I read spoilers from the leaked plots for Episodes 6 and 7. My reactions to them range from "it's about f'ing time" to "meh" to "son, I am disappoint."
The main disappointment involves something that's been long speculated, but which when confirmed isn't...big enough. Although there is now the future prospect of pitting brother against brother in a pairing no one would have guessed at before.
I haven't actually watched either leaked episode, just got someone's leaked plot points from YouTube.
No leaks!
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Dude don't do that damon. Don't do that at all.
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I read spoilers from the leaked plots for Episodes 6 and 7. My reactions to them range from "it's about f'ing time" to "meh" to "son, I am disappoint."
The main disappointment involves something that's been long speculated, but which when confirmed isn't...big enough. Although there is now the future prospect of pitting brother against brother in a pairing no one would have guessed at before.
I haven't actually watched either leaked episode, just got someone's leaked plot points from YouTube.
Eh the only thing here mildly spoilery is 'unexpected' bro v bro down.
Or really unexpected: Sam vs Ash Zombie DickOn in a battle we'll call "Dead2Me vs Dead4Lyfe".
Found EP 6, enjoyed it.
There are elements to the show still crafted well, but I'm less pleased with some aspects. They need someone to review their screenplays more thoroughly. All the big scenes are really cool, along with the big plot lines, but small details are getting skipped.
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Found EP 6, enjoyed it.
There are elements to the show still crafted well, but I'm less pleased with some aspects. They need someone to review their screenplays more thoroughly. All the big scenes are really cool, along with the big plot lines, but small details are getting skipped.
I think there are plenty of people involved in crafting and reviewing the scripts - this is a huge production, not a small time independent film. Heck, Martin is a producer on the show and is involved in the story as well as the show runners.
I'm also curious what details you feel they are 'missing', since there is no book to be compared.
Martin sat down with the show runners and spelled out how the books end. They are following his outline and plot details, and Martin is always available for questions etc. I'm fairly certain Martin himself sees these scripts before they begin production of each new episode, so I think what we are seeing on screen is pretty darn close to Martin's vision of how things should be progressing
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Vision is not details.
Vision is the overarching plot.
Details are the small things. Like the specific words a character uses, lines of dialogue.
The 'teleportation' issue is getting worse and worse. Large fleets appearing and disappearing at whim is getting worse and worse. They need to pay attention to details of how characters speak which would go a long way to address these.
I get that we had a lot of travel scenes in the first few seasons. In a way, that's good because it sets up the audience to understand the scale of the land. Now, we just need characters to reference that knowledge. We don't need multiple scenes showing travel, but at least say... 60 seconds worth of dialogue referencing travel during an entire episode.
'Realistically' this season is probably taking place over a year (or more) of in world time, but the show is being written like it's taking less than a week.
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The show is being written that way because that's what it is from the perspective of the audience.
60 seconds is a lot of dialogue. Especially about something no one is going to care about, for example, "Boy, it sure took a long time to sail from The Wall to Dragonstone. Yep, long time." A minute's worth of that is a minute of wasted time.
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Poor Theon. That guy's had it rough.
There was some considerable irony in revisiting that conversation.
I think there are plenty of people involved in crafting and reviewing the scripts - this is a huge production, not a small time independent film. Heck, Martin is a producer on the show and is involved in the story as well as the show runners.
I'm also curious what details you feel they are 'missing', since there is no book to be compared.
Martin sat down with the show runners and spelled out how the books end. They are following his outline and plot details, and Martin is always available for questions etc. I'm fairly certain Martin himself sees these scripts before they begin production of each new episode, so I think what we are seeing on screen is pretty darn close to Martin's vision of how things should be progressing
It isn't, or at least not as much as you'd think.
George sat down with the showrunners in Santa Fe in spring 2013 to plot out the last few seasons. However, George cautioned the producers that although he knows the broad strokes of the ending, which major characters live and die, the fate of the Iron Throne etc, there's also tons of stuff he hadn't figured out at all and will only work out during the writing. The fates of apparently every single second-tier character downwards are still not decided by Martin and how some subplots turn out. There's also the fact that the producers chose not to introduce some subplots at all, made up some of their own stuff and heavily disagreed with Martin on some of his character and story choices and have changed them from what Martin intended (and still intends).
