Joe Quesada needs to go now.


Comics

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Quesada's the best thing to happen to comics since Stan Lee. Marvel Comics are better than they've ever been in my lifetime. Most of the credit for that goes to Quesada.

That said,I agree that Red -Hulk is unbearably stupid and nigh-unreadable.

Liberty's Edge

STAN LEE HULK!!!
AND A SHE LEE HULK!!!!
AND THEY'RE NOT GREEEEEEN!!!!!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Gave up on most marvel comics a long time ago, but yeah, I've been following these books in wikipedia, and this entire 'dark' thing is just leaving me, meh.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Heathansson wrote:

I looked it up on Wikipedia.

Whatev's.

Man, Marvel *used* to be da shiznit back in the day.

Bah. You're just a grouchy old man hollaring at those kids to get off your lawn.

Hey! You chased the bastards onto my lawn!!!

GET OFF MY LAWN YOU G**%!!N KIDS. YOUR COMICS SUCK AND YOU SMELL BAD. NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THE NEW MUTANTS ISSUES WHERE BIRDBOY JOINS AND THEY FIGHT DEVILS AND S$*$.

Liberty's Edge

Man Belasco was da shiznit.

Scarab Sages

Heathansson wrote:
Man Belasco was da shiznit.

Word.

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

I looked it up on Wikipedia.

Whatev's.

Man, Marvel *used* to be da shiznit back in the day.

Bah. You're just a grouchy old man hollaring at those kids to get off your lawn.

Hey! You chased the bastards onto my lawn!!!

GET OFF MY LAWN YOU G+*%&+N KIDS. YOUR COMICS SUCK AND YOU SMELL BAD. NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THE NEW MUTANTS ISSUES WHERE BIRDBOY JOINS AND THEY FIGHT DEVILS AND s#%&.

You must be the Dark Sebastian. See how wanky that sounds?

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

How about a Dark Red Hulk? They could shoot him off to space, like they did the green Hulk, so they could have a marooned Maroon Hulk.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I kill me.

Liberty's Edge

HULK HOLMES!!!

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Heathansson wrote:


You must be the Dark Sebastian. See how wanky that sounds?

No way! Dark Sebastian makes me sound edgy and extreme!

I'm still waiting for my pink power ring so I can join the multi-hued lantern corps and save the universe and stuff.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Heathansson wrote:

I looked it up on Wikipedia.

Whatev's.

Man, Marvel *used* to be da shiznit back in the day.

They didn't even make shiznit back in our day. You must be thinking of schnitzel.


Sebastian wrote:


GET OFF MY LAWN YOU G%+#&$N KIDS. YOUR COMICS SUCK AND YOU SMELL BAD. NOTHING IS BETTER THAN THE NEW MUTANTS ISSUES WHERE BIRDBOY JOINS AND THEY FIGHT DEVILS AND s~*~.

Birdboy? Birdboy? I'll have you know back in my day, we watched Karma get all fat because of Shadow King and we liked it . . . none of this new fangled Birdboy crap . . . why . . . I'll bet you think Nanny and the Orphan Maker are old school . . .

Crazy kids.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

The Asgard-induced Karma diet was pretty darned goofy...

Silver Crusade

Asgardian Wars was a high point for X-Men/New Mutants for me. Dani Moonstar was so tricked out by the time that arc was over. She might as well have been a munchkin, what with all the class and prestige class dipping she was doing.

As far as I'm concenred, a lot, if not most, of the crap that happened after 1996 is disconinuity. Storm marrying some guy she barely knows? Pfft. Like any decent writer and editorial team would let that happen.

Not that DC is any better in that regard. I could do with a lot less Quesada, Didio, Bendis, and Millar and a lot more David, Brubaker, Rucka, Vaughn, and Simone.

And for Heaven's sake never let Willingham near the Bat-family again.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012

Mikaze wrote:

Asgardian Wars was a high point for X-Men/New Mutants for me. Dani Moonstar was so tricked out by the time that arc was over. She might as well have been a munchkin, what with all the class and prestige class dipping she was doing.

As far as I'm concenred, a lot, if not most, of the crap that happened after 1996 is disconinuity. Storm marrying some guy she barely knows? Pfft. Like any decent writer and editorial team would let that happen.

Not that DC is any better in that regard. I could do with a lot less Quesada, Didio, Bendis, and Millar and a lot more David, Brubaker, Rucka, Vaughn, and Simone.

And for Heaven's sake never let Willingham near the Bat-family again.

I'm enjoying his Fables series. What did he do with the Batman books?

