Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards (Optimization)


Advice

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Although your guide goes for conjuration specialist I have to say the the forsight specialization is just amazing. I think that the boost from it now goes above and beyond the lack of spells associated with divination. Everything in it is pure gold.
- +1/2 lvl to init and at lvl 20 auto roll a 20
- act on surprise round
- pre-rolled re-roll to use on anything
- 30ft aura of mass heroism that stacks with heroism

Now, if I was a diviner in a home game I would have everyone take take the feat lookout. Now the whole party auto acts on the surprise round and those who would have acted on the surprise round anyway get a freaking full-round action. Go team!

Scarab Sages

Lab_rat, He hasnt updated it outside of the core rule book.
Treantmonk:
What are the best uses of PolyMorphany Object for Teamates?
Whats are some Cool races and effects to think about?
I belive my DM would allow me to pay for NPC to cast it pre game starts if i come up with the 1200 gold for the NPC to cast it.


why you rated greater invisibility red in pathfinder and good in 3.5?


Black Lotus wrote:

Lab_rat, He hasnt updated it outside of the core rule book.

Treantmonk:
What are the best uses of PolyMorphany Object for Teamates?
Whats are some Cool races and effects to think about?
I belive my DM would allow me to pay for NPC to cast it pre game starts if i come up with the 1200 gold for the NPC to cast it.

I know that very well. With just the core rule book its a close call for conjuration vs divination. All I am saying is that I think it is an even closer race when you consider the APG.


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Anyone know if there are options within summon monster that have sneak attack or something similar?

The concept is this:
A divination wizard will more than likely beat out all initiatives and always goes in a suprise round. Combine this with Acadamae Graduate and you can summon a monster as a standard action in the suprise round or in the first round if no suprise. Because you went first everything is fat-footed to your just summoned monster. Are there monsters that can take advantage of this?

Edit: A quick look didn't net me anything. However, I could see some fun with dismantling (Bebilith) the flat-footed fighters armor before he even goes.


Lab_Rat wrote:

Anyone know if there are options within summon monster that have sneak attack or something similar?

The concept is this:
A divination wizard will more than likely beat out all initiatives and always goes in a suprise round. Combine this with Acadamae Graduate and you can summon a monster as a standard action in the suprise round or in the first round if no suprise. Because you went first everything is fat-footed to your just summoned monster. Are there monsters that can take advantage of this?

Edit: A quick look didn't net me anything. However, I could see some fun with dismantling (Bebilith) the flat-footed fighters armor before he even goes.

Babau Demons at Summon Monster 5 get 2d6 sneak.


Excellent! I shall summon 1d4+1 (SM6) Babau Demons during the surprise round and then chuckle as the chaos commences. Its a shame that even though they are not surprised they will only get a standard during this round.

Oddly this opening move is better when there is no surprise round as each would get a full attack on there opening move. Each dealing 9d6+15 damage to their flat footed foes. That's some serious fire power for a single standard attack action, especially if you roll high on that d4.


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WOW, dirty trick, drag, reposition or trip maneuver every round for 1 round/level, Chain of perdition great (evocation)spell from ultimate combat (pg 225)


Nicos wrote:
why you rated greater invisibility red in pathfinder and good in 3.5?

Nothing profound, just changed my mind.


Lab_Rat wrote:
Although your guide goes for conjuration specialist I have to say the the forsight specialization is just amazing.

That's why it's blue.

I will say that filling one memorization slot for every level with a divination spell can be somewhat difficult and redundant though.

Simply a matter of priority. Divination is a strong choice due to the specialization bonuses.


Treantmonk wrote:
Lab_Rat wrote:
Although your guide goes for conjuration specialist I have to say the the forsight specialization is just amazing.

That's why it's blue.

I will say that filling one memorization slot for every level with a divination spell can be somewhat difficult and redundant though.

Simply a matter of priority. Divination is a strong choice due to the specialization bonuses.

I completely agree. I was hoping for some better choices in Ultimate magic but I still find that most of the divination spells are situationally useful yet are redundant and not very exciting.


is there any eta yet when you will work in APG and UM stuff, TM?


Have you thought about adding a Spellslinger section to your guide?


Quote:
is there any eta yet when you will work in APG and UM stuff, TM?

Nope. It's actually quite a bit of work, and I haven't been feeling particularly motivated to do it.

I can say, that if and when and update happens, it will be an APG update, but probably not UM.

Quote:
Have you thought about adding a Spellslinger section to your guide?

Not at all.

Scarab Sages

What are the best uses of PolyMorphany Object for Teamates?
Whats are some Cool races and effects to think about?
I belive my DM would allow me to pay for NPC to cast it pre game starts if i come up with the 1200 gold for the NPC to cast it.


