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No matter what you do as a GM or a player, you can only get credit (e.g. experience & prestige) for it one time, and then if you need to replay it (to fill up a table), you use a pre-generated character.
From pg 18 of the PFS Guide ver2.2:
"If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right
to ask you to leave the table and is under no obligation
to reward you a chronicle sheet."
This would suggest that a chronicle sheet is given to all players, even those that replay. Also, there is nothing that says that a person who has previously GM'd the scenario, cannot play it with a character of their own making as a replay. And all the wording suggests that even when you replay you get a chronicle sheet, unless you are playing a pregen.
If I lived in a more populous PFS area, this wouldn't be such an issue for me. As it is, there is only one other PFS player in my town and we have to travel anywhere from 80 to 120 miles in order to play. So replays are a big deal for us.
Hm...good point. It makes no sense to me to get a chronicle sheet for a replay. I'm interested in hearing the explanation too, then.
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Hm...good point. It makes no sense to me to get a chronicle sheet for a replay. I'm interested in hearing the explanation too, then.
You are probably thinking of the pre-2.2 rules. In reading the latest version it seems pretty clear you get a chronicle during a replay (page 18). There is a very specific set of circumstances to even consider replay detailed in that section.
You are probably thinking of the pre-2.2 rules. In reading the latest version it seems pretty clear you get a chronicle during a replay (page 18).
Right, but what do you use it for?
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You are probably thinking of the pre-2.2 rules. In reading the latest version it seems pretty clear you get a chronicle during a replay (page 18).Right, but what do you use it for?
My understanding is that since you replayed with a different character, the new character would get the chronicle sheet and would advance normally per standard rules.
Technically, though highly unlikely, with each scenario you could run it multiple times and also play it five times. Like I said, highly unlikely.
Technically, though highly unlikely, with each scenario you could run it multiple times and also play it five times. Like I said, highly unlikely.
Okay, obviously I need to study the new rules more closely. :-)
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Mark helped clarify, my initial response was just a bit off. To help a bit more:
If you have only PLAYED in a scenario:
You may replay it if you are needed to make a legal table, so long as you use a new character of a new faction. You can get credit and a chronicle sheet for this.
If you have RUN the scenario:
You may only replay it if you are needed to make a legal table, so long as you play a 'silent' pregen. There is no credit.
The difference here, I imagine, is because if you're run the scenario then you are privy to much more information than players that have just played in it once or twice. You know the exact stats, exactly how to complete faction missions, everything. A player doing a new character of a different faction won't necessarily know how to complete their new missions, still won't know the exact stats of everything, and might even be in a new tier.
Hopefully I didn't miss anything this time.
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The Most important thing to remember, IMO, about Play, Play, Play! and replay is it should be used sparingly. It should be a rare occurrence, if there is an option open that would make it that you did not have to replay a scenario, that option should be taken first. IMO, if you find you are always replaying, you should take another look at how you are setting up the game.
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Where are you seeing the part about not being able to replay if you have GM'd? I don't see this in the guide and in the original changes thread, Josh had indicated to someone if they'd GM'd a year zero, they could replay it (to make a legal table)and would receive a chronicle for it. Just wondering where the GMs not being able to replay came from? Thanks!
You know, I'm not sure. I know in the last version it said that, but can't find the language in this one. I found the bit Mark was talking about, playing a silent pre-gen, although was a bit inaccurate with my bit above. A GM of a game can play a silent pre-gen to help out, but a person that's run a game and now playing in it for a different GM? Not sure.
Hm.
This is my understanding from what has been posted by Josh in these forums and by what is written in v2.2 of the Guide.
The confusing part is that when it talks about replaying, it does not specifically mention a GM playing a scenario that he has already run. But remember, the chronicle sheet the GM got for that scenario makes it as if that character was played. If you are writing a character history, it would say the character played that scenario, even though the chronicle sheet was gotten from being a GM. The Guide also says that a player is allowed to read a scenario after they have played in it, which is basically the same as a Gm reading it before running it. Both have more knowledge than someone who has not read it. This is where the not spoiling the plot and not using player knowledge on a replay comes in.
