Hey Ross - I didn't realize it before, but it looks like you are the main guy behind the Wayfinder Google Site? I emailed the webmaster email address earlier. Does that go to you? I was wondering if there is a reason your Google Site is still password access only? Mine is open to the public and I want to make sure I am not stepping on anyones toes or violating any rules I am not aware of.
I was. (And yes, I still check the webmaster account for it.) The site was private because Paizo originally asked folks not to put up the Beta materials, because they'd prefer folks to come, register, and download the PDF here. At this point, its password access only because I'm embarrassed by how little I ever got done. And I'm not going to be finishing it because now I get to work on the Official one.
I was. (And yes, I still check the webmaster account for it.) The site was private because Paizo originally asked folks not to put up the Beta materials, because they'd prefer folks to come, register, and download the PDF here. At this point, its password access only because I'm embarrassed by how little I ever got done. And I'm not going to be finishing it because now I get to work on the Official one.
pssst... between you and me.... <looks around> I don't think anyone else is listening...
Since no one else has seen the "Official" one yet (other than you and whomever else is working on it)... is there really any point in having a fan-built and maintained SRD? If, as soon as Final is released, an "Official" SRD is released alongside it that is 100x nicer and with full access to "real" content, as soon as (or before) it is released, will that make the concept of a fan-based SRD site basically pointless?
I'm suddenly hit by a sense of dread that there really is no point in my working on the d20pfsrd.com site if in 2 months no ones really going to use it.
:(
Chief Technical Officer
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I was. (And yes, I still check the webmaster account for it.) The site was private because Paizo originally asked folks not to put up the Beta materials, because they'd prefer folks to come, register, and download the PDF here. At this point, its password access only because I'm embarrassed by how little I ever got done. And I'm not going to be finishing it because now I get to work on the Official one.pssst... between you and me.... <looks around> I don't think anyone else is listening...
Since no one else has seen the "Official" one yet (other than you and whomever else is working on it)... is there really any point in having a fan-built and maintained SRD? If, as soon as Final is released, an "Official" SRD is released alongside it that is 100x nicer and with full access to "real" content, as soon as (or before) it is released, will that make the concept of a fan-based SRD site basically pointless?
I'm suddenly hit by a sense of dread that there really is no point in my working on the d20pfsrd.com site if in 2 months no ones really going to use it.
:(
Our SRD-like site will basically cover only content that's referenceable by folks using the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatibility License. That is to say, it will include only the Open Game Content from the products listed in Exhibit B of that license.
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I have a similar story. There was this spell for dragons, called Find Humanoid Familiar, if I remember correctly. I had a Green dragon NPC cast it when PC's were scouting around his lair - and the dwarf failed the saving throw. So, you have an great wyrm green dragon, who likes to shapechange into the green haired elf, and a chaotic neutral battlerager who dislikes elves, bathing, dragons and forests... Ah, those were the days. I miss ADnD.
Vic- thanks for your response. However, if I only post official "open content" and only content from the books listed in Exhibit B, that is, in effect, the same as what the "official" srd site will be, is that correct? Not that I want to drag this into a bunch of legalese, i'm just not sure what the benefit will be from a fan maintained srd site that contains ONLY open content ONLY from Pathfinder will be. Are you saying that there will be Pathfinder books with open content that will not eventually be added to Exhibit B?
Vic- thanks for your response. However, if I only post official "open content" and only content from the books listed in Exhibit B, that is, in effect, the same as what the "official" srd site will be, is that correct? Not that I want to drag this into a bunch of legalese, i'm just not sure what the benefit will be from a fan maintained srd site that contains ONLY open content ONLY from Pathfinder will be. Are you saying that there will be Pathfinder books with open content that will not eventually be added to Exhibit B?
If you only polst OGL content, yes.
But, there is a lot of other stuff that can be posted too that would make such a sight useful. Custom character sheets submitted by others (PDF's for example), house rules (which could become a resource for Paizo for an Unearthed Arcana book down the road), etc. You'd want to make any submissions require an open content license from the creator (for custom rules or creatures or races) of course.
It just all depends on what you want to do.
Are you saying that there will be Pathfinder books with open content that will not eventually be added to Exhibit B?
I think the official SRD will only contain "Core" rulebooks, things that are part of the Pathfinder RPG subscription. There are currently only 3 books listed in Exhibit B.
If you are using the community use license you can add OGL content from things on this list. It already lists several upcoming PFRPG products that you could include.
