Let's say I'm flanking an opponent, and I have the rogue sneak attack ability. I use a full action to attack multiple times. (Using flurry of blows, or two-weapon fighting, or whatever).
Does sneak attack damage apply to each successful attack? or just one?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's say I'm flanking an opponent, and I have the rogue sneak attack ability. I use a full action to attack multiple times. (Using flurry of blows, or two-weapon fighting, or whatever). Does sneak attack damage apply to each successful attack? or just one?
You continue to flank on each attack, so sneak attack applies to each hit.
Every attack you make that qualifies as a sneak attack gets the sneak attack damage.
Only in cases where precision damage is specifically limited (such as in the multishot feat) does sneak attack only apply once.
Sneak attack damage is pretty flexible really. You can even sneak attack with a wand of cause light wounds for example.
Makes sense. Thanks!
Sneak attack damage is pretty flexible really. You can even sneak attack with a wand of cause light wounds for example.
I know it's silly, but the FAQs have said that if you sneak attack with a spell, the extra damage is considered whatever damage the spell lists.
Soooo, if you sneak attack with a CON damaging spell... Keep the thought going.
Sneak attack damage is pretty flexible really. You can even sneak attack with a wand of cause light wounds for example.I know it's silly, but the FAQs have said that if you sneak attack with a spell, the extra damage is considered whatever damage the spell lists.
Soooo, if you sneak attack with a CON damaging spell... Keep the thought going.
Dang -.-'
Are you absolutely sure about this? Cause that would be utterly EVIL!
Sneak attack damage is pretty flexible really. You can even sneak attack with a wand of cause light wounds for example.I know it's silly, but the FAQs have said that if you sneak attack with a spell, the extra damage is considered whatever damage the spell lists.
Soooo, if you sneak attack with a CON damaging spell... Keep the thought going.
Dang -.-'
Are you absolutely sure about this? Cause that would be utterly EVIL!
There is a complete essay regarding Sneak Attack with Ability Damage attacks here.
This is a small extract:
"A successful sneak attack with a weaponlike spell inflicts extra damage according to the attacker's sneak attack ability, and the extra damage dealt is the same type as the spell deals. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with a Melf's acid arrow spell inflicts 2d4 points of acid damage, plus an extra 5d6 points of acid damage from the sneak attack (note that continuing damage from this spell is not part of the sneak attack). Spells that inflict energy drains or ability damage deal extra negative energy damage in a sneak attack, not extra negative levels or ability damage. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with an enervation spell deals 1d4 negative levels plus an extra 5d6 points of negative energy damage."
So, basically, you cannot deal extra CON damage with a Sneak Attack, but you would deal extra Negative Energy damage with your Sneak Attack.
So, basically, you cannot deal extra CON damage with a Sneak Attack, but you would deal extra Negative Energy damage with your Sneak Attack.
Thankfully.
I think I know the answer, but can you get sneak attack with magic missle?
I think I know the answer, but can you get sneak attack with magic missle?
No, no attack roll, which means you aren't really "targetting" with it. Same with fireball.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Soooo, if you sneak attack with a CON damaging spell... Keep the thought going.
No, if the damage isn't HP damage (like Con damage or any other type of damage), then the damage done is HP damage of Negative Energy or Positive Energy type (whichever makes sense.)
It works this way also for spells that don't deal damage (but require attack rolls.)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Soooo, if you sneak attack with a CON damaging spell... Keep the thought going.No, if the damage isn't HP damage (like Con damage or any other type of damage), then the damage done is HP damage of Negative Energy or Positive Energy type (whichever makes sense.)
It works this way also for spells that don't deal damage (but require attack rolls.)
I dunno, that's kind of weird for spells, particularly "Touch of Fatige" or "Ray of Exhaustion."
"Oh, I feel so tired... AAHHH! My spleen!"
Soooo, if you sneak attack with a CON damaging spell... Keep the thought going.No, if the damage isn't HP damage (like Con damage or any other type of damage), then the damage done is HP damage of Negative Energy or Positive Energy type (whichever makes sense.)
It works this way also for spells that don't deal damage (but require attack rolls.)
Where do I find the rule for sneak attack dealing negative energy or positive energy if the damage isn't HP damage.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Where do I find the rule for sneak attack dealing negative energy or positive energy if the damage isn't HP damage.
In 3.5, Rules Compendium
In 3.p, it is possibly changed but since the 3.5 rules were similar yet the allowance was provided it ultimately may be up to your DM if he carries over the 3.5 line of thinking.
