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It's been stated that Alkenstar and Numeria (and possibly others) will never get expanded upon; that they were only put in there so Golarion could encompass every type of D&D game.
But why bother? If I want to play a game where Alkenstar would feature prominently, I'd have to pretty much make up the whole of the country, and if I'm doing that why not just make up a whole setting around it?
Not trying to just make a dig at you guys, but I really wanna see more stuff in places like Alkenstar and not just have them pushed aside because a couple of you don't like guns.
But why bother? If I want to play a game where Alkenstar would feature prominently, I'd have to pretty much make up the whole of the country, and if I'm doing that why not just make up a whole setting around it?
At the risk of sounding snarky, what on earth is wrong with having the basic framework of a country, with plenty of juicy ideas inherent in the description, and leaving it alone for DMs to do with as they please?
I understand not having a lot of free time (father of two younguns), but one of the greatest pleasures in DMing is the hanging of whatever sticky, gooey meats I want on what was previously a bare skeleton. I don't ever want every nook and cranny to be detailed, because that gives me the freedom to do whatever I want, to sit down and sketch out whatever towns, cities, ruins, political groups I want to be present (note that even if Paizo were to create sourcebooks for those places, I would still feel free to pick and choose what aspects were in my Golarion).
Even if I end up stealing two or three ideas from other sources (it's what DMs do best :) :) to lighten the workload, it's still one of the most enjoyable aspects of the DMs job; creation!
I really can't see how this is at all a bad thing...
Cheers,
Colin
Creative Director
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It's been stated that Alkenstar and Numeria (and possibly others) will never get expanded upon; that they were only put in there so Golarion could encompass every type of D&D game.
But why bother? If I want to play a game where Alkenstar would feature prominently, I'd have to pretty much make up the whole of the country, and if I'm doing that why not just make up a whole setting around it?
Not trying to just make a dig at you guys, but I really wanna see more stuff in places like Alkenstar and not just have them pushed aside because a couple of you don't like guns.
Actually... I really really REALLY want to some day set an adventure path in Numeria. So wherever you heard that we weren't ever planning on expanding things there had faulty information. "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" is one of my favorite adventures from the old days, and the concept of "Conan fighting robots" is too awesome to leave alone forever.
And in any case, there's 45 or so regions in the setting. Even if we took pains to do one adventure path per region, that'll take us over two decades to visit EVERY location. Eventually... we might just do one set in Alkenstar. It's not NEARLY as high on the list as most other locations, though. And as I said above, chances of seeing an AP set in Numeria within the next few years are actually quite high.
We can't explore every part of the Inner Sea region at once. Nor do we want to just blast through places and not take time (as in about 6 months) to really look at a place in an AP.
QUICK ASIDE: My problem with Alkenstar is that the guns there are "too realistic" in that they too closely model the rise of firearms in the real world history, and that carries with it an unacceptable to me amount of baggage to deal with on a small scale. Numeria, on the other hand, is more science fiction than real world; laser guns and robots are closer to fireballs and golems, and as such they don't stretch my suspension of disbelief as much as trying to do a "rise of firearms" type thing.
Following the FR life-cycle, once they finish detailing all parts of Golarion they "like", they'll have no other choice but swallow their pride and start looking into those they "don't like" (their business is still selling books). Then we'll see books for Numeria and Alkenstar.
...and of course, little after that Karzoug will come back to life and kill Nethys in an attempt to steal his portfolio, cause a spell-plague in Golarion, and then Paizo will announce that, after last renegotiation of the GSL, PF will finally move on to 5E. =P
Honestly, the "detail it in an AP" approach is one of my least favorite things about Golarion. There's so much data put out in the APs that, if you're a completist, you wind up with a ton of adventure paths you don't necessarily want just so you can get details on, say, Calistria or Iomedae or tieflings or whatever. It's not entirely unlike the old WoD's metaplot being spread amongst every published title they put out, making it impossible to know what was actually going on unless you bought everything.
I'd much prefer a Guide to Alkenstar or Numeria or Seoni or whatever as an individual book than having it be buried somewhere in an AP. I don't really run published adventures myself, so it's not my favorite approach at all.
Though, for the record, I also run my games in my own setting, so I don't buy tons of setting specific books, either. I'd just be mining the occasional book anyway...