So I believe the following products will have OGL content not referenced by the official SRD:
Pathfinder Adventure Path #25: The Bastards of Erebus (Council of Thieves 1 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #26: The Sixfold Trial (Council of Thieves 2 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #27: What Lies in Dust (Council of Thieves 3 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #28: The Infernal Syndrome (Council of Thieves 4 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #29: Mother of Flies (Council of Thieves 5 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #30: The Twice-Damned Prince (Council of Thieves 6 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #31: Stolen Land (Kingmaker 1 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #32: Rivers Run Red (Kingmaker 2 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #33: The Varnhold Vanishing (Kingmaker 3 of 6) (PRPG)
Pathfinder Chronicles: Cities of Golarion (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Horrors Revisited (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Treasures Revisited (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Chronicles: Faction Guide (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Chronicles: Guide to the River Kingdoms (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Chronicles: NPC Guide (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Chronicles: Princes of Darkness—Book of the Damned, Volume 1 (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Companion: Adventurer's Armory (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Companion: Andoran, Spirit of Liberty (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Companion: Dwarves of Golarion (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Companion: Gnomes of Golarion (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Companion: Qadira, Gateway to the East (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Module: Carrion Hill (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Module: City of Golden Death (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Module: Crypt of the Everflame (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Module: Masks of the Living God (PFRPG)
Pathfinder Module: Realm of the Fellnight Queen (PFRPG)
Of course, you have to wait for them to be released. ;)
But, there is a lot of other stuff that can be posted too that would make such a sight useful. Custom character sheets submitted by others (PDF's for example), house rules (which could become a resource for Paizo for an Unearthed Arcana book down the road), etc. You'd want to make any submissions require an open content license from the creator (for custom rules or creatures or races) of course.
It just all depends on what you want to do.
Ok. I guess that's good then, because I did plan to allow posting of character sheets, articles from around the web, and custom Pathfinder-themed wallpapers etc. I already have the pages for such things and I have put a few token things on them for now. I'm hoping that if this site gets hit more that people will start contacting me about putting up other stuff.
Thanks for your comments!
I think the official SRD will only contain "Core" rulebooks, things that are part of the Pathfinder RPG subscription. There are currently only 3 books listed in Exhibit B.
Yeah, I read through the entire compatibility license page including the Exhibits sections and see that *for now* there are only three books listed in Exhibit B. However, I fully expect the Gamemasters Guide to be added to that once its released (maybe not, who knows).
If you are using the community use license you can add OGL content from things on this list. It already lists several upcoming PFRPG products that you could include.
...snip long list of products...
Yes, that's quite a substantial list. It looks like then that I'll have more than enough content to post to set this site apart from the "official" one. I've already started adding in some of the monsters from the 3.5 rules created Second Darkness adventure path, with the full disclaimer that the monsters were created with 3.5 rules and would need conversion to play in a pure Pathfinder game. I think it might be a nice challenge for people to do the conversions and then re-post them. If we converted all of the monsters that are open content from the various adventure paths that could be one massive list of extremely cool critters.
Thanks for your comments! Hopefully people find some usefulness in the site!
Strength is out because the incorporeal undead don't have a strength score.
You could rule that corporeal undead use strength, and incorporeal undead use charisma.
Rather than use a stat based mechanic it could have been tied into turn resistence - i.e. an undead with turn resistance of 2 would get +2 hit points per die - that way low charisma lich wizards would not be penalised.
Since no one else has seen the "Official" one yet (other than you and whomever else is working on it)... is there really any point in having a fan-built and maintained SRD? If, as soon as Final is released, an "Official" SRD is released alongside it that is 100x nicer and with full access to "real" content, as soon as (or before) it is released, will that make the concept of a fan-based SRD site basically pointless?
Not necessarily. Having two identical sites would be pointless, but having two sites to choose from is good, too. For instance, d20srd.org vs. Sovelior-Sage SRD site -- I know some people who prefer one (Unearthed Arcana content!) and some who prefer the other (literal hyperlinked version of the WotC SRD with no "bug fixes").
And I suspect that Paizo won't put every bit of OGL content on their web site (from modules, Chronicles books, what have you). I could be wrong, of course.
EDIT: Deinol made the same point I was trying to make.
And I suspect that Paizo won't put every bit of OGL content on their web site (from modules, Chronicles books, what have you). I could be wrong, of course.
