Christian, then they won't be as well. It becomes a feedback loop where the population of gamers gets less and less Christian, and since the companies respond to the gamers, the products get less and less Christian as well. If some of their friends are Christian, though, it might move them to accept Christianity. It will also show the companies that Christians are part of their demographic, and their products will be less hostile to the faith, making it more palatable for Christians to become gamers. So, by roleplaying you can also fulfill a ministerial purpose and influence the hobby towards your point of view; by avoiding it, you make it more likely that uncertain people are moved towards other faiths and the hobby as a whole is more likely to represent hostile viewpoints. (This actually goes for any religion - a lack of Hindu gamers, for example, will lead to games that don't represent Hindu beliefs and fewer new gamers converting to Hinduism. I focus on Christianity because a) it was the religion discussed by the OP, b) it is my own faith, and c) it focuses more heavily on conversion than many other world religions.)
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If you have to ask the question, than no.
Please check the dates of the last post before posting. This thread died almost a year ago. Thread necromancy is generally frowned upon.
Please check the dates of the last post before posting. This thread died almost a year ago. Thread necromancy is generally frowned upon.
I did not realize, but I think it's a stupid topic, so I'm happy to let it lie. (pun intended)
Please check the dates of the last post before posting. This thread died almost a year ago. Thread necromancy is generally frowned upon.
I really don't think that's true. If it was, people wouldn't say "search the old threads before posting a question" (which almost always ends in a thread resurrection).
Resurrected threads sure beat the spam threads of the same question/topic week after week in any case.
I would be curious to know if the OP still plays Pathfinder a year after the original post.
and repeating it, and repeating it ad nauseum.Please check the dates of the last post before posting. This thread died almost a year ago. Thread necromancy is generally frowned upon.But not more frowned upon then repeating the same topic elsewhere.
Yes, Lord!
I'm like the 3.5 of Christianity.
I would be curious to know if the OP still plays Pathfinder a year after the original post.
See, that's a good question, and to my mind, makes bringing the thread back worth it.
Well I guess what I'm try to get at is I don't really want to give up the game I love just because my faith says it's "evil" because I don't see anything "evil" about it.
You're faith says nothing about Pathfinder or even dungeons and dragons being evil. The people of the faith do. Having your religious beliefs documented and predetermined by individuals is absurd anyway. Religion is supposed to be about enlightenment not oppressive bigotry. If you were a man of god then you would follow your heart not the creations of god.
stuff[threadjack]BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!![/threadjack]
Mageye is fabricating this scenario to bash Christianity.
WARNING:
Its ok to bash Christianity & conservative principles on these boards. Say anything in defense and your liable to get your post removed by the moderator.
Mageye is fabricating this scenario to bash Christianity.
WARNING:
Its ok to bash Christianity & conservative principles on these boards. Say anything in defense and your liable to get your post removed by the moderator.
and by that you mean using logic for third graders in order to point out obvious religious falicies then have the highly religious get offended at said logic?
Mageye is fabricating this scenario to bash Christianity.
These seems a big assumption to me, Aretas. Unless you have some way of knowing this, I'd recommend light treading.
Kill the thread!
seconded
Actually, I had a roomie with bipolar back in the day. She was considered handicapped by the government and would not be able to play RPGs because she had difficulty telling reality from fantasy. (She was also unable to watch certain films--the Matrix would have really blown her mind.) The opinion of the therapist may be substantiated. However, you may want to pose the question to your MD or psychiatrist; they tend to be more knowledgable.
Futhermore, therapists quite often encourage roleplaying. My therapist used to laugh at me for playing D&D until I told her that it was a form of therapy. She had to eat her hat.
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In my opinion, most posters need to take some of my religion classes before commenting on religion in public.
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In my opinion, most posters need to take some of my religion classes before commenting on religion in public.An doc about my milk issue? ;)
I'm a real doctor, not a physician.
I'm a real doctor, not a physician.In my opinion, most posters need to take some of my religion classes before commenting on religion in public.An doc about my milk issue? ;)
Emergency medicine doctors would disagree.
On another note, I don't need a PHD in mother goose in order to comment on it. Religious texts and Mother goose have the same level of validity, Dr. ;-)
Please, people, I ask you not to try to start something here.
Religion and politics are never good to talk about, much less on the internet. A thread lock would be an Excellent idea. Just saying.
Please, people, I ask you not to try to start something here.
Apparently people like to combine their ignorance of subjects and their knowledge that other people value things they disdain and are ignorant of in inflammatory ways. I'll try to act surprised. It will help them feel important.
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On another note, I don't need a PHD in mother goose in order to comment on it. Religious texts and Mother goose have the same level of validity, Dr. ;-)
Before you make a comment, ask yourself "Can this hurt or offend someone?" if the answer is yes, then whatever your beliefs or non-beliefs are, ask yourself "Is this really a good idea to hurt or offend?"
If your beliefs or non-beliefs in something or the non-existence of something are such that you feel you MUST educate fellow gamers with your perceived truth, then ask yourself, "Would educating them be worth my time, or would doing so really have any significance on the cosmic level".