I'd much prefer a Guide to Alkenstar or Numeria or Seoni
Hmm... "The Complete Guide to Seoni". I don't care if it's only released as an April's Fools, release this and you guys got a best seller in your hands! =D
In my Golarion game, Numeria's "robots" are in fact Warforged and fallen ship is spelljamming vessel.
My only thought there is that, as currently understood, Golarion isn't part of the Phlogiston (sp?, it's been a long time) flow. And in the Dark Tapestry, it's all Far Realm/Cthulhu up in this biznatch.
I LOVE Spelljammer, btw, and have built a part of my homebrew around it.
Just my tuppence.
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I would personally like to see the setting relevent information from adventure paths compiled and released as supplements on say a quarterly basis, even if only in a PDF form. Those who already have the AP books wouldnt have to buy them, but those of us who dont run the APs would still have access to the worl information in them. When it comes to the information regarding setting that is in the adventure paths the "Guide to..." really dont cut it in my opinion.
-Weylin
How would you re-edit the setting information out of the text of the adventure though? looking at the closest adventure (blood of dargonscar - my APs are on the other side of the room right now) of the 32 page adventure, 23-25 pages are setting relevant information about the town and people in the area, 5 pages are stats, and 2-4 pages are crunchy sidebars and pictures that some might find too adventure relevant, and not as setting relevant. The APs (especially the early adventures) have a smaller percent of stats than this, and a higher percentage of setting relevant information - i would guess 37-40 pages of setting relevant information out of the 48 page adventure, plus the support articles, which vary in relevance(the fiction in each AP is always 100% setting relevant barring some comments in a sidebar from the author or editor). Edit: there are exceptions to this rule, as an adventure with a large dungeon will need a larger amount of maps and stats than an outdoor area, and enemies with class levels or templates need more room to stat up completely.
The way these facts are integrated into the adventures, it is not an easy task to pull them out and formulate them (Believe me, we have a team working on that on the Wiki and we can barley keep up), so there would be no easy way to write up the PDFs you suggest while keeping the same quality that Paizo is famous for.
And in any case, there's 45 or so regions in the setting. Even if we took pains to do one adventure path per region, that'll take us over two decades to visit EVERY location. Eventually... we might just do one set in Alkenstar. It's not NEARLY as high on the list as most other locations, though. And as I said above, chances of seeing an AP set in Numeria within the next few years are actually quite high.
Why use AP's as the only method of expanding regional knowledge? I really like the Companion products to this point. Even an investment like that would provide more fluff and crunch that people begging for world building happiness would devour.
My tuppence.
As someone who can really only commit to the AP right now, I love having these elements in the AP--it let's you get a little bit of everything in one spot.
Well, every company needs some form of "incentive" for their readers. It's mostly that or oblivion. Given that, I prefer the slow and steady approach of an adventure path to the "massive books with lots of crunch" style of certain other companies. Even if I don't use the adventure path itself, I can use the setting details, and an adventure path is great for cannibalizing for other campaigns.
That said, I too want a Complete Guide to Seoni.
I don't think I can recall a published setting that didn't have some areas that were less detailed and never really fully fleshed out. Even if your characters never go there, they make for great window dressing when you want to have exotic travelers in places like Absalom or Katapesh.
If I remember correctly, in Ed Greenwoods home FR game, his players really never went very far outside the Heartlands, but they got hints and references to more exotic (and at the time, very sparsely detailed) lands from mercenaries and merchants that had either traveled to those far off lands or come from them personally.
Even if you don't run a game in either of those places, and even if you don't want to spend too much time fleshing those places out, having some strange warrior with arcane technology at his command or an Alkenstar merchant with a gunslinging bodyguard can make for a memorable encounter.
Heck, it kind of reminds me of comments about the planes, when some designers were unhappy with the lack of adventuring possibilities on said planes. The problem is, some of those planes didn't exist so much to adventure there, but to be the origin of monsters or artifacts or what have you, to add an ominous flavor to them.
QUICK ASIDE: My problem with Alkenstar is that the guns there are "too realistic" in that they too closely model the rise of firearms in the real world history, and that carries with it an unacceptable to me amount of baggage to deal with on a small scale. Numeria, on the other hand, is more science fiction than real world; laser guns and robots are closer to fireballs and golems, and as such they don't stretch my suspension of disbelief as much as trying to do a "rise of firearms" type thing.
...Historical realism doesn't stretch it as much as science fantasy?