Ok, points taken. Those of you that have signed on as contributors will have your hands full then! I already started putting up monsters from the Second Darkness Adventure Path. There are two of them linked on the Bestiary page but they are written in 3.5 terms so if people want to use them in Pathfinder some conversion is necessary. If someone wants to do the conversions I'd be happy to post them instead :)
For those not in the know, the site is at http://www.d20pfsrd.com
As always, I'm looking for help! (especially since the guys who've signed up so far seem to be slackers! j/k guys)
Great work Shisumo.
Great work Shisumo.
Seconded. :)
I´d love to see a similar thread when the real book comes out. ;)
Not sure if anyone considered it, but if you like the idea of zombies that just keep coming and just won't die (again), then what about applying a hit point "kicker" to the critters? 3.5 did that to constructs, I seem to remember (don't have my books handy here at work) and it made them more formidable and harder to take down, despite having no CON scores.
I would have suggested that for undead but since we're waaaay past the playtest stage, it's probably a little too late for anything official. But that doesn't mean you couldn't add a house rule to that effect. Not sure of the actual numbers, but I think the constructs had a bonus based on size, right? So Medium undead get another 10 or 15 hit points, maybe, Large get another 20 or 30, etc. Might give more durability to those mindless shock troop undead, for those who like that kind of a challenge. They tend to be easy to hit, but can take hit after hit after hit before they finally crumble to bits...
Not sure if anyone considered it, but if you like the idea of zombies that just keep coming and just won't die (again)...
You could even, as the DM, say something like "Zombies only die if someone successfully confirms a critical against them or deals 3x their total hit points in one round. Otherwise, they just keep on coming."
Might be pretty strong but I guarantee your player's will soil themselves the next time they have to face zombies, instead of just going "Oh great, a bunch of things that are easy to kill that will never hurt me. This will take some time and be very little fun. Joy."
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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You could even, as the DM, say something like "Zombies only die if someone successfully confirms a critical against them or deals 3x their total hit points in one round. Otherwise, they just keep on coming."
Well, give them regeneration, so that they're lying still for a few rounds before getting up again.
So you kill a bunch of zombies, open up the ol' wineskins of healing, and catch your breath. And then somebody thinks she saw one of the zombies twitch....
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Dunno, Damage resistance 5/slashing always scared my players.
player prone to cheating (badly): Hah! I hit the elf, natural 20 with the bow! *rolls dice* 6,4,5. 15 points of damage!*
Me as the DM (knowing they're immune to crits being undead, albiet fresh, zombies) "Your arrow flies straight, sinking into its heart. The elf looks down, and silently pulls the shaft from its flesh, then returns fire."
*Players charge into meele, with quarterstaff, shortsword and rapier.*
So you kill a bunch of zombies, open up the ol' wineskins of healing, and catch your breath. And then somebody thinks she saw one of the zombies twitch....
While that's good in theory, in the majority of cases I have seen, regeneration and fast healing do very little in combat, especially very little in the way of actually making an impression on the player's. I mean, with trolls and other regen creatures they just know they have (effectively) more hit points. Once dropped, some pc always hits them with flames anyway. Making it require something like a confirmed critical *really* makes them frightening. While we're at it though, there really needs to be some sort of "mob attack" mechanic, ie, where if you are surrounded by zombies, just because you have a crazy AC you are basically still screwed. That would really help mobs of small creatures attacking a high ac paladin or fighter too. Right now mobs really aren't all that scary. Give them some sort of cumulative +1 attack bonus "per attacker adjacent to the target" or, like a swarm, its just auto damage (even if just a small amount). Seems like if the big tough paladin lets himself get surrounded by 8 kobolds and he doesn't cleave them all down, he should be a little concerned.
Just sayin.
PC surrounded by zombies clawing him and crying out "more brainsssss" dealing automatic 1d8 every round and you can't kill them unless you hit them with a crit or something would (I think) scare the bajeezus out of the players.
Dunno, Damage resistance 5/slashing always scared my players.
In my experience, there is always a tank-type fighter in the group who is dealing substantially more than the creatures DR anyway so it just means that it takes longer to drop the monster. The monster isn't really all that more interesting, or special, it just basically takes longer to drop. <yawn>
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So you kill a bunch of zombies, open up the ol' wineskins of healing, and catch your breath. And then somebody thinks she saw one of the zombies twitch....While that's good in theory, in the majority of cases I have seen, regeneration and fast healing do very little in combat, especially very little in the way of actually making an impression on the player's. I mean, with trolls and other regen creatures they just know they have (effectively) more hit points. Once dropped, some pc always hits them with flames anyway. Making it require something like a confirmed critical *really* makes them frightening. While we're at it though, there really needs to be some sort of "mob attack" mechanic, ie, where if you are surrounded by zombies, just because you have a crazy AC you are basically still screwed. That would really help mobs of small creatures attacking a high ac paladin or fighter too. Right now mobs really aren't all that scary. Give them some sort of cumulative +1 attack bonus "per attacker adjacent to the target" or, like a swarm, its just auto damage (even if just a small amount). Seems like if the big tough paladin lets himself get surrounded by 8 kobolds and he doesn't cleave them all down, he should be a little concerned.
