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I myself will keep to the Beta and my house rules... there is half what I need and what made me fall in love with Pathfinder... ok... somethings need to be fixed...
unfortunately Final version overrides what I find new, intriguing and interesting about the Beta... and I am not only talking about the Cleric, at least the Barbarian is in the same case for me, still not sure how it would work for the Paladin or the Bard... but well this is me... my group had disliked the changes to magic, so we still use 3.0 magic in general... more akin to fantasy...
as Dogbert says... "If I cannot recreate with the ruleset... lets say... 'Sleeping Beuty' (polymorph: remember the enormous dragon?) or 'Dark Crystal' its not a High Fantasy game for me"
so while I will check it when the PDF is on sale... I doubt I will be using the ruleset unless I join any actual PFS group...
besides that... as Sutter said (and I very MUCH agree with almost ALL what he said, (yeah we don't hate Jason, he just did his work) I have been enjoying very much Golarion in general, the flavor, quality and creativity Paizo drips in its world setting is without match and until I broke I would try to keep getting at least the APs, Chronicles and Companion Line
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In order to keep it interesting though (because I've seen this type of thread go south quite quickly), I must ask you: You've told us how you feel, but what do you hope to get out of Pathfinder now? Why comment at this time?What do I expect to get out of Pathfinder?
The RPG? Nothing anymore.
The Brand? Kick ass APs and products.Why comment at this time? I saw how posting dislike or disappointment in another thread was being attacked, and felt a more in depth thread was needed. Also, as I posted, while you were probably posting:
"Like I said at the start, I posted it primarily for Paizo to take note of. It seems I am not alone in my disappointment.
And I'm not saying anything should be done. But Paizo has the right to take the information and do with it what they will."
Dude I learned a LONG time, keep your disappointments to yourself. Sooner or later someone will flame you like mad for expressing your opinion. Well... umm... okay, maybe you don't don't mind being flamed with immunity to fire and all, maybe someone get a fire extinguisher on you.
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I myself will keep to the Beta and my house rules... there is half what I need and what made me fall in love with Pathfinder... ok... somethings need to be fixed...
unfortunately Final version overrides what I find new, intriguing and interesting about the Beta... and I am not only talking about the Cleric, at least the Barbarian is in the same case for me, still not sure how it would work for the Paladin or the Bard... but well this is me... my group had disliked the changes to magic, so we still use 3.0 magic in general... more akin to fantasy...
as Dogbert says... "If I cannot recreate with the ruleset... lets say... 'Sleeping Beuty' (polymorph: remember the enormous dragon?) or 'Dark Crystal' its not a High Fantasy game for me"
so while I will check it when the PDF is on sale... I doubt I will be using the ruleset unless I join any actual PFS group...
besides that... as Sutter said (and I very MUCH agree with almost ALL what he said, (yeah we don't hate Jason, he just did his work) I have been enjoying very much Golarion in general, the flavor, quality and creativity Paizo drips in its world setting is without match and until I broke I would try to keep getting at least the APs, Chronicles and Companion Line
as Dogbert says... "If I cannot recreate with the ruleset... lets say... 'Sleeping Beuty' (polymorph: remember the enormous dragon?) or 'Dark Crystal' its not a High Fantasy game for me"
Actually, what I said is: As a matter of -principles-, I won't play a so-called fantasy game with which I can't narrate The Last Unicorn.
@Disenchanter: Krome is right, stating your reasons why you don't like the game here is the same as going to a football game and sitting at the -wrong- side of the stadium, you'll get nothing but grief. Long ago I decided to refrain from all threads discussing rules after coming to terms with the fact that I'm not the demographic Paizo aims for. The game's direction was set from day 1 and, while it was an open playtest, the only opinions meant to be taken into account are those of the game's target demographic (which is only -logical-, trying to please everyone is a recipe for failure), complaining about things that make up the game's -basic premise- is a fool's errand.
I understand your stance though, like Montalve, I find no purpose in buying a book if I'm going to houserule and substitute -everything-, and that's the reason I cancelled my preorder months ago.
Now, what do I expect to get out of Pathfinder?
Chronicles and Companion books, I'm totally in love with Golarion, and while it was written as a faux high-magic setting meant to revel in plot devices, that's easily remedied by using the books me and my gaming table like... poof, plot devices gone with the wind, and all's left is a gaming world I like.
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I can tell ya what I hope to get out of Pathfinder...