Your suspension of disbelief is a very weird thing, Mr. Jacobs. :)
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Honestly, the "detail it in an AP" approach is one of my least favorite things about Golarion. There's so much data put out in the APs that, if you're a completist, you wind up with a ton of adventure paths you don't necessarily want just so you can get details on, say, Calistria or Iomedae or tieflings or whatever.
The thing is, if they're doing sourcebooks instead of adventure paths, then, if you're a completist, you wind up with a ton of sourcebooks you don't necessarily want, just you can get some basic info on, say, Numeria or Alkenstar.
I'm into Pathfinder for the adventure paths and while I'd like to be a completist I can't afford to do so. So I'd buy an Alkenstar adventure path in a heartbeat but would most probably ignore an Alkenstar sourcebook.
So if they can do both, I'm fine with that, but if I had to chose then I'm all for the AP concept as presented so far. And to be honest, the second half of AP issues is as important for me as the adventure itself. It's exactly this combination of adventure and world building which fills my needs better than most other products I've seen so far.
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My problem with putting things out in APs is two-fold. First, you usually have 6(?) books per path. That is 6 books to dig through to find the relevant information. Second, APs are not meant for player perusal. If you player wants to know all the relevant information on the setting you either have to summarize it for them, or just say no. You might be planning on running that AP later, or just realize you could run it later. I would prefer Chronicles/Companions or just a source book that comes out and details the stuff in the APs. If you have the APs, don't buy the book, if you don't have the APs, buy it.
Fireball:
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My problem with putting things out in APs is two-fold. First, you usually have 6(?) books per path. That is 6 books to dig through to find the relevant information. Second, APs are not meant for player perusal. If you player wants to know all the relevant information on the setting you either have to summarize it for them, or just say no. You might be planning on running that AP later, or just realize you could run it later. I would prefer Chronicles/Companions or just a source book that comes out and details the stuff in the APs. If you have the APs, don't buy the book, if you don't have the APs, buy it.
Fireball: 5d6 +2
Not much use for subscribers who don't have much choice what we get.
Secondly, if it's in the AP, then it's not FOR the players unless the DM says it is.
My problem with putting things out in APs is two-fold. First, you usually have 6(?) books per path. That is 6 books to dig through to find the relevant information. Second, APs are not meant for player perusal. If you player wants to know all the relevant information on the setting you either have to summarize it for them, or just say no. You might be planning on running that AP later, or just realize you could run it later. I would prefer Chronicles/Companions or just a source book that comes out and details the stuff in the APs. If you have the APs, don't buy the book, if you don't have the APs, buy it.
Fireball: 5d6 +2
Not much use for subscribers who don't have much choice what we get.
Secondly, if it's in the AP, then it's not FOR the players unless the DM says it is.
You mean like articles about Iomedae or Caiden Caylean?
That said, I too want a Complete Guide to Seoni.
Bah! We need to hold out for the "Girls of Golarion" calendar!
Paizo's money maker is the APs. The rulebook(s) do not need to be "re-sold" to us every couple of years to bring in money to keep the company going. Nor do they need to bring out "splat" books every month to stay afloat.
I much prefer Paizo's approach to the continual splat book / new rule book approach.
I am not sure how many would be purchasing APs and/or sourcebooks if they were not partially combined. They have already stated that they will not re-print APs in a single volume, as it would lead to a reduction in sales due to people deciding not to by the APs as they come out and simply get the hardcover later.
One of the reasons that I subscribe to the APs is to get the PDFs, which allows me to give players access to the non-adventure aspects of the AP books.
I am glad there are blank areas. Allows me to put my stamp on an area without treading on the toes of Others.
And I am also glad the focus is on adventures than 101 rule books which do little other than cause divides amongst the gamers. Shame another company didn't take that route...
In my Golarion game, Numeria's "robots" are in fact Warforged and fallen ship is spelljamming vessel.
Thumbs up and +1. (Both are in my setting that I convert Paizo's APs to.)
I'd definitely look into seeing if this were reasonably easy to do in any Numeria adventure - otherwise I'd be canceling my AP subscription for that particular AP, since robots and lasers in 'medieval-type' fantasy sucks. :)
Honestly, the "detail it in an AP" approach is one of my least favorite things about Golarion. There's so much data put out in the APs that, if you're a completist, you wind up with a ton of adventure paths you don't necessarily want just so you can get details on, say, Calistria or Iomedae or tieflings or whatever. It's not entirely unlike the old WoD's metaplot being spread amongst every published title they put out, making it impossible to know what was actually going on unless you bought everything.
