Starting Age

[wakedown]

Without thinking, I made a middle-aged cleric for a campaign. I didn't adjust the Str/Dex/Con or Int/Wis/Cha - I simply wanted to play someone "older" (makes me shudder to think 37 is old).

For the DMs out there - do you enforce that new PCs are in the acceptable starting age range? Do you let PCs be any age they want? Do you play with the modifiers to abilities if so?

[DM_Blake]

I don't.

After I got a black belt in Kenpo Karate, I began studying Aikido with a little old Taiwanese man in his mid 60s who could totally mop the floor with me. That same year I bet my invincible father at chess for the first time, and then continued to do so consistently. That was the year I realized that old guys can be incredibly physically fit, and young guys might be smarter than old guys.

(yes, yes, I know that skill at chess is not the only measurement of a person's mental capabilities)

So no, I don't apply aging penalties to PCs.

Furthermore, I don't believe the numbers are correct. For example, INT keeps going up as people get older, so chess grandmasters should just be getting better as they age - they're more intelligent and they have studied the game for more years than younger, dumber players. But, the oldest world champion ever was only 58, and only a couple champions have ever held the title into their 50s, barely middle aged. Why aren't the venerable octogenarians with 30 more years of study and that extra +1 INT modifier hanging onto their titles until they die of old age?

The mind just doesn't get sharper with age. Past middle age, it really is "all downhill".

So I let my players be whatever age they want and I don't give them penalties or bonuses for it. And I've never run a campaign that takes more than a few years, so nobody is in jeopardy of dying of old age.

Besides, I know that if I did run a campaign that spanned decades, everyone would play elves, or make wishes to stop aging, and it would never become a factor anyway.

For me, those aging rules are just for NPCs.

[Michael Miller 36]

My group doesn't generally force a player to take the adjustments, but we do make sure that if you make a character that takes the bonuses s/he better make sure to take all the penalties to come with it. So if you haven't taken any modifiers (and the DM isn't forcing you to) than i wouldn't worry about it. but if you DO get any of the bonuses, you should take the penalties. If he forces you to take any of the penalties, make sure you get the bonuses.

For a cleric the bonus to wisdom could be helpful, but make sure you watch your strength, that'll affect how heavy of armor you can wear. Theres a spell in Defenders of the Faith called "Curse of the Brute" that allows you to boost one physical stat at the expense of a mental one for short times as well

[Maldollen]

DM_Blake wrote:

For me, those aging rules are just for NPCs.

Not that I completely agree with the aging chart and the stat adjustments it shows, but the other use for them would be a case of magically-aged PCs. I haven't seen it happen in many years, but it happened a few times in an old 1st ed campaign I played in--Deck of Many Things was usually the culprit, if I recall.

[Kir'Eshe]

Without starting a new thread....

Starting at middle aged for a class that can eventually cast age resistance seems like a win to me. It will help my terrible rolls for stats.

Outside of game, I do see that being middle aged would increase mental ability and decrease physical skills. CEOs and presidents vs professional athletes come to mind. I'll worry about old and venerable if i get there.

[HighLordNiteshade]

wakedown wrote:

For the DMs out there - do you enforce that new PCs are in the acceptable starting age range? Do you let PCs be any age they want? Do you play with the modifiers to abilities if so?

I've always enforced starting age, with one exception. Back in 2001 I had a player who came up with a backstory where his wizard was 20th level and a member of a 20th level wizard organisation balanced across alignments (2 representatives from each alignment) who was framed for a crime by some of the evil members (who wanted to turn the organization to evil). The organization then stripped of his magic and relevant memories, and exiled him. So his character was in his early 60s and starting over as a first level wizard. And I did make him apply the ability score impacts of that age (actually, he offered before I could even tell him to do it). The entire campaign was his character trying to regain his power so he could return to that organization, clear his name, and turn that group back to neutral (or possibly even good). It was the one and only time that I used a single character's backstory to build the main thread of an entire campaign.

[VoodistMonk]

I enforce the adjustments, but don't give too much concern as to the characters' ages. If the player is using a specific age bracket FOR the stat adjustments, then I make sure to take note and incorporate other appropriate age-related things for that character. Otherwise, I don't care how old your character is.

My table is really solid, though, and the players don't do dumb $#!+ that might affect the game just to make their individual character a little bit better... weird, I know, but it's almost like they would rather have fun as a group instead of building the most maximized murderhobo possible.

[TxSam88]

We totally ignore the age adjustments, in fact a characters age pretty much never comes up in game.

[Sah]

I'm just surprised nobody has mad a joke about enforcing age penalties on this thread.