LOTS
A game mechanics system that streamlines some of the more complex parts of the game to make the mechanics of storytelling easier.
A game world that is the most innovative I have seen in a long time, full of flavor and character.
Ultimately the game mechanics are the least of my concerns. If they don't work for the story being told, then change them. No one mechanics system can possibly work for EVERY story.
The ONLY product I have found of no use what so ever is the Critical Hit and Fumble decks. Not that they are not well done, but the font is so small, and there is so much empty space, that I CAN'T READ THEM! If I could READ THEM! I'd be happy to use them! *HINT HINT*
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but the font is so small, and there is so much empty space, that I CAN'T READ THEM! If I could READ THEM! I'd be happy to use them! *HINT HINT*
Don't worry we understand completely. You want us to kidnap you take you away to a secret laboratory and perform terrifying, inhumane and unethical experiments on you in order to create a form of super eye to aid in reading small text.
but the font is so small, and there is so much empty space, that I CAN'T READ THEM! If I could READ THEM! I'd be happy to use them! *HINT HINT*Don't worry we understand completely. You want us to kidnap you take you away to a secret laboratory and perform terrifying, inhumane and unethical experiments on you in order to create a form of super eye to aid in reading small text.
I thought he ment eather
1. Cut them out and proform arcane arts to regrow him better ones2. Cut them out and profrom necromantic arts and give him unholy corpse eyes
3. Cut them out and pull a six million doller man thing...but as we are brought we'll do what we can for 1. 23
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I thought he ment eather
1. Cut them out and proform arcane arts to regrow him better ones
2. Cut them out and profrom necromantic arts and give him unholy corpse eyes
3. Cut them out and pull a six million doller man thing...but as we are brought we'll do what we can for 1. 23
Excellent prep for surgery we shall be giving him Ard'wood bionic eyes
Excellent, for our budget we have a bag of cheetos, a hammer and a 15 mm socket
And I can understand your need to express your displeasure even if it won't accomplish anything - that's what the internet is for! :)nuh!
Internet is for seeing pr0n! we all do bad use of the interwebs!!!
You're right!
It makes so much sense now! :D
That is the problem with the PathfinderRPG (and Golarion)!
... Not enough "Rule 34"! :PPPPP
Because YOU demanded it!
This fall, Mojo Studios dares to look in the -blank pages- between adventures...
----Pathfinder Untold Chronicles----
See Seoni as you've -never- seen her before! Delve into what cheers Merisiel up! Discover Kyra's secret sunshine! And find out the mistery behind the -true- captions in the bath house portrait.
Pathfinder Untold Chronicles, this fall... because Mojo cares!
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Because YOU demanded it!
This fall, Mojo Studios dares to look in the -blank pages- between adventures...
----Pathfinder Untold Chronicles----
See Seoni as you've -never- seen her before! Delve into what cheers Merisiel up! Discover Kyra's secret sunshine! And find out the mistery behind the -true- captions in the bath house portrait.
Pathfinder Untold Chronicles, this fall... because Mojo cares!
aaahhhhhh nuts. Ok, put me down as a subscriber. You guys SOOOO suck!
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Because YOU demanded it!
This fall, Mojo Studios dares to look in the -blank pages- between adventures...
----Pathfinder Untold Chronicles----
See Seoni as you've -never- seen her before! Delve into what cheers Merisiel up! Discover Kyra's secret sunshine! And find out the mistery behind the -true- captions in the bath house portrait.
Pathfinder Untold Chronicles, this fall... because Mojo cares!
Hey Mojo, some guy named Longshot is waiting for you in the lobby, and it looks like he brought some friends.
I remember finding out what the plans were for initiative, and tracking down Jonathan Tweet and very vociferously telling him that his plans for initiative were going to doom 3rd edition and that it was the most stupid rule ever and that nobody would play it and that I would be houseruling that in my campaign and... <pant, pant, pant> And you know what, Jonathan was right and the new initiative was much better than what I played in my 1st edition campaigns. But it took me actually playing it to realize that he knew better than I did.
-Lisa
LOL, I still prefer old-school initiatives with weapons speeds and spell casting times.
In fact, I made one little tweak to pre-3.0 initiative: I took away the melee round and made initiatives start at zero and go up to infinity - or until the battle ended.