I'd much prefer a Guide to Alkenstar or Numeria or Seoni or whatever as an individual book than having it be buried somewhere in an AP. I don't really run published adventures myself, so it's not my favorite approach at all.
Though, for the record, I also run my games in my own setting, so I don't buy tons of setting specific books, either. I'd just be mining the occasional book anyway...
This is an issue my group and I have discussed several times. THe amount of information given in the Adventure Paths is a little annoying to us. We dont run modules/paths. Likely never will. But to get access to that information, as you said you have to buy books you wont use 75% of. This was a gripe I had about the tiefling information in the COuncil of Theives path. They are a favorite race of mine and if I had not bought (for that information alone actually) the AP #25 book I wouldnt have that information.
I would personally like to see the setting relevent information from adventure paths compiled and released as supplements on say a quarterly basis, even if only in a PDF form. Those who already have the AP books wouldnt have to buy them, but those of us who dont run the APs would still have access to the worl information in them. When it comes to the information regarding setting that is in the adventure paths the "Guide to..." really dont cut it in my opinion.
-Weylin
Actually, the AP approach to setting detail is one of my favorite things about Golarion. Regional sourcebooks often focus on the same details, or worse, ignore the details a GM might need most. Paizo's approach provides the Campaign setting for your high-level view, your Chronicles and Companions to provide a deeper dive, and the APs flesh out things that would probably get whacked from a regional sourcebook or emphasize what makes the area interesting/unique. Even if I never run the AP, I can use the maps, locations, and some NPCs as needed.
For me the model is perfect. Ultimately, I get a much higher word count on an area as well. The downside? Yeah, it hurts the wallet.
Honestly, the "detail it in an AP" approach is one of my least favorite things about Golarion. There's so much data put out in the APs that, if you're a completist, you wind up with a ton of adventure paths you don't necessarily want just so you can get details on, say, Calistria or Iomedae or tieflings or whatever. It's not entirely unlike the old WoD's metaplot being spread amongst every published title they put out, making it impossible to know what was actually going on unless you bought everything.
I'd much prefer a Guide to Alkenstar or Numeria or Seoni or whatever as an individual book than having it be buried somewhere in an AP. I don't really run published adventures myself, so it's not my favorite approach at all.
Though, for the record, I also run my games in my own setting, so I don't buy tons of setting specific books, either. I'd just be mining the occasional book anyway...
I like the Adventure Paths mostly for the stuff other than the actual adventure. I'm kind of new to the AP thing though but to me it seems more like a magazine with 1/3 adventure, 1/3 fluff on the region, and 1/3 crunch with new monsters, additional rules and such. I like the format. Yeah you get an adventure you might not use but for me an unused adventure is something I can borrow from for my own creations. Like take NPC from or map from there. The Fluff is useful if I want to use particular city or location. The additional monster just add to my collection to choose from. It's all good and for $16 month I think it's worth it even if I don't run the adventure but I will be for Council of Thieves as it's just too cool!
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Creative Director
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Honestly, the "detail it in an AP" approach is one of my least favorite things about Golarion. There's so much data put out in the APs that, if you're a completist, you wind up with a ton of adventure paths you don't necessarily want just so you can get details on, say, Calistria or Iomedae or tieflings or whatever. It's not entirely unlike the old WoD's metaplot being spread amongst every published title they put out, making it impossible to know what was actually going on unless you bought everything.
I'd much prefer a Guide to Alkenstar or Numeria or Seoni or whatever as an individual book than having it be buried somewhere in an AP. I don't really run published adventures myself, so it's not my favorite approach at all.
Though, for the record, I also run my games in my own setting, so I don't buy tons of setting specific books, either. I'd just be mining the occasional book anyway...
Adventure Paths is what we do best; they're the backbone of our company. And frankly, admitting you don't buy tons of setting specific books sort of undermines your argument for us to shift focus from our extremely successful Adventure Path line to supplement books. :-P
That said, compiling portions of adventure paths or their support articles into reprint books (sort of like things like "The Best of Dragon Magazine" or the like) is certainly a possibility a few years down the road.
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Creative Director
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Why use AP's as the only method of expanding regional knowledge? I really like the Companion products to this point. Even an investment like that would provide more fluff and crunch that people begging for world building happiness would devour.