Black Lotus wrote:

What are the best uses of PolyMorphany Object for Teamates?

Whats are some Cool races and effects to think about?
I belive my DM would allow me to pay for NPC to cast it pre game starts if i come up with the 1200 gold for the NPC to cast it.

Have you considered a Dragon? You can use PAO to turn into a medium sized dragon (and if your Int is equal or greater than the dragon type, it's permanent if you are medium sized to begin with).

Let's say you go with a copper dragon - you get:

+4 Str, +2 Con, +4 Natural armor, Fly 60', Darkvision 60', Resist acid 20, and permanent Spider Climb.

Not bad for 1,200 gp.

I will warn you though...PAO is CHEESY!!! You will feel very dirty afterwards.


Hey Treantmonk, love your work. How bout a mini mini guide of ratings on the ninja's ki powers?

Figured asking couldn't hurt :)

Either way, thanks!
Again, love your stuff!

Scarab Sages

Treantmonk wrote:
Black Lotus wrote:

What are the best uses of PolyMorphany Object for Teamates?

Whats are some Cool races and effects to think about?
I belive my DM would allow me to pay for NPC to cast it pre game starts if i come up with the 1200 gold for the NPC to cast it.

Have you considered a Dragon? You can use PAO to turn into a medium sized dragon (and if your Int is equal or greater than the dragon type, it's permanent if you are medium sized to begin with).

Let's say you go with a copper dragon - you get:

+4 Str, +2 Con, +4 Natural armor, Fly 60', Darkvision 60', Resist acid 20, and permanent Spider Climb.

Not bad for 1,200 gp.

I will warn you though...PAO is CHEESY!!! You will feel very dirty afterwards.

Wow, that be awsome for a wizard.


Treantmonk wrote:

Hi Treantmonk. What's your take on the favored class option for elf to get 1/2 use per level of a 1st level arcane school power instead of the HP/skill point, if used on the Foresight ability: Prescience.

Being able roll so many extra D20s as time goes on seems really great. I'm not an expert though at the overall game impact as opposed to having straight HP though(which I know you prefer)


klevis69 wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:

Hi Treantmonk. What's your take on the favored class option for elf to get 1/2 use per level of a 1st level arcane school power instead of the HP/skill point, if used on the Foresight ability: Prescience.

Being able roll so many extra D20s as time goes on seems really great. I'm not an expert though at the overall game impact as opposed to having straight HP though(which I know you prefer)

I think it's worth it. Would you rather have a feat that caps out at giving you 20 HP, or a feat that caps out at giving you 10 prescience rolls? Hopefully you can compensate with a good Con and the Toughness feat. (If you get a Prescient Nat 20, pull out a Scythe or a longbow and go for it! Succeed on spells requiring touch attacks. Make that saving throw or have confidence succeeding with a skill you can't take 10 on.)

*rants* Work harder Treantmonk! We expect you to spend innumerable hours crafting and updating guides so that the rest of us optimizers out here don't have to. Get to it!

Seriously though, I really appreciate the guides. I really hope you can at least incorporate the APG content in your wizard guide... (Subschools, feats, spells... All of that!) Anything the rest of us can do to help make your life easier? :/


Treantmonk wrote:
Lab_Rat wrote:
Although your guide goes for conjuration specialist I have to say the the forsight specialization is just amazing.

That's why it's blue.

I will say that filling one memorization slot for every level with a divination spell can be somewhat difficult and redundant though.

Simply a matter of priority. Divination is a strong choice due to the specialization bonuses.

I'm inclined to agree. I love the Foresight school, but the spell selection is rough... However, we do have a few more options from APG, UM, and UC.

Furthermore, I think the Fast Study feat meshes well with the Diviner. Most divination spells aren't combat oriented, so they seem like the perfect candidate to prepare in the midst of adventuring by spending the extra ~1 minute to prepare it.


The Chort wrote:
klevis69 wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:

Hi Treantmonk. What's your take on the favored class option for elf to get 1/2 use per level of a 1st level arcane school power instead of the HP/skill point, if used on the Foresight ability: Prescience.

Being able roll so many extra D20s as time goes on seems really great. I'm not an expert though at the overall game impact as opposed to having straight HP though(which I know you prefer)

I think it's worth it. Would you rather have a feat that caps out at giving you 20 HP, or a feat that caps out at giving you 10 prescience rolls? Hopefully you can compensate with a good Con and the Toughness feat. (If you get a Prescient Nat 20, pull out a Scythe or a longbow and go for it! Succeed on spells requiring touch attacks. Make that saving throw or have confidence succeeding with a skill you can't take 10 on.)

*rants* Work harder Treantmonk! We expect you to spend innumerable hours crafting and updating guides so that the rest of us optimizers out here don't have to. Get to it!