If you had a -3 initiative modifier for a good DEX (negative was good in that edition) and a weapon that had a +6 (like a battle axe, IIRC), then I would roll a d10 (I don't recall if the RAW used a d10 or not), subtract your DEX (can't go below 0, so in this example rolling a 1, 2, 3, or 4 means you subtract that -3 and get a 1), then add your weapon speed of +6 and you go on 7.
Then next round do it again. Maybe you roll an 8, so 8 - 3 + 6 is 11, and 11 + your previous initiative of 7 means you go on 18.
Then maybe you cast a spell with a speed of 5, and you roll a 7, so 7 - 3 + 5 is 9, and 9 + 18 means your spell begins on 22 and goes off on 27, and if anyone can hit you between those numbers (maybe an enemy has an initiative of 25) then he can disrupt your casting.
Sounds painful, but really, since we were used to almost all of that anyway, the two little tweaks, (counting up instead of down, and adding to last round instead of beginning a new round at zero) were easy to houserule in.
I totally loved that system.
But now I play 3.x and use their system, since restoring weapon speeds and spell casting times (in all the many many splatbooks too) is too much of a hassle.
But I know which system I like the most, even today, and it's not the d20 system that came into existence with 3.0.
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Hey Mojo, some guy named Longshot is waiting for you in the lobby, and it looks like he brought some friends.Because YOU demanded it!
This fall, Mojo Studios dares to look in the -blank pages- between adventures...
----Pathfinder Untold Chronicles----
See Seoni as you've -never- seen her before! Delve into what cheers Merisiel up! Discover Kyra's secret sunshine! And find out the mistery behind the -true- captions in the bath house portrait.
Pathfinder Untold Chronicles, this fall... because Mojo cares!
wow, from "what i don't like" to "internet pron" to "old-school-marvel-comics"
man, i love this site, such eclectic and wondrous things i see.
-t
Hey Mojo, some guy named Longshot is waiting for you in the lobby, and it looks like he brought some friends.
For the last time, someone tell that blonde there are no plans for an Acts of Iomedae III, I don't care how much he wants another go at her.
I can always use someone with real talent Mojo...just saying
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Hey Mojo, some guy named Longshot is waiting for you in the lobby, and it looks like he brought some friends.For the last time, someone tell that blonde there are no plans for an Acts of Iomedae III, I don't care how much he wants another go at her.
Yeah but he heard Iomedae wanted to work with him again.
Yeah but he heard Iomedae wanted to work with him again.
He also heard I was giving him a better contract, he hears what he wants to hear, except it never happens.
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Eh, when you publish your first role playing core rule book call us back.If that was to me, what makes you think I haven't?
He! if you did, you certainly didnt have a Beta Playtest like this; or you'd know the rule: You can't please everyone on everything.
and the secondary rule: Sometimes things need to be changed for the greater good of the majority.
My opinion- (which is as valid as yours or anyones elses) Ive played every edition of D&D (except 4th...) and probably 90% of the RPG's out there.
In all cases I gravitate back to the system I like the best. For me this is Pathfinder, For others this will be 4e, and others like maybe yourself- 3.5....There are things I like in each and things I dont like and think could have been better. and as been pointed out by many others- If I like the majority of the system, I just houserule what I dont. No single system is going to have 100% made exactly how I want it. It isnt possible, that doesnt mean I dont enjoy playing it though.
My point- I dont understand the your need to create this thread to state something that, as you yourself said, won't have any effect. Hubris? Ego? I don't get it. I hope you get out this thread what you felt you needed...I have my doubts though.
I hope you enjoy whatever game style you settle on. Enjoy!
Dread
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Ive played every edition of D&D (except 4th...) and probably 90% of the RPG's out there.
Wow! When do you get time to do anything else! I have loads of games I have bought and read but never found time to play, and that is just a drop in the ocean compared to all the RPGs out there. I salute you sir! :)
My point- I dont understand the your need to create this thread to state something that, as you yourself said, won't have any effect. Hubris? Ego? I don't get it.
It can be just a means to vent - to tell someone who might understand what the hell you are going on about, and maybe let Paizo know something they might just take into account in future decisions.
I know I have vented quite a bit about various other things on the internet - it is a very good medium for venting as you feel you are sharing even if no one actually reads your post :)
Eh, when you publish your first role playing core rule book call us back.If that was to me, what makes you think I haven't?He! if you did, you certainly didnt have a Beta Playtest like this; or you'd know the rule: You can't please everyone on everything.
and the secondary rule: Sometimes things need to be changed for the greater good of the majority.
