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So, my friend is starting up a sailing campaign, and I was considering making an Oracle of Besmara (goddess of Pirates: http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Besmara .) Now, I know that NO ONE else in the party is going to be a trapfinding rogue, so I am taking the Seeker archtype so I can essentially do trapfinding (and it makes sense for a disciple of Besmara, sneaking into places and absconding with the contents of a treasure chest or three. Plus it stacks with the find traps spell which makes up for the non-stellar perception score.) If I can eventually find a set of those lockpicks that pick for you from a bit away, I'll be golden.
Here's the idea: I want to basically play a healer/buffer. Now I'd LOVE to go with the waves mystery, as that can net me walking on water (and eventual swim speed of 60 feet) becoming a water elemental (which comes with a host of benefits, like being immune to critical hits and poison) and baleful polymorph, just a to name a few (in addition to some really useful aquatic buffs, like slipstream)
I just don't know if I can pull it off though. I mean, I read the 'oracle class guide' and the guy was pretty disparaging about in-combat healing, but I have found it very useful, ESPECIALLY channel energy+selective channeling (it's great to heal up damage from AoE attacks.) Plus not having to 'waste' spell slots on things like lesser restoration, restoration, heal, and breath of life leaves me free to choose more spells that will be useful for buffing the party, like prayer, blessing of ferver, etc.
Not all the other players have generated characters yet, but operating under the assumption that I am going to be the only healer, do you think it is feasible to play a "non life-mystery oracle" and still be the party's primary healer?
I think so. Like most of the others we do most of our healing after combat. Until you get Heal, most in combat healing is to deal with emergencies like preventing people from dying. Without lots of healing you just play a little different.
do you think it is feasible to play a "non life-mystery oracle" and still be the party's primary healer?
I'd stray from using direct in combat healing too much, but yeah, you can totally be a buffer/healer kind of guy. In combat healing is mostly avoided because it scales horribly and as a full caster you have a lot of options, many of which keep the damage from coming in the first place. Consider using a wand for healing out of combat.
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I think so. Like most of the others we do most of our healing after combat. Until you get Heal, most in combat healing is to deal with emergencies like preventing people from dying. Without lots of healing you just play a little different.
What about the other part? Lesser restoration, restoration, and heal are all pretty-much givens as spells any healer SHOULD take. Getting them for free is pretty hard to resist.
Also: what spells should I take as a 1st level oracle (given that I only know two.) I was thinking of Bless (+1 to attack rolls all around is pretty good no matter what your level) and Enhance water (which I KNOW is kinda a waste, but given that my character is an oracle of Besmara . . . plus the social benefits of being able to make free booze on a pirate ship could be innumerable.) I was also looking at Air-bubble (a great way to give ANYONE waterbreathing for a bit) doom (pretty good debuff for a lvl 1 spell, can trade out once it becomes useless at lvl 4) and Burning disarm (which again, I can trade out at lvl 4. Am I missing something? Are there other spells that I "should" have always?
I think so. Like most of the others we do most of our healing after combat. Until you get Heal, most in combat healing is to deal with emergencies like preventing people from dying. Without lots of healing you just play a little different.What about the other part? Lesser restoration, restoration, and heal are all pretty-much givens as spells any healer SHOULD take. Getting them for free is pretty hard to resist.
Scrolls and other forms of consumables are your friend.
What about the other part? Lesser restoration, restoration, and heal are all pretty-much givens as spells any healer SHOULD take. Getting them for free is pretty hard to resist.
Except... Are you getting them for free, really? You plan on taking them, yes. Either you receive them as your mystery spells, or you buy them yourself.
So, the question becomes, if you choose another mystery, would you rather get those mystery spells and buy the restorations, or get the restorations as mystery spells, and buy other cleric spells? If the mystery spells cannot be bought as cleric spells, then you'll miss out on options.
For lesser restoration and more situational spells, I highly recommend pages of spell knowledge. The lower level ones are relatively inexpensive to free up a spell known. Recently grabbed two for mine for endure elements and remove fear.
As for the question itself, other oracles can do fine. Playing one right now that mostly blasts and crowd controls (flame oracle), but having the healing as an option when the party needs is always nice. It does depend on the party and their attitude toward healers in general.
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Wowee, it's so cool to see another oracle! Too bad the gods or whoever saddled you up with water related powers; fire is so much more neato! Of course, everyone doesn't seem to think so. There are more than a few towns that won't let me back inside. The nerve!
I don't really know who this Besmara guy is but if he's responsible for your powers I'd say to shove them right back in his face. Although, he likes treasure you say? I like treasure. Maybe he's alright, after all.
Anyway, as far as the Magic stuff goes, if you really have no intention of blowing things up (because I could totally help you with that) then the most useful spells for yourself and your party are going to be Bless, Sanctuary, Protection from Evil/Chaos, Shield of Faith and Magic Weapon. Later, if you work at it, you could learn Air Bubble, Read Weather and then Enhance Water for flavor. *cackles* Do you see what I did there? Haha! For flavor! Oh man, I should have been a bard.
