Solution! Pay a Wizard to research Enlarge Animal.:/heh. that's what i thought too. SNEAK ATTACK CLAWS!!!too bad an awakened housecat would be too small to flank and thus the character would lose its main source of sneak attack opportunities.
:)
Three things.
1) You never lose the monster CR entirely. You only regain levels equal to half the CR (I forget if it's leveled up or down)
2) The reason you regain those levels is because, indeed, those bonuses for the most part mean less and less as you go up in levels. Is DR 10 / silvered worth two full levels of hit points, feats, and skills? Is +2 strength and con worth +2 BAB and those hit die? You can turn into a lion once, whereas two druid levels might've given you a whole new array of wild shape options - was that worth it? +2 dexterity or a full level of rogue bonuses? There's a reason that, in 3.5, taking another above LA 1 was seen as foolish unless you could buy it off - 99 times out of 100, those monster abilities or stat boosts mean nothing compared to class skills. And of course, none of that matters since, at the end of the day, he still ain't throwing around spells ;p
3) Werebear monks are alright, but werebear paladins are the best. See, due to alignment shifting, everything you infect becomes lawful good. Best way to take down a BBEG - infect him, then wait a few days :D
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Solution! Pay a Wizard to research Enlarge Animal.:/heh. that's what i thought too. SNEAK ATTACK CLAWS!!!too bad an awakened housecat would be too small to flank and thus the character would lose its main source of sneak attack opportunities.
If you have 3.5, there's a much more advantageous solution. Races of the Wild has two wonderful feats: Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk. Basically, anyone who's 2 sizes larger than you, you can enter their square without provoking AoO, and you always have them flatfooted if you're in their square with them. It also has great fun like there's a 50/50 chance that anyone trying to hit you hits the baddie, and you can use your dex to trip them and they don't get their size bonus for defending against the trip.
There were entire builds based around these feats with the Gnome Giant Slayer PrC back in the Wizards boards using a permanently shrunken gnome. But an awakened housecat rogue (PrC into Assassin of course, since all cats are evil without exception and will kill random smaller animals for the purpose of pure enjoyment or to please others (my cat had brought in many a lizard, uneaten, as a "gift" for me when I was a child) the possibilities are endless.)
Round 1: Cat purrs, nuzzles, and heads towards BBEG's space, feigning innocence. (Bluff check. Cats are never innocent.) Cat nuzzles against BBEG as he fights everyone else, not paying attention to cat.
Round 2: Like a true feline, even though you were JUST being friendly to the BBEG, you unexepectedly gouge the thing's legs with your claws just because you feel like it, giving him a nasty full-round of sneak attacks!
If you want, you can even stealth for the required rounds at this guy's feet to get in that death attack. Hide in Plain Sight just makes sense for a housecat; they fade into the background, and when they want to reappear, they find yarn and play with it (or another suitable "awww" item. Those tactically cunning evil little adorable bastards.)
I would SO read fiction written about "Mittens: Awakened Housecat of the Assassin's Guild". With potential titles like "Cat's Paw", "Tooth and Claw", and "The Rocking Chair", I'd probably be grinning the whole time I read.
Just tossing in some random commentary, but remember 1) Unless the Party has a real IC love of this Lycanthrope, they are going to be rather unimpressed with having a 'monster' in the group. Most parties would probably accept an Ogre or Orc or Kobold into the mix because at least they can be controlled. Centuries of bards telling tragic tales of whole villages ripped to pieces by a single Were-Beast and the survivors having live short, tormented lives as the beastial curse drives them to become monsters themselves, generally tend to make people 'stab with a silver sword first, burn the corpse later' towards lycanthropes.
2) Lycanthroping character will be very, very well aware of this, unless we're talking a min-max attempt. Shapechange only when you're going in for the kill, can carry a Silvered weapon to 'finish' off a foe you can't kill on the spot without risking blowing your own identity.
3) There will be Rangers out there who hate your kind, even if you're one of the rare breeds of Were-Beasts out there who do not delight in preying upon mortals, and no doubt Knights, Mercenaries and the like would love to kill you and skin you in hybrid form as a trophy, and dubious caster sorts would love even more to capture you alive and use you as a test subject/sacrifice/attempt to turn you into a familiar. Some times it's easier just to not play as a Lycanthrope in the average campaign world unless you can figure out a way to get the would-be hunters to either back off or adopt a live-and-let-live approach to yourself, if not your species.