My opinion- (which is as valid as yours or anyones elses) Ive played every edition of D&D (except 4th...) and probably 90% of the RPG's out there.
In all cases I gravitate back to the system I like the best. For me this is Pathfinder, For others this will be 4e, and others like maybe yourself- 3.5....There are things I like in each and things I dont like and think could have been better. and as been pointed out by many others- If I like the majority of the system, I just houserule what I dont. No single system is going to have 100% made exactly how I want it. It isnt possible, that doesnt mean I dont enjoy playing it though.
My point- I dont understand the your need to create this thread to state something that, as you yourself said, won't have any effect. Hubris? Ego? I don't get it. I hope you get out this thread what you felt you needed...I have my doubts though.
I hope you enjoy whatever game style you settle on. Enjoy!
Dread
Hmmm, if my understanding is correct, he does understand that you can't please everyone all the time. He just happens to be one of those people that couldn't be pleased. Hell, I disliked almost everything about the changes made to the cleric but what the hell, can't please everyone all the time especially my addled brain. Kae Yoss will tell you, I'm batty, I like it when my favorite class gets the shaft :P
He also seemed to state, in no uncertain terms, just why he posted this thread. It may not have been a good reason but it was a reason (and a fairly direct one) none the less. Hubris, Ego, nah, just someone airing their concerns. The internet is a good place for ranting.
Now if he were to be justly criticized it would be if he had posted this opinion without expecting people to be critical of it. There are some people on these boards who are every bit the voracious fans of decisions made with the PRPG that 4e and 3.5 extremists were during the edition wars. Thankfully they don't seem nearly so numerous and tend to get shot down themselves (unless, heaven forbid, you say something that's positive in relation to 4e or wotc outside of their embassy in the 4e section of the boards... not sure if that statement needs a smiley as I'm not sure how I feel about it).
Anyway, I need to stop typing, it's 5:00am, suns about to come out and I'm tired as it is.
Dude I learned a LONG time, keep your disappointments to yourself. Sooner or later someone will flame you like mad for expressing your opinion. Well... umm... okay, maybe you don't don't mind being flamed with immunity to fire and all, maybe someone get a fire extinguisher on you.
I've got no problem with it, really... I expect we'll see a whole drove of purists writing goodbye letters to PRPG. Some of them will be well reasoned critiques, some will be irrational screed, and everything in between.
People are entitled to their opinion, and if it becomes a terrible thread it's as much due to the responses as the original post (well sometimes)
My point- I dont understand the your need to create this thread to state something that, as you yourself said, won't have any effect. Hubris? Ego? I don't get it.
*rolleyes* Somebody new to the internet and the concept of "messageboards".
Is this one of those creepy "don't post if you criticize! You will only love!" posts? Weird.
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My point- I dont understand the your need to create this thread to state something that, as you yourself said, won't have any effect. Hubris? Ego? I don't get it.*rolleyes* Somebody new to the internet and the concept of "messageboards".
Is this one of those creepy "don't post if you criticize! You will only love!" posts? Weird.
apparently
just ignore it :Pwe, in our hubris, did :P
By the way, this thread is nothing compared to the complaining about 6th edition Hero on the Hero Games forums. Now there's some top-quality complaining!:
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I actually got the Beta after the test period ended so I could not add my feedback then, but so far my group has incorporated the new rules with no gripes at all because they wanted to continue full bore into the story. Even my power gamers and rules lawyers were silent on their rules changes because the AP (in this case Crimson Throne) was so interesting. They just wanted to play. It was great to see my twenty somethings acting like we were 13 again and just found the game.
If Paizo continues to make high quality adventure path products, I will shell out for the new rules, continue to buy their adventure path products, their bad ass critical hit and fumble cards (if your group isn't using these card decks, your are missing out on a lot of fun) and more. Not just a fanboy over here, I'm a DM with a group that is having a blast. They keep coming back to the table hungry for the game, so I must be doing something right. And the new stuff is just helping out.
Thanks Paizo, and hey! If I have to throw out 100% of the final edition changes, I'm buying the book because I bet it will be beautiful inside. Wayne Reynolds art and Robert Lazzeretti maps are some of my favorite things to look at.
