Type: Rapier is one handed (finnese usable)and shortsword is off-hand*
Damage:Same 1d6
Critical both X2, rapier 18-20 shortsword 19-20
Cost: shortsword 10 gp rapier 20 gp
special properties:
A rapier can be two-handed for a one and a half additional strength damageThe rapier is better in all terms except cost (only 10 gp more)
why should someone choose the shortsword and not the rapier?*they both weigh the same!
There are not to many DR/piercing monsters out there.
If you use the critical hit deck it seems the slashing criticals are the most vicious.The short sword is good for TWF. The rapier imposes a heavier penalty if used in the offhand.
edit :I just noticed shortswords are piercing.
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twf with rapiers is harder (only -2/-2 with short sword). twf with short swords mean weapon focus, specialization, ect are more productive
also, not everyone is proficient with rapier,but are with short sword (monks)
solo weapon fighting? rapier, definitely. TWF and spending feats on weapons? go with short sword
A rapier can't be two-handed for a one and a half additional strength damage
Emphasis mine.
I have a rogue that uses short swords. They can be hidden, rapiers cannot.
You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage.
That's what core says.
thorindale: check again in the core rulebook.
EDIT: I ment that you can use 1-1/2 your strength modifier.
Page 148, in the Rapier description it says "You can't weild a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times you Strength bonus to damage."
Really? Thats funny. I just read it does. In the weapon description part.You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage.
That's what core says.
You are reading it wrong, or your book is different from the other ones and they deleted the "'t" part
My book says "can't" also.
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So, if I understand correctly:
If you want to TWF: shortsword.
If you want one weapon: rapier.
correct?
If you are planning on investing heavily down Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Crit, etc. -- feats that apply to a single weapon -- and are two weapon fighting, paired short swords are better than paired rapiers.
If you aren't planning on heavy investment in those feats that only apply to one weapon, then two-weapon fight with whatever you want main hand and any light weapon off hand.
If you aren't two-weapon fighting, rapiers are better than shortswords in all except a few specific situations: grappling, swallowed whole, hiding a weapon on your person are the only ones I can think of right away.
I've always wonder just how effective would a rapier be against a person in full plate armor in real life. Sure there would be opening somewhere I'd assume where you could pierce though but getting at them would extremely difficult I'd think.
I should ask my supervisor at work, he's been fencing for 35 years and is still active in the local fencing club.
I've always wonder just how effective would a rapier be against a person in full plate armor in real life. Sure there would be opening somewhere I'd assume where you could pierce though but getting at them would extremely difficult I'd think.
I should ask my supervisor at work, he's been fencing for 35 years and is still active in the local fencing club.
Stab in the eye slot.
Sawing motion.
I dunno. I just assume it'd go like that.
I've always wonder just how effective would a rapier be against a person in full plate armor in real life. Sure there would be opening somewhere I'd assume where you could pierce though but getting at them would extremely difficult I'd think.
I should ask my supervisor at work, he's been fencing for 35 years and is still active in the local fencing club.
Keep in mind a rapier is not the same thing as a fencing foil. Rapiers are much more stiff and if pushed at a 90 degree angle could pierce steel in some cases.
Here are some pics Rapier Wiki.
I've always wonder just how effective would a rapier be against a person in full plate armor in real life. Sure there would be opening somewhere I'd assume where you could pierce though but getting at them would extremely difficult I'd think.
I should ask my supervisor at work, he's been fencing for 35 years and is still active in the local fencing club.
Same way ALL piercing weapons work - find the gap.
If anything the question would be "how effective would a slashing weapon be?"
I've always wonder just how effective would a rapier be against a person in full plate armor in real life. Sure there would be opening somewhere I'd assume where you could pierce though but getting at them would extremely difficult I'd think.
I should ask my supervisor at work, he's been fencing for 35 years and is still active in the local fencing club.
Same way ALL piercing weapons work - find the gap.
If anything the question would be "how effective would a slashing weapon be?"
Well Slashing weapons are a bit of a misnomer in the western world anyway, the axe and broadsword did have an edge but said edge rarely lasted beyond the first blow or ...the real "cuttiing" came from pressure induced skin spliting... A broadsword of Western Europe actually has more in common with a crowbar that say a Katana from Japan or a Scimitar from the Middle East, the armor would protect some but the padding beneath the armor was as often as important as the steel on top...
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Well Slashing weapons are a bit of a misnomer in the western world anyway, the axe and broadsword did have an edge but said edge rarely lasted beyond the first blow or ...the real "cuttiing" came from pressure induced skin spliting... A broadsword of Western Europe actually has more in common with a crowbar that say a Katana from Japan or a Scimitar from the Middle East, the armor would protect some but the padding beneath the armor was as often as important as the steel on top...I've always wonder just how effective would a rapier be against a person in full plate armor in real life. Sure there would be opening somewhere I'd assume where you could pierce though but getting at them would extremely difficult I'd think.