The easiest way to do this is to create a new domain: Cat, and hand it to the inquisitor. The beast shape spells are pretty well balanced, and you could easily add Cat's Grace and Jump at lower levels.
Honestly, from reading the OP, this sounds like a case of player greed. "I want awesome defenses, and a bonus to my casting stat, and cool options that synergize with my spell list, and something better than wild shape, and, and, and, and.
Now, if the other players have their own awesome sandwiches to eat, then this might work out. If not, everyone will hate him, and you'll have trouble challenging him without risking the lives of everyone else.
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having dealt with this before, here's the test. Work through all the potential downsides with him.
"You can't change at will"
"You'll have to keep track of the moon"
"Your changes might ruin gear"
"You'll be treated as a monster by people who know"
"You can't cast spells in animal form"
And see what his reactions are. If he's got a way out/excuse for each one, then he's a munchkin abusing the system. If you get reasonable responses like "I'm going to have to be careful" or "Yeah, I know" then you might have a player with a cool RP concept, which is always good.
Thanks for your suggestions guys. I will tell you that my player isn't attempting to min/max their character, they just thought the lycanthropy idea was cool and asked me how they could do it. I think what I'm going to go with is giving them a +2 bonus to all of their physical stats instead of replacing their stats with the creature's in animal form, and I'm going to have the level gap go down by 1 at 10th level, so that they'll only be a single level behind the rest of the party when they get to that point. I'll keep the DR 10 silver as that seems to be the major advantage of lycans, and it makes up for the lack of hp theyll have as they're leveling up. I suppose my only question now is whether or not 10th level is a good place for the advancement? When does DR 10 silver really not become a huge advantage anymore?
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Thanks for your suggestions guys. I will tell you that my player isn't attempting to min/max their character, they just thought the lycanthropy idea was cool and asked me how they could do it. I think what I'm going to go with is giving them a +2 bonus to all of their physical stats instead of replacing their stats with the creature's in animal form, and I'm going to have the level gap go down by 1 at 10th level, so that they'll only be a single level behind the rest of the party when they get to that point. I'll keep the DR 10 silver as that seems to be the major advantage of lycans, and it makes up for the lack of hp theyll have as they're leveling up. I suppose my only question now is whether or not 10th level is a good place for the advancement? When does DR 10 silver really not become a huge advantage anymore?
Well a +3 weapon enhancement bypasses DR/Silver, how many creatures are going to have access to that?
"You can't change at will"
So there's no more "Control Shape"? ..I thought she was a natural Lycanthrope?
"You'll have to keep track of the moon"
Again, no "Control Shape"? I realize it isn't foolproof, but it is something. Still better to not be in civilization.
"Your changes might ruin gear"
"Can I make an 'Escape Artist' check to see how fast I can strip?" :p
"You'll be treated as a monster by people who know"
Guilty until proven innocent-- It is a "Curse".
"You can't cast spells in animal form"
--Unless you take a feat?
And see what his reactions are. If he's got a way out/excuse for each one, then he's a munchkin abusing the system. If you get reasonable responses like "I'm going to have to be careful" or "Yeah, I know" then you might have a player with a cool RP concept, which is always good.
*looks in the mirror for tell-tale signs* ...I'm not shrinking, am I?
AH you're right, Mittens would become a magical beast and gain darkvision. That would also give him 3d10+7d8 HD instead of 10d8 and an extra +1 BAB.
I also think that the increase to 3 HD would change it's size to small. Similar to a cheetah or leopard who also have 3 HD. That would help quite a bit. Allowing Mittens to benefit from Precise Strike in order to actually deal some damage. Though the 7 rounds of Bane Weapon it'll still hit pretty hard.
I would SO read fiction written about "Mittens: Awakened Housecat of the Assassin's Guild". With potential titles like "Cat's Paw", "Tooth and Claw", and "The Rocking Chair", I'd probably be grinning the whole time I read.
I feel kind of inspired right now. If not to write it than at least to paint up a cover
I've got this story idea for a monastery cat that is awakened by the elderly abbot as the last line of defense.
I just noticed that due to the domains that it has, it gets an animal companion.. What do you think? Another cat? A Raven?