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I actually got the Beta after the test period ended so I could not add my feedback then, but so far my group has incorporated the new rules with no gripes at all because they wanted to continue full bore into the story. Even my power gamers and rules lawyers were silent on their rules changes because the AP (in this case Crimson Throne) was so interesting. They just wanted to play. It was great to see my twenty somethings acting like we were 13 again and just found the game.
ohh I agree I loved both the Beta and the APs
my complains coem from the things they worked on the beta and took away for the final version
still they still do wonderful work
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Dude I learned a LONG time, keep your disappointments to yourself. Sooner or later someone will flame you like mad for expressing your opinion. Well... umm... okay, maybe you don't don't mind being flamed with immunity to fire and all, maybe someone get a fire extinguisher on you.I've got no problem with it, really... I expect we'll see a whole drove of purists writing goodbye letters to PRPG. Some of them will be well reasoned critiques, some will be irrational screed, and everything in between.
People are entitled to their opinion, and if it becomes a terrible thread it's as much due to the responses as the original post (well sometimes)
Remember the tons of I'm leaving threads that came out when people got their first look at Beta? I mean there was a push to give them their own section on the board because of the sheer volume of them. So far, I've only seen this one so I think we're doing good. However, the closer to August we get, the more of a ground swell I expect to see.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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By the way, this thread is nothing compared to the complaining about 6th edition Hero on the Hero Games forums. Now there's some top-quality complaining!:
<<THREADJACK>>
I haven't played Hero in years, and was looking to pick up a copy of the new rules at Origins so I could relive my old Champions campaign (WAY back in Hero 1E).
Hogarth, do you know when the 6E rulebook will be released?
<</THREADJACK>>
No, I haven't played Champions/Hero in 15 years. I just stumbled across that thread from another message board.
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All in all I'm pretty excited and eager for August.
There are things I'm sure that have been taken out of the final that I liked in the Beta. There are things that have been changed that I'd rather have the same as the old 3.5 rules. There are changes I would have preferred that won't be used in the final version.
But that's the joy of tabletop gaming. You get a rules system - and from there go on to mold and shape it to your own needs.
I loved the open Beta, though I'm sure it was stressful and frustrating as much as it was eye opening and exciting for Paizo staff - it introduced new ideas to me, helped me solidify some of my own theories and opinions on rules and options, and helped me examine the game from a critical structural perspective that I think will make me a better player and DM.
I want to say that I'm glad Paizo is here, and I think it says a lot for their quality that even those that aren't going to buy the final Pathfinder RPG product are still hanging out here for great stories, adventures, worlds and products.
:)
Dude I learned a LONG time, keep your disappointments to yourself. Sooner or later someone will flame you like mad for expressing your opinion. Well... umm... okay, maybe you don't don't mind being flamed with immunity to fire and all, maybe someone get a fire extinguisher on you.
Of course. I should just suck it up, pack it deep inside, and let it fester and corrupt.
Besides, if everyone kept their disappointments to themselves, no one would ever want something better than what they already have.
And keeping disappointments to yourself helps relationships of all stripes grow and become stronger and more healthy all the time.
Yes, I can see why people should fear what others think of them for voicing their opinions. If more did so, it would help us grow as a species.[/sarcasm]
Pathfinder Untold Chronicles
P.U.C.? That has a marketing angle in it...
He! if you did, you certainly didnt have a Beta Playtest like this; or you'd know the rule: You can't please everyone on everything.
and the secondary rule: Sometimes things need to be changed for the greater good of the majority.
My opinion- (which is as valid as yours or anyones elses) Ive played every edition of D&D (except 4th...) and probably 90% of the RPG's out there.
In all cases I gravitate back to the system I like the best. For me this is Pathfinder, For others this will be 4e, and others like maybe yourself- 3.5....There are things I like in each and things I dont like and think could have been better. and as been pointed out by many others- If I like the majority of the system, I just houserule what I dont. No single system is going to have 100% made exactly how I want it. It isnt possible, that doesnt mean I dont enjoy playing it though.
My point- I dont understand the your need to create this thread to state something that, as you yourself said, won't have any effect. Hubris? Ego? I don't get it. I hope you get out this thread what you felt you needed...I have my doubts though.
I hope you enjoy whatever game style you settle on. Enjoy!
Dread
Hmmm, if my understanding is correct, he does understand that you can't please everyone all the time. He just happens to be one of those people that couldn't be pleased. Hell, I disliked almost everything about the changes made to the cleric but what the hell, can't please everyone all the time especially my addled brain. Kae Yoss will tell you, I'm batty, I like it when my favorite class gets the shaft :P
He also seemed to state, in no uncertain terms, just why he posted this thread. It may not have been a good reason but it was a reason (and a fairly direct one) none the less. Hubris, Ego, nah, just someone airing their concerns. The internet is a good place for ranting.
