The Osirion module is excellent, and I mean it. But wand rifles? Not so sure about that one.
. . . right?
Nope. Unless I was hallucinating when I saw it today.
What module is this, by the way.
Entombed with the Pharaohs. Like I said, no knock on it, actually is a very fun story - that one just threw me off a bit.
Right here:
Nope it is real and there was an in module reason for it and a lot of people have groaned since it was put out.I like them. I don't think they're overpowered (+1 to hit with Rays)and give some nice flavour to a "sniper" style caster.
The function aspect is fine, the problem is obviously with the mixing of modern weaponry and D&D magic. It's just very awkward.
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The function aspect is fine, the problem is obviously with the mixing of modern weaponry and D&D magic. It's just very awkward.Nope it is real and there was an in module reason for it and a lot of people have groaned since it was put out.I like them. I don't think they're overpowered (+1 to hit with Rays)and give some nice flavour to a "sniper" style caster.
Can you "sniper" style cast Cure Light Wounds?
:)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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The function aspect is fine, the problem is obviously with the mixing of modern weaponry and D&D magic. It's just very awkward.Nope it is real and there was an in module reason for it and a lot of people have groaned since it was put out.I like them. I don't think they're overpowered (+1 to hit with Rays)and give some nice flavour to a "sniper" style caster.
Golarion has guns (in Alkenstar) so I don't see it as too much of a stretch. I mean all it really is is something (a barrel) to help aim the rifle (the +1 to hit) and a mechanism to switch the wands over. I'm not a fan of the Bayonet sure, but it at least lets a Caster have a Weapon in hand since he needs both to use the Wand Rifle, as opposed to a single hand Wand + Weapon normally.
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heh heh... don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind. ;)Can you "sniper" style cast Cure Light Wounds?
:)
Better yet, do that FF8 (I think) thing where you swing and shoot at the same time. Swing Bayonet and Shoot of a Cure.
. . .So, Osirion has been searching the desert for secret relics to help them resume ruling the world, and that is what they find, rifles. . .
:)
I do agree that the modern feel the bring in do feels odd, but I also thing that it a really easy element to "discard" if you don't like it. Personally I think they are cool, gives a little extra for those who don't mind that modern feel.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Eh, there are a few elements from early modules that don't quite fit with the rest of the setting. It was a steep learning curve, and most of them were written/assigned long before Golarion was fully conceptualized. Something like this is much easier to take out of your game without much effect than Dragonfall, for example.
As a side note, I love these sorts of threads. Anything that lists something someone doesn't like and employs a snide, rhetorical question is always bound to be full of some meaningful discussion.
It's also an exotic weapon proficiency.
The cure light wounds would still require a touch.
People who hate guns, hate wand rifles, would also hate all of "The Red Planet"...
IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, DON'T USE IT! Don't prevent those of us who enjoy this kind of thing, I can't remember how many times I've seen someone mad that Alkenstar was in the Campaign Guide. The rules for guns were in the 3.0 DMG, but didn't make it in Pathfinder RPG.
I love Wand Rifles, I even made a bard for a game based on wand rifle usage.
+1 to my brother from another mother.
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Creative Director
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Yeah... it took us a bit to get the modules in line with the rest of the world, alas. We had a really clear vision of where we wanted to go with the world with the Adventure Path, but that vision took a bit to see all the way over to the modules. There's some fun stuff in there... but some stuff that just doesn't fit the rest of Golarion. Wand rifles are one of those "doesn't fit" elements.
Yeah... it took us a bit to get the modules in line with the rest of the world, alas. We had a really clear vision of where we wanted to go with the world with the Adventure Path, but that vision took a bit to see all the way over to the modules. There's some fun stuff in there... but some stuff that just doesn't fit the rest of Golarion. Wand rifles are one of those "doesn't fit" elements.
This is what I was getting at, thanks. And to those of you who like wand rifles keep shooting them all you want. I wasn't saying you shouldn't use them in your game. I was just saying that for me anything "gun" just doesn't feel right in a traditional S&S setting. Again nothing against the mod.
A History of Ashes has a picture of Ezren holding his staff like a rifle and shooting some orc with it.
Pretty frikkin' awesome.
A History of Ashes has a picture of Ezren holding his staff like a rifle and shooting some orc with it.
Pretty frikkin' awesome.
Hahaha! Yes, but did it look like a Red Ryder BB gun? Or was it just his staff, pointed at the orc?
For some reason, I just picture a Cad Bane type running around with 2 wand rifles of fireballs causing all sorts of problems for PCs
Hahaha! Yes, but did it look like a Red Ryder BB gun? Or was it just his staff, pointed at the orc?A History of Ashes has a picture of Ezren holding his staff like a rifle and shooting some orc with it.
Pretty frikkin' awesome.
Just his staff/cane, and it probably makes no sense to hold it like that because staves don't have recoil, but it still looks great.
The fans of rifle-state of Alkenstar will be in this thread shortly in order, ahem, shoot apart anybody who dislikes guns in fantasy :)
And we have pretty itchy trigger fingers. ;)
Hahaha! Yes, but did it look like a Red Ryder BB gun? Or was it just his staff, pointed at the orc?A History of Ashes has a picture of Ezren holding his staff like a rifle and shooting some orc with it.
Pretty frikkin' awesome.
He was just plain happy to see the orc.
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The fans of rifle-state of Alkenstar will be in this thread shortly in order, ahem, shoot apart anybody who dislikes guns in fantasy :)And we have pretty itchy trigger fingers. ;)
I dislike guns in fantasy. Ravenloft did it well (because technology levels are varied), but otherwise it is not cool, in my opinion.