I, for one, do as a DM allow this based on the RC ruling in 3.p games.
Yeah, the rogue got shafted in a few places.
The splash weapon thing was a contradiction. You get to attack a the touch AC because you don't have to be precise, you just have to hit them. It's essentially a single target area effect.
Meh, I'm not totally in love with the splash weapon change either but it wasn't part of some effort to nerf the rogue. If they were trying to nerf the rogue they wouldn't have made them able to sneak attack tons more creatures, given them rogue talents, and done the skill consolidation, etc...
It was done because people felt it was cheesy and they were trying to bring the fighter and Paladin up and the rogue down.Throwing acid in monsters' eyes when the class's entire combat schtick is cheap shots? How is that cheesy?
Augh, it makes me so angry but it's so easy to patch with a houserule so I shouldn't get worked up.
Yeah, the rogue got shafted in a few places.
(Personally I'm not missing the blink thing, since I never used blink because I hate miss-chances, even if my opponent's got a bigger one than me, and by the time I could afford an improved blink item there were other things that needed buying)
Ring of blinking + ghosttouch weapon = win. Even on opponents with blindfight you'll have a miss chance unless they have a ghosttouch weapon, and a higher miss chance against non-magical and it works all the time unlike cloak of major displacement. Also ghosttouch is really useful against um ghosts :) that was redundant. Anyways, I like that combo, which should now be obvious. I'm going to stop typing now.
I dunno, that's kind of weird for spells, particularly "Touch of Fatige" or "Ray of Exhaustion."
"Oh, I feel so tired... AAHHH! My spleen!"
Actually, I believe spells must do *damage* in order to use sneak attack. It can be ability damage or energy drain (damage), but it can't just be a status effect type thing. So neither of those spells would sneak attack.
Absolutely no backup (at this moment) to that statement. Hopefully someone else can confirm or deny.
As for splash-sneak attack, glad it's gone. I did just think of an interesting compromise on the whole touch-sneak thing though - touch attack to hit, but regular AC to do sneak attack damage.
Then why can you shoot a Searing Ray in someone's vitals with a touch attack?
Because you can still target someone's vitals with a ray. Getting them with precision with a splash, fluid dynamics being what they are, is harder.
Actually, I believe spells must do *damage* in order to use sneak attack. It can be ability damage or energy drain (damage), but it can't just be a status effect type thing. So neither of those spells would sneak attack.Absolutely no backup (at this moment) to that statement. Hopefully someone else can confirm or deny.
It doesn't mention the idea directly, but under the Rogue in the PF core rules, sneak attack is defined as extra damage. For an attack that does no damage, I should think there'd be no potential for extra damage on top of it.
|
Complete Arcane states that spells that have an attack roll but do not deal damage cannot score a critical hit. We can infer from that that they do not get sneak attack either. The section on sneak attack also mentions that sneak attack is extra damage of the type the spell deals, no mention of non-damaging spells getting SA.
The splash weapon thing was a contradiction. You get to attack a the touch AC because you don't have to be precise, you just have to hit them. It's essentially a single target area effect.Then why can you shoot a Searing Ray in someone's vitals with a touch attack?
I would guess because searing ray is a ray and therefor a fairly tightly targeted effect where was acid and alchemists fire are "splash" weapons.
Meh, I'm not totally in love with the splash weapon change either but it wasn't part of some effort to nerf the rogue. If they were trying to nerf the rogue they wouldn't have made them able to sneak attack tons more creatures, given them rogue talents, and done the skill consolidation, etc...
They broadened the rogue's abilities, while removing some of the most effective ways to make use of their single combat schtick. That is both a "buff" and a "nerf" and they don't offset each other.
Meh, it just goes back to "Look at all the d6s, it must be uber!" that plague rogues, damage spells, and such.
Splash weapon sneak attack is one of those tricks people learn through word of mouth or via forums. It certainly wasn't an obvious extension of the class and I would guess the average player never used it. Essentially they removed an effective tactic for a relatively small number of players and made the class more effective for all players. Overall it's a big win for the average player and likely neutral for the expert gamers.
(other than me) The group I play with are not the sorts who hang around forums looking for the less obvious character tactics so it's not something they will ever miss.
Complete Arcane states that spells that have an attack roll but do not deal damage cannot score a critical hit. We can infer from that that they do not get sneak attack either. The section on sneak attack also mentions that sneak attack is extra damage of the type the spell deals, no mention of non-damaging spells getting SA.