Anyway, after that rambling, I am pretty sure that a GM playing a scenario after having run it would be treated the same as a player replaying a scenario. He can only play it with a different character that is also of a different faction in order to earn a chronicle sheet for that new character. If all this gets sticky, maybe Josh should just rule that on a replay, the faction PA cannot be earned because a GM who has run it knows all the missions and a player could have read the scenario after the initial play and know the other missions as well. Actually, now that replay is possible for credit for other characters, maybe the bit about a player being allowed to read a scenario after playing in it should be taken out altogether.
The wizard gets a special break on scroll costs. Does this extend to the witch as well or no?
No. The witch is likely the class that will get the most changes in the final APG. For now, I don't want to establish a precedent for how their spell-collecting and memorizing goes as it'll likely change.
I see that everything in Adventurers Armory is legal ...
The listing for the AA in Chapter 13 of the Guide is correct.
Hi Josh, loving the facebook updates but a quick question; ina recent pfs module my summoners eidolon was bitten and gained a disease, i have asked elsewhere and their are different answers to what the optiosn are in removing the diesese via restoration/ remove diesease or as a summoned creature the disease would disappear after it goes and is retunred...
It's important to note that the eidolon is NOT a summoned creature. It is a called creature. There's a huge difference, rules-wise (a called creature cannot benefit from the Augment Summoning feat, for example).
Since an eidolon returns to the material plane with any damage it had when it left, I would say that if the eidolon left with a disease then it returns with the disease.
re: the Replay Issue:
Relevant bits from 2.2 of the Guide:
Replaying Scenarios
Replay is legal as of 2.2, but only in this manner:
• You may only replay a scenario in order to follow the
“Play, Play, Play” rule to make sure a legal table happens.
This means that if you previously played a scenario but the
only way to make a legal 4-person table is for you to replay
it again, relay is now allowed. From another perspective,
if three of the four players have already played a scenario
but the forth player has not, the three players may elect to
replay the scenario to ensure the fourth is part of a legal
table. You may not replay a scenario just for the fun of it.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same faction
as when you played it before.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same character
as when you played it before.
• If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right
to ask you to leave the table and is under no obligation
to reward you a chronicle sheet. Be very careful about
character knowledge versus player knowledge. If you’re
concerned about possibly spoiling something during the
course of play, take the GM aside and ask how he would like
it handled. Remember: the goal of replay is to make sure
fun gaming happens, not to remove the fun from gaming.
Replay will likely not happen very often, but it adds
an extra weapon to the arsenal of GMs who run smaller
game sessions and often have trouble finding a scenario
that fits all of the players present. We removed the player
check in the reporting system that caught whether or not
you had played the scenario before. That check has been
replaced with a character check and will inform you when
your character has played a scenario before (and thus not
count it).
and
A GM may only apply a
chronicle from a specific scenario to one of his PCs one
time—in other words, he may only receive character credit
for GMing scenario 29 once. Any additional sessions
GMing that scenario are for no additional credit, but will
of course apply to his GM Ranking.
The specific issue to address is whether or not a GM who previously received GM credit for a scenario may then also receive character credit on another character/faction by replaying the scenario under the Play Play Play rule. The answer is yes. What a GM may not do, is ever take GM credit for a scenario twice. He can GM #29, for example, and apply that GM credit to his Taldor faction rogue. Once he's done that, he may never apply GM credit to another of his characters for #29. Should he, however, be needed to play #29 later in order to make a legal table, he may do so with a character that is not his Taldor faction rogue--it would need to be a different character from a different faction and he would receive character credit as normal.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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Thanks for the clarification, Josh. This helps tremendously! I was in risk of loosing GMs for the convention due to an interpretation of the "Play, Play, Play" rule; in essence, some of my GMs were afraid to some story arc scenarios, since they would be unable to complete them with (in character) if they took a GM credit, even if they applied it as a "future credit" to an alternate/different faction PC.
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Thanks for the clarification, Josh. This helps tremendously! I was in risk of loosing GMs for the convention due to an interpretation of the "Play, Play, Play" rule; in essence, some of my GMs were afraid to some story arc scenarios, since they would be unable to complete them with (in character) if they took a GM credit, even if they applied it as a "future credit" to an alternate/different faction PC.
technically they still can't complete them in character if the table is a legal table without them and they have the option of joining a legal table without replay.. replay should be done as a last resort.