Just sayin.
PC surrounded by zombies clawing him and crying out "more brainsssss" dealing automatic 1d8 every round and you can't kill them unless you hit them with a crit or something would (I think) scare the bajeezus out of the players.
Just use aid another, then the other only need to hit 10...
FYI - fast healing for undead, not regeneration. Regeneration turns all damage into non-lethal, which undead are immune to.
FYI - fast healing for undead, not regeneration. Regeneration turns all damage into non-lethal, which undead are immune to.
Would make for an exceptionally dangerous undead though...
Or as we tarrasques like to say, very chewy. Maybe like overripe squeaky cheese...
Many of the classic immunities for undead stem from the lack of a Con score. Adding a Con score changes that mechanic and requires revisiting the lack of a Con score in animated objects for unification of the rules.
Most of the undead immunities overlap with not having a con score. If you notice, even intelligent undead retain the bonuses for not having an Int score (i.e. immunity to all mind-affecting effects). Also, clearly type has absolutely nothing to do with null ability scores (let's ignore warforged some more =D).
Also, haven't looked through the new bestiary yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if the undead resurrection rules contradiction is still there. The resurrection spell description (in both PF and 3.5) explicitly states that it cannot be used on undead creatures. The undead type (in 3.5, dunno about PF yet) explicitly states that resurrection can directly affect them. It doesn't usually come up thanks to the lovely 100-round casting time on resurrection, but wish and miracle with their lovely standard action casting times are OHKO (one-hit knock-out) against any undead pending overcoming spell resistance (creatures like nightshades or even atropals don't have a living form before they became undead, and even things like demiliches which did have living forms before becoming undead are suddenly a LOT squishier and butcherable).
Also, rules explicitly say undead can't have regneration. sorry folks, you're cheating to get an even more cheat-tastic monster
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It has to do with their current state. Raise dead doesn't work, Res. works if they were undead, but are not currently, (they are destroyed), while True Res works.
Additionally, regeneration does not function if you don't have a Con score. Undead do not benefit from Reg at all, so it would be fast healing. DR is pretty pointless all in all. 3.0 DR was good, ranging from 10 - 30 on average. 3.5 went down to usually 5, uncommonly 10, and max 15, for the most part, which is just not all that fun or functional.
It has to do with their current state. Raise dead doesn't work, Res. works if they were undead, but are not currently, (they are destroyed), while True Res works.
Additionally, regeneration does not function if you don't have a Con score. Undead do not benefit from Reg at all, so it would be fast healing. DR is pretty pointless all in all. 3.0 DR was good, ranging from 10 - 30 on average. 3.5 went down to usually 5, uncommonly 10, and max 15, for the most part, which is just not all that fun or functional.
It's not DR itself that is broken, it's DR/Magic that's busted. I mean honestly, it's an utterly useless power for a dragon to have. An yone fighting a dragon will be having magic weapons. Indeed, anyone 6th or higher probably has at least a +1. I've hated DR/Magic ever since it came out in 3.5. It's the most useless ability ever.
DR/Acid or DR/Lawful or DR/Slashing is way way more effective than DR/Magic (which used to be the most effective you can have, and it's still on all the big monsters). DR/Slashing still affects a +5 Holy Mace, whereas DR/Magic doesn't work against even a +1 Club.
It has to do with their current state. Raise dead doesn't work, Res. works if they were undead, but are not currently, (they are destroyed), while True Res works.
Additionally, regeneration does not function if you don't have a Con score. Undead do not benefit from Reg at all, so it would be fast healing. DR is pretty pointless all in all. 3.0 DR was good, ranging from 10 - 30 on average. 3.5 went down to usually 5, uncommonly 10, and max 15, for the most part, which is just not all that fun or functional.
It's not DR itself that is broken, it's DR/Magic that's busted. I mean honestly, it's an utterly useless power for a dragon to have. An yone fighting a dragon will be having magic weapons. Indeed, anyone 6th or higher probably has at least a +1. I've hated DR/Magic ever since it came out in 3.5. It's the most useless ability ever.