A good example is that one major character who's died on TV is still alive in the books and Martin has chosen a different story outcome for that person. Another is that the Night King does not exist, at all, in the books (even an analogue) and is purely an invention of the TV show. How closely the Night King's fate aligns to that of the Others in the book is highly questionable.
Martin is still involved in offering advice, reviewing scripts and advising on casting, but his involvement is a mere fraction of what it was back in Seasons 1-4. I suspect some elements will be the same in both (as we've already been told Hodor is, and I suspect Jon's parentage is) but others will likely be very, very different.
Supposedly The Night King might have existed in Book!GoT but died long ago and stayed down.
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In the books, there is a tale of the King of Night which was one of the Stark progenitors. And he did die in the tale.
Thoughts:
I'm totally surprised that the only one to die from the Fellowship was Thoros. Also, do we know if Viserion or Raegal was the one to bite it to the ice spear?
The whole bend the knee scene completely sets up a marriage alliance as they are creepy-aunt'ing it pretty hard with the two of them.
Additionally, the travel people should be partly happy with tens of minutes wasted on traveling. Now they're gonna whine about how fast the raven flew and how fast the help got there, but the show-runners threw you all a bone with a banal series of on the road scenes.
So I'm setting the odds of a wall collapse for the fade to black (will be to white) next week at 80%. There is literally nothing else to stand in the way of the final battles except mustering and armies marching north. I can see how they could end with just
wrecking crap as named NPC's watch aghast, but with six-ish hours left in the series (after next week), they have got to get the ball rolling on the real stakes of the series.
It was
well, all I can say is that the last two seasons feel too "hollywoodish" for me. Really feel I will prefer the book versions when they are finally written. taking it on faith they will even if it is 10 years from now.
I'm betting on Mountain to get controlled.
Night King: Oh hey, zombie right near a very important person. *yoink*
I wish I stopped with this series at the end of A Storm of Swords, the books and tv episodes after ruins it mostly
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I want to know one thing from last nights show.
** spoiler omitted **
I want to know:
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I guess im just some sort of a@#hole, but I liked the banal road scenes that added a sense of travel and provided some exposition. I forgot the show even has it anymore.
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Wouldn't say an a-hole. We just want different things out of the show, and travel scenes, to me, are precious wastes of screen time when we're in the home stretch. Like Faegon in the books.
In a show that gave us seasons of snail's pace plotting in Slaver's Bay, and spent half a season on Dorne (that went absolutely nowhere), I personally am glad they've cut out the slog for actual plot movement. The multiple travel scenes last night, while some were humorous, could have been knocked down one or two and we would have still understood that the Fellowship was more than a half a day away from the wall. Really the only conversations we needed were Tormond recalling Mance's pride getting wildlings killed and Jorah implying Jon's fire-zombie seed could reawaken Dany's burnt womb (see below).
Magic Zombie Sex:
Jorah also probably became privy to Jon being a fire zombie at some point last night. Beric wasn't really coy about it, and I'm sure Jorah heard it at some point. Maybe he thinks since Jon is now magical as well as Dany (who, by her Unburnt title, has magically survive a few blood magic conflagrations), they can have a magical baby together.
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The show is being written that way because that's what it is from the perspective of the audience.
60 seconds is a lot of dialogue. Especially about something no one is going to care about, for example, "Boy, it sure took a long time to sail from The Wall to Dragonstone. Yep, long time." A minute's worth of that is a minute of wasted time.
Do you think I'm suggesting 60 seconds continuous of that?
And it's not wasted time if it removes the jarring feeling of teleportation.
If something makes a show have greater continuity while continuing to allow the story to develop, that is by definition not wasted time, because it is directly telling the story.
Part of the story of Westeros is the problem of distance and time. It's been part of the story the whole time, until now. Now everything is happening instantaneously.
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Wouldn't say an a-hole. We just want different things out of the show, and travel scenes, to me, are precious wastes of screen time when we're in the home stretch. Like Faegon in the books.