Because the Adventure Paths are MUCH more successful and reach a MUCH larger audience than any of our other softcover book lines. The Adventure Paths are the most cost effective books we produce, and they're the most popular. We don't want to dilute or tinker with that magic formula, since that would run a very real risk of putting Paizo out of business.
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Creative Director
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QUICK ASIDE: My problem with Alkenstar is that the guns there are "too realistic" in that they too closely model the rise of firearms in the real world history, and that carries with it an unacceptable to me amount of baggage to deal with on a small scale. Numeria, on the other hand, is more science fiction than real world; laser guns and robots are closer to fireballs and golems, and as such they don't stretch my suspension of disbelief as much as trying to do a "rise of firearms" type thing....Historical realism doesn't stretch it as much as science fantasy?
Your suspension of disbelief is a very weird thing, Mr. Jacobs. :)
If Golarion were a historically accurate real-world setting, historical realism would have a place in the game. Golarion is NOT a historically accurate setting. It's a highly fantastic setting with monsters and magic. Introducing new fantastical elements, be they magic or lasers or dragons or robots, is less disruptive than trying to force real-world realism or elements into the mix.
Also, if we put in a bunch of guns, we immediately have a horde of gun-nut gamers telling us how we did things wrong.
If we put in a bunch of lasers, we don't have that problem at all.
That, honestly, is a big part of why I'm hesitant to do much more with real-world guns. The fans of this content are kind of their own worst enemy there, alas. We don't have the knowledge or the resources in house to make sure we do something like that right enough for the legions of fans who'll call us on it. We COULD, I suppose, but the amount of time and effort we'd have to put in would change Golarion's face and theme drastically, and that's not something anyone here at Paizo wants.
We LIKE Golarion without a proliferation of real-world muskets and flintlocks and the like.
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hm...
1st off: can't wait to see the Numerian LazerBeamz&Robotz AP. Pure awesome there.
2nd: I like having guns (in general) in fantasy type settings, but hate to have mechanically different rules for ranged weapon selections. Specifically, a 19-20/x3 ranged weapon with good damage? Never again will I allow that in my games.
The solution: Guns = Crossbows. Simple, elegant, and effective. I get the flavor I want, the players get to use their pistols, rifles, shotguns, and the like, and no new rules need to come up. Side bonus: I get to use some of those WARMACHINE minis sitting around for PC minis.
-t
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Your arguments have merit, James. But you can always create your own science. For instance, in FR firearms were dependent on smoke powder - not on ordinary black powder. Perhaps the gods of Golarion have made certain that they will not be supplanted by ordinary science, so the laws of physics work slightly different. Perhaps gun powders burn to hot for common metals, so making of guns requires special ones, like Darksteel from Forgotten Realms (the best non-magical metal in the game), etc.
QUICK ASIDE: My problem with Alkenstar is that the guns there are "too realistic" in that they too closely model the rise of firearms in the real world history, and that carries with it an unacceptable to me amount of baggage to deal with on a small scale. Numeria, on the other hand, is more science fiction than real world; laser guns and robots are closer to fireballs and golems, and as such they don't stretch my suspension of disbelief as much as trying to do a "rise of firearms" type thing.
I addressed that in my COTCT campaign. I like the idea of firearms in the setting, but I am not a fan of actual revolvers. So I changed up the firearms a bit.
Three types of flintlock pistols are available. The target pistol (2d4 damage; 50 ft. range), the cavalry pistol (2d6 damage, 35 ft. range), and the pistol axe (2d6 damage, 25 ft. range, double as a handaxe). Reloading a pistol take two full round actions.
The higher damage makes them useful, but the reload rate makes them less practical than even the heavy crossbow. The Rapid Reload feat cannot be used for firearms.
I have one player that uses a pistol axe. He often takes a shot as he closes into melee and only bothers to reload after a combat.
Edit: I also made no attempt to match real world flintlock except in the most simple of terms. A trained individual can fire about 3 shots a minute with a flintlock rifle/musket. That is close to three full-round actions to reload. Pistols were slightly easier, so I went with two full-round actions. That was as far as I went.
Now having said all of this, I may alow a pepperbox style weapon. multiple barrels that are preloaded and hand turned to fire multiple shots, but could not be quickly reloaded in combat.