I should ask my supervisor at work, he's been fencing for 35 years and is still active in the local fencing club.
Same way ALL piercing weapons work - find the gap.
If anything the question would be "how effective would a slashing weapon be?"
Very very wrong. I have seen nihonto with newly polished egdes that were not as sharp as some western swords. ALL swords fall within the certain level of sharpness...period. There is such a thing as too sharp for a sword that is gonna be used for fighting. As there is too dull.
Exactly what am I wrong about... I never stated thatthere wasn't a level of sharpness that was too sharp or not sharp enough... I merely pointed out that certain swords rely more on the sharpness of the blade... Curved weapon in particular as they are designed for fighting from horseback... or in the case of the katana, an adaptation of a weapon originally used from horseback, the original samurai were deadly cavalry particularly horse archers...and btw I restore antique and authentic weaponry and my experience goes beyond SEEING.. my current project is a Pre-Revolution French court rapier that was rescued from a ruin after hurricane Katrina but thats neither here nor there,
But my point about Western Weapons is to the root of the post, Swords you see in Museums and Stores are essentially stylized versions, I suggest you research into the Weapons found a Baddon Hill, or Sutton Hoo for your examples instead. My years and degree studying medieval technology and society has led me to find that many common misconceptions are held about things Medieval
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Same way ALL piercing weapons work - find the gap.
A piercing weapon with leverage is pretty effective: a pick, or something like a lucerne hammer. Rapiers, lacking leverage to push the pointy end, aren't really effective against plate armor. Which is why plate-armored knights didn't run around with rapiers.
But this is D&D, not reality.
Same way ALL piercing weapons work - find the gap.A piercing weapon with leverage is pretty effective: a pick, or something like a lucerne hammer. Rapiers, lacking leverage to push the pointy end, aren't really effective against plate armor. Which is why plate-armored knights didn't run around with rapiers.
But this is D&D, not reality.
Agreed, the fulcrum force of a Pick or Lucern Hammer was great for punching plate, that Rapier was best aimed at the throat, joints or eyes where the armoring had to be lighter and more flexible for mobility, essentially it would require more skill and precision (or luck) for the rapier armed fellow to take down the plated knight. The fellow with the spike just need to land a solid blow and lots PSI do the heavy lifting
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Exactly what am I wrong about... I never stated thatthere wasn't a level of sharpness that was too sharp or not sharp enough... I merely pointed out that certain swords rely more on the sharpness of the blade... Curved weapon in particular as they are designed for fighting from horseback... or in the case of the katana, an adaptation of a weapon originally used from horseback, the original samurai were deadly cavalry particularly horse archers...and btw I restore antique and authentic weaponry and my experience goes beyond SEEING.. my current project is a Pre-Revolution French court rapier that was rescued from a ruin after hurricane Katrina but thats neither here nor there,
But my point about Western Weapons is to the root of the post, Swords you see in Museums and Stores are essentially stylized versions, I suggest you research into the Weapons found a Baddon Hill, or Sutton Hoo for your examples instead. My years and degree studying medieval technology and society has led me to find that many common misconceptions are held about things Medieval
You know...funny thing, really...Curved swords are better from horseback when your PAST the target. They are poor weapons to target enemies infront of you. This is from ACTUALLY using sabres from horseback. The straight sword lets you engage a target sooner and so are actually the BETTER horseback weapon...unless your like giving your enemies time to stab at you before you can even retaliate. And the best of all is a spear or lance anyways...and not a sword at all. Yes I realize that a LOT of text has been written about how curved blades are better from horseback...but if you actually TRY it, you find your effective range comes up sooner with a straight sword and that makes for a HUGE difference in combat. With the power of the horse, honestly the slightly better cutting ability of the curved blade does not make up for having to wait that split second to engage the enemy.
So you think a katana relies on sharpness...well my sensei has an antique nihonto that is dull enough that I can grab the blade with my bare hands and stab with it. This is exactly how sharp this sword is suppose to be. I can cut a triple mat with 1 inch hardwood core with this sword. Relies on sharpness my arse. The niku matters more edge sharpness...that is to say the blade geometry is more important then the edge. This is true for a katana, shamshir or a type XII sword.