I just noticed that due to the domains that it has, it gets an animal companion.. What do you think? Another cat? A Raven?
A tiger, obviously.
*collects cat friends and starts singing*
I just noticed that due to the domains that it has, it gets an animal companion.. What do you think? Another cat? A Raven?
A pug named Ottis.
I have a homebrew idea for when someone wants to play a monster.
First, give all normal character races a level. Possibly warrior or commoner.
Next, monsters don't get PC bonuses. A were montainlion will not be cityborn or countryborn, they grew up in a cave, like a mountainlion.
All non-monsters get a special free feat, tool user. They can wind a crossbow, operate siege equiptment, and this is required first before you can make magic items. Sure, the were-lion can take it, but she misses out on two other feats that way.
Humans adapt, and they can beat silverpieces into arrowheads. The more common were-creatures are, the more common silver weapons. If you can make things, you can make them out of coins.
Finally, just rule that were-mountain lions have resistance silver/5.
The DM is creating a monster. The player is just requesting it. :)
I have a player that wants to play an inquisitor character in a lvl 7 campaign as a mountain lion lycanthrope (lycanthrope template with leopard as the animal, base human). As I understand the Monsters as PC rules this makes her a base CR 3 creature, so her level would be 5, staying a permanent 2 levels behind the rest of the party. In exchange, she gets the ability to take animal form, DR 10 silver, and the ability to replace her base stats with the rather impressive ones of a leopard. She also gets the +2 Wis, -2 Cha of a lycanthrope in addition to her +2 Wis bonus for beng human as far as I can tell. I'm not entirely certain what this means for her character. She's 2 levels behind the rest of the party, true, but she's got 10 DR vs silver that I can't think of a way to bypass without being obvious about it :P. Add to that that she's got a Wis of 22 and no physical stat below 17 when in hybrid form and I wonder if she's unbalancing. Am I wrong to let her play this character or is the 2 levels really going to offput the advantages?
The game designers believe that the 2 levels do indeed "offput the advantages." I would agree.
Don't forget that DR only works on physical attacks, not magic or environmental damage. And many high level classes get DR of one form or another anyway, via beast shape, elemental shape, or other such enhancement.
8| revived after a year and a half...
I may have missed it but I can't see what class does he want to play.
Nor can I fine the level of the optimization of the party (it would also be useful to know what the other players are playing)
I've played with a guy who played a werebear before: this happened from around level 9-10 all the way to 15 and that was in 3.5.
My take on the matter is this:
- ability scores: if he heavily specializes in combat his physical stats should be way higher and thus the hybrid form ones should no be unbalancing; if he focuses on casting he will be significantly more relient, but at the cost of spellcasting power, again not unbalancing (the wis bonus will give some benefit to a druid or cleric but I'd rather have one level higher spell than a bonus to DC); if he play a 3/4 class, or a class with heavy mad (or both, like a monk) he will get some benefits but again nothing unbalancing since these classes are probably the weakest.
- Natural armor: a significant benefit, for a AC focused build this will have even more significant advantages, but it's not so high as to be usually unbalancing
- DR: this one is huge. Silver is hard to penetrate, monster will have almost no way to do so. This could really have an impact and I suggest to make clear from the beginning that you fear that it could be a problem and if you think it's too strong an ability you will tone it down to 5 (still a very strong ability but not so unbalancing)
- shapechanging: it's really cool, offers a lot of roleplaying opportunities. As long as the other players are fine with the other player having something so special I see no problem in this (it's potentially useful when grappled as he will be able to use all it's natural attacks but that highly circumstantial). Also, one of the classes that benefits the most from the bonus to wisdom will fine this ability redundant.
To gauge the actual balance I would need to know his class/feats and the composition of the party, but more or less I'd say that a LEP of 2 should not be unbalancing (just keep an eye on the DR)
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I was hoping he wanted to be a literal cat.
Had a character play a Tibbit in a campaign once and refused to leave cat form, he was also the group healer (as a druid) so the group spent a good amount of time chucking the "holy cat" at each other for heals.
As for your lycanthrope. how much do you want to let her play it?
You really like it: Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
If you like it but are nervous it will be super imba: Tell her your concerns and that you will let her play it but if it gets too obviously bad you will ask her to pull the character.
If you don't like it: Don't allow it.