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Creative Director
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Your arguments have merit, James. But you can always create your own science. For instance, in FR firearms were dependent on smoke powder - not on ordinary black powder. Perhaps the gods of Golarion have made certain that they will not be supplanted by ordinary science, so the laws of physics work slightly different. Perhaps gun powders burn to hot for common metals, so making of guns requires special ones, like Darksteel from Forgotten Realms (the best non-magical metal in the game), etc.
If we were to "create our own science" then what's the point trying to make that "new science" be something familiar? And it's not just the fact that gun rule purists are hard to satisfy... it's the simple fact that guns and firearms simply don't fit the flavor of Golarion by and large as it's developed over the past 2 years.
Golarion's in a different place, evolution and creation-wise, than it was 2 years ago, when we weren't sure if introducing guns would be a good or a bad thing. Things have changed. Golarion cannot be EVERYTHING, but we can make it be MOST THINGS. Certain elements are simply too expansive and combustible to pepper into a game setting without changing the entire setting—guns are one of those things. I suspect psionics are as well.
And now.. I completely see where James was going with the whole not wanting to generate debates, because in my game I would favor a more wild west approach.
Revolvers that hold 6 shots, standard Action reload, with the option to buy extra cyllanders to swap in and out as a free action. (alternatively take rapid reload)
Pump action shotguns, and bolt action rifles.
Basically I want firearms to be a reasonable alternative to bows, not something you just hand to a hord of mooks because you don't care about their following rounds anyway.
Exactly. I have done the more wild west approach in games, but I typically find I need to upgrade the bows and crossbows in some way or the players won't use them.
It all depends on the feel I am going for.
Certain elements are simply too expansive and combustible... guns are one of those things. I suspect psionics are as well.
Surely you can turn two wrongs into a right by adding Psionic Guns(tm) to Golarion. :P
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Your arguments have merit, James. But you can always create your own science. For instance, in FR firearms were dependent on smoke powder - not on ordinary black powder. Perhaps the gods of Golarion have made certain that they will not be supplanted by ordinary science, so the laws of physics work slightly different. Perhaps gun powders burn to hot for common metals, so making of guns requires special ones, like Darksteel from Forgotten Realms (the best non-magical metal in the game), etc.If we were to "create our own science" then what's the point trying to make that "new science" be something familiar? And it's not just the fact that gun rule purists are hard to satisfy... it's the simple fact that guns and firearms simply don't fit the flavor of Golarion by and large as it's developed over the past 2 years.
Golarion's in a different place, evolution and creation-wise, than it was 2 years ago, when we weren't sure if introducing guns would be a good or a bad thing. Things have changed. Golarion cannot be EVERYTHING, but we can make it be MOST THINGS. Certain elements are simply too expansive and combustible to pepper into a game setting without changing the entire setting—guns are one of those things. I suspect psionics are as well.
Well, to be honest, I don't really need or want psionics or firearms in Golarion. But I need them for off-planet adventures. Who can resist dinosaur-riding telephatic alien blond princess with saber in one hand and five-shooter in other?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Certain elements are simply too expansive and combustible... guns are one of those things. I suspect psionics are as well.Surely you can turn two wrongs into a right by adding Psionic Guns(tm) to Golarion. :P
Ahhhhh yes... the ubiquitous ancestral weapon of the Starpanda. :)
Also, if we put in a bunch of guns, we immediately have a horde of gun-nut gamers telling us how we did things wrong.
I wouldn't say that, may be some of you know the Shadowrun RPG which takes place in a fantasy near future on earth. There you have a lot of projectile weapons (from revolver to gattling) and it is all handled by rolling a bunch of D6s.
Furthermore as it plays on our world the Internet (in Shadowrun called the Matrix) has a big impact on the game and if you have a GM who is not 110% nerd, he simply cannot know everthing that is possible even in reality in out world. Therefor if he rules that a hacking operation is not possible (although it is even in our world) than it es not possible in the game period.
So if your guns can do certain things and cannot do other, which might or might not be possible in our world I see no problem with it at all, and someone who does misses imho the point.
Frankly, swords are something that exist I our world as well, also the times when they were used extensively are over.
Bows and Crossbows are more common in our world. And no matter if you get an arrow be a small or big crossbow strait into you heart ... you are most likely dead. DnD and therefor pathfinder see a difference in damage in light and heavy crossbows .... one could argue that this doen't reflect reality accurately.