We've only used aging penalties once in my group, in a campaign where there were a couple time skips (actually killed one of the players, I want to say he was a goblin? It was a really short life span compared to the rest of the party).

[HighLordNiteshade]

Sah wrote:

I'm just surprised nobody has mad a joke about enforcing age penalties on this thread.

As someone born in the late 60s I resemble that remark...

[Kir'Eshe]

VoodistMonk wrote:

I enforce the adjustments, but don't give too much concern as to the characters' ages. If the player is using a specific age bracket FOR the stat adjustments, then I make sure to take note and incorporate other appropriate age-related things for that character. Otherwise, I don't care how old your character is.

My table is really solid, though, and the players don't do dumb $#!+ that might affect the game just to make their individual character a little bit better... weird, I know, but it's almost like they would rather have fun as a group instead of building the most maximized murderhobo possible.

My murderhobo will wipe your party!

Joking aside, it's only part of a character. Bumping this leaves room for tweaking some character fluff, while still meeting obligations to allies.

It doesn't really effect the game as my character has lowest rolled stats of the group.

[Insapateh]

RAW is to apply them because of the order in which character creation is outlined in the CRB:

1. Determine ability scores.
2. Choose race.
3. Choose class.

Since race determines what age category your 45 year old character falls into, the changes are applied from that point.

If the campaign was one that would require multiple years in game time, I'd probably make a player take the bonuses and penalties.

Otherwise, if you don't take the bonuses, I'm not going to make you take the penalties.

[NorthernDruid]

I mean, it's part of the rules. And in my opinion, part of what would be interesting playing such a character. I tend to favour impactful character traits having a rules bound impact and not just a fluff one. They might not be incredibly realistic, but I think it's nice that there's at least something.

Besides, the bonuses/penalties is at most a +/-3 to each attribute, which I guess can contribute to a +/-2 bonus. even for optimization purposes that's not the worst thing ever, though I might be a bit sceptical to a full caster or a mostly-caster looking to min-max mental stats hard. (There's a point where a +2 to a mental bonus gives the enemy a third as high a chance to succeed their saves after all).

In the circles I play with though, I'd never really worry about it being a case of optimization over conceptualization.

If I was the GM and a player wanted to be old but not have to deal with the penalties I'd probably try andcompromise by building a youth-potion (or a wish-reward) into the campaign midway in.

[DeathlessOne]

Age penalties make for interesting character arcs, sometimes.

I'm currently playing a venerable Aasimar barbarian (VMC Wizard) in a Tyrant's Grasp campaign that started out addled in the head, thinking he was a wizard because he woke up in robes (night gown), had a few magic wands (actually wands), and had a book filled with arcane writing that he could read. Surviving the first level with effectively 10 AC, +2 Fort/Ref, +3 Will saves and 12 HP was hilarious. He basically had 10 STR/DEX/CON and 15-16 INT/WIS/CHA.

Once the character hit level 2, and got a rage power (SPRING RAGE), he was a BEAST in combat. We are currently at level 9 and he still doesn't wear armor. Fancy wizard robes. Telekinetic powers to throw around his quarterstaff when he isnt raging. Can adopt animalistic aspects when he rages (built in flight), an armor class that increases in a rage, and the ability to turn invisible at will.

Aside from all the mechanical fun I am having, the role playing opportunities are endless with this character. Slowly regaining the prowess of his youth and combining it with the wisdom of his advanced age, he has begun to see that youth truly is wasted on the young. His goal is to eventually find a way to regain his youth permanently, through an Arcane Discovery.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Insapateh wrote:

RAW is to apply them because of the order in which character creation is outlined in the CRB:

1. Determine ability scores.
2. Choose race.
3. Choose class.

I've always done it in the reverse order.

1: pick what class I want to play this time
2: pick a race that will be a good fit mechanically, or provide a complimentary set of abilities/opportunities
3: use whatever ability score method the GM has determined to make it work as best I can

[Sysryke]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Insapateh wrote:

RAW is to apply them because of the order in which character creation is outlined in the CRB:

1. Determine ability scores.
2. Choose race.
3. Choose class.

I've always done it in the reverse order.

1: pick what class I want to play this time
2: pick a race that will be a good fit mechanically, or provide a complimentary set of abilities/opportunities
3: use whatever ability score method the GM has determined to make it work as best I can

Both of these lists are correct. The RAW is telling you the mechanical order of operations for building the mechanics of the character. Just like PEMDAS for equations.

Your list, @Darigaaz, is a method for developing the flavor/concept of a character. It's actually pretty close to how I build. But when it's time to actually start recording the numbers, then the RAW kicks into gear.