In a show that gave us seasons of snail's pace plotting in Slaver's Bay, and spent half a season on Dorne (that went absolutely nowhere), I personally am glad they've cut out the slog for actual plot movement. The multiple travel scenes last night, while some were humorous, could have been knocked down one or two and we would have still understood that the Fellowship was more than a half a day away from the wall. Really the only conversations we needed were Tormond recalling Mance's pride getting wildlings killed and Jorah implying Jon's fire-zombie seed could reawaken Dany's burnt womb (see below).
Magic Zombie Sex:
** spoiler omitted **
I felt the scenes were good for the character's interacting and learning about each other. I felt that was useful. The show's strength is strong characterization. Dragon's are really cool, but without good characters that feeling of coolness would fade quickly.
I don't need long, lengthy travel scenes. In fact, I don't want them either any more. But we've seen people traveling for several seasons of the show, we know that characters are separated by hundreds of miles. We KNOW this. I also know the value in putting characters from different locations in the same scene. All I want is a...
"How was your journey?"
"I didn't come to talk about riding a f!@@ing horse, you killed my [insert dead character here]."
If the characters in the show express awareness of the size of Westeros, then the teleportation no longer becomes an issue. We don't need to show them walking every mile.
For example, if after Yara's fleet was destroy, Davos pointed to a map and said "Euron probably hid is fleet there" boom!, the audience now knows there's an explanation for how that happened. We don't need a whole episode detailing how Euron hid his fleet, because we know that Davos is an experienced smuggler/sailor and knows what he's talking about. We don't even need the whole explanation, we just need to know that one exists and the characters are aware of it.
Yesterday's episode had a bunch of cool visuals but overall hurt the story I think.
While I do appreciate that the show's pace has picked up a fair bit, I feel it's also hurting the show greatly, or being used to cover up shortcomings in other areas.
Characters continually expouse viewpoints that don't really make a whole lot of sense. Better pacing could have maybe set those up better. And the swift seems to as much conceal major logic holes that don't make a ton of sense.
Bran, going from fairly normal to robot boy between last season and this.
Arya, whose beef with Sansa really feels out of nowhere and random. Seriously, two episodes or so ago with had there subdued but at least happy reunion, and she is now threatening to murder her sister and wear her face.
Tyrion's "capture a wight plan", mostly because it just strikes me that show Tyrion would have no expectation that Cersei could be convinced to work with anyone.
Jon going along with the whole wight plan. Even accepting that I think Jon has sort of a death wish mentality (which is consistent with the last few seasons), the practicality of it seems far fetched. If this was the Walking Dead...sure. Zombies just aimlessly mill around on that show and capturing and retrieving one would be no probs. But the wights, as Jon full well knows from Bran, are moving in a giant army, and being coordinated by intelligent beings.
The show is more and more feeling like a cliff notes/high lites reel version of GoT than it feels like GoT.
Yeah, I find myself mentally checked out of Arya's story line now. They need to either make her full villain, or redirect her at people the audience doesn't like. Three story lines I would have loved to see with her:
1. becomes a faceless man, brings death to Westeros and kills beloved characters in the name of the many-faced god (including anyone who's been resurrected by the Lord of Light).
2. returns to Westeros as Arya and gets revenge for her family.
3. returns to Winterfell and uses her new ninja skills to help her family.
Instead Arya is now a vindictive, moody teenager who just wants be mean to her older sister. Hopefully they clean that up fast. If there's a moment of realization that Littlefinger is playing her, I'll be okay with it, but right now she just feels dumb to me.
Kind of saw the last scene coming last night, I mean that is too big of a corpse to ignore but
it's still something that just leaves you staring at the screen for a moment before saying "well....s*@#, that's not good"
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...Did Arya and Sansa get along well when they were younger? To me it just seems that Time and Tradgedy have simply made an already rocky relationship worse.
What the Starks really need to do is sit down and talk to each other. Really really talk and tell each other what they have each been through. Bran included.
I haven't minded the jet-packing too much in the show. Usually they acknowledge that some time has passed. John says he is going to see Danerys, then shows up at Dragonstone an unspecified time later. I'm ok with that. But last night, the writers created a time sensitive situation and then left us with no sense of how long it took to solve it.