Seriously though, I really appreciate the guides. I really hope you can at least incorporate the APG content in your wizard guide... (Subschools, feats, spells... All of that!) Anything the rest of us can do to help make your life easier? :/

I tend to agree.


Hi there!

I was wondering if Treantmonk's interpretation of
Invisibility

Quote:
Also keep in mind that most battlefield controls, and all buffs DO NOT end invisibility...

(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmon ks-lab/test)

is considered RAW/standard ?

I thought

Quote:
For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.

would mean that area spells

Grease, Glitterdust, Web, Stinking Cloud etc.
count as attacks ?

My GM shares Treantmonk's point of view, but i was just wondering.


Joneleth wrote:

Hi there!

I was wondering if Treantmonk's interpretation of
Invisibility

Quote:
Also keep in mind that most battlefield controls, and all buffs DO NOT end invisibility...

(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmon ks-lab/test)

is considered RAW/standard ?

I thought

Quote:
For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.

would mean that area spells

Grease, Glitterdust, Web, Stinking Cloud etc.
count as attacks ?

My GM shares Treantmonk's point of view, but i was just wondering.

Yes, they're area spells that affect foes. In fact they harm foes. By RAW and RAI they end Invisibility.


Thank you for answering. I am just starting to play. ;)


nategar05 wrote:
Joneleth wrote:

Hi there!

I was wondering if Treantmonk's interpretation of
Invisibility

Quote:
Also keep in mind that most battlefield controls, and all buffs DO NOT end invisibility...

(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmon ks-lab/test)

is considered RAW/standard ?

I thought

Quote:
For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.

would mean that area spells

Grease, Glitterdust, Web, Stinking Cloud etc.
count as attacks ?

My GM shares Treantmonk's point of view, but i was just wondering.

Yes, they're area spells that affect foes. In fact they harm foes. By RAW and RAI they end Invisibility.

But only if they are cast in an are a foe is occupying when you cast it, right? Spells like grease, web and stinking cloud can all effectively be cast on an area before any enemies enters it. If they enter it later on I would not rule it to break invisibility.


First of all, thanks for your keen eye and relentless guide-making. I'm old hat at optimization these days, but got that way primarily by standing on the shoulders of giants (yourself included of course). And having a second opinion never hurts, even now that I can mostly make informed decisions.

My feedback is concerning illusory script. Though the wording is somewhat vague on legality, many DMs would allow this to apply to the spells recorded in your spellbook (and at anything <10lb., should cover the whole contents with one casting). Casting it once a week or so should be a non-issue. Hinders your enemies from pilfering your vast arcane might in case you and your book get separated (and what DM doesn't try this at least once a campaign?).

More importantly, use the suggestion feature for something like, "Return this book to Treantmonk, and in 30 minutes, forget that you know anything of its contents." The reader then will, ideally, go on a cycle of opening out of curiosity and making progress toward finding you. Anyone with resources to challenge you, especially at high levels, will only need to fail the save once... and, potentially, an enemy of yours will have just delivered himself to you on a silver platter. Should be used as a supplement to backup spellbooks, of course, not a replacement.


There are a lot of folks who are shouting, "But what about this spell?". Certainly in the circumstances described that spell would be great. This is also what makes that spell "circumstantial".

I wouldn't want Treantmonk's awesome guide to rank spells based on the one or two awesome uses that they have. Surely *all* spells have a use.

When looking over the guide, I'd say that he's definitely choosing spells based on which ones a wizard will regularly use, and should therefor consider preparing. Spells that have many various uses, or which can be applied to many situations, are obviously the ones that you want ready each adventuring day.


Treantmonk, do you plan on updating the guide to reflect material in the Advanced Player's Guide and Ultimate Magic? I'm not asking about the weird stuff like Spellslinger and Wordcasting; primarily, just your take on the new spells. If nothing else, I think that Create Pit and its higher-level siblings are a perfect fit for the battlefield control wizard.


Grep wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:
Grep Yes, you are reading it wrong. A summoned creature cannot summon more creatures. That is a limitation of the summon ability. When you hear about "Chain Summoning", they are usually referring to calling spells, not summoning spells.

Oops, yeah, I don't know where I got the thought that it was talking about a summoned creature summoning another creature. Rather, it applies to any creature summoned by another creature with the Summon (Sp) ability.

What I missed was the rules for Summon Monster itself:

SRD Core wrote:
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them. Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).
Looks to me like they capped the calling spell (i.e. Planar Binding, etc) abuse a bit. Since they tend to use the Summon (Sp) ability, those summons last 1 hour, and cannot themselves use their summon ability for 1 hour. Makes it kinda hard in that time frame.