I agree with most everything except the ranting part. This isn't a rant. Just a statement of opinion with as little rabid fanboi barking as possible, since nothing I stated should have been taken as a challenge to the general state of affairs.
By the way, this thread is nothing compared to the complaining about 6th edition Hero on the Hero Games forums. Now there's some top-quality complaining!:
I take it that you meant this post as humor, but this wasn't meant as a complaint thread. I can see that simply talking against the state of the game might be taken as a complaint in it's simplist definition... But that wasn't the intention.
Remember the tons of I'm leaving threads that came out when people got their first look at Beta? I mean there was a push to give them their own section on the board because of the sheer volume of them. So far, I've only seen this one so I think we're doing good. However, the closer to August we get, the more of a ground swell I expect to see.
Dude I learned a LONG time, keep your disappointments to yourself. Sooner or later someone will flame you like mad for expressing your opinion. Well... umm... okay, maybe you don't don't mind being flamed with immunity to fire and all, maybe someone get a fire extinguisher on you.I've got no problem with it, really... I expect we'll see a whole drove of purists writing goodbye letters to PRPG. Some of them will be well reasoned critiques, some will be irrational screed, and everything in between.
People are entitled to their opinion, and if it becomes a terrible thread it's as much due to the responses as the original post (well sometimes)
You aren't really comparing this thread to an "I'm leaving" thread are you?
Interesting thread so far. I would even encourage folks voicing their opinion on the game - you know, this is part of what brought 3e into being: the designers listened to the people playing the game and what they liked and disliked about it. Now, we have the somewhat strange situation that Disenchanter voiced his opinion before the game is even available in full, but if you see something in a movie preview that sucks in your opinion, you won´t watch this movie either. (Highlander 2 to 4, anybody? I haven´t seem them to this day, and unless I get forced, I won´t, as I think the concept alone is big suckage. And I didn´t need a 60-year-old terminator with digitally removed wrinkles, either.)
Of course, it won´t change a single iota in the rules now, but still, voicing an opinion about the rules is still something I think is important for the designers. Who knows, in a few years we might see PFRPG 2, and it turns out that the opinions voiced now got more people supporting them over the years, leading to a change in the rules then.
Stefan
Is this one of those creepy "don't post if you criticize! You will only love!" posts? Weird.
Yeah, some poeple are like that.
They should keep the hell off any forum like this. Get a damn blog if you don't want people to disagree with you. Or better yet a diary.
Things don't have to get nasty, but some people cry foul whenever someone shows less than total enthusiasm for the topic.
By the way, this thread is nothing compared to the complaining about 6th edition Hero on the Hero Games forums. Now there's some top-quality complaining!:
Oooh, that's finally out?
Nice!
(or maybe not if nobody likes it...)
I love Hero. It's my 1st choice when we're not playing D&D, though my current group tried it and everyone hated it - we quit after two sessions (I think they were overwhelmed learning a new system and didn't give it a chance - I'm sure their first two sessions of D&D were overwhelming too).
I'll have to go out and get a copy and see what all the uproar is about.
But that's the joy of tabletop gaming. You get a rules system - and from there go on to mold and shape it to your own needs.
That's a double-edged joy.
Some might say it's a joy and it's a curse.
1. If you have to houserule everything, then you're definitely playing the wrong game. If you have to houserule most things, then you're probably playing the wrong game. If you have to houserule many things, then you might be playing the wrong game. If you have to houserule a few things, then you might be playing the right game. And if you have to houserule nothing at all, they you are definitely playing the right game.
2. If I have to houserule too much, then why did I buy the book in the first place? They have rules in the book, I have rules too, different rules - might as well just make a game out of my own rules.
3. If I have houserules, and you have houserules, and we meet at a gamestore and decide to start a game together, whose houseruled do we use? Now we have to sit down and fight it out - your rule, my rule, or the RAW. And we have to fight it out for each houserule we have.
4. I may think it's reasonable to make a houserule that, for example, humans are lame so they all get +2 to every ability score, save, attack roll, skill roll, and to their AC. Maybe to me this is a fair and practical rule, balanced by my own experience and playtesting. Then as the DM, I announce this houserule and my players hate it. Now I'm fighting my own players about a houserule - someone's not going to be happy. And yes, this can and does happen with many houserules, even those that are much more reasonable than this insane example.