The introduction of the Longbow on earth made Fullplatemails obsolete since it had enough punch to pierce through such armors. Similar to projectiles with a uranium can pierce through tank-armor.
That would mean, that longbows need a armor-breaking value, since plating offers no reliable defense against a shot from a long bow.
This implies any attack made with a long bow must be made against touch AC and not normal AC. btw. strictly speeking a long bow cannot effectively use the arrows of a short bow and vice versa, but the rulebook only mentions one type of "generic" arrows. etc. etc. etc.
You see you can always argue that some things are not realistc enough.
What about the explosion of a fireball, wouldn't it work similar to napalm consuming the oxygen in the nearby vicinity coursing everone in let's say 30 feet of the blast radius to suffocate? etc. etc. etc.
If you want weapons with maximum realism: Join the army!
If you want to play a fantasy RPG with the emphasis on FANTASY, accept that some adjustments must be made for the sake of gameplay and playability.
So if Pathfinder-Supplement XY states guns work this way, than they do. If they all use the same ammunition fine, bows do as well, crossbows to as well ... no one complains. I for my part was very happy when I skipped through the Campaign-setting last year and found the firearms section, I like them the way they are, as I like the way every other weapon is presented in the game as well. There exists no facing in Pathfinder and not hit zones, which is very good since it keeps things simple and playable. A fight that takes every detail occurring in reality into consideration leads to much abstract dice rolling (what about recoil from a firearm and all this implicates?)
Therefor expand on Alkenstar as much as you want, the numerous posts in the Forums show that people are very much interested in it, since it brings a new aspect (namely firearms) into an otherwise well known fantasy setting.
Greetz
Ganzir
Adventure Paths is what we do best; they're the backbone of our company. And frankly, admitting you don't buy tons of setting specific books sort of undermines your argument for us to shift focus from our extremely successful Adventure Path line to supplement books. :-P
That said, compiling portions of adventure paths or their support articles into reprint books (sort of like things like "The Best of Dragon Magazine" or the like) is certainly a possibility a few years down the road.
Oh, I put that bit about not buying fluff in there to indicate that I'm not necessarily your target audience by default.
However, by way of example: I'm currently playing a paladin of Iomedae in the Howl of the Carrion King. I'm very much interested in the article you recently published about Iomedae for additional information on her. But it's in an AP module I don't really feel inclined to purchase, particularly not since I prefer reading dead tree versus .pdf, just for that one article. That's a turn off to the products and information about Golarion. I'm rather attached to my own setting, but I like Golarion well enough. But if I have to buy 20 AP volumes to get details of the setting, each at around $15-20, I'm less likely to really get into the setting as a whole. I could buy several, for example, Eberron books for that price, and have a large amount of details about a different setting that really also interests me and that is more readily accessible without being a scavenger hunt for data. So, if I was to decide to run a campaign somewhere that wasn't A'Thea, I'd be more inclined to opt for Eberron, because I can get the details I want without having to spend as much. Does that make sense?
Certain elements are simply too expansive and combustible to pepper into a game setting without changing the entire setting—guns are one of those things. I suspect psionics are as well.
That's definitely the vibe I get from Paizo re: Psionics. It's kind of depressing, because I love the XPH, but it's also why I'm happy that Dreamscarred Press is putting such effort into Pathfinderizing that book.
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Creative Director
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However, by way of example: I'm currently playing a paladin of Iomedae in the Howl of the Carrion King. I'm very much interested in the article you recently published about Iomedae for additional information on her. But it's in an AP module I don't really feel inclined to purchase, particularly not since I prefer reading dead tree versus .pdf, just for that one article. That's a turn off to the products and information about Golarion. I'm rather attached to my own setting, but I like Golarion well enough. But if I have to buy 20 AP volumes to get details of the setting, each at around $15-20, I'm less likely to really get into the setting as a whole. I could buy several, for example, Eberron books for that price, and have a large amount of details about a different setting that really also interests me and that is more readily accessible without being a scavenger hunt for data. So, if I was to decide to run a campaign somewhere that wasn't A'Thea, I'd be more inclined to opt for Eberron, because I can get the details I want without having to spend as much. Does that make sense?
It does make sense.
But while we're publishing world-building books for Golarion, again, they're not the focus or the most successful part of what we do. That remains the adventures themselves. Changing our business model to weaken support for our adventure lines would hurt Paizo.