They didn't cap it at all. These limitations only apply to Summoned creatures, not called creatures. What sort of abuse they did cap was summoning lantern archons and having them cast continual flame 5 times before vanishing.

Grand Lodge

.

Sovereign Court

Dax Thura wrote:
.

please don't do this, the favourites system lets you keep track of threads you want to follow much more effectively and you are burying younger, fresher threads which people might want to contribute to.

Next time, just go to the first post and click on that little + symbol at the top.

Sovereign Court

Treantmonk or anyone,
Is there a guide to building a Pathfinder RPG wizard transmuter?
I've got a new campaign starting, and want to get ahead of the player by reading up, and also staging some good RP to integrate the transmuter.


There is no specific Transmuter guide, though you can check out The Complete Wizard Guide. It covers Transmuters, as well as pretty much everything else, ever.


wanna say thanks for this guide and say "there's a problem with the Summon God image..maybe check it out"


Treantmonk wrote:

OK - re-evaluated SM III.

The premeire summons for this level are:

Herd Animal, Aurochs: only 1 attack, but it's +7 to hit for 1d8+9 damage (before smite bonuses) and HP of 22. Not bad at all. Similar to the Bison from 3.5.

Cat, Leopard: 3 attacks with pounce. +6 to hit with 1d6+3 damage on each (before smiting). HP is a respectable 19

Cat, Cheetah: 3 attacks, but no pounce. +6 to hit with 1d6+3 damage on each (before smiting). HP is a respectable 19. The main difference between the Cheetah and Leopard is you give up pounce, but get trip instead. Not a bad tradeoff depending on your circumstance.

Obviously the other benefit to cheetah's is the "sprint" ability - if a long distance needs to be covered (Ummmm...500 feet!)

Wolverine: When it rages, it has the same bonus to hit and damage with its 3 attacks as a cheetah or Leopard, but can take a hit better, with 28 HP (in rage).

Personally, I think my favorite would be the Leopard. Using Smite Evil and a Charge, that's +8 to hit on 3 attacks doing 1d6+6 damage each...not bad for a summons at level 5...

As others have suggested, consulting the lower lists [and getting more monsters] can get superior results. Taking SMI Eagles means 9-15 attacks, which even when weaker, and less likely to hit, can mean more damage, even before the eagles or other party members get flanks. Now damage drops rapidly as enemy AC increases, but a lot of low level foes have low AC [16 or less by my casual figures], and the flock can do a serious number on them.

The eagles are going to be inferior compared to SM4 and I have not made even casual checks for other levels, but there are likely other cases when the wiz wants more lower level monsters.

Dark Archive

For SMIII, what about the Lantern Archon?

Yes, it only hits for 2 x 1d6, but they are ranged touch so they will hit. It can't be killed for the duration of the summons (perfect Fly and DR 10/Evil) and it has a couple of really good SLAs to borrow (Continual Flame without cost and Aid as a buff).


Captain K. wrote:

For SMIII, what about the Lantern Archon?

Yes, it only hits for 2 x 1d6, but they are ranged touch so they will hit. It can't be killed for the duration of the summons (perfect Fly and DR 10/Evil) and it has a couple of really good SLAs to borrow (Continual Flame without cost and Aid as a buff).

Situational. Great if your foe is a flier who won't come within range of your barbarian's sword, or he's in heavy armor that is negated by that touch attack, and the archon will normally stick around for the full fight.

But our fights are routinely short. Even at 5th level, our beast is likely to outlast the battle. And the Lantern Archon has lousy offense. In 5 rounds, his max damage is 60/average35, and he is only +3. He is going to miss a lot. Since dead foes don't damage you, damage done early is much more valuable than damage done later. Effectively a leopard does in one round more damage than the Archon does in 5. [& I deem the SM1 eagle to be the better choice.]
The inventive wizard can find a lot of uses for the Archon, but for the generic battle, it's not a top choice.


Why can I not list this threeeeaaaad?


Tacticslion wrote:
Why can I not list this threeeeaaaad?

Eric Cartmenez?


Tacticslion wrote:
Why can I not list this threeeeaaaad?

No idea. I bookmarked it just now with no problem.


Still can't List it. I click "list thread" and nothing happens. :/


BigDTBone wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Why can I not list this threeeeaaaad?
Eric Cartmenez?

I... I didn't know who he was before Googling it.

:`(


Anyone know why he took these down?


What do you mean? Links just fine for me.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Works just fine for me, as well.


I keep getting document look up failed it's possible it may have been deleted when I try to go to the guide.


Definitely an issue on your end, 'cuz right now, there are forty people viewing the guide. Try logging out and back into your Google account, or restarting your browser, or clearing your cache or something.


Thanks.

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