As for drawing conclusion of how weapons were used...you do realize that plate wasn't even used in the two sites you mentioned. Not to mention if there was ANY find that actually does give difinative proof how the weapon system of that era worked, well that would be news to me...and pretty much ANY historian I know...and they should be a bloody millionaire as there is a HUGE market for such knoweldge in the WMA community. As it stands we know next to NOTHING about how those weapons were used as there is NO surviving primary texts on the matter...hell there isn't even any secondary text on the matter. The best option is experimential archeology with using the text of Fiore or talhoffer et all as a reference point.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Exactly what am I wrong about... I never stated thatthere wasn't a level of sharpness that was too sharp or not sharp enough... I merely pointed out that certain swords rely more on the sharpness of the blade... Curved weapon in particular as they are designed for fighting from horseback... or in the case of the katana, an adaptation of a weapon originally used from horseback, the original samurai were deadly cavalry particularly horse archers...and btw I restore antique and authentic weaponry and my experience goes beyond SEEING.. my current project is a Pre-Revolution French court rapier that was rescued from a ruin after hurricane Katrina but thats neither here nor there,
But my point about Western Weapons is to the root of the post, Swords you see in Museums and Stores are essentially stylized versions, I suggest you research into the Weapons found a Baddon Hill, or Sutton Hoo for your examples instead. My years and degree studying medieval technology and society has led me to find that many common misconceptions are held about things Medieval
You know...funny thing, really...Curved swords are better from horseback when your PAST the target. They are poor weapons to target enemies infront of you. This is from ACTUALLY using sabres from horseback. The straight sword lets you engage a target sooner and so are actually the BETTER horseback weapon...unless your like giving your enemies time to stab at you before you can even retaliate. And the best of all is a spear or lance anyways...and not a sword at all. Yes I realize that a LOT of text has been written about how curved blades are better from horseback...but if you actually TRY it, you find your effective range comes up sooner with a straight sword and that makes for a HUGE difference in combat. With the power of the horse, honestly the slightly better cutting ability of the curved blade does not make up for having to wait that split second to engage the enemy.
So you think a katana relies on sharpness...well my...
To add to the curved cavalry weapons discussion, see http://www.pattonhq.com/sword.html.
Well Slashing weapons are a bit of a misnomer in the western world anyway, the axe and broadsword did have an edge but said edge rarely lasted beyond the first blow or ...the real "cuttiing" came from pressure induced skin spliting... A broadsword of Western Europe actually has more in common with a crowbar that say a Katana from Japan or a Scimitar from the Middle East, the armor would protect some but the padding beneath the armor was as often as important as the steel on top...
You must not have gotten the memo. For future reference, there are three things that you must never, ever do on the inter-tubes:
1. Use the word katana. Nothing good ever comes from it.
2. Discuss any activity that has re-enactors associated with it in anyway.
3. And you must absolutely never imply that, due to formal education or profession, your position has any more weight than, say, someone who sometimes watches the History Channel.
These are, of course, just guidelines. Except for the one about the "K" word. That one is law. Check your spam folder for the complete memo.
Hope this helps.
Well Slashing weapons are a bit of a misnomer in the western world anyway, the axe and broadsword did have an edge but said edge rarely lasted beyond the first blow or ...the real "cuttiing" came from pressure induced skin spliting... A broadsword of Western Europe actually has more in common with a crowbar that say a Katana from Japan or a Scimitar from the Middle East, the armor would protect some but the padding beneath the armor was as often as important as the steel on top...
You must not have gotten the memo. For future reference, there are three things that you must never, ever do on the inter-tubes:
1. Use the word katana. Nothing good ever comes from it.
2. Discuss any activity that has re-enactors associated with it in anyway.
3. And you must absolutely never imply that, due to formal education or profession, your position has any more weight than, say, someone who sometimes watches the History Channel.
These are, of course, just guidelines. Except for the one about the "K" word. That one is law. Check your spam folder for the complete memo.
Hope this helps.
Jake forgot to tell you the only thing more powerful than a katana is chuck norris, and that is debatable also.
Jake forgot to tell you the only thing more powerful than a katana is chuck norris, and that is debatable also.
I think it depends on whether it (the "K" word) uses steel that was folded a gazillion times or a kabillion times.
Wait...Chuck Norries using three Katanas!
Then you die. But the awesomeness of your death ensures you a place in kung-fu heaven.
"I will have you know that the Katana is not the best blade ever. Now thats the Abyssal Katanna! Unholy gods! we run those suckers though 10'000 wannabe ninja's just to test em. "
"I will have you know that the Katana is not the best blade ever. Now thats the Abyssal Katanna! Unholy gods! we run those suckers though 10'000 wannabe ninja's just to test em. "
That has nothing to with the katana. It has to do with the fact that the more ninjas there are, the easier they are to kill as documented here
Unless you divide by zero.
I divide reality by zero.
"Really?,damn." Throws down Katana "Now what am I suppose to do with em? We got like 1'200 crates of the damned things!" Etches the words "Holy avenger " on the blades "I think I have found a use"
"I am just helping. Can't a Demon Lord offer a little help to the hard working paladins out there, shesh so picky. Ya try to do something nice and see what I get." Walks off muddering something about succubi being more fun
What if Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks a katana at your head? Then what? Dammit, then WAT DO???!!!?!?!?!1111one1
Chuck Norris' fist shatters upon the Chin of Bruce Campbell.