And, to stay somewhat on topic, I'd like to see any of folks you named in charge of things. It's never gonna happen, though.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Mikaze wrote:

Asgardian Wars was a high point for X-Men/New Mutants for me. Dani Moonstar was so tricked out by the time that arc was over. She might as well have been a munchkin, what with all the class and prestige class dipping she was doing.

I still love the pic of Illyana in her bikini, soul sword held high, facing off against the riders. Her and Dani were my favourites. Though Sam really needed to learn to stop saying "Ah'm invulnerable while Ah'm blasting." That never ends well.

Spoiler:
I didn't like the Karma is a lesbian thing. I think having Dani and Rahne in a relationship would have worked better

And I wasn't keen on the Storm/Black Panther thing. It was like someone went "We need to get a black couple!" I was more depressed that they dumped the thread of Jim Rhodes parents not liking him dating a white woman from War Machine when the book was canceled.


But Sam saying (Insert Sam Quote Here) is like Psylocke saying "my psychic knife is the focused totality of mental powers."

As much as I liked Chris Claremont's run, for a while I thought that a few of the X-Folks actually have a verbal component to their powers, since they always said the same thing before they used them.


KnightErrantJR wrote:

But Sam saying (Insert Sam Quote Here) is like Psylocke saying "my psychic knife is the focused totality of mental powers."

As much as I liked Chris Claremont's run, for a while I thought that a few of the X-Folks actually have a verbal component to their powers, since they always said the same thing before they used them.

Let's not forget Rogue with the whole "If I touch you, blah, blah, blah" every issue. Over and over.

Marvel has had many low and high points over the years. Anyone who says this is the highest point they've seen in their lifetime must be pretty young, though.
I give credit to Quesada for turning Marvel around. Kudos. Now go away. Go turn DC around. They are, quite possibly, more screwed up than Marvel right now.

Silver Crusade

taig wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

Asgardian Wars was a high point for X-Men/New Mutants for me. Dani Moonstar was so tricked out by the time that arc was over. She might as well have been a munchkin, what with all the class and prestige class dipping she was doing.

As far as I'm concenred, a lot, if not most, of the crap that happened after 1996 is disconinuity. Storm marrying some guy she barely knows? Pfft. Like any decent writer and editorial team would let that happen.

Not that DC is any better in that regard. I could do with a lot less Quesada, Didio, Bendis, and Millar and a lot more David, Brubaker, Rucka, Vaughn, and Simone.

And for Heaven's sake never let Willingham near the Bat-family again.

I'm enjoying his Fables series. What did he do with the Batman books?

And, to stay somewhat on topic, I'd like to see any of folks you named in charge of things. It's never gonna happen, though.

Willingham does a great job on Fables, but when he took the reigns on a Bat book during Yet Another Misbegotten Crossover that involved a character dying(horribly), he derailed one character beyond belief.

Spoiler:
The Spoiler had been beaten nearly to death and died in Dr. Leslie Thompkins' care. Fast forward a bit, and it's revealed that Leslie Thompkins LET Spoiler die in order to teach Batman a lesson about endangering children in his crusade against crime.

@$#%ing, LESLIE "Wouldn't let a mobster who just tried to kill her die on her watch" Thompkins.

When he was called out on it, Willingham didn't take the criticism gracefully. His reasoning was "It would have been unexpected and interesting!"

Some writers just work better on their original works than they do in a shared universe setting. Bendis really springs to mind.

To their credit though, they're not Chuck Austen.

Matthew Morris wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

Those two were my all-time favorites out of that cast, and I could actually see that working.

And Claremont-isms aside(OH GOD THE CLAREMONTISMS), at least the man knew consistent characterization.

He sure as hell didn't know how to prune dangling plot threads though!


Heh, and in one fell swoop, Leslie Thomkins went from being one of the newer elements of Batman that looked like it would become part of the mythology to the latest person to visit Harold in obscurity . . .

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Heathansson wrote:


You must be the Dark Sebastian. See how wanky that sounds?

No way! Dark Sebastian makes me sound edgy and extreme!

I'm still waiting for my pink power ring so I can join the multi-hued lantern corps and save the universe and stuff.

See? See? Now how do you think Wolverine feels?

Of to watch Dark Powerpuff Girls.

Sebastian=Mmmmmmojojojo? hmmmm.....

Silver Crusade

KnightErrantJR wrote:
Heh, and in one fell swoop, Leslie Thomkins went from being one of the newer elements of Batman that looked like it would become part of the mythology to the latest person to visit Harold in obscurity . . .

If I've heard correctly, someone else made an Authors Saving Throw and "fixed" that whole situation.