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For lesser restoration and more situational spells, I highly recommend pages of spell knowledge. The lower level ones are relatively inexpensive to free up a spell known. Recently grabbed two for mine for endure elements and remove fear.
As for the question itself, other oracles can do fine. Playing one right now that mostly blasts and crowd controls (flame oracle), but having the healing as an option when the party needs is always nice. It does depend on the party and their attitude toward healers in general.
Wow, I hadn't seen those before. I was only familiar with the robe that did that (can't find the name of it right now, it's in the Gear book. You can cast any scroll you put in it as if it were part of your spells known.)
As for spells at first level, any suggestions?
P.S.
Wowee, it's so cool to see another oracle! Too bad the gods or whoever saddled you up with water related powers; fire is so much more neato! Of course, everyone doesn't seem to think so. There are more than a few towns that won't let me back inside. The nerve!I don't really know who this Besmara guy is but if he's responsible for your powers I'd say to shove them right back in his face. Although, he likes treasure you say? I like treasure. Maybe he's alright, after all.
Well, first off SHE is the GODDESS of Piracy and pirates. And really, I don't think she has anything AGAINST fire . . . I mean, she uses those firearm-ey things, but really, lots of water powers so she can help sailors who fall overboard after they get drunk. Also, she likes to sail around RAIDING THE ABYSS FOR TREASURE. Yeah, she's pretty cool in my book.
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If you want access to the restoration line of spells without blowing spells known on them, you don't have to take the life mystery and don't have to spend gold to get them as consumables either...if you are a half-elf. Why? There is a racial spell, for half-elves, called Paragon Surge. With it you can give yourself the "expanded arcana" feat temporarily for any spell you want on the cleric list that you are able to cast. Congratulations, you now have access to the ENTIRE cleric spell list, including the resto spells, with a single third level spell. If you want to be -really- cheesy, you can also take the Eldritch Heritage feat for the Arcane Bloodline and use Paragon Surge to access the WIZ/SORC LIST as well via giving yourself improved eldritch heritage. However, if you don't want to spend the feats going for expanded arcana will get you every resto spell and healing spell on the cleric list as a "spell known" for the price of one 3rd level spell known, which is not a bad investment at all. Sadly, this requires half-elf for your race...but half-elves are pretty cool anyway, get a flexible stat boost and the same favored class bonus as humans(which is AWESOME) so being a half-elf is not a bad deal at all...
I'm a big fan of the Human Favored Class Bonus for Oracles. Once you get to level 4 you can add useful spells to your list at every level-up.
Life Oracle may give you a couple of Cleric tricks but you can get so much more. Restoration and Heal may be must-have healer spells but you get the option to take them anyway. The truly interesting spells are the ones normally restricted to Arcane Casters. Life mystery's revelations are actually unremarkable compared to the competition (unless you're a dipping Oradin).
Even if you go Dark Tapestry mystery for Black Tentacles, Feeblemind and a pair of wings you can still get Restoration and Heal. Ditto if you choose Lunar/Nature for an Animal Companion and Charisma Bonus to AC.
The real challenge is coming up with a combination that gets you all the arcane and divine spells you want with great revelations. Elven Ancient Lorekeepers with Eldritch Heritage are feat-intensive but very flexible.
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Unless your party is utterly reckless and, thus, depends upon lots of in-combat healing, any sort of Oracle will be a terrific addition to the group. If this is their approach, probably not even a life oracle can save them for very long ;-)
Seems like a Waves oracle will be terrific in a seagoing campaign. Lots of reasons why.
Oracles can be very effective martial combatants, if you build them that way. For about 25% of build resources your PC can be a competent martial combatant.
Oracles have a very limited spell selection, so be sure to choose spells you will use frequently. Bless is never bad, but a wand might make it obsolete. If you are martially competent you will benefit immensely from Divine Favor(Fate's Favored). If you have decent DCs you will want some offensive spells.
For example, you might work out a tactic around the first level Command spell. Perhaps you will stand behind several martial allies then Command a foe to "approach". On a failed Will save the foe will almost certainly die on its turn: the Move action to "approach" will draw multiple AoOs from your allies, ending with your own. Something like this, combined with good DCs, might make Command a good choice.
For higher levels stick to spells you will use constantly and you won't go wrong.
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Unless your party is utterly reckless and, thus, depends upon lots of in-combat healing, any sort of Oracle will be a terrific addition to the group. If this is their approach, probably not even a life oracle can save them for very long ;-)
Seems like a Waves oracle will be terrific in a seagoing campaign. Lots of reasons why.
Oracles can be very effective martial combatants, if you build them that way. For about 25% of build resources your PC can be a competent martial combatant.
Sadly, because of my Seeker build, I'm gonna have to rely on being a full time weeny caster. I'm looking at:
Race: HumanStr:11
Dex:14
Con:10
Int:12
Wis:12
Chr:18
Dex is for some help Disabling Device (and also for AC given that I'm gonna be on a ship and can't be burdened by heavy armor)
Int: The build needs a lot of skills, the human bonus +favored class +12 int gives me JUUUUUUUUST enough
Wis:Slight bonus to will and perception, IMO beats out 1 hp/lvl, though I could be easily persuaded to go the other way.