Edit: Changed my wording a bit to be more accurate
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The wizard gets a special break on scroll costs. Does this extend to the witch as well or no?No. The witch is likely the class that will get the most changes in the final APG. For now, I don't want to establish a precedent for how their spell-collecting and memorizing goes as it'll likely change.
So for now if a witch teaches a familiar a spell during an adventure, in order to keep access to that spell on her familiar she'll need to spend the gold as if she had bought the scroll, correct?
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Replay and GM Credit Clarifications
I've tried to combine my understanding of the replay and GM credit rules into a set of rules/propositions as there seem to be lots of questions about them, and it would be very useful to know if I've got this right!
Are the following correct?
* If you have played an adventure:
1) You may GM it as often as you like. If the first time you GM it is after 6th April 2010, you receive GM credit which must be applied to a character which has not played the adventure.
2) You may play it again, before or after you GM it, if (and only if) at a given gathering of players you are needed in order to form a table of four, subject to the absolute rule below.
* If you have GM'd an adventure:
1) If you did so for the first time after 6th April 2010, you may apply full GM credit to a character which has not played the it, and then GM it as often as you like for no credit.
2) If you first did so prior to operation the partial GM credit rules, but did not GM it again during the operation of those rules, you may GM it again for full GM credit, and then GM it as often as you like for no credit.
3) If you first did so during the operation of the partial GM credit rules, you may GM it as often as you like but gain no credit beyond the partial credit you gained when you first GM'd it.
4) You may play it, if (and only if) at a given gathering of players you are needed in order to form a table of four, subject to the absolute rule below. You may then replay it under the same circumstances.
All of the above are subject to this absolute rule: no player may receive credit from a single scenario for the same character more than once, and no player may play a scenario with more than one character from each faction. Applying GM credit to a character counts as 'playing' it with that character, and from that faction, for all purposes.
If you cannot comply with the absolute rule and this threatens the viability of a game, you may play a pre-generated character appropriate to the tier in order to permit the game to go ahead but receive no credit for doing so.
Anyone with actual knowledge of the content of the adventure must be careful to comply with the rule that "If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no obligation to reward you a chronicle sheet."
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I thought so too, but then Josh said this:
You should probably note that you only receive a chronicle and XP, gp, etc. if the first time you GM the module you haven't already played it (if you're eating the module). GMs don't receive XP, GP, etc. for modules they've previously played, just credit towards GM stars is my understanding.
They can get GM credit for a scenario once. So if they already played it and then run it, they can apply their GM credit to a different character with a different faction from the character/faction with which they originally played the scenario. Having played a scenario doesn't mean you can no longer get credit for GMing it.
So for now if a witch teaches a familiar a spell during an adventure, in order to keep access to that spell on her familiar she'll need to spend the gold as if she had bought the scroll, correct?
For now, yes.
Depends on what you mean.
For the star rating GMs get credit for being the GM listed at the top of the form as the GM.
If they are taking GM credit for their character, then they need to add their character to the bottom of the reporting form as a player.
Is the Master Craftsman feat legal for PFS play? It's not actually an item creation feat, but it is stronger than Skill Focus. If legal, does it count toward day jobs? My gut says yes on both accounts, but it came up in a game tonight and I just want to make sure.
It's better to say, that each time you GM a session of Pathfinder Society, that session counts +1 toward your GM star rating.
The way you phrased it could be misconstrued to mean GM credit for a GM's character and I'd rather avoid the confusion. :-)
I don't know why this post from last night doesn't show up here. If it pops up later, sorry for the repetition.
Is the Master Craftsman feat legal for PFS play? It's not actually an item creation feat, but it is stronger than Skill Focus. If legal, does it count toward day jobs? My gut says yes on both accounts, but it came up in a game tonight and I just want to make sure.
Is the Master Craftsman feat legal for PFS play? It's not actually an item creation feat, but it is stronger than Skill Focus.