All of that is why houseruling can be a curse.
Sure, it's nice that we can do it.
But I'd rather just buy a game that I don't need to houserule at all. Even better, I want that game to be the most popular game in the world, so the company that created it will make tons of supplements forever, and so I can find hundreds of willing players right in my neighborhood.
That would be gaming Nirvana. And no - not the shotgun-in-the-face kind of Nirvana...
Interestingly, despite the fact that you seem to be a little sore over reactions in other threads, even the people arguing with you are mostly saying that they have no problem with you personally and that they're sorry you're disappointed.
Man, people who disagree with you but don't tell you to suck a bag of ****s on an interwebs forum are RARE. I like these folks! :)
Me, I'm not so easy. If you don't want me thinking less of you, I'm going to need a cake. Stat.
Hehe, seriously, 'm sorry you're displeased with Pathfinder.
hogarth wrote:
By the way, this thread is nothing compared to the complaining about 6th edition Hero on the Hero Games forums. Now there's some top-quality complaining!:http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73221
I take it that you meant this post as humor, but this wasn't meant as a complaint thread. I can see that simply talking against the state of the game might be taken as a complaint in it's simplist definition... But that wasn't the intention.
Well, I guess "complaint" isn't the best word, but that thread has scads and scads of "Why I am disappointed in 6e HERO" comments (e.g. "Comeliness is not a stat any more!").
...
I too am disappointed in what we have seen with the cleric, but I have hope the game is saveable with some houserules. That I think will be the saving grace of Pathdfinder now. I am also disappointed the exact changes weren't discussed ahead of time, now to discuss it all seems so empty. They are forced to defend, and we can't win so it all empty words back and forth, with the anti-caster crowd just piping in to gloat from time to time.
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3. If I have houserules, and you have houserules, and we meet at a gamestore and decide to start a game together, whose houseruled do we use? Now we have to sit down and fight it out - your rule, my rule, or the RAW. And we have to fight it out for each houserule we have.
who ever is going to dungeon master
except when the players put conditions to these (eg. ok... we play... but we want all the spells used from 3.0, ok?) <- yes we have done this :P... yes... it ended quite ugly... but was because the dm always tried to save the villains for later......I too am disappointed in what we have seen with the cleric, but I have hope the game is saveable with some houserules. That I think will be the saving grace of Pathdfinder now. I am also disappointed the exact changes weren't discussed ahead of time, now to discuss it all seems so empty. They are forced to defend, and we can't win so it all empty words back and forth, with the anti-caster crowd just piping in to gloat from time to time.
don't you love when the magic-haters express pleasure for ruining others fun?
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I'm gonna be honest here I am really not understanding the entire casters have been ruined thing Ive been playing D&D for close to 7 years now (admittedly no where near as much as others) both as a player and a DM. In that time I have seen casters both Npc and player probably heading into the triple digits by this point and the number of times I have seen casting defensively used I can count on my hands. It just does not happen often because there are so many options to use (Quicken spell, five foot step, Withdraw heck even delaying so that the rest of the party can mash the guy threatening the caster) so it being 20% more difficult to cast your highest lvl spell In a situation that in my experience comes up once in a Blue moon doesn't seem that bad. Ones Mileage may vary of course.
Just a reflection... it is hard not to be disappointed with a (variable but sizeable) percentage of rules in a game which many people here have been playing for quite a bunch of years, most of us in 2+ iterations (3.0-3.5-PF pre-releases), some even longer if we count the several pre-3.0 D&D incarnations.
I don't know if your non-convention non-organized play groups are anything like mine, but, when examined to a new rules iteration, it comes clear that my table plays a fully eclectic D&D. We have incorporated most of the PF lately, we keep a bunch of 3.5 feats, one of my players definitely loves the Archivist class from Heroes of Horror and we frequently use the bloodline races option from UA.
Beyond that, we still use the old school AD&D 1st ed rules for polymorph effects (with 3.5 DCs, of course).
I will never like a D&D rules system 100%, our group(s) have played so many that there always thinks we like from previous editions (maybe, of course, it's a matter of us being used to them, or better matching our gaming style, not any "balance" or quality concern). And, in our own games, nothing prevents from carrying over.