But yeah, good call on Harold. Especially after Hush.

RPG Superstar 2012

Mikaze wrote:

Willingham does a great job on Fables, but when he took the reigns on a Bat book during Yet Another Misbegotten Crossover that involved a character dying(horribly), he derailed one character beyond belief.

** spoiler omitted **

Some writers just work better on their original works than they do in a shared universe setting. Bendis really springs to mind.

To their credit though, they're not Chuck Austen.

I credit Chuck Austen for helping me realize I didn't need to get *every* core X-Men book.

I really miss Powers. I don't blame Bendis for doing the stuff that pays the bills, but I would like to see him working on something creator-owned. I think he's spread too thin on the Marvel books, although Ultimate Spider-Man is consistently good.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Charlie Brooks wrote:
Quesada deserves credit for turning Marvel around money-wise.

Yes, but if Marvel does not make money (and as you pointed out, Marvel needed to be turned around money wise) then the company folds outright, and no quality entertainment will ever be produced.

And, not everyone agrees that Marvel's current direction is not good. (Of course, I hated the Civil War, and haven't purchased a Marvel title since then.)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Mikaze wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

Those two were my all-time favorites out of that cast, and I could actually see that working.

And...

There was a site I saw once that put forth a convincing argument. I'd have enjoyed it, as long as it didn't devolve into Rahne angsting about her upbringing and the conflict again (gods not again).

Then again, I hate what they've done with Rahne, and to a lesser extent what they did with Dani. Her being depowered is almost a blessing (Though I'd hoped that maybe Forge would teach her some magic, So much for that idea.)

Edit: Just read who wrote 'Ghost Box' No wonder I hate it.

Silver Crusade

I hate Quesada!!! He is the main reason I don't read Marvel anymore. I pick up X-Men regular and X-Men Forever and that's it. I do not care at all for any other marvel comics. For many years these crossovers were terrible and don't get me started on what they did to Spiderman..

I was a huge Marvel Fanboy till mid 90s then i quit comics. Came back into comics a few years ago and I mostly read DC stuff. I just cannot stand what he has done to the company. He thinks he's this huge freaking Celeb now running around to Marvel movie premieres instead of the head of a comic book company.

When he goes I might come back. Until then I will only collect a few X-Men comics and only one because Claremont is on it.

Sovereign Court

Red Lobster


KnightErrantJR wrote:

Just wait . . . you haven't seen anything yet. After reading about how similar Captain America's "death" is to another superhero's death, I'm waiting to find out about Orange Hulk, Yellow Hulk, Blue Hulk, Indigo Hulk, and Violet Hulk, and how World War Hulks culminates in the prophesy of the coming of the Black Hulk.

Wait wait...you forgot...

Umber Hulk

"RAAAGH UMBER HULK SMASH WITH CONFUSING GAZE BUT WILL DC 15 NEGATES!! UMBER HULK HATE WILL SAVE!!"


Matthew Morris wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

Asgardian Wars was a high point for X-Men/New Mutants for me. Dani Moonstar was so tricked out by the time that arc was over. She might as well have been a munchkin, what with all the class and prestige class dipping she was doing.

I still love the pic of Illyana in her bikini, soul sword held high, facing off against the riders. Her and Dani were my favourites. Though Sam really needed to learn to stop saying "Ah'm invulnerable while Ah'm blasting." That never ends well.

** spoiler omitted **

And I wasn't keen on the Storm/Black Panther thing. It was like someone went "We need to get a black couple!" I was more depressed that they dumped the thread of Jim Rhodes parents not liking him dating a white woman from War Machine when the book was canceled.

Me either on that last one. I wanted Storm to remain single and independent, or at the VERY least with Forge(or even *gulp* Wolverine). Hooking her up with Black Panther was a poor decision. My wife considers it racism against Native Americans, though I think she's going a bit far on that one. I also enjoyed the War Machine thread, but I felt that it was a little too obvious(of COURSE they don't like her...) I would have preferred something a little more understated,like when Bobby Drake had an asian girlfriend and he had to stand up to his parents about it.

Powers needed a verbal component...heh..I thought I was the only one who noticed the "invulnerable while I'm blastin'" schtick.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Freehold DM wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
And I wasn't keen on the Storm/Black Panther thing. It was like someone went "We need to get a black couple!" I was more depressed that they dumped the thread of Jim Rhodes parents not liking him dating a white woman from War Machine when the book was canceled.