If Craft Magic Arms & Armor and Craft Wondrous Items are banned, how is it stronger than Skill Focus? It would only provide +2 to a single Craft or Profession skill, as far as I can tell.
Is the Master Craftsman feat legal for PFS play? It's not actually an item creation feat, but it is stronger than Skill Focus.If Craft Magic Arms & Armor and Craft Wondrous Items are banned, how is it stronger than Skill Focus? It would only provide +2 to a single Craft or Profession skill, as far as I can tell.
Hmm, you're right. We play in a location with very low lighting and for whatever reason we were reading it as giving a +5. Seems the numbers were getting all jumbled around in the dark. In any case, is it correct that this feat is legal and counts toward day job rolls?
Yes it's legal and yes it gives a feat bonus so it would apply to the Day Job roll.
It seems a rather pointless feat, though, given that Skill Focus is just as good in PFS and has no prereqs, But I could see someone wanting to stack SF and MC.
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I have a few questions that I couldn't find the answers to. If they're out there, I apologize. I'm asking these questions in the context of playing a cleric of Asmodeus focusing on conjuration.
1) The customized summon list on page 67 of Mother of Flies includes a "Cerberai" as a choice for a cleric of Asmodeus with summon monster iv. Are the stats for the "Cerberai" the same as the stats for the Cerberi on page 84 of Infernal Syndrome? If not, where are they?
2) The spell description for lesser planar ally on page 320 of the Core Rulebook says a character can request a specific individual if they know their name. Is this the only way to influence what kind of ally your deity sends you?
3) Page 71 of the Bestiary lists barbazus and hamatulas as lesser devils. Page 42 of Princes of Darkness details ways in which a character can research a lesser devil's true name (DC 25 Knowledge (planes) check after a month of research). Does this apply to characters in Societies as well? If so, how is it implemented?
4) Page 321 of the Core Rulebook states, "A nonhazardous task requires only half the indicated payment, while an especially hazardous task might require a greater gift... However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment." Are there any non-discretionary rules that determine these factors? What kind of tasks, in societies, would qualify as being aligned with a devil's ethos? For example, if a cleric of Asmodeus working for the Cheliax faction wanted to call a barbazu or a hamatula at the beginning of a scenario for assistance during the scenario, primarily in combat, in order to better accomplish the goals of the faction and his deity, would that provide any general discount? or an increase? Is this up to the discretion of an individual GM?
5) How would the Diabolist's 'infernal bargain' class feature interact with any potential discount discussed in question 4, above? Does this make the payment a quarter of the total cost?
6) It has been said in other places that, in order to qualify for the Diabolist prestige class, a character in Societies is assumed to have completed the task if he is capable of casting lesser planar ally and has paid the fee. I would expect that this fee would be based on the cost of an Imp (3 HD in Bestiary, p.78) doing a day-rate, nonhazardous task, making the total cost of the prestige class entrance fee 1,500 gp. Is this accurate? Can a DM say that your deity decides to send you a 6 HD bearded devil instead and double the cost? Are there any circumstances in which the cost could be further lowered?
7) On page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, the book says, alternately, that a player may have, "one combat animal and as many non-combat animals as you like," and "you can have a mount, a pet, and your class-granted animals." How would these limitations impact a cleric/diabolist who would want his imp companion, at least one called devil ally, and summon monster spells. On a related note, does this prevent any caster from using summon monster to summon 1d3 lesser monsters?
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7) On page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, the book says, alternately, that a player may have, "one combat animal and as many non-combat animals as you like," and "you can have a mount, a pet, and your class-granted animals." How would these limitations impact a cleric/diabolist who would want his imp companion, at least one called devil ally, and summon monster spells. On a related note, does this prevent any caster from using summon monster to summon 1d3 lesser monsters?
Summoned Monsters are not "combat animals" for the purposes of this rule. They are a product of a spell, and are affected by rules as such. So, yes you should be able to summon 1d3 lesser monsters perfectly fine.
Hey, Malis, I'm going to answer your questions below that pertain to the Pathfinder Society and refer all of the rest of them to the Rules Forum. Thanks!