There's a relatively decent chance that, once we've got all 20 deity articles done via Pathifnder that we might compile them into a PDF or a book or something a year or so after we do the last one... but that's something that's still several years away in the future.
In any event, the book "Gods and Magic" was created specifically to address the fact that we needed to get more details out about the deities in a venue separate from the APs. There's a LOT of info in there.
And in the end, if you're really keen on your paladin of Iomedae, you could probably do a whole lot worse than picking up a copy of Pathfinder #26. Sure... you can look at that as spending $15 to $20 bucks for one 8-page article, but if you play your paladin through an entire AP over the course of several months or a even a few years... that's pretty good. And were we to release a big god book that compiles all of this stuff, that book would be more than 20 bucks—it'd probably be a $40 hardcover simply because that's what size we'd be looking at if we did 160+ pages of deity articles in one book. That's even less cost effective.
Put another way: One volume of Pathfinder is about a half tank of gas for a car. or one week of daily coffee...
Anyway... I understand where you're coming from. I think this is a case where we'll just have to agree to disagree, as they say.
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Put another way: One volume of Pathfinder is about a half tank of gas for a car. or one week of daily coffee...
Aaargh, American fuel prices ... Somebody wake me up when water gets more expensive than gas there. :)
And more on topic ... I'm somewhat the opposite - not a great fan of pulp, so Dinosaur Riding Monkey Kings With Laser Pistols are somewhat "meh" to me, while on the other hands I like the Alkenstar concept. I think I will allow the players in my upcoming CotCT campaign to buy some primitive firearms at stupid high prices.
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I always pictured Alkenstar as the Dead Lands (like the RPG).
Guns are perfectly acceptable there because it would fit that in a magic dead land some alternative would be developed, and it wouldn't spread widely because magic is easier to use.
I would consider putting Psionics in Alkenstar and Numeria to present a more pulpy flavor to that particular setting.
I like both of the countries because of the fact that they are so different.
In any fantasy setting that has magical proliferation (Golarion, Realms, Greyhawk and most especially Eberron), it is going to retard tehcnological advancement without gods, kings or such having to do so. Improving technology just is not as necessary or sought after. Why spend thousands of gold on weapons, thousands more training troops to use them, when you can use crossbow squads augmented by a wizard or sorcerer with wands for "squad suppoert weapons".
Actually, I can still see cannons developing. They are effective in siege warfare and can carry a larger punch than either a catapult or a ballista. They also make better naval weapons.
As for personal firearms, I would agree that there development is going to be slowed to some degree by magic.
However, by way of example: I'm currently playing a paladin of Iomedae in the Howl of the Carrion King. I'm very much interested in the article you recently published about Iomedae for additional information on her. But it's in an AP module I don't really feel inclined to purchase, particularly not since I prefer reading dead tree versus .pdf, just for that one article. That's a turn off to the products and information about Golarion. I'm rather attached to my own setting, but I like Golarion well enough. But if I have to buy 20 AP volumes to get details of the setting, each at around $15-20, I'm less likely to really get into the setting as a whole. I could buy several, for example, Eberron books for that price, and have a large amount of details about a different setting that really also interests me and that is more readily accessible without being a scavenger hunt for data. So, if I was to decide to run a campaign somewhere that wasn't A'Thea, I'd be more inclined to opt for Eberron, because I can get the details I want without having to spend as much. Does that make sense?It does make sense.
But while we're publishing world-building books for Golarion, again, they're not the focus or the most successful part of what we do. That remains the adventures themselves. Changing our business model to weaken support for our adventure lines would hurt Paizo.
There's a relatively decent chance that, once we've got all 20 deity articles done via Pathifnder that we might compile them into a PDF or a book or something a year or so after we do the last one... but that's something that's still several years away in the future.
In any event, the book "Gods and Magic" was created specifically to address the fact that we needed to get more details out about the deities in a venue separate from the APs. There's a LOT of info in there.
And in the end, if you're really keen on your paladin of Iomedae, you could probably do a whole lot worse than picking up a copy of Pathfinder...
I don't really know if this would be possible, but one thing that might be viable Is to make each and every one of the companion articles available individually as PDF. I would think that it would cost very little to change the page numbers and package it as an individual PDF, after all, it has already been written and layed out. I can't see it reducing the sales of the AP, and it could very well increase the amount of money that comes in from each AP, as people like Disciple of Sakura buy it, when they are unlikely to buy the adventure path that contains it.