Jon going into the water only to swim out and make it back to the wall a minute later was a waste. Just cut that part. And don't pay off the meeting of Benjen and Jon in 5 seconds of interaction. They could have stuck Benjen on the island with them, had a real encounter. Some real awkwardness with having a wight on the island, and then had Benjen sacrifice himself instead of Jon for 5 seconds.
Having the dragons save them, bringing Jon and Dany together, losing a dragon. All of that was fine. But no reason not to put Jon on a dragon and let him fly away at that point. Even better, leave him behind, let Dany be sad about it, but let the other dragon go back and pick him up, barely dodging the spear.
I guess im just some sort of a@#hole, but I liked the banal road scenes that added a sense of travel and provided some exposition. I forgot the show even has it anymore.
I enjoyed the road scenes. It was like watching a superhero team get together for the first time or something. I loved the Torment vs. Hound:
"You're with Brienne of f**king Tarth?""Well, I'm not really with her yet, but here's hoping."
I'm a little disappointed that Jorah never looked at Jon and said, "Served under my father? Do you, like, know a guy named Samwell Tarly? 'Cause that's the dude who cured me of the greyscale in Oldtown." And Jon would be all, "Omigod that's hilarious, I totally sent him there to study as a Maester, small Westeros, right?"
But the manly-man-theatre Longclaw exchange was cool enough.
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Oh lord, please tell me we are going to get a love triangle of Torment, Hound and Briana only to have the two of them swear to kill Jamie when they spot her looking at him during the upcoming meeting.
With Jorah sitting at the side saying "Welcome to my life"
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I want to know one thing from last nights show.
** spoiler omitted **
it felt like a trap to me. he had the chains ready and those killer harpoons. if Bran can see the past and other places, maybe the night king has got some prophesy foretelling thing. that is why he just stood there watching them on a rock, to bait the dragons.
Well, the Night King totally scattered Bran's murder (take it up with the english language, that's just the word for a bunch of crows) so the two of them seem to work on some parallel level of extrasensory perception equivalence. Or something.
Spell correct man, just, spell correct, you know?
Well, the Night King totally scattered Bran's murder (take it up with the english language, that's just the word for a bunch of crows) so the two of them seem to work on some parallel level of extrasensory perception equivalence. Or something.
There's been speculation that Bran is the Night King. Seems wildly unlikely to me. He'd have regain the use of his legs, physically travel to the past and remain there, become his own namesake by becoming Brandon the Builder, forget everything he knows about White Walkers being a Very Bad Thing, take one as a mate, and ultimately become the Night King himself.
That speculation wouldn't happen to be by people who have seen Stay and assume they've discovered some lost key to Benioff's work, would it? 'Cause it's just a movie script he wrote earlier in his career. I watched it and I enjoyed, but I didn't feel like it revealed any GoT secrets.
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Arya used a lot of dialogue explains to Sansa how the two of them are different, then gets mad and can't understand why Sansa didn't react the same way Arya would if she were being coerced. Arya talks so much about how she was training, but she hasn't figured out that Sana has being training for her roll as well.
Part of me hopes they're each trying to play the game with littlefinger and they haven't figured it out yet.
How long did it take for the raven to get to Dragonstone?
The maps say it's a journey of about 1500 miles.
An earth raven can fly at about 50mph. That's 30 hours travel.
Apparently there's a relay system for ravens, so they wouldn't need as much time to rest as you'd expect.
But then there's the return trip to be added on. So they ought to have been on that rock for at least three days.
Enough time for the ice to refreeze.
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His name is Tormund, not Torment.
Just saying ...
Hmmm? {listens intently to crossbows} Why yes, Planescape: Tormund does sound like it'd be a heck of a lot of fun.
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I think Arya is trying to push Sansa into a panic state and push her further into LF. At some point she will spring the trap on them.
Nah, I'm all but certain Sansa and Arya are working a plan together to flush out Little Finger. I don't think they are actually fighting or at odds at all - I think it's all a ruse to out maneuver Little Finger. I would not be surprised if Little Finger gets taken out by them (probably Arya) using the very dagger he gave to Arya (the same dagger Little Finger held to Ned Stark's throat way back in season 1.)
How poetic would that be!?!