Me either on that last one. I wanted Storm to remain single and independent, or at the VERY least with Forge(or even *gulp* Wolverine). Hooking her up with Black Panther was a poor decision. My wife considers it racism against Native Americans, though I think she's going a bit far on that one. I also enjoyed the War Machine thread, but I felt that it was a little too obvious(of COURSE they don't like her...) I would have preferred something a little more understated,like when Bobby Drake had an asian girlfriend and he had to stand up to his parents about it.

Powers needed a verbal component...heh..I thought I was the only one who noticed the "invulnerable while I'm blastin'" schtick.

Forge or Bishop. I'd have been happy with Bishop, because they were writing chemestry between them when he showed up, you know back when Bishop kicked butt and wasn't crazy. But I like(d) Forge. I'd have enjoyed a Storm/Bishop paring that ended poorly. After all, Bishop was raised almost worshiping the X-men. How long can that last when your idol wakes up with bed head and has mood swings. :-)

I'd forgotten Bobby and April. I was pulling for them and for Hank and Trish.

War Machine may have been obivious, but I liked the additional layer it (and maybe Jim's son?) had in it.


Heathansson wrote:
I don't even know what the Dark Avengers are.

I think the Dark Avengers were the "Black Ops" version of the Avengers. You know, doing all the secret-nasty stuff (like killing people) so that Eisenfuhrer, I mean Iron Man, wouldn't get a bad name.

Or maybe I'm thinking of the X-team that had Thunderbird, Wolfsbane, and the female Wolverine clone?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Eric Hinkle wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
I don't even know what the Dark Avengers are.

I think the Dark Avengers were the "Black Ops" version of the Avengers. You know, doing all the secret-nasty stuff (like killing people) so that Eisenfuhrer, I mean Iron Man, wouldn't get a bad name.

Or maybe I'm thinking of the X-team that had Thunderbird, Wolfsbane, and the female Wolverine clone?

'Dark' seems to be the new 'stick an X on the front of it' meme.

Spoiler:
Though Emma's doublecross rocked. First time (not counting New Mutants or the Dresden Files) that I wanted to get a comic book. I don't want to see her do a heel turn for a long time.

I don't like the X-force theme for that reason. I want my heroes to be, well, heroes, a Wolverine or Magik on the team of heroes is ok, for conflict, but I don't want to read about an entire team where Wolverine is the moderate one.

Scarab Sages

I'm running with Heathy here:
PUNISHULK (why not, War Journal already did Venom Punisher and Captain America Punisher) - Betsy is murdered by mobsters and Hulk declares war on the Mafia.
THULK (Thor is infected with Gamma Radiated blood somehow)
THANHULK (Hulk reassembles the Infinity Gauntlet)
VENOMULK (Hulk gets the symbiote suit somehow...)
CARNULK (THE ULTIMATE - VENOMULK BUT RED AND MORE EVIL!)

Also:

Zombie and Ultimate versions of all the above! Because Ultimate sells more and zombies are so hot right now!

Dark Archive

Heathansson wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:
So, whatever doesn't get the "Red" prefix gets the "Dark" prefix? I was just wondering how many Dark teams we'll see before the trend dies. I'm hoping to see Dark Power Pack myself.

I don't even know what the Dark Avengers are. I guess it's like Michelob Dark for comics.

I don't want to know anymore.
Galactus ate Marvel earth for all I care. I just don't care.

I like the Goon, Northlanders (when they're not getting all p.c. preachy), and Batman and Robin and that's it.

Check out Mouse Guard. Good Stuff.

Dark Archive

IconoclasticScream wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:
Well, at least Marvel can't copy Blackest Night too closely . . . the only people that could come back would be Uncle Ben and Thunderbird.
When Mimic was revealed to be alive I lost all remaining faith in humanity.

I liked Mimic still being alive. Of course I was already playing him as still alive in a Marvel RPG campaign, so that might have something to do with it.

RPG Superstar 2012

KnightErrantJR wrote:
Well, at least Marvel can't copy Blackest Night too closely . . . the only people that could come back would be Uncle Ben and Thunderbird.

That's what I thought too, until...

BEHOLD -->NECROSHA.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

taig wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:
Well, at least Marvel can't copy Blackest Night too closely . . . the only people that could come back would be Uncle Ben and Thunderbird.

That's what I thought too, until...

BEHOLD -->NECROSHA.

Oh gods... I'd been reading the Selene subplot in Wiki, but I thought she was just absorbing dead mutants' powers, not playing Black Lantern.

Dark Archive

taig wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:
Well, at least Marvel can't copy Blackest Night too closely . . . the only people that could come back would be Uncle Ben and Thunderbird.

That's what I thought too, until...

BEHOLD -->NECROSHA.

That's enough to make Nuke ask for a White or a Blue.