The combat chapter talks about critical hits and spells:
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Pretty much confirms what you said about criticals. Unfortunately, misses a lot of other implications like sneak attack or spells that do ability damage. I really wish they'd touched on this at least briefly.
Let's say I'm flanking an opponent, and I have the rogue sneak attack ability. I use a full action to attack multiple times. (Using flurry of blows, or two-weapon fighting, or whatever). Does sneak attack damage apply to each successful attack? or just one?You continue to flank on each attack, so sneak attack applies to each hit.
So with a speed weapon and off hand weapon...if you have the creature flanked and hit with all 3 dice...you get sneak attack damage on all 3 hits?
|
Rrrgh. I just don't get it. Throwing acid in someone's face is flavorful and reasonable, and it wasn't overpowered.
I do not see why a Rogue should be able to do more damage than say a Fighter by throwing acid in someone's face.
Also PFRPG prevents adding sneak attack to the splash damage done automatically to all and any creatures within 5 feet of the target (that is a 10 feet square area if you target an intersection, which is near automatic since it is a AC5 for a ranged touch attack).
Rrrgh. I just don't get it. Throwing acid in someone's face is flavorful and reasonable, and it wasn't overpowered.I do not see why a Rogue should be able to do more damage than say a Fighter by throwing acid in someone's face.
Also PFRPG prevents adding sneak attack to the splash damage done automatically to all and any creatures within 5 feet of the target (that is a 10 feet square area if you target an intersection, which is near automatic since it is a AC5 for a ranged touch attack).
In 3.5 Splash damage didn't add sneak attack either, it was only the direct hit that did with splash weapons.
So it isn't PFRG but D20 that prevents splash damage adding sneak attack.
@Janzir
I can't mention on the called shot thing because i haven't yet read that variant rule in the UC yet.
But you are wrong, as long as a rogue (or anyone) flanks an opponent he can use his sneak attack on him. You don't lose your flanking bonus when you attack an enemy with your first attack and as long as you flank an opponent then you can use your sneak attack on him.
Anything else is a house rule.
@Janzir
I can't mention on the called shot thing because i haven't yet read that variant rule in the UC yet.
But you are wrong, as long as a rogue (or anyone) flanks an opponent he can use his sneak attack on him. You don't lose your flanking bonus when you attack an enemy with your first attack and as long as you flank an opponent then you can use your sneak attack on him.
Anything else is a house rule.
That's a hell of a necro post... twice :)
But yes, flanking does not say "after the first hit you no longer flank", or "only the first hit is sneak attack".
It says "if you're flanking you do sneak attack". And you keep flanking, so you do keep doing sneak attack.
Flanking does not mean "enemy doesn't know you're there" - that would be flat-footed. Maybe that's what you meant, because there are situations where enemies are only flat footed (or lose their Dex bonus) to your first attack, then you won't get sneak attack on the rest of your full-attack.
But flanking means he has to try and defend himself against two sides, against the rogue on the left and the barbarian with the big axe on the right, and that means his defense is sub-optimal, leaving holes that a rogue will exploit, and stick that dagger were it hurts.
If that's how you play your game Janzir, that's fine, but it's not how the rules say it works.
For situations like invisibility and such sure only the first attack gets sneak attack.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
NO NO AND NO! ranged spell/touch attacks do NOT get sneak attack damage UNLESS you are a 10th level Arcane Trickster
Surprise Spells: At 10th level, an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the same type as the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage.
The above is a direct quote from the Arcane Trickster prestige class, and they would not list it as a special, prestige class, level 10 ability if everyone could get it.
I dunno, that's kind of weird for spells, particularly "Touch of Fatige" or "Ray of Exhaustion."
"Oh, I feel so tired... AAHHH! My spleen!"
Actually, I believe spells must do *damage* in order to use sneak attack. It can be ability damage or energy drain (damage), but it can't just be a status effect type thing. So neither of those spells would sneak attack.
Absolutely no backup (at this moment) to that statement. Hopefully someone else can confirm or deny.
As for splash-sneak attack, glad it's gone. I did just think of an interesting compromise on the whole touch-sneak thing though - touch attack to hit, but regular AC to do sneak attack damage.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That caping ability is meant to be able to sneak attack on a non-attack spell that deals damage like magic missile or an AoE spell like fireball. You can sneak attack with a ray spell (which is a ranged touch attack.), provided that your target is denied its Dex bonus to AC.
+1