Thank you for listening. I'll be here all week. :P
On another note, I don't need a PHD in mother goose in order to comment on it. Religious texts and Mother goose have the same level of validity, Dr. ;-)Before you make a comment, ask yourself "Can this hurt or offend someone?" if the answer is yes, then whatever your beliefs or non-beliefs are, ask yourself "Is this really a good idea to hurt or offend?"
If your beliefs or non-beliefs in something or the non-existence of something are such that you feel you MUST educate fellow gamers with your perceived truth, then ask yourself, "Would educating them be worth my time, or would doing so really have any significance on the cosmic level".
Thank you for listening. I'll be here all week. :P
Religion is based on faith and nothing else. Validity is a logical measure. Religion is not. My intent was not to offend. Believe what you want, just don't call it fact. Call it faith. Thanks.
Edit; Also i'm constantly offended by christians, so If they get a little riled when i disagree than so be it.
p.s. And I'm done with this thread. Religious and polotical discussions never end well Much less with the anonymity of the internet. This thread really should have stayed dead. No such luck.
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Now there's a Mother Goose worthy post.
This stuff is sad, really just sad. Disparaging remarks about others religious views just aren't going to help anything and aren't in the fun good-natured bantering that most of the threads are.
Actually, I had a roomie with bipolar back in the day. She was considered handicapped by the government and would not be able to play RPGs because she had difficulty telling reality from fantasy. (She was also unable to watch certain films--the Matrix would have really blown her mind.)
Bipolar disorder has nothing to do with telling the difference between reality and fantasy, that's another mental ailment entirely. (Not saying your roommate wasn't bipolar, just that it sounds like he/she may have been suffering from more than one condition.)
This stuff is sad, really just sad. Disparaging remarks about others religious views just aren't going to help anything and aren't in the fun good-natured bantering that most of the threads are.
Yep. Instead of locking the thread, they should just delete those who are willing to make offensive statements trying to get it locked.
Yep. Instead of locking the thread, they should just delete those who are willing to make offensive statements trying to get it locked.
I'm not supporting anything like that, I just hope people can learn to be nice. It isn't logical to think that sometimes, but "hope springs eternal".
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I would be curious to know if the OP still plays Pathfinder a year after the original post.
Yep - the OP's last post was in mid July 2011 - See
Might be because people cannot bear to think that religion is a legitimate subject of academic inquiry about which they might know as little as they do of some area like, say, physics, and also because they cannot bear to forgo insulting others to give vent to some of their own issues.
As far as truth goes, yeah, I'm pretty hung up on truth. There's a whole area of philosophy dedicated to the question of the nature of truth which is separate from epistemology, that is, the questions of how we form beliefs and know that beliefs are true.
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I haven't finished reading the whole thread so far, but it seems to me that your therapist was not acting like a therapist; he was violating his scope of practice. Religious beliefs have nothing to do with bipolar disorder treatment, and he should know that.
Now, on to reading the rest of the thread since my reactionary response has been resolved.
One of my degrees is anthropology and I've always liked to talk about the anthropology of religion. Sadly, I agree that such discussions are just about impossible on the Web.Please, people, I ask you not to try to start something here.Religion and politics are never good to talk about, much less on the internet. A thread lock would be an Excellent idea. Just saying.
I too love the study of the origin of religion, and I too find it's dangerous to talk about! Dis you see the article in national geographic about the Göbekli Tepe site? Very interesting.
No, I haven't. I've fallen behind in my reading over the last several months. But now that you've noted it, I'll see if I can get a copy of it.I too love the study of the origin of religion, and I too find it's dangerous to talk about! Dis you see the article in national geographic about the Göbekli Tepe site? Very interesting.One of my degrees is anthropology and I've always liked to talk about the anthropology of religion. Sadly, I agree that such discussions are just about impossible on the Web.Please, people, I ask you not to try to start something here.Religion and politics are never good to talk about, much less on the internet. A thread lock would be an Excellent idea. Just saying.
Humm you can see it here: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text
I hope the link works...
I'm disappointed in some of the posters in this thread for their antagonistic remarks. And from some people who I thought were nice folks.
It should be against forum rules to make such obviously inflammatory statements. It's one thing to argue semantics or debate the philosophy and science of a subject and another to completely discredit someone's faith by saying such things as "Your book is a fairy tale."
I wouldn't expect someone to be nearly as offended if it was referred to as Christian mythology (hell, I call lots of other, older religions mythology, I can't be so two-faced about it as to not accept that word). And it has more to do with being respectful than whether or not one is right or wrong.
I think that's it though. Respect is what dies with the anonymity of the internet.
and by that you mean using logic for third graders in order to point out obvious religious falicies then have the highly religious get offended at said logic?Mageye is fabricating this scenario to bash Christianity.
WARNING:
Its ok to bash Christianity & conservative principles on these boards. Say anything in defense and your liable to get your post removed by the moderator.
You should really educate yourself before you make comments like that. It makes you sound like a 3rd grader. I feel sorry for you.