DR/Acid or DR/Lawful or DR/Slashing is way way more effective than DR/Magic (which used to be the most effective you can have, and it's still on all the big monsters). DR/Slashing still affects a +5 Holy Mace, whereas DR/Magic doesn't work against even a +1 Club.
I completely agree with mdt here. DR/Magic needs to regain some of what it lost from 3.0 and come with an indicator of how much magic is needed to overcome it. The other DRs don't really need this, but DR/Magic surely does.
Of course, I have a houserule for this, too, but it's very loosey-goosey and nothing is hard-coded into a solid mechanic.
All monsters from the Bonus Bestiary are now online here.
Bookmarked.
It has to do with their current state. Raise dead doesn't work, Res. works if they were undead, but are not currently, (they are destroyed), while True Res works.
Additionally, regeneration does not function if you don't have a Con score. Undead do not benefit from Reg at all, so it would be fast healing. DR is pretty pointless all in all. 3.0 DR was good, ranging from 10 - 30 on average. 3.5 went down to usually 5, uncommonly 10, and max 15, for the most part, which is just not all that fun or functional.
It's not DR itself that is broken, it's DR/Magic that's busted. I mean honestly, it's an utterly useless power for a dragon to have. An yone fighting a dragon will be having magic weapons. Indeed, anyone 6th or higher probably has at least a +1. I've hated DR/Magic ever since it came out in 3.5. It's the most useless ability ever.
DR/Acid or DR/Lawful or DR/Slashing is way way more effective than DR/Magic (which used to be the most effective you can have, and it's still on all the big monsters). DR/Slashing still affects a +5 Holy Mace, whereas DR/Magic doesn't work against even a +1 Club.
I completely agree with mdt here. DR/Magic needs to regain some of what it lost from 3.0 and come with an indicator of how much magic is needed to overcome it. The other DRs don't really need this, but DR/Magic surely does.
Of course, I have a houserule for this, too, but it's very loosey-goosey and nothing is hard-coded into a solid mechanic.
Oh wow, we completely agree on something. :)
I'm sure a pocket universe somewhere imploded. :)
Oh wow, we completely agree on something. :)
I'm sure a pocket universe somewhere imploded. :)
Don't get too used to it...
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A fun way to throw the group off with monsters is to just ignore the hit points and let them sweat it out until finally someone in frustration screams "Why won't they die!!!!!" Then start having the things die about two rounds later.
I did that one time with a group, averaging level 10, who came across a small band of kobalds. Needless to say they never took any monsters for granted as easy kills after that encounter. :-)
A fun way to throw the group off with monsters is to just ignore the hit points and let them sweat it out until finally someone in frustration screams "Why won't they die!!!!!" Then start having the things die about two rounds later.
I did that one time with a group, averaging level 10, who came across a small band of kobalds. Needless to say they never took any monsters for granted as easy kills after that encounter. :-)
Better than my DM in one game. After we took down his boss monstrous spider in 1.5 rounds at level 4 (our fighter critted on both of his attacks dual-wielding bastard swords) he decided that the best way to have a boss encounter that lasted for four or five rounds was to give the thing enough hp to survive for 5 rounds if every member of the party critted on every attack. Thus we fought the (no joke) 600 hp L6 orc captain. He also had DR 5/fire (magic weapons weren't allowed...we were only one of the most elite strike forces in this military organization, we weren't worthy of getting any sort of magic gear...) and reduced all elemental magic damage by 5 (but we weren't given any indication that our efforts were being blunted so that we might try something different). Did I mention we were on a wooden ship and he expected us to use FIRE ATTACKS!? Amazingly after about 10 rounds, we had taken him down by a whopping 250 hp (even after DR and magic resistance). And then we finally got a deus ex machina that dealt 320 damage to him and took off his DR (the ship spontaneously combusted). Yeah, we were all pissed at him. Especially since all it took to heal up was a CSW on the tank and one or two CLW on random others.
DR/Magic needs to regain some of what it lost from 3.0 and come with an indicator of how much magic is needed to overcome it. The other DRs don't really need this, but DR/Magic surely does.Oh wow, we completely agree on something. :) I'm sure a pocket universe somewhere imploded. :)
Yeah, I'm in the same boat! Currently, I've just changed the nomenclature to DR "10/+1," as opposed to, say "DR 10/+2 or silver," or "DR 10/+3 or cold iron" or whatever. Sometimes for fiendish monsters, etc. I use the 3.0 table for "plusses" and maybe add an "or" material appropriate to the plane of origin.