"No, not a Red, give me a blue. I can't take the pain, give me a Blue."

RPG Superstar 2012

David Fryer wrote:
taig wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:
Well, at least Marvel can't copy Blackest Night too closely . . . the only people that could come back would be Uncle Ben and Thunderbird.

That's what I thought too, until...

BEHOLD -->NECROSHA.

That's enough to make Nuke ask for a White or a Blue.

"No, not a Red, give me a blue. I can't take the pain, give me a Blue."

Hee hee!

I'm ready to throw my hands up with both companies' super-hero output. There's still some Vertigo stuff and Brubaker's Criminal.


The only Marvel title I read is Astonishing X-Men myself. The characters (for the most part) act like they are supposed to and it doesn't seem to be pulled into the events like all the other X-titles.

Shadow Lodge

Davi The Eccentric wrote:
As far as I can tell, the Dark Avengers are a team Norman Osborn (who shouldn't even be alive, but that's a rant for another time)

Eh, he's been such an amazing character since returning that's most Spidey fans are GLAD he returned. Better Osborne as Spidey's arch-nemesis that a chocolate pudding monster from outer space.

My biggest problem with Marvel as of late is the Brand New Day BS, as well as the whole revealing of his identity that preceded it. That's just vastly out of character for Peter Parker.

And it's timing was horrible as well. Norman Osborne is at the apex of his power...but due to the Brand New Day BS, he doesn't know Peter's identity any more. Wasted opportunity.

Going back a bit further, House of M was SUPPOSED to purge the overabundance of mutants from the Marvel universe. But all it really did is get rid of characters nobody had seen or cared about in years, and temporarily de-power a few major characters.

Shadow Lodge

Jason Ellis 350 wrote:
The only Marvel title I read is Astonishing X-Men myself. The characters (for the most part) act like they are supposed to and it doesn't seem to be pulled into the events like all the other X-titles.

I haven't kept track of Astonishing since Whedon left...how is it these day? That was one thing I loved about the series...it didn't get intertwined in all the crossovers to the point where you were barely able to understand what was going on without a comprehensive knowledge of the history of the Marvel Universe in general, and a Ph.D. in X-Men Mythology in particular.


I like Astonishing myself, but I am not one the the "Joss Whedon is my master now" types either.

I didn't assume that without him the title was going to suck. Sure, Joss is a great storyteller, but that doesn't mean he is the only guy out there capable of telling one worth reading.

Of course, with the crap that was Morrison's X-Men run, perhaps anybody looks good in comparison.

Shadow Lodge

It wasn't really that I lost interest because of Whedon leaving, it was the team lineup changes that lost my interest. I've never been a huge Storm fan, and my favorite character was Kitty. So after Whedon's run the title just didn't have as much appeal for me.


I understand the part about having a favorite character getting a bad treatment. I hadn't read anything by Marvel for YEARS due to the treatment they gave Cyclops (the character who got me back into comics through X-Factor. It didn't hurt that I was a tall skinny brown haired kid that wore glasses). He was transformed from a character into a caricature.

Likewise I dropped anything to do with the Justice League after Morrison finally got his wish and the Martian Manhunter got killed off.

The Whedon comment is something in response to things said on other comics boards. The mass of people who claimed how bad the series was after he left yet never actually read anything past that point was mind-boggling.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I just read Mew Mutants, in part because Illyana 2/0 is frakking awesome, but I've always liked the New Mutants.

Just stopped by the store and they were out of NM 6-8 because of Necrosha. NM 9 though is nice. "I hacked it. I prefer to say I asked it nicely."

The only thing that offends me more than the spider-screwing, wasp killing, etc is that they brought Bucky back. Barns should have stayed dead.

And killing J'onn is what turned me off of DC. Heck it was the DCAU and their Martian Manhunter that got me back into DC.

Edit: and the Marvel Spouce abuse continues. They killed Diamond Lil off in Necrosha stupidly, and I liked Lil.

RPG Superstar 2012

Given how abysmally the entire Alpha Flight team was treated in New Avengers #16 ("We're Alpha Flight!", and one panel later, they're all dead), and the general mistreatment of Northstar, I'm not terribly surprised about Diamond Lil.

Dark Archive

Upon going to Wikipedia and reading up on Necrosha, I have realized that Joe is fully out of ideas. Now I remember why I hate him....and BENDIS! as well.

Shadow Lodge

I think you misunderstood me. Kitty's "death" was very well handled. I didn't stop reading because I was mad they killed my favorite character...I stopped reading because the remaining lineup of the team had very little interest for me.

At any rate, Kitty returns next month, so yay!

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