3) Page 71 of the Bestiary lists barbazus and hamatulas as lesser devils. Page 42 of Princes of Darkness details ways in which a character can research a lesser devil's true name (DC 25 Knowledge (planes) check after a month of research). Does this apply to characters in Societies as well? If so, how is it implemented?
Your GM can make the check once per scenario at the end of the scenario as all restrictions/frequencies that are greater than 1/day are considered to be 1/scenario in Pathfinder Society. With your GM, just invent the name of whatever you want to summon and have the GM make the check for that specifically named creature. You'll need to note that you successfully gained the name (if you do) on the "Conditions Gained" portion of that chronicle sheet.
4) Page 321 of the Core Rulebook states, "A nonhazardous task requires only half the indicated payment, while an especially hazardous task might require a greater gift... However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment." Are there any non-discretionary rules that determine these factors? What kind of tasks, in societies, would qualify as being aligned with a devil's ethos? For example, if a cleric of Asmodeus working for the Cheliax faction wanted to call a barbazu or a hamatula at the beginning of a scenario for assistance during the scenario, primarily in combat, in order to better accomplish the goals of the faction and his deity, would that provide any general discount? or an increase? Is this up to the discretion of an individual GM?
Assume the price listed in the spell and then halve it if you're asking for a mundane, non-dangerous task. Don't worry about the "especially hazardous" bit as that's hard to adjudicate.
6) It has been said in other places that, in order to qualify for the Diabolist prestige class, a character in Societies is assumed to have completed the task if he is capable of casting lesser planar ally and has paid the fee. I would expect that this fee would be based on the cost of an Imp (3 HD in Bestiary, p.78) doing a day-rate, nonhazardous task, making the total cost of the prestige class entrance fee 1,500 gp. Is this accurate? Can a DM say that your deity decides to send you a 6 HD bearded devil instead and double the cost? Are there any circumstances in which the cost could be further lowered?
I can see no circumstances by which the cost can be lowered. I leave the adjudication to your GM.
7) On page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, the book says, alternately, that a player may have, "one combat animal and as many non-combat animals as you like," and "you can have a mount, a pet, and your class-granted animals." How would these limitations impact a cleric/diabolist who would want his imp companion, at least one called devil ally, and summon monster spells. On a related note, does this prevent any caster from using summon monster to summon 1d3 lesser monsters?
This section pertains to animal companions and has no bearing on creatures summoned or called via spells.
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DOH! [...] Funny no one, including me, caught it until now .... :-/
Alright, just for the sake of completeness, I'm going to ask this. I DO NOT want to open a whole discussion about "why isn't this legal" or "why isn't that legal" .... It's just a question to ensure no oversight was made.
The BladeBinder feat from "Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting".
Was this left out intentionally? (Or just persecuting the poor, downtrodden Osirion People?) Totally just kidding!
If you happen to feel like offering a brief note on how this really is overpowered or somesuch, I would be grateful to hear it. I've wondered since the beginning if it was accidental, since t's on a wierd page, by itself.
Thanks. :D
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I think the reason it was left out was because the whole CMB/CMD system was added, and for Blade Binding to stay in it would need to be re-written to work with the new system. The Society rules just lists what can be added as is, with very minor conversion (reduce skill requirements for 3.5 prestiges by 3, change spot to perception, etc.). Blade Binding would require a big larger conversion. Who knows, maybe it will be re-done when the new Campaign Setting is released and then added to the allowed Society rules. :)
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... Blade Binding would require a big larger conversion. Who knows, maybe it will be re-done when the new Campaign Setting is released and then added to the allowed Society rules. :)
We can certainly hope for that, but I don't hink that it would take any more of a re-write than anything else that's been fixed for PfRPG. It would just have to be noted that instead of an "opposed attack roll", one makes a CMB roll.
But, like I said, we can always hope for the revised Campaign Setting.
I DO NOT want to open a whole discussion about "why isn't this legal" or "why isn't that legal" .... It's just a question to ensure no oversight was made.
That's cool, because I'm not going to open that whole discussion either! ;-)
Effective immediately, the elephant from Adventure's Armory is not legal for play. I will add this to the 2.3 update.
Is there an amusing anecdote to go with this change?