Saddly, the idea that a Cleric could double-barrel blast someone with Cure Light Wounds was the only saving grace that Wand Rifles might have had, again in my opinion. :(
Going to have to guess you're not a fan of The Dark Tower, either.
Actually, neither have I. I just used it as a point of reference from those who enjoyed the series. Just thought I'd throw it out there.
A History of Ashes has a picture of Ezren holding his staff like a rifle and shooting some orc with it.
Actually, it's in Skeletons of Scarwall not History of Ashes. Note, I'm not correcting you to be petty, just because I was curious and had to look to find the pic, so I figured I'd save some time for anyone else who was doing the same.
A History of Ashes has a picture of Ezren holding his staff like a rifle and shooting some orc with it.Actually, it's in Skeletons of Scarwall not History of Ashes. Note, I'm not correcting you to be petty, just because I was curious and had to look to find the pic, so I figured I'd save some time for anyone else who was doing the same.
Page 14, to be exact. To me, it looks like he is steadying his aim, not bracing for the recoil.
Stefan
Is the material Open Content? If it is, could someone please post the info here? This sounds like something I need for some inspiration for Sarunia for a thing or two.
i like them.
maybe the word "rifle" is what is throwing you off - pretend it is a wand rod instead. this rod allows you attach two wands and interchange them as an free action and gives the circumstance bonus. now does it work?
Yes, this works, but now it's not a rifle and I'm not expected to use it like one.
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Is the material Open Content? If it is, could someone please post the info here? This sounds like something I need for some inspiration for Sarunia for a thing or two.
Here is the fluffy information for the wand rifle, no crunch though.
Wand rifles are cool. I want a wand gatling gun at some point.
Or maybe a fireball cannon. If it doesn't already exist.
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Creative Director
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Going to have to guess you're not a fan of The Dark Tower, either.
The Dark Tower series is EXCELLENT. One of the most incredible and amazing things Stephen King has ever written. It's also a VERY different world than Golarion, and a lot of creative choices that went into that world would not be right for Golarion.
Wand rifles are indeed open content. We'll never be doing anything with them again though, because they really don't make sense for Golarion. At all. Even in Alkenstar, where there are no rifles anyway.
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Wand rifles are indeed open content. We'll never be doing anything with them again though, because they really don't make sense for Golarion. At all. Even in Alkenstar, where there are no rifles anyway.
[joking]Can I get some errata (official or otherwise), that says I can double-barrel blast with Cure Light Wounds. . .
CLW Wand 12 guage
:) [end joking]
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Creative Director
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My only beef is the word 'rifle' musket would work better since it's not like the wands are rifled for greater accuracy.
Did people gripe this much about the wand crossbow from WotC's Arms and Equipment Guide?
Doubtful. I certainly wouldn't have griped if this version was something like that. It's a neat idea. It's just the word "rifle" that causes problems and makes it feel anachronistic. Well... the illustration too, but if it had been called something like a wandbow or a wandcaster or something, it would have looked different.
Anyway... like I said, this is from early in the modules line, and before we had our filters all in place. Today, a wand rifle would never make it into a book because it's just out of place.
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My only beef is the word 'rifle' musket would work better since it's not like the wands are rifled for greater accuracy.
Did people gripe this much about the wand crossbow from WotC's Arms and Equipment Guide?
Personally, I would probably take the rifle over the crossbow. That just sounds rediculous to me.
Doubtful. I certainly wouldn't have griped if this version was something like that. It's a neat idea. It's just the word "rifle" that causes problems and makes it feel anachronistic. Well... the illustration too, . . .
I think the illistration is what does it the worst for me. The mechanical concept isn't bad. Mind you I'm one of those people that doesn't like to mix and match technology and genres (90% of the time).
Maybe a "scepter" or something like the 3.0 "holy water dispencer" that worked the same way would work a lot better, in my opinion.
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Creative Director
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in the update re release in a few years just call it a wand caster and order better.. um different, art work that is more in line with the "filters". You know when you finally have time to update the early modules to pathfinder, right before pathfinder mark 2.
I don't expect we'll EVER update any of the modules, honestly. We've got PLENTY of stock on hand for one thing, and we'll continue to churn them out at a rate of 6 per year as long as they keep selling.
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Creative Director
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I thought Golarion was supposed to be a world that had something for everyone. You have Alkenstar, where magic is not really a choice and the gun rules the wastes, to Geb where the dead can rule and Katapesh, where you could probably buy a devil's regret. Also, Numeria.
The idea that someone in a world where all these things are possible created a weapon that would make using wands easier seems plausible to me. I would say inevitable even.
As far as calling it a wandbow, that just brings images of a wizard shooting wands at people. :) And wandcaster reminds me of the bowcaster from star wars and doesn't seem like it would fit the idea of a weapon you load wands into and then shoot spells out of.
Granted, I'm going off of the fluff info presented earlier and not what is actually presented in the module. It would be cool to know how they write up the weapon word for word.
Golarion is indeed a world where you should be able to find somewhere you'd LOVE to run a game. That's VERY DIFFERENT than a world that has everything. A world is defined as much by what's in it as it is by what's NOT in it, after all.
I purpousfully threw out the word "wandbow" to show how silly it sounds from another perspective; now you know how folks who think "wand rifle" sounds silly feel! :)
For some reason I have this amusing picture in my mind of someone in the party with a "wandbow" wasting thousands of gold pieces in treasure by grabbing up the party's wands and shooting them at enemies . . .