Charisma: Full time caster. I was actually thinking of dropping my Chr down to 17, which could give me enough points to bump up my Str and Con to 12, then pump my Charisma with my +1 point/4 level thing . . . I dunno.
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As others have noted, in terms of healing effectiveness:
#1 Oracle (Mystery of Life)
#2 Cleric (Healing Domain)
#3 Cleric (Any non-Healing Domain)
#4 Oracle (Any other Mystery)
While you CAN be decent at healing as, say, an oracle of waves there are a lot of healing spells in the game and having to learn them all can really hamper whatever fun concept you have for your oracle.
'waste' spell slots on things like lesser restoration
Its okay if you dont want to get restoration spells, but if you are the only healer in your group, you guys will see yourselves doing a LOT of resting.
Anyone have any advice on stats? Assuming a 20point buy, I'm torn between:
Str12
Dex14
Con12
Int12
Wis12
Chr17And
Str11
Dex14
Con10
Int12
Wis10
Chr18
I'd go with option 1. Level 4 comes relatively quickly. The difference between a 17 and an 18 is quite a few points. That extra STR and CON could mean the difference between life and death on a few different occasions. (STR will help your CMD, not just your to-hit. Extra HP from CON is never a bad thing in my book)
'waste' spell slots on things like lesser restorationIts okay if you dont want to get restoration spells, but if you are the only healer in your group, you guys will see yourselves doing a LOT of resting.
I think the OP meant that there was no need to use spell choices at level-up to obtain these essential spells, as the Life Mystery provides them by default.
I think you are overvaluing strength.
Str 7
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 19
That is probably what I would do on a 20 point build Waves Oracle.
I would also consider taking a level of Tattooed Sorcerer (Marid) at level 5 and taking levels 6-15 in Mystic Theurge. The delay in spells will hurt but the synergy between the Marid bloodline arcana and Freezing Spells is just awesome. If you have concerns about skill points you can take the dip and just go back to Oracle instead of Mystic Theurge, but I find Sorcerer spells can make you much better at using your skills than ranks can. If you are planning on using a bunch of revelations it may be worth one level for the bloodline arcana. I would go Crossblooded here and pick up another useful bloodline like Orc rather than Tattooed if you aren't going Mystic Theurge.
EDIT: I also was assuming going Half-Elf(Drow Descended) instead of Human to gain early access to MT and to have access to the spell Paragon Surge. If you are worried about not having enough skill points take a 12 dex and a 14 int. The spell Paragon Surge gets rid of your problem of having to devote spells known to things used outside of combat.
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I think you are overvaluing strength.
Str 7
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 19That is probably what I would do on a 20 point build Waves Oracle.
I would also consider taking a level of Tattooed Sorcerer (Marid) at level 5 and taking levels 6-15 in Mystic Theurge. The delay in spells will hurt but the synergy between the Marid bloodline arcana and Freezing Spells is just awesome. If you have concerns about skill points you can take the dip and just go back to Oracle instead of Mystic Theurge, but I find Sorcerer spells can make you much better at using your skills than ranks can. If you are planning on using a bunch of revelations it may be worth one level for the bloodline arcana. I would go Crossblooded here and pick up another useful bloodline like Orc rather than Tattooed if you aren't going Mystic Theurge.
EDIT: I also was assuming going Half-Elf(Drow Descended) instead of Human to gain early access to MT and to have access to the spell Paragon Surge. If you are worried about not having enough skill points take a 12 dex and a 14 int. The spell Paragon Surge gets rid of your problem of having to devote spells known to things used outside of combat.
Thanks for the advice, but I'm thinking full oracle. My character concept is basically a servant of Besmara who is basically completely unremarkable except for the fact that he was chosen by Besmara to promote followers by doing things like helping pirate crews and stopping tyrannical pirate captains who treat their crews as slaves.
Plus, I like both mysteries and the ability to eventually get permanent-tongues through my 'curse'
A healer/buffer doesn't need the super-high Charisma because most of their spells won't require saves. Also, I agree with TOZ, you don't need to be Life to be a good healer. The 17 Cha array will do you just fine, and save you points elsewhere.
All I play is Oracle's
Been
battle 16
nature 12
dark tapestry 7
life 5
and heavens 8
. They have been effective and great to play.... I don't recall ever being the only healer though?
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I've seen bards function as the party's combat healer. I'm sure your oracle will do fine.
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If you were willing to worship Irori instead, you could take the trait that lets you use WIS instead of DEX for one DEX-based skill. That would make both your Perception and Disable Device work that much better.
If you took the Eldritch Heritage line of feats for the Arcane bloodline arcana, you could pick up Sorcerer spells to add to your spells known at 9th level, including Aram Zey's Focus to improve your Trapfinding further.